Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[WeirdChillFever]

If these Pokemon are simply "Gen 1 Pokemon," then Mario is JUST from Super Mario Bros.

This argument is ludicrous.

I know we need Daisy in there to balance out the heavy Super Mario Bros. bias

 

[N3ON]

There was never a chance that they were going to talk about Smash in something like that. It would completely defeat the point of it and completely draw attention away from what it is suppose to be about.

Literally said this like two days ago in this thread and people disagreed with me. What a difference hindsight makes.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Nothing super interesting at the Indies showcase, but I really do appreciate how many of them have local co-op. That's been rare for a while now, so it's great to see it becoming more prevalent!

 

[Morbi]

Nintendo: "We're going to have an Indie Showcase!"

*Literally showcases indies*

Fans: WHY DID YOU JUST SHOWCASE INDIE GAMES

To be fair, there has been a HEAVY indie bias within the hardcore Smash community. A lot of people wanted Shantae or Shovel Knight last time and, again, not much has changed in two years. Well, other than Shovel Knight more or less completely eclipsing her, I guess. Beyond that, with Undertale also coming to the Switch, and that game being massively popular and the name "Steve" getting thrown around here and there, I believe it is safe to say the vast majority of speculators somewhat expect an indie character. To that end, you never know what they may have shown that might be a potential pick.

I did not really expect anything myself, but I could see why many did. Even if it was a bit... Hopeful.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner of the last Blazing Sword poll was Jaffar. Nino, Lucius, and Ninian all fared pretty well and never fell behind.

Next would be the start of Fire Emblem Sacred Stones with at least two big Lords to choose between. Your choices are Ephraim, Eirkia, Iness, and Seth.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

 

[Inawordyes]

Shovel Knight has a bigger chance - however ironically small it is - than other indies because Nintendo published his game in Japan. They have shown to take an interest in the series to do that, and that puts him on a similar slope as Bayonetta, albeit to a heavily lesser degree. And that's aside from his popularity among the Smash fanbase (especially the vocal parts) and the number of requests that had been made for him the last time (including, assumedly, in the Ballot), plus the Amiibo - which to that point was basically the only non-Nintendo character Amiibo that wasn't Smash-related, if I'm remembering correctly, and although I'm sure I'm horribly wrong, that record still held true up until they announced the Solaire Amiibo in this month's Direct.

He's not necessarily likely, but don't knock Shovel Knight's chances. They're actually slightly better than you may think.

EDIT: Technically the Skylanders Bowser/DK came first, but those are Nintendo Characters. None of the other Skylanders characters got Amiibo. Plus the three DLC Campaign characters are getting their own Amiibo too. So Shovel Knight is actually pretty well-supported by Nintendo.

 

[Morbi]

I think it would've been pretty unfair to the indie studios to overshadow them with a Smash Bros. related thing. This is their chance to show what they have to offer.

That said I would've liked to see a release date on King of Cards as well as the Shovel Knight amiibos I've had preordered for a while now.

I sort of believe the opposite. Hypothetically, say they, ahead of time, stated that there would be a Smash announcement during the presentation. Would that "detract" from indies, I suppose. However, it would also put MUCH MORE exposure on the entire event which is EXACTLY what indies need, more than any other game, really. Most games survive on brand recognition or heavy marketing campaigns, indies have neither. However, this is Nintendo we are talking about, so it never should have been expected even if it would be highly beneficial for literally everyone.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Tecmo: "Fatal Frame is our most valuable IP"

https://mynintendonews.com/2018/03/...-franchise-is-one-of-their-most-valuable-ips/

Here to to hoping we get a decent amount of Fatal Frame content in Smash.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Shovel Knight has a bigger chance - however ironically small it is - than other indies because Nintendo published his game in Japan. They have shown to take an interest in the series to do that, and that puts him on a similar slope as Bayonetta, albeit to a heavily lesser degree. And that's aside from his popularity among the Smash fanbase (especially the vocal parts) and the number of requests that had been made for him the last time (including, assumedly, in the Ballot), plus the Amiibo - which to that point was basically the only non-Nintendo character Amiibo that wasn't Smash-related, if I'm remembering correctly, and although I'm sure I'm horribly wrong, that record still held true up until they announced the Solaire Amiibo in this month's Direct.

