Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

I still don’t understand how Dark Samus was highly requested, Chrom I get but where did her popularity come from?

Not angry at her inclusion, just curious.

I voted for her in ballot. Granted. I don't know if they counted said vote since I voted for a lot of characters and I'm sure everyone did.

I thought her assist trophy had a really cool vibe/moveset potential. It's a bummer she doesn't really have it as a playable character though.

 

[Diem]

This does put a smile on my face.. It really does honestly. It's really cool to know these facts!

Yeah, a lot of people just think "Oh, it's the dark version of Samus, of course that makes sense," since Dark Pit and Dark Link exist in some form or another, without realizing how Dark Samus actually fits into the grand scheme of things. But even after the evidence from the E3 showing, I still didn't consider her to be all that likely, because of all those reasons. It just didn't fit with everything else.

I forgot to add the most important fact:

• She's from Metroid. And when the only newcomer Metroid got across three whole games was just a lame version of Samus, despite Dark Samus being introduced around the same time, you know there's something amiss. And after Ridley, I figured that any chance of another Metroid character was dead in the water.

Hmmmm....
HMMMMMMMM.....



Wait I was sure Sakurai said that Both Chrom and Dark Samus were heavily requested which is why they appeared as Echoes Fighters.

Oh yeah, Sakurai did say that, but all that statement does is confuse the hell out of me.

If Dark Samus was hugely requested, where were all those requests? Because I haven't seen them. 99% of Metroid fans were on the Ridley bandwagon for over a decade, not caring for Dark Samus. And even now, not that many people are getting hype over Dark Samus, because they're either unfamiliar with the character or Metroid as a whole. Compared to Fire Emblem's larger and more prominent fanbase, which also extends to Japan, Chrom was definitely requested, but Dark Samus, not so much.

I actually voted for Dark Samus on the ballot, being one of my two most-wanted characters, but also because Ridley was shot down hard, so I figured if Metroid was to have any chance of a newcomer, Dark Samus would be it. Some Metroid fans have proposed Sylux, but he doesn't make sense yet for a few reasons. I mentioned in my reasoning that the Assist Trophy was already there, so there was proof that she'd work as a good and unique character in Smash. I didn't actually expect it to come true, because I figured I was just one out of maybe... a dozen people who would think to vote for Dark Samus for any reason.

So unless there's thousands of people who silently voted for Dark Samus that I've never encountered, I don't know how it happened. Sakurai said in an interview that Chrom was added to cater to the Japanese audience, and Dark Samus was added to cater to the western audience, but again, Metroid Prime 2 and 3 didn't sell more than 2 million units each, and how many of those players would pick Dark Samus as their big request?

I'd love to know what the full reasoning was. How did Ridley and Dark Samus get in with such a narrow door of entry? How many people actually voted for her on the ballot? Why put so much effort into Dark Samus's model and animations, too? We may never know, but that doesn't change how much I appreciate it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hey, you ain't as bad as that pillock who was touting their predictions as total fact and putting down anybody who had other predictions or called them out on their snobbiness.

Heh thanks I guess. That makes me much more confident for someone to say that.

 

[osby]

Can I turn this into a forum game (if it counts as a game)? Who do you think is the biggest underdog newcomer in every Smash game (64,Melee,Brawl,For,For DLC and Ultimate until now)?

 

[Luigi The President]

You're right, I get kinda moody early in the morning.
It's right around this time I start remembering everything that makes me angry and depressed. Every night. It sucks.

Hey man. Try to get some therapy if you can. It's a first step. If you ever need to talk my PM's are always open.

This lad loves you.

 

[Shroob]

Why do I get the feeling that when the initial Direct date is dropped, there'll be an extreme surge of hype, quickly filled with fear and paranoia and this place will become unbearable?


"Oh god Vergeben's characters are all we're getting..."

"Oh god the box...."

"What if X doesn't make it...."

"Guys, I'm scared for X's chance...."

"We're not getting X, are we?"



