Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Schnee117]

We'd need a new Kid Icarus game first in order for Dark Pit to return in it. Only another 20 years!

 

[Deleted member]

Well tbh I don't think that Kid Icarus is ever gonna get another game, especially if Sakurai is not gonna do it.

There's a difference between saying the series is unlikely to get a new title than saying a character from the series is unlikely to show up again in said series.

 

[PsychoJosh]

DK's somersault and Diddy's cartwheel are the same thing; they don't require a running start and are activated from a standstill in DKC. Yet they serve as their dash attacks in Smash.
Wario's Dash Attack can work as a dash attack just the same.

What are you talking about? They do require a running start.

The entire purpose of their rolls in the original games is to attack while running and make them defend from enemies while moving at high speed, which they need to be running in order to do. They can also use them to roll off platforms and jump in the air, but their main utility is as a running attack. Wario's shoulder rush is activated by pressing the B button, and he also is able to do it in the air, which is why it should be a B move. DK and diddy can't do their rolls in the air.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm curious as to who people think will be cut if choices like the last minute clones are being staunchly defended.

The only character that was defended here was Lucina, and in my case, it's less that I believe that she has no plausible chance of being cut (I certainly don't think that) as much as I don't believe that her being a clone is ground enough to say she is automatically the most likely FE character to get cut.

Mii's took a lot of development time, and they are easily the least popular characters in the game. Know anyone who mains Brawler, Gunner or Swordfighter? No, neither do I. These characters should be the first to be considered cut if they looking to spend less development time in brining veterans back. They are pretty useless filler characters honestly.

I say cut 2/3rds of them and keep the most popular of them so we still have a Mii character but without time spend bringing back three different bland movesets.

 

[Kirbeh]

The only character that was defended here was Lucina, and in my case, it's less that I believe that she has no plausible chance of being cut (I certainly don't think that) as much as I believe that she is relatively more "safer" than Roy and Corrin.

I don't know, while I certainly think all the FE reps still have a chance, it's pretty difficult to gauge. Corrin (at least the female version) is very popular, as is Roy who also has a good following within the Smash community already as a fan favorite veteran. It could just as easily be said that because we already Robin have repping Awakening, they could remove Lucina when it comes to cutting characters.

If popularity alone were that important, we would've gotten Chrom in Smash despite Sakurai's misgivings about him being just an in between of Marth/Ike.

All the current reps have their merits, and I think they should stay, but expecting some cuts seems like a likely case given how large the roster has gotten.

If by chance, come worst case scenario and they start completely from scratch with a much smaller roster of 30 or so characters. Who do you guys think would stay after essentially cutting the roster by half. (There's of course going to be some newcomers among those 30, so it really is cutting veterans by about half.)

 

[Deleted member]

What are you talking about? They do require a running start.

The entire purpose of their rolls in the original games is to attack while running and make them defend from enemies while moving at high speed, which they need to be running in order to do. They don't serve any purpose except as a running attack. Wario's shoulder rush is activated by pressing the B button, and he also is able to do it in the air, which is why it should be a B move. DK and diddy can't do their rolls in the air.

What are you talking about? They don't. Just popped in my old GBC copy of DKC and pressed the B Button. Both DK and Diddy did their attack without me having to be moving.

And since when has Wario ever been able to initiate a Dash Attack in the air?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don't know, while I certainly think all the FE reps still have a chance, it's pretty difficult to gauge. Corrin (at least the female version) is very popular, as is Roy who also has a good following within the Smash community already as a fan favorite veteran. It could just as easily be said that because we already Robin have repping Awakening, they could remove Lucina when it comes to cutting characters.

If popularity alone were that important, we would've gotten Chrom in Smash despite Sakurai's misgivings about him being just an in between of Marth/Ike.

All the current reps have their merits, and I think they should stay, but expecting some cuts seems like a likely case given how large the roster has gotten.

Fair enough.

 

[Kirbeh]

What are you talking about? They don't. Just popped in my old GBC copy of DKC and pressed the B Button. Both DK and Diddy did their attack without me having to be moving.

