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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Paperchampion23

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God damn this is just.

Such a weird leak.

A leak of this scope should be definitively disproved at this point but it just...isn't.
Tells people something doesn't it? People can try and try but unless the leaker comes out and explicitly proves he's a mastermind, it can't be disproven. We've given it enough scrutiny and may have some oddities but after nearly 48 hours, not one person has been able to prove it fake. Insiders claim fake but show no proof or viable explanation. ESRB was the exact same.
 

FixedFun

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OK, here's a version without the hotdog, I suppose The Conductor is looking to the camera. The art in the leak has some slightly differences to the official renders.

If it fake, the leaker knows his RH stuff.
 

Pizzanigs

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Hey so, we still talking about The Grinch Leak?

Cuz further inspection of the blurry image shows a LOT of inconsistencies with the entire mural as a whole. Jigglypuff being in the wrong place. Shadow covering up the Miis's area. Olimar going from tactfully to the right of Snake to in the foreground infront of Snake's knee in a move that looks mad photoshopped.
You do release with each new official banner the characters are moved around right?
 

Luigi The President

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Tells people something doesn't it? People can try and try but unless the leaker comes out and explicitly proves he's a mastermind, it can't be disproven. We've given it enough scrutiny and may have some oddities but after nearly 48 hours, not one person has been able to prove it fake. Insiders claim fake but show no proof or viable explanation. ESRB was the exact same.
Thought this about Sassy Geno too
Be aware a snipe can come at any moment
 

Opelucid

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I'm under the impression that it's fake, I'd love for it to be real but I feel like it's way too good to be true.
 

ZephyrZ

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I don't think a lot of people are taking that fact that the background appears to be reverse-engineered from the ground up nearly as seriously as they should be. Some of the changes are just too significant to simply brush under the rug as a result of blurriness.

There has to be a solid explanation for that before I can be convinced over to Team Real again.
 

Paperchampion23

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In all honesty, this thing has scary parallels to ESRB. Like, nearly everything that's coming to light about it is lining up with what happened back then. It's a little spooky.

Only reason I think it's fake is because I personally assume all leaks are most likely fake until they're real to avoid disappointment. That, and it's just so wishlisty. It just feels fanmade, and I'm not saying that disproves it, but it does make it hard for me personally to believe it. It feels like it was made by someone who knows a bunch of Smash trivia and what's been popular in the community for the past decade or so.
I would 100% have agreed with you until we got K. Rool, Ridley, Simon, Chrom, Dark Samus, and Isabelle, whom all would have made people scream fake if they were leaked initially.

I was skeptical until a certain point, but then realizing that and just how this leak came about....I can't be against it anymore.
 

Luigi The President

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I don't think a lot of people are taking that fact that the background appears to be reverse-engineered from the ground up nearly as seriously as they should be. Some of the changes are just too significant to simply brush under the rug as a result of blurriness.

There has to be a solid explanation for that before I can be convinced over to Team Real again.
Can you catch me up? Where is this from?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
After spectating you guys going at it for the past two days or so, I decided to join the conversation (I'm new to SB -- hey).

I got in contact with someone claiming to be the original leaker, and when I asked him if he was aware of what is happening on Smashboards, he said the following: "f**k smashboards :lol: lol"

As you can see, this is definitely him. You can thank me for proving the leak true.

(By the way this is a joke, please don't take it seriously. Thanks.)
Don't explain the joke. Be misunderstood! ****post! Show this place they're your *****!
Literally Smashburb, my dude.
Who's Smashburb and what do you mean? Is he THE Burb Burb ?
 

JoyStar

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OK, here's a version without the hotdog, I suppose The Conductor is looking to the camera. The art in the leak has some slightly differences to the official renders.

If it fake, the leaker knows his RH stuff.
You know, you latched me so much onto that hot dog headcanon that if this leak is real I'll be disappointed the Chorus Kids have no hot dog-related attacks. What have you done? XD
 

Potato_

Smash Lord
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Holy ****, this type of behavior is inexcusable.

https://www.resetera.com/posts/14206354/

Lots of bad language in there.
You ever read something and literally not have the words to express how stupid it is?