We're rushing towards the apocalypse headlong.

 

[Idon]

I still don’t understand how Dark Samus was highly requested, Chrom I get but where did her popularity come from?

Not angry at her inclusion, just curious.

She's the main villain of 2/3s of the most popular "modern" Metroid entries.
Outside the Metroid bubble, she might be a no-name, but for Metroid Prime fans, she's so cool and unique.

And then they made her an echo. ugh.

 

[Jetsurge]

I still don’t understand how Dark Samus was highly requested, Chrom I get but where did her popularity come from?

Not angry at her inclusion, just curious.

People were mad Dark Pit was in while Dark Samus was an assist.

She's the main villain of 2/3s of the most popular "modern" Metroid entries.
Outside the Metroid bubble, she might be a no-name, but for Metroid Prime fans, she's so cool and unique.

And then they made her an echo. ugh.

You can't complain we got Ridley. If Dixie is in she'll probably also get the Dark Samus treatment.

 

[NineS]

You're right, I get kinda moody early in the morning.
It's right around this time I start remembering everything that makes me angry and depressed. Every night. It sucks.

Why do I get the feeling that when the initial Direct date is dropped, there'll be an extreme surge of hype, quickly filled with fear and paranoia and this place will become unbearable?


"Oh god Vergeben's characters are all we're getting..."

"Oh god the box...."

"What if X doesn't make it...."

"Guys, I'm scared for X's chance...."

"We're not getting X, are we?"



We're rushing towards the apocalypse headlong.

People first will be hyped up that we've finally gotten news, but then everyone stops to think for a moment...

And suddenly everyone loses it for the wrong reasons, sink into depression for the day thinking their character might end up like Lyn and Ashley.

And then you'll get the people denying Vergeben was right and we're still getting Waluigi.

 

[osby]

Yeah, a lot of people just think "Oh, it's the dark version of Samus, of course that makes sense," since Dark Pit and Dark Link exist in some form or another, without realizing how Dark Samus actually fits into the grand scheme of things. But even after the evidence from the E3 showing, I still didn't consider her to be all that likely, because of all those reasons. It just didn't fit with everything else.

I forgot to add the most important fact:

• She's from Metroid. And when the only newcomer Metroid got across three whole games was just a lame version of Samus, despite Dark Samus being introduced around the same time, you know there's something amiss. And after Ridley, I figured that any chance of another Metroid character was dead in the water.

Oh yeah, Sakurai did say that, but all that statement does is confuse the hell out of me.

If Dark Samus was hugely requested, where were all those requests? Because I haven't seen them. 99% of Metroid fans were on the Ridley bandwagon for over a decade, not caring for Dark Samus. And even now, not that many people are getting hype over Dark Samus, because they're either unfamiliar with the character or Metroid as a whole. Compared to Fire Emblem's larger and more prominent fanbase, which also extends to Japan, Chrom was definitely requested, but Dark Samus, not so much.

I actually voted for Dark Samus on the ballot, being one of my two most-wanted characters, but also because Ridley was shot down hard, so I figured if Metroid was to have any chance of a newcomer, Dark Samus would be it. Some Metroid fans have proposed Sylux, but he doesn't make sense yet for a few reasons. I mentioned in my reasoning that the Assist Trophy was already there, so there was proof that she'd work as a good and unique character in Smash. I didn't actually expect it to come true, because I figured I was just one out of maybe... a dozen people who would think to vote for Dark Samus for any reason.

So unless there's thousands of people who silently voted for Dark Samus that I've never encountered, I don't know how it happened. Sakurai said in an interview that Chrom was added to cater to the Japanese audience, and Dark Samus was added to cater to the western audience, but again, Metroid Prime 2 and 3 didn't sell more than 2 million units each, and how many of those players would pick Dark Samus as their big request?

I'd love to know what the full reasoning was. How did Ridley and Dark Samus get in with such a narrow door of entry? How many people actually voted for her on the ballot? Why put so much effort into Dark Samus's model and animations, too? We may never know, but that doesn't change how much I appreciate it.