And since when has Wario ever been able to initiate a Dash Attack in the air?

The original Wario Land actually if memory serves. I'm gonna grab my 3DS and check real quick to verify though.

 

[Curious Villager]

What are you talking about? They don't. Just popped in my old GBC copy of DKC and pressed the B Button. Both DK and Diddy did their attack without me having to be moving.

And since when has Wario ever been able to initiate a Dash Attack in the air?

He might be referring to the DKC Returns games and DK64 which I think there DK needed a running start to roll, but I haven't played the games in a long time so I might have forgotten....

There is also Link's jump slash, if I recall, that never really required a running start to use either other than maybe Skyward Sword. And he uses that as his dash attack in Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

The original Wario Land actually if memory serves. I'm gonna grab my 3DS and check real quick to verify though.

IIRC, that was exclusive to Jet Wario, where he actually flew with a Dash Attack.

 

[Deleted member]

Shulk could also get cut I feel, he strikes me mostly as a 'one time addition' than most others on the roster. He could simply be replaced by Xenoblade's sequel's main character. Sakurai even stated that characters like him don't normally make the roster. I think that's saying something...

Well, if you say so...

 

[Kirbeh]

IIRC, that was exclusive to Jet Wario, where he actually flew with a Dash Attack.

Yup, just checked. Can't dash in the air. He can jump out of the dash though.

Overall, I don't see the issue in taking some creative liberty and making it his dash attack. It could still be made pretty close to the way it is in the Wario Land games. Make it strong, give it armor and allow Wario to jump out of it and run off stage like Kirby's Melee dash attack.

Aside from that, give him his Ground Pound as a DAIR, let him walk after a grab like DK, and change his F-Throw to match how he throws enemies in Wario Land. Most of his moveset remains unchanged, and he gets his major Wario Land moves covered.

A bit of a random addition, but I remembered the mini-games in 64DS, and I think Wario's uppercut at the beginning of Coincentration would be a good Up-Throw, if they ever changed it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Shulk and Wii Fit Trainer aren't going anywhere unless the roster gets gutted.

 

[Bowserlick]

Wii Fit Trainer better not go anywhere. One of the best and boldest additions. So bold.

 

[Deleted member]

Yup, just checked. Can't dash in the air. He can jump out of the dash though.

Overall, I don't see the issue in taking some creative liberty and making it his dash attack. It could still be made pretty close to the way it is in the Wario Land games. Make it strong, give it armor and allow Wario to jump out of it and run off stage like Kirby's Melee dash attack.

Aside from that, give him his Ground Pound as a DAIR, let him walk after a grab like DK, and change his F-Throw to match how he throws enemies in Wario Land. Most of his moveset remains unchanged, and he gets his major Wario Land moves covered.

Eh, as much as I'd like to see the Ground Pound incorporated, I don't think giving Wario a stall-and-fall D-Air is the best idea.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Wii Fit Trainer better not go anywhere. One of the best and boldest additions. So bold.

You spoke the truth like a real Smasher.

 

[Kirbeh]

Eh, as much as I'd like to see the Ground Pound incorporated, I don't think giving Wario a stall-and-fall D-Air is the best idea.

Yeah, I'd honestly prefer it as a custom Down Special, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway given that it's one of moves a lot of Wario Land fans want him to have alongside the charge.

 

[Bowserlick]

Wario can have the shoulder ram as a dash and his former dash could be his get-up ledge attack. It can have the same property where it sends the opponent behind Wario.

 

[PsychoJosh]

What are you talking about? They don't. Just popped in my old GBC copy of DKC and pressed the B Button. Both DK and Diddy did their attack without me having to be moving.

And since when has Wario ever been able to initiate a Dash Attack in the air?

Odd. I guess I remembered it differently, since I played the SNES versions, so I concede to you on that, but it's still mostly used as a running attack in the games anyways. There are rarely points where you get anything from doing it from a standstill.

Also, Wario is able to initiate a dash attack in the air with the jet pot. If he had a Wario Land moveset, that would be incorporated into it. So my point still stands that it should be his B.