Cause I just did. I'm legit speechless. Just, wow.

Also from what I can tell the Vergeben comments are just him sticking to his story. He's not confirming or denying it, just saying that it conflicts with the information he was given.

wouldn't be surprised if he ends up still being right somehow and incineroar is in
 

RandomAce

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Incineroar was in one of the worst situations possible of being considered the last possible unqiue newcomer, leaving many fan bases in the dust. Incineroar essentially became this game’s “Dark Pit”.

Like if Incineroar was confirmed to be playable along with the other leaked characters, would a lot of people even care anymore? Maybe those who supported someone like Lycanroc (ala me) or Decidueye would, but the top 5 most requested characters for Ultimate (Ridley, King K. Rool, Geno, Isaac, Banjo & Kazooie) would ALL be in this game alongside him, with even a couple more to boot.

After seeing Incineroar and Ken getting shoved as the only ones left for the past 2 months, people got annoyed as hell. All speculation was about Ken and Incineroar and maybe Geno and that was it. This leak was a breath of fresh air to a lot of people as now more popular characters have a chance to show up. I’m a little sad that it was leaked, but if Sakurai was going to go out with a banger like this, you better believe that most of the Incineroar hate would’ve dissipated.

But notheless, I still agree. I think the amount of Incineroar spitting is what I feared the most for their supporters. It doesn’t help that they’ve been brought up as the de facto only to be crushed in an instant like this. I’m happy that it seems to have disappated a bit, but it’s still disappointing to see that a mod had to involve stopping this sort of stuff.

...

Alright this seems a bit opposite of what I’ve said before, just let me do something, once. I told y’all that a bombshell could’ve happened, and that we got 7 more characters, which is what I predicted was the number (even though not the charcaters I expected). Oh god, I’m so happy that after months of the same thing, this sort of thing can possibly happen now. I’ve said a lot about of Isaac, and Rhythm Heaven could’ve joined the fight and now it looks like it can actually become a reality. This was a stress reliever honestly.

A little sad that Elma looks like she isn’t here though. ****! Uuuuuuggggggghhhhhh, I really wanted her so badly! I still hope that she has a chance, Base or DLC. There was a lot going for her, and I still think that she can pop up. Embarrass

Anyways, that it for me. I needed this really, I’m just happy that we’re going to be able to play this game soon. A shame some characters still may not be in, but I still hope for the best in the future!

Ace out!
 

C-G

Smash Journeyman
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You do release with each new official banner the characters are moved around right?
Moved. Not displaced. The mural has remained intact up until now, but now we're moving characters around across significant chunks of mural to where they weren't before, and some for inexplicable reasons like the Olimar bit.
 

TreeBranch

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OK, here's a version without the hotdog, I suppose The Conductor is looking to the camera. The art in the leak has some slightly differences to the official renders.

If it fake, the leaker knows his RH stuff.
Looks good! Their pose is really unique, and it's just all this attention to detail overall that makes me believe in the leak
 
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Like I've said before the leaker would have to have known some deep and obscure details of Isaac and Rythm Heaven characters to pull this off, not to mention Mach Rider. Then you see new details on already existing characters on the mural that moved like Roy and Greninja.
 

ChocolatGelgato

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so the tl;dr on insiders:

Most disagree: Every single one of them sticks by inceneroar being in the game no matter what
Spawn wave: Teased sora announcement on VGAs at probably game release (Unknown if final newcomer or first DLC character?)

Notably some seem to imply characters not called inceneroar are there as well, but the leak still is faked.

Spawn wave has a really good track record

as a bonus...

Papagenos source: has heard of all banner characters, including incenenroar, can 100% confirm banjo (This is a bonus because while papagenos is a nice person he may be misled)

there are a few outcomes:

1. Leak is fake, Inceneroar and probably others + sora end off the roster. Banjo may be included as well but not as solid as inceneroar and sora.
2. Leak is real, nintendo sent inceneroar confirmations to everyone to hide the final roster and prevent leaks.
 