He's not necessarily likely, but don't knock Shovel Knight's chances. They're actually slightly better than you may think.

EDIT: Technically the Skylanders Bowser/DK came first, but those are Nintendo Characters. None of the other Skylanders characters got Amiibo. Plus the three DLC Campaign characters are getting their own Amiibo too. So Shovel Knight is actually pretty well-supported by Nintendo.

Not that I think it affects Shovel Knight’s chances at all, but there were other non-Nintendo amiibo in between Shovel Knight and Solaire. Last September they released 6 Monster Hunter Stories amiibo. Shovel Knight was still the first though, I just though it was worth mentioning.

 

[DraginHikari]

Literally said this like two days ago in this thread and people disagreed with me. What a difference hindsight makes.

Frankly I believe I've said it at least one other time within the last few days so I'm right there with you lol.

 

[Mechonis]

If Goku ever did make it into Smash, I'd be a bit torn... torn because while I don't think he should be in, you can be sure I'd enjoy seeing the reactions and meltdown happen from it occurring. Haha. I'm sure some others here would as well.

It was strange though. Last night I had a dream, where I stayed at this fancy hotel. They had a Switch in the room I was in, with the new Smash game before it was even out. I remember taking pictures of the games roster and such in my dream, planning on leaking it. I do remember Ridley was there. Ridley confirmed I guess.

This is what happens when you lurk around the boards, and read pages upon pages of Smash topics. Even without new information, you start going crazy and dreaming about Smash.

 

[Cosmic77]

It was strange though. Last night I had a dream, where I stayed at this fancy hotel. They had a Switch in the room I was in, with the new Smash game before it was even out. I remember taking pictures of the games roster and such in my dream, planning on leaking it. I do remember Ridley was there. Ridley confirmed I guess/

Wanna know something crazy? It wasn't a dream. The Nintendo ninjas pilfered the Switch and wiped your memory before you could leak anything.

 

[Louie G.]

Would you rather get more characters for pre-existing franchises (Mario, Pokémon, etc.), or get more characters who represent new franchises (Splatoon, ARMS, etc.)?

It's a tough choice, the pool for more characters from already represented franchises is much greater but I'm more interested to see what can be done with Inklings, Spring Man, Rhythm Heaven, retro characters and the like. I'll go with pre-existing franchises just because there's more to pull from but ultimately the most fun new additions will come from the new franchises I think, so I'm more interested in the latter but I'd like more from the former.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Alright guys, I decided to do something a bit... different.

None of us can truly speculate without any bias, "rules" are thrown around, words like recency, relevancy, retro, and other such R words are used with reckless abandon. We like to follow patterns and draw lines in the sand on this wild ride we call Smash speculation.



But math has no bias.

As you can see here, I've created a chart divvying up the newcomers throughout Smash history into two comprehensive categories, Old and New. I've done this on a game by game basis in order to properly average out the ratio between old and new 'comers. Brawl heavily favored old characters while Smash "for" favored new characters, with Melee being closer to even.

As you might have noticed, I did not calculate the original twelve or third parties as this would skew the results, as the OG12 are special cases, being from the first game in the series, and third parties are a more obvious special case for inclusion. The ultimate results of this test have come out to an almost even ratio (rounded) of Old and New with a nice 8/7.

Now I can already hear you saying "But you can't just leave out characters, you have to count everyone!"

Spoiler: I got you fam

Adding the original twelve to the equation, we can observe that the ratio of old to new characters is now an even split.

However, I still did not include third parties, but I'm nothing if not thorough, so here is a final calculation with every character.

The ratio returns to favoring old over new characters

Discuss, if you'd like.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

People talking about indies and forgetting some characters still sad of not being able to compete in smash.

 

[Morbi]

If Goku ever did make it into Smash, I'd be a bit torn... torn because while I don't think he should be in, you can be sure I'd enjoy seeing the reactions and meltdown happen from it occurring. Haha. I'm sure some others here would as well.

It was strange though. Last night I had a dream, where I stayed at this fancy hotel. They had a Switch in the room I was in, with the new Smash game before it was even out. I remember taking pictures of the games roster and such in my dream, planning on leaking it. I do remember Ridley was there. Ridley confirmed I guess.

This is what happens when you lurk around the boards, and read pages upon pages of Smash topics. Even without new information, you start going crazy and dreaming about Smash.