 

[Opossum]

When it comes to cuts I think it depends on how severe the cuts will be. Brawl cut five veterans, while the base roster for Smash 4 cut an additional six. Roy, Lucas, Doctor Mario, Dark Pit, and to a lesser extent Lucina seem like potential cuts, alongside maybe the Mii Fighters depending on what happens with custom moves down the line (though I do think even if they were cut, we'd still get a Mii that uses things from the Mii games, as Miis are, I feel, to important to cut outright). Added to that, Cloud might be cut if rights become an issue, but I doubt that'll be the case. Mewtwo has been cut before, yes, but such a big deal was made of his return that I doubt he'd leave again.




Also as for how I'd change Wario, I'd just make his dash attack the Shoulder Charge and his Neutral Special the Shake move from Wario Land: Shake It. It'd keep the same functionality but with a different animation, and allow for another Wario Land reference.

 

[Kirbeh]

Odd. I remembered it differently, so I concede to you on that, but it's still mostly used as a running attack in the games anyways. There are rarely points where you get anything from doing it from a standstill.

Also, Wario is able to initiate a dash attack in the air with the jet pot. If he had a Wario Land moveset, that would be incorporated into it. So my point still stands that it should be his B.

Jet Wario functions a lot differently though. It could certainly work as a Special, but now you're arbitrarily combining two different moves to try and make the case for the first one. A case I honestly don't think needs to be made given that his charge has enough merit on its own, plus Jet Wario would be kind of unbalanced. Wario already has great air mobility, giving him a fairly fast gliding attack on top of that would be a bit much.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Jet Wario functions a lot differently though. It could certainly work as a Special, but now you're arbitrarily combining two different moves to try and make the case for the first one. A case I honestly don't think needs to be made given that his charge has enough merit on its own, plus Jet Wario would be kind of unbalanced. Wario already has great air mobility, giving him a fairly fast gliding attack on top of that would be a bit much.

You're talking about Wario staying mostly the same, just with this one move different. That's not what I'm talking about at all.

I'm talking about an entirely revamped Wario with new moves and a variable playstyle based on the WL games. His regular shoulder barge and his jet shoulder barge would not be the same. Jet shoulder barge would cover greater horizontal distance at the cost of doing reduced knockback and damage. He'd switch up his abilities with his down+B, which changes his hats. These would alter his weight, knockback strength, and his neutral B, just like they did in the original game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mewtwo has generally been low priority. If it gets cut again, I wouldn't be surprised. Jigglypuff is pretty clearly higher priority overall too. However, it's very clear both of them are highly popular. They honestly should just be base roster(as in not DLC) automatically by this point. Honestly, I feel like the 6 Pokemon we currently have should be shoe-ins automatically.

Not to say it couldn't change, of course. Never know what'll happen.

 

[Kirbeh]

You're talking about Wario staying mostly the same, just with this one move different. That's not what I'm talking about at all.

I'm talking about an entirely revamped Wario with new moves and a variable playstyle based on the WL games. His regular shoulder barge and his jet shoulder barge would not be the same. Jet shoulder barge would cover greater horizontal distance at the cost of doing reduced knockback and damage.

Ah, my bad then. If only Japan cared about Wario Land, then the possibility of as his own character would maybe stand a bit of a chance. I know a lot of people are opposed to the idea, but if he plays differently enough to provide a unique moveset, then I don't think having a second Wario should be an issue. We have and after all. Plus we have who is literally Mario wearing different clothes. Sure he's a clone, but we only got him because Sakurai wanted some Dr. Mario representation, so I think throwing the Wario Land fans a bone in a similar vein would be nice. While is very unlikely, I don't think he's a bad choice.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Honestly I don't want any of the roster to go anywhere and the only ones who feel at any risk are Dark Pit and Lucina. If you're just looking at gameplay and what they bring. Dark Pit is in more danger than Lucina though if you consider popularity and reception.

I'd maybe retool Palutena (and give her ONE, ACTUAL, SOLID moveset) and cut the Mii Fighters to save time on being able to add time to produce more real fighters.