IcyBrawler

Smash Apprentice
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I can't wait for someone to post the Chorus Kids mock-up render again and be like "is this real!? WELL PACK IT UP BOYS" and then someone is like "nah. it's not real" and then repeat.
 

drag0nscythe

Smash Master
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I think i am going to go on smashfaqs and tell them all that the box is the only truth. See what happens.

:ultkingdedede:
 

Luigi The President

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Like I've said before the leaker would have to have known some deep and obscure details of Isaac and Rythm Heaven characters to pull this off, not to mention Mach Rider. Then you see new details on already existing characters on the mural that moved like Roy and Greninja.
Not sure the Conductor existing and Isaac summoning a Djinn is too obscure and deep
 

PsySmasher

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They're gonna turn on him like the Hyenas turned on Scar.
I'm a simple man. I see a clever Disney reference, I like the post.

I do not doubt them, I think they are credible.

only backpedaling (if youd call this that) is saying clearly that i trust this source they trust their microsoft source.

their source knew for sure about banjo, had also HEARD the banner characters PLUS incineroar but had no proof.

now the microsoft source thinks the banner leak is real but is confused about incineroar being missing.

I'm beleiving my source but theirs a chain of sources here AND something odd is up with incineroar soooo im just saying there might be some odd gematsu like situation where leak bait was given out (possibly incineroar) OR worst case for the banner nintendo made leak bait IMAGES to get leakers? seems unlikely to me though so i do believe the most likely thing is the banner is real BUT thats what im going off of and it does seem something odd is going on internally here specifically with incineroar.

I do not think the banner is a typical fake leak if it turned out to not be true, it would be at worst a gematsu situation where it IS leaked info but nintendo is doing some very strange things internally to prevent leakers this time so who knows.

my sources microsoft source was SURE of banjo, i have seen no proof but they were sure of banjo for a long time my source WAS thinking banjo could be DLC before the banner came out as my source was thinking basically "box theory maybe a SE rep" like everyone else for a while there but knew banjo was definitely coming at some point.
Alright. This is pretty interesting.

Incineroar in a Gematsu situation seems more likely than I thought, considering almost everyone's sources is saying Incineroar. It inclines me to believe either that he's in the base (but not on the artwork), cut for DLC, or cut period. Kind of ironic since the 2 characters that didn't make it in from the Gematsu leak (Chrom and Chorus Kids) WILL be in Ultimate if the leak is true.

However, there being a chain of sources for information makes it more likely for incorrect information / leak bait to be carried. I'm not doubting your trust in your sources or your sources' trust in each other. But I'm less confident in information passed through multiple people (kind of like a game of telephone). Does it really make these sources more or less credible... No, but respectfully, I'll take all of this with the slightest grain of salt.

All in all, this doesn't make the overall leak more or less credible, but's it's nice to get a greater context on why you believe this is a true leak.
 
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ZephyrZ

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Can you catch me up? Where is this from?
Vaanrose did a breakdown of it the other day.



Alright, these are just the points I think will be most obvious to the layman's eyes. I see significantly more issues than just these.

A.) The infamous smear is not on the official image.

B.) A small, dark cloud that is entirely absent from the leaked image.

C.) The shape of the water curves upward on the leaked image but continues straight on the official. Plus I'm not sure I see any evidence of the castle in the leaked image.

D.) This entire cloud on the official image seems to be missing and replaced with just blue sky on the leaked image.

E.) The shape of the cloud is different, with a clean diagonal cut on the leaked image but a rounder shape on the official one.

F.) A lightning bolt that appears to be missing entirely from the leaked image.

G.) Several dark structures are missing entirely from the leaked image.

H.) The shape of the crystals is clearly different. The official image has one large chunk in this area, slanted to the left. The leaked image has two chunks with a piece missing in the center and both pieces missing that leftward slant.