As far as I am concerned, Goku is more or less the only character that can make this game greater than the Smash 4.5 it is destined to be. The reactions would definitely be hilarious though. So many people believe it is impossible.

 

[Cosmic77]

Alright guys, I decided to do something a bit... different.

None of us can truly speculate without any bias, "rules" are thrown around, words like recency, relevancy, retro, and other such R words are used with reckless abandon. We like to follow patterns and draw lines in the sand on this wild ride we call Smash speculation.



But math has no bias.

As you can see here, I've created a chart divvying up the newcomers throughout Smash history into two comprehensive categories, Old and New. I've done this on a game by game basis in order to properly average out the ratio between old and new 'comers. Brawl heavily favored old characters while Smash "for" favoried new characters, with Melee being closer to even.

As you might have noticed, I did not calculate the original twelve or third parties as this would skew the results, as the OG12 are special cases, being from the first game in the series, and third parties are a more obvious special case for inclusion. The ultimate results of this test have come out to an almost even ratio (rounded) of Old and New with a nice 8/7.

Now I can already hear you saying "But you can't just leave out characters, you have to count everyone!"

Spoiler: I got you fam

Adding the original twelve to the equation, we can observe that the ratio of old to new characters is now an even split.

However, I still did not include third parties, but I'm nothing if not thorough, so here is a final calculation with every character.

The ratio returns to favoring old over new characters

Discuss, if you'd like.

That's pretty interesting to look at. However, I think we should also take into account relevancy, not just the character's age. Some older characters like Palutena probably wouldn't have been added if their franchise didn't have a new game released so close to the Smash game.

(BTW where's Wolf?)

 

[JamesDNaux]

That's pretty interesting to look at. However, I think we should also take into account relevancy, not just the character's age. Some older characters like Palutena probably wouldn't have been added if their franchise didn't have a new game released so close to the Smash game.

The point of this was to show the hard numbers. Going by "most recent appearance" rather than "date created" would heavily skew the results, particularly with the likes of Pokemon, who always appear in the most recent game.

I could go in and measure time of relevance, amount of promotion, etc, but I'm just one man and that's far too much effort.

(BTW where's Wolf?)

Between Meta Knight and Diddy

 

[Inawordyes]

Not that I think it affects Shovel Knight’s chances at all, but there were other non-Nintendo amiibo in between Shovel Knight and Solaire. Last September they released 6 Monster Hunter Stories amiibo. Shovel Knight was still the first though, I just though it was worth mentioning.

Which is completely fine and fair, I went looking for the list of Amiibo which is why I made the edit comment about the Skylanders ones but I didn't see any other than Shovel Knight from Nintendo's official website.

But yep, he was the first - and actually, looking at the Official Nintendo website, Shovel Knight (and Specter/Plague/King Knight that are forthcoming) are the only non-Smash third-party Amiibo to be recognized on Nintendo's own Amiibo list, which also means that those Amiibo were made in-house if I'm not misunderstanding (since Solaire and those MH ones aren't included).

 

[A Distant Demon]

Obviously, Phil Spencer doesn't have the final say, (this is probably PR at most) but it's nice to still see him supporting the bear and bird

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I just made a thread for the my ''thing'' I was asking before; Take a look if you will, I think it will bring new light for discussions =)
https://smashboards.com/threads/spe...-of-nintendo-recent-releases-and-more.453761/

 

[Morbi]

The point of this was to show the hard numbers. Going by "most recent appearance" rather than "date created" would heavily skew the results, particularly with the likes of Pokemon, who always appear in the most recent game.

I could go in and measure time of relevance, amount of promotion, etc, but I'm just one man and that's far too much effort.

Between Meta Knight and Diddy

The real question is whether the numbers even mean anything in the first place. I am leaning on, they do not. Perhaps to discern general trends and whatnot; however, I am fairly positive the criteria changes from game to game and there are always a host of exceptions.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Obviously, Phil Spencer doesn't have the final say, (this is probably PR at most) but it's nice to still see him supporting the bear and bird

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Phil is a cool ass dude so if Nintendo ever came to Microsoft to get Banjo I have a feeling he’d fight to make it happen. That’s a 1/1000000 chance of happening though, sadly.