But then you have people angry that Mii Fighters got cut and they can't make Discount Shrek to battle Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

Also as for how I'd change Wario, I'd just make his dash attack the Shoulder Charge and his Neutral Special the Shake move from Wario Land: Shake It. It'd keep the same functionality but with a different animation, and allow for another Wario Land reference.

Eh, I'd rather keep the Chomp.
The idea of chewing people up in a humiliating manner is a lot more fun than just grabbing them and shaking them like a ragdoll.

Besides, the only similarity in function between the two moves would be the whole "grab -> damaging maneuver -> toss". Other than that, Shake would just be a quick swipe to grab someone like Bowser's Flying Slam as opposed to Chomp being able to hold in place for a few seconds before canceling and Shake would be unable to dispose of oncoming projectiles or items you don't want your opponent to get. :V

 

[Kirbeh]

Shake would just be a quick swipe to grab someone like Bowser's Flying Slam as opposed to Chomp being able to hold in place for a few seconds before canceling and Shake would be unable to dispose of oncoming projectiles or items you don't want your opponent to get. :V

They could make Wario continue to awkwardly hold out his hand...yeah, I'd rather keep the Chomp as well. Maybe make the shake his pummel or a throw? Though honestly, while it was a big deal in Shake It!, I don't feel it's an integral part of his Wario Land arsenal overall, so I'm okay with omitting it.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I'd keep Wario's chomp, but make it his Side+B, and give it suction ability to make it more like his move in Wario World where he sucks loose coins into his mouth.

His B would slightly different depending on the hat he's wearing.

B (Regular and Bull Hat): Shoulder Rush
B (Eagle Hat): Air Shoulder Rush
B (Dragon Hat): Flamethrower

 

[Kirbeh]

I'd keep Wario's chomp, but make it his Side+B, and give it suction ability to make it more like his move in Wario World where he sucks loose coins into his mouth.

His B would slightly different depending on the hat he's wearing.

B (Regular and Bull Hat): Shoulder Rush
B (Eagle Hat): Air Shoulder Rush
B (Dragon Hat): Flamethrower

Seems like an interesting idea, but a bit more detail would be nice to see how his moveset would work overall.

And not as important, but I still feel like the Charge/Hats should be the Side B. Just feels more natural given that you're usually on the move when using the charge.

 

[Baskerville]

I'd rather have the Shake just replace his normal grab and pummel. And let him carry people around.
More then ever though I'd like to see some Wario World moves incorporated into his set. Like make his Dash Attack... his Dash Attack, then press Up B to do the Corkscrew Conk or his jab being the punch -> punch -> headbutt combo.

Eh, I'd rather keep the Chomp.
The idea of chewing people up in a humiliating manner is a lot more fun than just grabbing them and shaking them like a ragdoll.

Besides, the only similarity in function between the two moves would be the whole "grab -> damaging maneuver -> toss". Other than that, Shake would just be a quick swipe to grab someone like Bowser's Flying Slam as opposed to Chomp being able to hold in place for a few seconds before canceling and Shake would be unable to dispose of oncoming projectiles or items you don't want your opponent to get. :V

I'd like to have Chomp function the same way as P:M
As in, actually being able to throw people in the opposite direction.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Seems like an interesting idea, but a bit more detail would be nice to see how his moveset would work overall.

And not as important, but I still feel like the Charge/Hats should be the Side B. Just feels more natural given that you're usually on the move when using the charge.

Yeah, the only reason I'd keep the shoulder attacks as his neutral B would be to make it more like the original games. I've touched on this idea before. Overall, Wario Land Wario would be a very variable fighter, similar to Shulk with his Monado Arts.

Different hats would alter his weight and properties just like in the original game. With the eagle hat he can jump higher, the bull hat makes him heavier and hit harder, etc. They would also alter the properties of some of his moves. For example, his d-air would be the butt slam he has in various games, but with the bull hat equipped, it causes a miniature shockwave around him when his d-air lands on the ground.