There wasn't even 2 million votes in the ballot, it's not that hard for "less important" characters to score high.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

Why do I get the feeling that when the initial Direct date is dropped, there'll be an extreme surge of hype, quickly filled with fear and paranoia and this place will become unbearable?


"Oh god Vergeben's characters are all we're getting..."

"Oh god the box...."

"What if X doesn't make it...."

"Guys, I'm scared for X's chance...."

"We're not getting X, are we?"



We're rushing towards the apocalypse headlong.

Honestly..those going to be my very thoughts once the direct date reveals. I know there is more to look forward to besides characters but still..it’s that thought in the back of your head wondering if your most wanted is in or not lol

 

[Onua]

If I were to add ken this is what Id do

Up B : Multhit with fire effects. Imagine an SRK version of roys up b. Goes further horizontally than Ryus.
Side B : Multhit and goes far less distance than Ryus. Hits either once, twice or three times depending on if you normal ver is, hold it or just special input it. Also has A LOT less end lag than Ryu so you can combo out of it
neutral b : red fire ball is gone. hadouken is weaker and slower than ryus and smaller
down b : works p much the same but ken does his SF4 focus attack kick animation rather than ryus punch
Fsmash : his far HK from the games rather than a donkey kick
Heavy Ftilt : his special kicks from the game. This one is slightly slower and does a lil more shield damage
light Ftilt : his special kick from the game. Far better than ryus ftilt and faster
Jab : does his special combo from SF4. Only hits twice rather than three times
Rolls : rather than back dashing or forward dashing Ken does his Alpha rolls
Final Smash far : Ken does his spin kick ultra from SF4. Up close he does his fire srk from SF4 and alpha
intro : Similar to Ryu but he rolls his shoulder and says "im ready for ya bring it on!" if in 4 player or more he just walks in
win animation 1 : does his animation from SF4 where he kicks the screen a few times
Win animation 2 : does his win animation from SFV
Win animation 3 : Stands there as his wife runs and hugs him like his ending in SF2
Taunt 1 : does his iconic peace sign
Taunt 2 : Motions at the opponent saying "come on!"
Taunt 3 : thumbs down his opponent with a grin
vivsual differences : has a more peppy idle like his SF4 and SF5 counterpart. When he runs he has fire effects on his feet like when he runs in SFV. His heavy variant of his side b and up b at fire effects to it. He also just comes off as more energetic. While al ot of his moves are similar to ryu in his normals they all use Kens animations from SF4 and SFV so they look slightly different. Ken also has his pallete swaps from SF2 like Ryu does. His animations for his normals are all based mostly off of SF4 and SFV

 

[Zinith]

Can I turn this into a forum game (if it counts as a game)? Who do you think is the biggest underdog newcomer in every Smash game (64,Melee,Brawl,For,For DLC and Ultimate until now)?

64: Jigglypuff
Melee: Pichu
Brawl: R.O.B.
Smash 4: Duck Hunt
Smash 4 DLC: Corrin (yes, really)
Ultimate: Richter

 

[Noipoi]

Hey man. Try to get some therapy if you can. It's a first step. If you ever need to talk my PM's are always open.

This lad loves you.
View attachment 171261

Spoiler

Thanks dude. I'm mostly just trying to get through these next few years, I know adulthood will be hard but it'll give me a chance to break free from my current situation, y'know? Video games are my escape.

That's why Let's Go gets me a little moody. On a base level I really shouldn't care, but when Pokemon, my main method of escape makes a game that doesn't appeal to me (which is fine, not every game should appeal to me) I get kinda emotionally confused.

I've considered therapy, i'm still thinking about it.

It's nice to know someone cares though

 

[Nekoo]

If Dark Samus was hugely requested, where were all those requests?

Not to be that guy but...silent support that Probably showed only in the ballot.