 

[Morbi]

Phil is a cool *** dude so if Nintendo ever came to Microsoft to get Banjo I have a feeling he’d fight to make it happen. That’s a 1/1000000 chance of happening though, sadly.

I definitely trust Phil, he is definitely a genuine guy and honest to a fault. That being said, as if Nintendo would approach Microsoft.

 

[Onua]

I still dont understand why people say Fossil fighter has no chance when he has a better chance than a majority of characters, and him not being in smash is if anything really weird at this point. The only argument I've seen people use is that hes from a niche nintendo franchise but does that matter? All 3 games sold pretty well and Champions in particular is held with very high regard.
I just never understood how people can be like "Fossil Fighter has 0 chance" then say sora or sans or steve have a good chance lol.

 

[Morbi]

I still dont understand why people say Fossil fighter has no chance when he has a better chance than a majority of characters. The only argument I've seen people use is that hes from a niche nintendo franchise but does that matter? All 3 games sold pretty well and Champions in particular is held with very high regard.
I just never understood how people can be like "Fossil Fighter has 0 chance" then say sora or sans or steve have a good chance lol.

In the case of Sora, we already have a confirmed meeting/relationship with Square Enix. So, I would not put him in the same category, as unlikely as he may be.

In my experience, people deny characters that they have never heard of because they (often erroneously) believe, "if I never heard of the character, almost nobody has and therefore, this character does not make sense in an all-star fighter." I am definitely getting that vibe myself despite knowing full well that it is a fallacy.

 

[Nu~]

Wouldn’t sakurai have to go through Disney to get sora though?

That alone makes sora more than unlikely at this point tbh

 

[Deleted member]

plus the Amiibo - which to that point was basically the only non-Nintendo character Amiibo that wasn't Smash-related, if I'm remembering correctly, and although I'm sure I'm horribly wrong, that record still held true up until they announced the Solaire Amiibo in this month's Direct.

Not quite.
Before Solaire, there was a set of amiibo for Monster Hunter Stories.




EDIT:
Ah, someone already brought it up.

Not that I think it affects Shovel Knight’s chances at all, but there were other non-Nintendo amiibo in between Shovel Knight and Solaire. Last September they released 6 Monster Hunter Stories amiibo. Shovel Knight was still the first though, I just though it was worth mentioning.

 

[Hinata]

Wouldn’t sakurai have to go through Disney to get sora though?

That alone makes sora more than unlikely at this point tbh

Yeah, even though Kingdom Hearts is developed by Square, it's owned by Disney. So that's quite the hurdle.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah, even though Kingdom Hearts is developed by Square, it's owned by Disney. So that's quite the hurdle.

Normally, I doubt it would be a hurdle regardless of who owns it; however, Disney specifically, yeah. Probably not going to happen. I figured they owned the character, because, well, that is definitely how I would have set it up if I was Square.

 

[?????????????]

...Do you think Disney would really have such a big issue with letting a character in Smash Bros.?

Maybe I'm totally off-base, but it sounds like good, free advertising to me.

 

[Onua]

In the case of Sora, we already have a confirmed meeting/relationship with Square Enix. So, I would not put him in the same category, as unlikely as he may be.

In my experience, people deny characters that they have never heard of because they (often erroneously) believe, "if I never heard of the character, almost nobody has and therefore, this character does not make sense in an all-star fighter." I am definitely getting that vibe myself despite knowing full well that it is a fallacy.

Yeah this is how I feel. I've yet to see anyone give an actual reason as to why he wouldn't get in when in reality he has everything going for him. The only thing I hear people say is "niche" or "I havent heard of that" which is a really silly reason to say its not possible. I really do think Fossil Fighter has a very realistic chance of getting in this time.

I mean lets be real how many people knew who pit was before brawl? Or who Shulk was before 4? Its a silly argument to me.

 

[Morbi]

...Do you think Disney would really have such a big issue with letting a character in Smash Bros.?

Maybe I'm totally off-base, but it sounds like good, free advertising to me.

Personally, I do. I was in the Banjo thread talking about Microsoft and how I feel they understand the exposure and relevance of the IP is much more valuable than the chump change from licensing a character; however, Disney strong arms nearly everyone they work with because they can, more or less. Beyond that, Disney has demonstrated they do not understand gaming in the slightest with all of their failed ventures.