As for his dash attack, it would be the super headrush attack from WL4 (where you hold L+any direction for him to charge through enemies and blocks with his head). Just like in WL4 you would be able to hold it indefinitely, and it would become more powerful after running a certain distance with it. It would also have armor.

 

[Kirbeh]

A completely unrelated subject, but I randomly remembered The King of Fighters XIII. That game has extra costume slots set aside for the player to customize with colors of their choice. I doubt it'd happen, but this is something I'd like to see in Smash as well.

 

[PsychoJosh]

A completely unrelated subject, but I randomly remembered The King of Fighters XIII. That game has extra costume slots set aside for the player to customize with colors of their choice. I doubt it'd happen, but this is something I'd like to see in Smash as well.

That should be a new type of unlockable, actually. Lots of different costumes for everyone.

 

[Kirbeh]

Yeah, the only reason I'd keep the shoulder attacks as his neutral B would be to make it more like the original games. I've touched on this idea before. Overall, Wario Land Wario would be a very variable fighter, similar to Shulk with his Monado Arts.

Different hats would alter his weight and properties just like in the original game. With the eagle hat he can jump higher, the bull hat makes him heavier and hit harder, etc. They would also alter the properties of some of his moves. For example, his d-air would be the butt slam he has in various games, but with the bull hat equipped, it causes a miniature shockwave around him when his d-air lands on the ground.

As for his dash attack, it would be the super headrush attack from WL4 (where you hold L+any direction for him to charge through enemies and blocks with his head). Just like in WL4 you would be able to hold it indefinitely, and it would become more powerful after running a certain distance with it. It would also have armor.

While I like the general idea, I feel like it starts going into the territory of being a bit too complex. The dash attack especially seems like a bit much.

I'd personally make him a semi-clone of sorts and do something like:

NB: Hyper Suction (A variant of Chomp based on Wario World)
SB: Dash Attack (Wario Charge)
UP: Corkscrew Conk (Also based on a move from Wario World)
DB: Smash Attack/Ground Pound

Grab allows him to walk around like in the Wario Land games, and some of his his throws and normals are changed as well.
F-Throw - Wario throws them forward using one arm like WL.
B-Throw - A spinning throw similar to Mario/Luigi to mimic one of his Wario World throws.
U-Throw - His uppercut from Coincentration. (Super Mario 64 DS)
D-Smash - Punches the ground, sending out a small shockwave hitting on both sides. (Earthshake Punch from Shake It!)
Etc, etc.

That should be a new type of unlockable, actually. Lots of different costumes for everyone.

Well, it's not really the same as proper alts like Wireframe Mac and whatnot. They're extra color options that by default are the same as that character's default costume. They're meant to add a bit of customization as you can edit these particular color slots to be whatever colors you want. I think something like this should be available from the start, and then they should make more actual alt costumes for players to unlock via Classic mode and what not.

 

[PsychoJosh]

While I like the general idea, I feel like it starts going into the territory of being a bit too complex. The dash attack especially seems like a bit much.

I'd personally make him a semi-clone of sorts and do something like:

NB: Hyper Suction (A variant of Chomp based on Wario World)
SB: Dash Attack (Wario Charge)
UP: Corkscrew Conk (Also based on a move from Wario World)
DB: Smash Attack/Ground Pound

Grab allows him to walk around like in the Wario Land games, and some of his his throws and normals are changed as well.
F-Throw - Wario throws them forward using one arm like WL.
B-Throw - A spinning throw similar to Mario/Luigi to mimic one of his Wario World throws.
U-Throw - His uppercut from Coincentration. (Super Mario 64 DS)
D-Smash - Punches the ground, sending out a small shockwave hitting on both sides. (Earthshake Punch from Shake It!)
Etc, etc.


Well, it's not really the same as proper alts like Wireframe Mac and whatnot. They're extra color options that by default are the same as that character's default costume. They're meant to add a bit of customization as you can edit these particular color slots to be whatever colors you want. I think something like this should be available from the start, and then they should make more actual alt costumes for players to unlock via Classic mode and what not.

I really don't think it's complex at all. Rather it makes Wario flexible so he can be played in a number of ways.