First of all, understand these images are perspective corrected and this does introduce new artifacts.

That said, this is a much better comparison than the earlier one I posted.

Like @Raykz was saying, notice in quadrant 3, the three bright red waterfalls, which become only two bright red waterfalls in the leak. The color contrast is immense, and the two that are there are very clear even after all the color and detail loss. But the third is completely missing.

On the left, right where the first vertical black line is, the waterfall just ends and the castle structure that should be there isn't. This isn't a smudge changing the shape of a cloud, it's an entire element of the stage that's not there at all.
 

doomedtacox

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If Incineroar is leaker bait by Nintendo, it hasn’t been very effective... All these leakers and insiders are, well, still leaking.
That's not what we mean by leaker bait. We mean that the purpose of Incineroar is so that all the insiders "think" Incineroar is in the game, so any leak not involving him is automatically met with some skepticism, and the suprise is upheld. Not that he's used just to catch and punish leakers.
 

gloop898

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bQWQVUPnl4

Honestly the changes in the background are the biggest points to the whole thing being fake. Omni makes some great points here and clearly shows the discrepancies. To me this kills it, the only reason these changes exist is because someone had to guess and make the background. Whoever made this leak put in some crazy effort. It's definitely one of the craziest leaks ever, but to me its dead.
 

VGPhaze

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One of the biggest mysteries for me was always "what did Sakurai buy the model of the gun for?"

Mach Rider has almost an exact replica of the gun that Sakurai bought "for research on his next project" before it was revealed his next project was smash.

We're never going to know before a direct hits. This leak is so detailed and makes every rumor we've heard fit together perfectly like a puzzle, but also makes zero sense at the exact same time. It's a wild one.
 

-crump-

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People keep going on about “no one has proved it fake yet”, but the thing is, HOW exactly would one even go about proving anything at this point? People found discrepancies in the art, but that’s not enough, apparently. People with intell are knocking it down left and right, but they’re all just in the wrong, apparently. We know the Grinch render isn’t actually new, but that doesn’t effect the Smash thing at all, apparently.

We can’t “prove it wrong” because it’s a well done fan creation with a lot of effort put into faking it. You can’t hold it up to a candle or dunk it under water to look for clues; that’s not how this works. How do you want your proof? What would you except as proof, other than Sakurai himself saying “nah man that’s some BS”? WOULD YOU EVEN TAKE THAT AS PROOF? OR IS HE JUST A PUPPET OF OUR MASTER LEAKER’S GRAND DESIGN???


I want this to be real. I ****ing HATE Incineroar. I don’t want him in the game at all. But this whole thing is becoming irritating, because no one will listen to anyone, and the hype is grown so big that it’s bound to blow up in everyone’s face.
 
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KMDP

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They're gonna turn on him like the Hyenas turned on Scar.
Long live the king.
Guys are you forgetting the supposed "Missing character" in the banner? It could be Incineroar for all we know.
Of course Incineroar isn't on the banner.

He's InCENAroar, and you can't see him (kill me).
Incineroar being leaker bait is highly unlikely as so many people knew about him. What's the point of trying to single someone out if there are so many people that could have done it?
If they give the information to one (group of) guy(s), they'd know that the leaker was that guy(/someone in that group), the ResetERA group + GameXplain + Vergeben all knowing about Incineroar doesn't preclude them all getting that info from the same guy(/group of guys).
 
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TheCJBrine

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Hey so, we still talking about The Grinch Leak?

Cuz further inspection of the blurry image shows a LOT of inconsistencies with the entire mural as a whole. Jigglypuff being in the wrong place. Shadow covering up the Miis's area. Olimar going from tactfully to the right of Snake to in the foreground infront of Snake's knee in a move that looks mad photoshopped.
I dunno, Mii Gunner was originally where Simon Belmont is and they moved her over to the right, so why can't the move Olimar and his Pikmin and let Isaac and his Djinn take that spot? Same with other characters.
 
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