 

[Luigi The President]

Can I turn this into a forum game (if it counts as a game)? Who do you think is the biggest underdog newcomer in every Smash game (64,Melee,Brawl,For,For DLC and Ultimate until now)?

64: Jigglypuff. Literally nothing going for them beyond a tiny anime presence
Melee: So this is a tough one. Excluding the retro reps (Game and Watch, ICies and Dr. Mario), either Pichu or Young Link. Pichu probably edges out. Only other Melee characters I could consider underdogs would be those two.
Brawl: Again excluding retro reps, Toon Link.
4: This is where we start getting into actual underdogs. Excluding retro reps and clones, Rosalina & Luma. Appeared during that sudden push for Rosalina but there was basically 0 things putting her over any other Mario character.
DLC: Corrin
Ultimate: Ridley and K. Rool and there's no other real answer imo.

 

[CosmicQuark]

...Geno's not getting in, is he?...

I feel like Geno's got the best shot out of any third party character. SE rep, popular since Melee, Mii costume (with splash art), everything seems to be pointing in his direction. Of course, we have to be careful since--that's how we get our hopes up in the first place. But 90% range possibility (my estimate) is a pretty good place to be.

As for what Square gets, as mentioned, lots and lots of money. I feel like with most characters, despite all the legal problems, the first step is if Sakurai wants him in, and from what we've heard, he does.

 

[Buzzwole]

I still don’t understand how Dark Samus was highly requested, Chrom I get but where did her popularity come from?

Not angry at her inclusion, just curious.

It was mostly just "well if Dark Pit can get in, why not Dark Samus?"

Without spoiling too much, Dark Samus is an incredibly important villain in the Metroid Prime games. The name "Dark Samus" honestly doesn't do the character justice because it makes her sound like your run-of-the-mill dark doppelganger.
She (it?) is a great addition to the roster, just in terms of Metroid representation.

I don't think I heard many people adamantly request her inclusion over the years, but her support skyrocketed when Echo Fighters were officially branded as a feature of Ultimate.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I definitely do think Geno is getting in especially since Sakurai had wanted him since Brawl but there's always the possibility he's changed his mind on it but even then he knows there's many people that wants him which is why I still say Geno will certainly be in.

 

[Idon]

Can I turn this into a forum game (if it counts as a game)? Who do you think is the biggest underdog newcomer in every Smash game (64,Melee,Brawl,For,For DLC and Ultimate until now)?

64: Jiggs. Literally the luckiest character in Smash History. The stars really aligned for her.

Melee: Marth. I still can't believe they actually spent non-clone time resources into developing a Japanese-only character with zero recognition overseas.

Brawl: ROB. Literally no one saw this coming. They, more than anyone else, had absolute zero in things going for them

4: Shulk. Had no relevancy, no successful franchise, no big company push, no marketing, wasn't an advertisement for anything at all. I really can't see him getting in without Sakurai intervention.

 

[Shroob]

It's ironic.


People are fearing for Geno, when Vergeben may end up being Geno's savior in the end if he does get in.

 

[Noipoi]

Can I turn this into a forum game (if it counts as a game)? Who do you think is the biggest underdog newcomer in every Smash game (64,Melee,Brawl,For,For DLC and Ultimate until now)?

64: Jigglypuff. If she couldn't rip Kirby's model she wouldn't even be in.

Melee: I think Young Link.

Brawl: R.O.B.

4: Maybe Wii Fit Trainer?

Dlc: Definitely Corrin. No one even cared about Corrin.

Ultimate: Ridley.

 

[Jetsurge]

I think Geno is in because this is the Ultimate Smash and putting in the big 3 Ridley, K. Rool and Geno who have been requested for years and years makes sense.

 

[Noipoi]

It's ironic.


People are fearing for Geno, when Vergeben may end up being Geno's savior in the end if he does get in.

Verg has actually saved me once before.
If I brought up Incineroar in May i'd be laughed out of this forum.

 

[Zinith]

Geno is the best bet for Boshi to get in, so....