I would make up+B puffy Wario, except he would have the ability to clap his cheeks to send a huge puff of air upwards, which has a large windbox.

The dash attack isn't complicated, you just do it like normal and hold the button down for as long as you want it to be active. After a certain distance it gets increased killing power, and it's also armored.

Also, his up throw isn't the spinning piledriver from Wario World? What are you thinking?!

 

[Kirbeh]

I really don't think it's complex at all. Rather it makes Wario flexible so he can be played in a number of ways.

I would make up+B puffy Wario, except he would have the ability to clap his cheeks to send a huge puff of air upwards, which has a large windbox.

The dash attack isn't complicated, you just do it like normal and hold the button down for as long as you want it to be active. After a certain distance it gets increased killing power, and it's also armored.

Also, his up throw isn't the spinning piledriver from Wario World? What are you thinking?!

It's not complex for the player to perform, but including that many extra variables does make him much more complex when it comes to the development side of things. You already have him changing his stats similar to Shulk, but also added in additional properties to his moves that change on the fly depending on which hat you use via his specials. With Shulk there's at least a cool down period between uses of each Monado Art and the stat changes wear off.

Also the dash attack you describe and his actual Dash Attack are actually one in the same iirc. Wario Land 4 simply added the ability to keep it going.

As for Puffy Wario, that goes into an entirely separate area. Wario's Reactions would be neat to see, but I don't they'd fit as well into his moveset. Only having Puffy Wario would also feel a bit out of place imo.

The pile driver is what I'd typed down originally, but I really like that uppercut for some reason. Now I feel like they missed an opportunity in giving Wario his Dash Attack in 64 DS. That could've been how he broke Black Bricks instead of just punching, but overall I'm just glad his portrayal in that game falls more in line with classic Wario.

Expanding on my idea in order to include the power-ups though; The Bull Bot is already represented via his charge and ground pound, (and the GP becomes a normal move later in the series anyway). I think the Jet Pot could maybe work as his Final Smash instead, allowing Wario to use a faster charge attack both on the ground and in the air. He could repeatedly tackle opponents as he glides around the stage.

And since the Wario series doesn't have any items, I'd actually propose the Dragon Pot to finally give the series one. It'd be a bit similar to a mix between the Fire Flower and Super Spicy Curry, but it'd work more like in the games. Characters could still walk and crouch while it's equipped, and it'd shoot a continuous stream in a straight line for a little while before wearing off.

 

[PsychoJosh]

It's not complex for the player to perform, but including that many extra variables does make him much more complex when it comes to the development side of things. You already have him changing his stats similar to Shulk, but also added in additional properties to his moves that change on the fly depending on which hat you use via his specials. With Shulk there's at least a cool down period between uses of each Monado Art and the stat changes wear off.

Also the dash attack you describe and his actual Dash Attack are actually one in the same iirc. Wario Land 4 simply added the ability to keep it going.

As for Puffy Wario, that goes into an entirely separate area. Wario's Reactions would be neat to see, but I don't they'd fit as well into his moveset. Only having Puffy Wario would also feel a bit out of place imo.

The pile driver is what I'd typed down originally, but I really like that uppercut for some reason. Now I feel like they missed an opportunity in giving Wario his Dash Attack in 64 DS. That could've been how he broke Black Bricks instead of just punching, but overall I'm just glad his portrayal in that game falls more in line with classic Wario.

Expanding on my idea in order to include the power-ups though; The Bull Bot is already represented via his charge and ground pound, (and the GP becomes a normal move later in the series anyway). I think the Jet Pot could maybe work as his Final Smash instead, allowing Wario to use a faster charge attack both on the ground and in the air. He could repeatedly tackle opponents as he glides around the stage.

And since the Wario series doesn't have any items, I'd actually propose the Dragon Pot to finally give the series one. It'd be a bit similar to a mix between the Fire Flower and Super Spicy Curry, but it'd work more like in the games. Characters could still walk and crouch while it's equipped, and it'd shoot a continuous stream in a straight line for a little while before wearing off.