 

[Hinata]

...Do you think Disney would really have such a big issue with letting a character in Smash Bros.?

Maybe I'm totally off-base, but it sounds like good, free advertising to me.

Ain't Disney really stingy with all its properties? That's what I've heard, at least.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah this is how I feel. I've yet to see anyone give an actual reason as to why he wouldn't get in when in reality he has everything going for him. The only thing I hear people say is "niche" or "I havent heard of that" which is a really silly reason to say its not possible. I really do think Fossil Fighter has a very realistic chance of getting in this time.

I mean lets be real how many people knew who pit was before brawl? Or who Shulk was before 4? Its a silly argument to me.

My main issue with Fossil Fighter is, while I loved the games (minus Frontier's battle system because you had to rely on AI partners instead of using 3 of your own Vivosaurs), my thought process is "Why would I want to play as the main character when I could play as a fire wielding T-Rex?" lol

 

[Icedragonadam]

Alright so anything new?

 

[Morbi]

Alright so anything new?

Outside of the SourceGaming Ridley and Phil Spencer tweet? Nah. That is a lot considering, though.

 

[Onua]

Cause in the case of FF atm he has this going for him...
> 3 games since 2008, all 3 of which have sold well and garnered mostly positive reviews from people
> 2018/19 marks the 10th year anniversary of the series (2018 for japan and 2019 for usa)
> Completely unique due to pickaxe and summons or they could use the Trex(Tho i think having the fossil fighter themselves using summons as special moves works better)
> First party character and a nintendo owned IP
> Even tho the series gets little love, Nintendo still cares about it having made 3 games and having virtual console releases for it
> Series has a small but very devout fanbase (there are still active communities for champions even almost 8 years later)
> Smash feels kinda weird not having them atm considering its a series and not a one and done deal like a lot of first party IPs are
> We're getting around the time that a 4th game would come out, I could see them being added alongside the release of a new game since we get a new game ever 3-5 years
> Multiple games to work with and 100s of vivosaurs to work with as well as a ton of music and stage possibilities
> Characters already fit with the smash aesthetic.
> The unique systems in the game would work really well into a unique moveset that brings something new to the game
> Can go with Champions or Frontier designs and add another female rep since you can be a girl in those games.

Things not going for him
> Hes niche and kinda unknown to some people (This is literally all lol)
> You could say he hasnt had a new game in a few years but thats really not a big deal since hes still had a game in recent years lol (Frontier coming out around the time smash 4 did)

So uh yeah lol a lot going for him. And like I said earlier they could go with either the Fossil Fighter kid or go with the Trex lol, either would work

 

[Ura]

Alright guys, I decided to do something a bit... different.

None of us can truly speculate without any bias, "rules" are thrown around, words like recency, relevancy, retro, and other such R words are used with reckless abandon. We like to follow patterns and draw lines in the sand on this wild ride we call Smash speculation.



But math has no bias.

As you can see here, I've created a chart divvying up the newcomers throughout Smash history into two comprehensive categories, Old and New. I've done this on a game by game basis in order to properly average out the ratio between old and new 'comers. Brawl heavily favored old characters while Smash "for" favored new characters, with Melee being closer to even.

As you might have noticed, I did not calculate the original twelve or third parties as this would skew the results, as the OG12 are special cases, being from the first game in the series, and third parties are a more obvious special case for inclusion. The ultimate results of this test have come out to an almost even ratio (rounded) of Old and New with a nice 8/7.

Now I can already hear you saying "But you can't just leave out characters, you have to count everyone!"

Spoiler: I got you fam

Adding the original twelve to the equation, we can observe that the ratio of old to new characters is now an even split.

However, I still did not include third parties, but I'm nothing if not thorough, so here is a final calculation with every character.

The ratio returns to favoring old over new characters

Discuss, if you'd like.

I hope Smash Switch will follow Brawl's lead of adding more "older" characters than "newer" ones.

Alright so anything new?

Not until E3 unfortunately.

 

[A Distant Demon]

...Do you think Disney would really have such a big issue with letting a character in Smash Bros.?

Maybe I'm totally off-base, but it sounds like good, free advertising to me.

Disney has a problem with Sora getting used in their own games, and stuff from square.

Let alone Nintendo. . .