 

[Luigi The President]

Verg has actually saved me once before.
If I brought up Incineroar in May i'd be laughed out of this forum.

Crazy right???
As I've said like 100 times Incineroar was my OG pipe dream. Now it's a reality.
It took years of patience of seeing him in the shadows but...he's getting into Smash so who won?

 

[Nekoo]

>The big three being Ridley , K.Rool and Geno
>The Big three not being Ridley, K.Rool and Isaac

C'mon let's not make revisionism now. Geno is super popular but...Geno's support post brawl died in Smash4 only to revive for Ballot, get a peak at the Mii Costume interview before dying again and getting back up with the Ultimate Announcement.


Isaac Support was constant in Brawl, Smash4 and Ultimate.

 

[Diem]

There wasn't even 2 million votes in the ballot, it's not that hard for "less important" characters to score high.

Also, because the ballot happened in 2015, when the larger gaming sphere didn't give a crap about Nintendo, all the hardcore Nintendo fans were the primary ones to vote in the ballot. I imagine the type of results for the ballot from three years ago and a ballot taking place next year would be very different.

Not to be that guy but...silent support that Problem showed only in the ballot.

I can understand silent support, but enough silent support for Dark Samus to beat so many other potential characters? If this was a game like Smash 4 where they add a bunch of random-ass characters like Bowser Jr. and Wii Fit Trainer, I could see the logic, but Ultimate, where there's such tight room to squeeze in? It's baffling. I just wish we had the actual numbers, but then if we did, people would just get even more pissed off. Guess it'll just remain a mystery.

It was mostly just "well if Dark Pit can get in, why not Dark Samus?"

Without spoiling too much, Dark Samus is an incredibly important villain in the Metroid Prime games. The name "Dark Samus" honestly doesn't do the character justice because it makes her sound like your run-of-the-mill dark doppelganger.

She (it?) is a great addition to the roster, just in terms of Metroid representation.

You bring up a point that I've mentioned once or twice in the past: Dark Samus is a bad name. When Nintendo already has so many other "Dark" or "Shadow" characters, especially ones like Dark Pit, hearing "Dark Samus" makes the character sound unoriginal. When, in fact, she's one of the most unique characters I've ever seen for a variety of reasons.

I feared that Dark Samus's announcement would face immediate backlash since Dark Pit poisoned the well, but I haven't seen any negativity, surprisingly. It seems that Dark Samus's incredible model and animation work have really impressed people, including those who don't know what she is at all, rather than make them upset that she got in over other potential candidates. It's a relief, I'll say that.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Why do I get the feeling that when the initial Direct date is dropped, there'll be an extreme surge of hype, quickly filled with fear and paranoia and this place will become unbearable?


"Oh god Vergeben's characters are all we're getting..."

"Oh god the box...."

"What if X doesn't make it...."

"Guys, I'm scared for X's chance...."

"We're not getting X, are we?"



We're rushing towards the apocalypse headlong.

Mark my word, there will be something in final direct that make everyone very salty af.

I will ****ing take geno over anyone else, even that I never played Super Mario RPG before.

 

[osby]

Can I turn this into a forum game (if it counts as a game)? Who do you think is the biggest underdog newcomer in every Smash game (64,Melee,Brawl,For,For DLC and Ultimate until now)?

64: Every secret character except Luigi might count but I'll go with Jigglypuff.
Melee: Ice Climbers, considering how convoluted their inclusion was
Brawl: Um, ZSS or PT might be just that, but I'd go with R.O.B.
For: Duck Hunt, it's not even a contest.
For DLC: "Fly Me to the Moon" starts to play.

Seriously, she comes from a M-rated third party franchise debuted in the last decade, it's still nuts she got in.

Ultimate: Richter, duh.

 

[Jetsurge]

Incineroar will be this games underdog. No one wants him in but everyone will think he's cool when they see how he plays.