Well, yeah, this was part of my moveset consideration. Wario can switch hats, but if he gets hit too many times they can be knocked off him, and he stays hatless for a little while before he can put his regular hat back on.

The super headrush attack is not the same as his shoulder barge. Wario attacks with his head instead of his shoulder, and it needs enough time to start up. Also in WL4 it does not get obstructed by anything except green blocks or solid walls, which is reflected in it gaining armor.

If the Wario series got items I'd want it to be the donuts/apples that make Wario fat. Mainly because it'd be amusing to see fat versions of all the characters.

 

[Kirbeh]

If the Wario series got items I'd want it to be the donuts/apples that make Wario fat. Mainly because it'd be amusing to see fat versions of all the characters.

Oh my...I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. However, I think you brought up a great idea all the same. What if they made a Wario Land stage that included numerous hazards which would afflict characters with some of the reaction/status effects from the games. It'd certainly make for a unique stage at the very least. It'd definitely be banned though.

Making separate animations for every character would obviously be too much work, but I think they could make some compromises by representing them with effects they use elsewhere:

Frozen Wario - Characters will be frozen as if they were hit by a Freezie.

Hot Wario - Characters will behave as though they picked up Super Spicy Curry.

Tiny Wario - Characters will shrink as though hit by a Poison Mushroom or Lightning.

Invisible Wario - Characters will be turned invisible for a short period.

Crazy Wario - Reverses left/right and up/down movemnt controls. Similar to Palkia, but flipping controls instead of flipping the stage.

Zombie Wario - Characters will gain super armor, but become extremely slow and heavy. So think a more extreme metal box without the visual effect of actually becoming metal.

Bubble Wario - The only one that require more work. Characters would simply be immobilized by being trapped in a bubble. Mash buttons to break out. While trapped, you'll float around and can't be ko'd, but you'll take damage along with the bubble which will pop when it takes enough hits.

 

[Deleted member]

Shulk could also get cut I feel, he strikes me mostly as a 'one time addition' than most others on the roster. He could simply be replaced by Xenoblade's sequel's main character. Sakurai even stated that characters like him don't normally make the roster. I think that's saying something...

To make a more developed answer than this one I made yesterday since I was tired and was going to sleep:

By your logic of replacement, should have replaced like it was intended for Melee before Mother 3 was under a development hell, and by that same replacement logic, should have replaced both and in Brawl, before getting replaced by both and in Smash 4.

If Smash 5 adds a Xenoblade newcomer, they will be alongside , not in replacement.


About Sakurai's quote from Miiverse, yeah, it's still to debate on the true meaning of it, but it could also be a mistranslation from the English translator and meant something else, like how 's gameplay stands alongside the other newcomers'.


It would be really, really bad move to remove him anyway, since is easily one of the most well-received Smash 4 newcomers alongside and .

 

[Diddy Kong]

To make a more developed answer than this one I made yesterday since I was tired and was going to sleep:

By your logic of replacement, should have replaced like it was intended for Melee before Mother 3 was under a development hell, and by that same replacement logic, should have replaced both and in Brawl, before getting replaced by both and in Smash 4.

If Smash 5 adds a Xenoblade newcomer, they will be alongside , not in replacement.


About Sakurai's quote from Miiverse, yeah, it's still to debate on the true meaning of it, but it could also be a mistranslation from the English translator and meant something else, like how 's gameplay stands alongside the other newcomers'.


It would be really, really bad move to remove him anyway, since is easily one of the most well-received Smash 4 newcomers alongside and .

No I never said that the newest characters must replace the current ones. Just that with Shulk's case, I think that's more likely than keeping him around.

Fun fact: Lucas was revealed in Brawl far before Ness was. It's likely they decided to start development on Lucas far earlier.

Marth is the face of Fire Emblem, he became even more prominent in the series after Brawl. His return was always a sure thing.

But yeah I don't know **** about Xenoblade I'll give you that. The game was critically acclaimed however, so if Shulk returns am not too surpirsed, but if he's gone, am also not surprised.

Please don't put words in my mouth which I haven't spoken.