 

[Luigi The President]

>The big three being Ridley , K.Rool and Geno
>The Big three not being Ridley, K.Rool and Isaac

C'mon let's not make revisionism now. Geno is super popular but...Geno's support post brawl in Smash4 only to revive for Ballot, get a peak at the Mii Costume interview before dying again and getting back up with the Ultimate Announcement.


Isaac Support was constant in Brawl, Smash4 and Ultimate.

Should be the big 4 imo
Geno and Isaac are practically even overall
I don't feel anyone else matches these 4 in specific. Banjo perhaps.

 

[Noipoi]

64: Every secret character except Luigi might count but I'll go with Jigglypuff.
Melee: Ice Climbers, considering how convoluted their inclusion was
Brawl: Um, ZSS or PT might be just that, but I'd go with R.O.B.
For: Duck Hunt, it's not even a contest.
For DLC: "Fly Me to the Moon" starts to play.

Seriously, she comes from a M-rated third party franchise debuted in the last decade, it's still nuts she got in.

Ultimate: Richter, duh.

I was never anti-Bayonetta, but whenever my buddy brought her up i'd say "no way, she's M rated due."
I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[Kaeltor]

>The big three being Ridley , K.Rool and Geno
>The Big three not being Ridley, K.Rool and Isaac

At this point I avoid the "big 3" talk of the past because each respective character's supporters bring up this worthless argument and this thread has too many of those already. I'd rather focus on the new big 3 Geno, Isaac, & Banjo/Kazooie.

 

[NineS]

I was never anti-Bayonetta, but whenever my buddy brought her up i'd say "no way, she's M rated due."
I was pleasantly surprised.

Still shocked this game is only E10+, despite Bayonetta, the Smash trailers (Ridley and Simon's especially), and the other potential things we may get.
At the very least, expected it to be T.

 

[Zinith]

It's quite obvious that the underdogs of Smash 64 were the secret characters barring Luigi, but considering how my boi is treated by Smash and Smash fans in context of the OG 8, it seems like HE got lucky...

 

[Diem]

Mark my word, there will be something in final direct that make everyone very salty af.

I will ****ing take geno over anyone else, even that I never played Super Mario RPG before.

The community will be a saltfest after the last Direct, that's for sure. The previous two Directs left leg room for the remaining contenders, but no matter who the last characters are, there's going to be some resentment, in spite of all the veterans coming back and other big characters being announced. I mean, consider how Sakurai got legitimate harassment from the ironic Waluigi crowd. Now imagine how bad it'll get when characters people have an actual emotional attachment to don't make it in.

There hasn't been much negativity towards Dark Samus so far, but I imagine it'll ramp up once the roster is locked in and people start picking on the characters they feel stole slots. But I'm not going to feel bad, because Dark Samus is the first time in Smash history that I've ever actively been excited for a new character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

>The big three being Ridley , K.Rool and Geno
>The Big three not being Ridley, K.Rool and Isaac

C'mon let's not make revisionism now. Geno is super popular but...Geno's support post brawl died in Smash4 only to revive for Ballot, get a peak at the Mii Costume interview before dying again and getting back up with the Ultimate Announcement.


Isaac Support was constant in Brawl, Smash4 and Ultimate.

I mean while Isaac has popped up a few times, I wouldn't say he's as strong as 4's hype cycle

 

[cothero]

Do you guys think Incineroar, Ken and Geno (considering he might be the Square rep from Verge's source) are the last fighters? Or do you expect some other unleaked surprises? I'm expecting at least one more echo alongside Ken, but i'm not too sure about other original fighters. Plus, i don't think Steve will make into the base roster, because you know, 103 stages.

 

[osby]

I can understand silent support, but enough silent support for Dark Samus to beat so many other potential characters? If this was a game like Smash 4 where they add a bunch of random-*** characters like Bowser Jr. and Wii Fit Trainer, I could see the logic, but Ultimate, where there's such tight room to squeeze in? It's baffling.

I kinda wonder what's your standards for random characters if second most recurring villain of Mario and face of one of the most successful consoles of Nintendo are that.