Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[pupNapoleon]

this exactly couldnt have said it better. I would only add that she was also human shaped and from a developmental point of view thats easy to prevent clipping on stages and when holding items etc... since many other characters have a similar look, also she didnt have a drastically bizarre fighting style like say inkling inking up the stage would have, that would be difficult to implement if the game itself wasnt built with it in mind.

Yep. And that the shape could them be made more easily starting from a base model.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Considering the direct said Bayonetta scored better than characters from past games...

What they specifically stated was that the Top 5 in the US and that ranking includes "even fighters from the previous games in the series" nothing about her beating them all.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Bayonetta didn't rank first among realizable characters, it's just that statement can still be true if say Ice Climbers and Snake did better than her in the US rankings.

At this point I regret even posting the picture.

I forgot Bayonetta is all that is wrong with current Smash to some people around these parts.

Sorry, my bad. I didn't mean to offend you.

Bayonetta is hate incarnate and the one responsible for all of life's woes!

 

[Chandeelure]

Bomberman, and after that, I don't know, a Belmont or Jeanne.

 

[Morbi]

Bomberman, and after that, I don't know, a Belmont or Jeanne.

Maybe they will hold a second ballot and Jeanne will conveniently win it.

 

[Deleted member]

Jeanne

Man, what's up with this Fate love all of a sudden
This is a joke guys I'm not that stupid please

 

[MSmariosonic]

Man, I remember when the Ryu trailer dropped. Some people were commenting on Youtube about how Ryu shouldn't be in Smash due to 'his street fighter inputs creating a bigger gap between casual and competitive players'.

Sadly they weren't joking and were in fact serious.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yep. And that the shape could them be made more easily starting from a base model.

She has a similar body type to . Could it be possible that ZSS was used as a base for Bayonetta?

I was personally talking about series like Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars, Pushmo, Panel De Pon, etc.

Like while it's perfectly fine to want any and all franchises to be represented to say that Bayonetta who is in the current gaming spotlight a lot, if not necessarily mega-watt famous she is certainly certainly in a better off place than any of those franchises above and the characters people call for from them.

You're right about Bayonetta being in a better place as well as being more important to Nintendo at this point than pretty much 90% of Nintendo franchises not represented in Smash with a playable character.

 

[SlickWylde]

I already got my most wanted 3rd Party characters. I was unbelievlably hyped when Megaman was shown in that trailer. I remember people saying "What about Megaman?" and I was like "No, that will NEVER happen" (I might have had to eat a shoe because of that one, can't remember) so that blew me away. And Sonic in Brawl was awesome too. Those were my number 1 and 2, I think.

 

[Rockaphin]

I would rather have Akuma as a "clone" and Ken as an alternative costume, myself.

Akuma confirmed too badass for Smash.
But in all seriousness though, I'd be down for that as well.

I'm hoping to at least see an Evil Ryu alt costume this time.

Man, I remember when the Ryu trailer dropped. Some people were commenting on Youtube about how Ryu shouldn't be in Smash due to 'his street fighter inputs creating a bigger gap between casual and competitive players'.

Sadly they weren't joking and were in fact serious.

Personally, I really like the inputs. It brought something really unique to the table. And it's a nice touch to the character's series. I don't think it's necessary, and unfortunately makes Ryu very difficult to use effectively by many players. I have a few friends that really want to play the character, but cannot get the inputs down. I usually don't have an issue with the inputs, and it feels really great when you pull off some combos, but it's sad to see some people become discouraged to play the character.

 

[Cosmic77]

Honestly don't really want any. Smash 4 had way too many 3rd Parties in my opinion, and I'm not a fan of adding even more.

If they trimmed down the number though, I'll admit that Banjo & Kazooie or Bomberman would be pretty cool.

But counting veterans, all I'd like to see return would be Sonic.

I can relate. There's been a heavy focus on third-parties lately.

Don't get me wrong, every third-party character has been completely unexpected and cool, but this is still suppossed a Nintendo game with a roster of Nintendo characters. Sometimes I feel like people would gladly sweep away every potential Nintendo character we could get in Smash 5 if it meant getting a handful of third-parties.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I actually think there is a good chance we could get a higher proportion of third-party newcomers relative to Nintendo ones than in Brawl and the base Smash 4 roster. Remember that 75% of the newcomers for DLC were third-party ones.

 

[Morbi]

I already got my most wanted 3rd Party characters. I was unbelievlably hyped when Megaman was shown in that trailer. I remember people saying "What about Megaman?" and I was like "No, that will NEVER happen" (I might have had to eat a shoe because of that one, can't remember) so that blew me away. And Sonic in Brawl was awesome too. Those were my number 1 and 2, I think.

I can feel it, this is my time, I will finally get a third-party character that I wanted. Banjo or Goku, lets go! I would settle for Sans (Undertale) or Dante (DMC). If not, I guess Crash falls into that, "pretty cool" category with Ryu and Cloud.

Akuma confirmed too badass for Smash.
But in all seriousness though, I'd be down for that as well.

I'm hoping to at least see an Evil Ryu alt costume this time.

Personally, I really like the inputs. It brought something really unique to the table. And it's a nice touch to the character's series. I don't think it's necessary, and unfortunately makes Ryu very difficult to use effectively by many players. I have a few friends that really want to play the character, but cannot get the inputs down. I usually don't have an issue with the inputs, and it feels really great when you pull off some combos, but it's sad to see some people become discouraged to play the character.

I would main him his the inputs even worked. As I stated before, I am a fighting game veteran. I have been playing them for twenty years. I CAN do them... In other games. It just does not work well in Smash.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

As far as keeping old 3rd parties goes, I genuinely hope they all stay.

Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Sonic at the very least I would be devastated if were removed.

Pac-Man's been growing so much on to me since his reveal trailer and initial time I played him first time. Instantly knew was gonna be my most favorite 3rd party out of all so far. Can't see him cut either, BTW. Would mark first crack in people's awareness that Smash isn't so awesome anymore.

I can only hope they make Pac-Man better in this one though - Had hard time keeping on playing him when R.O.B did all of the zoning playstyle much more consistently.

Also, hydrants being easier to launch from other characters has been bane of some duels I've had now and then. Feels really unfair since Pac being nerfed to not being able to launch hydrants via b-air anymore.

 

[Deleted member]

New third party characters? Shantae and Shovel Knight they do deserve their spotlight!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's pretty weird seeing regular Mario use F.L.U.D.D. as well

But...regular Mario DID use F.L.U.D.D.

Mario wearing a short sleeved shirt doesn’t make it a different Mario. It makes it a different shirt.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Ever since the Smash reveal, there has naturally been a HUGE amoung of chatting and speculation for it, and I have come to realise that people still think Wolf and Lucas and such are clones. Huh.

Also, one thing I think we can ALL agree on... is that we need a Mode where the only difference is that every character has Mario's Hat and Mustache.

 

[Morbi]

But...regular Mario DID use F.L.U.D.D.

Mario wearing a short sleeved shirt doesn’t make it a different Mario. It makes it a different shirt.

To be completely fair, I would be quite perturbed if Doctor Mario was using Fludd. It is just a different outfit... But like a different person. It is like when you see someone with a beard, and then they shave it off, are they truly the same person? Really? Philosophically? I do not think so.

 

[pupNapoleon]

But...regular Mario DID use F.L.U.D.D.

Mario wearing a short sleeved shirt doesn’t make it a different Mario. It makes it a different shirt.

He did use it, but it is nowhere nearly as prominent to Mario as say, Luigi's Vaccuum is to him.

Besides, I don't think F.L.U.D.D. will return either.
Just have a different down move for Mario, or even more, make customizable moves the reason that alt costumes exist.

Then if you are that bothered by it, you can switch the damn move.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Mario wearing a short sleeved shirt doesn’t make it a different Mario. It makes it a different shirt.

Mario wearing different clothes at all doesn't make it a different Mario.

But if Doc fans come knocking you didn't hear it from me.

 

[Morbi]

He did use it, but it is nowhere nearly as prominent to Mario as say, Luigi's Vaccuum is to him.

Besides, I don't think F.L.U.D.D. will return either.
Just have a different down move for Mario, or even more, make customizable moves the reason that alt costumes exist.

Then if you are that bothered by it, you can switch the damn move.

The only problem with that is that custom moves would have to be handled much better than they were last time. I highly doubt they will return as Sakurai never seemed to care that much. It was probably just a gimmick he was trying to diversify the game.

But yeah, most likely going to be replaced by Cappy regardless. So, bye bye Fludd, ironically one of the best Mario characters.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Mario wearing different clothes at all doesn't make it a different Mario.

But if Doc fans come knocking you didn't hear it from me.

They are welcome to come knock.

The way I see it, and this is of course my opinion, better for Doc to be a costume than not in it at all.
And there just isnt enough reason to priorize the Doc- even as bonus, there are more recognizable options.

Honestly, what others find weird is different from what I find weird. Half the arguments on this site are that people find it weird to have 6 Fire Emblem characters on the screen, or weird to not have Dixie but have Bayonnetta. Finding it weird is not an argument.
Sure, it is out of character for Doc to have FLUDD, a lot of this game, as regularly argued, is very against its core components. But characters are adapted so that they can make it in

 

[MSmariosonic]

The custom moves should be handled like how Netherrealm studios did it in injustice 2 with the hidden abilities. Those were worth getting.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Why are we changing movesets arbitrarily when the moves have become familiar to the mains of those characters?

F.L.U.D.D. is fine. It works, and as a player of Mario, I not only like it in the moveset, I also think it will remain.

Not to mention this is moot anyway. We can say what we think in regard to the costume, but Sakurai has his mentality. Doc doesn’t shoot fireballs, but vitamins, so he isn’t a costume.

Doc will not become a costume.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Ever since the Smash reveal, there has naturally been a HUGE amoung of chatting and speculation for it, and I have come to realise that people still think Wolf and Lucas and such are clones. Huh.

Wolf is obviously a Lucario clone. I mean, think about it - they both have a neutral B projectile, a multi-directional recovery move with a brief start-up, a "gett off me" down B defensive move and they are humanoid canines. They are also next to each other on the Brawl CSS.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I also find it pretty ironic that people want FLUDD gone because it was a one-off mechanic from a single game yet no one ever says anything about the cape, a one off mechanic from a single game (that doesn't even work the way it originally did).

I like characters that are an amalgamation of all of their different appearances. Mario has a bit of everything from throughout his history, it'd be a shame to lose FLUDD. Cappy could be added as a different move to freshen him up a bit.

 

[Deleted member]

Most wanted 3rd party newcomer?

Simon Belmont, hands down. Even though I realize his chances are far from great, with Konami being Konami and all.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

ey speakin of doc and the clones, if they can return, then the melee crew needs to come back too, talkin about pichu and yink in addition to wolf. doc's in a weird place where mario's moveset can be updated and tinkis in the same spot and can justify themselves just by existing. plus, kinna nice to have all the vets in one spot, no more bellyaching

snake won't happen tho cause konami gonna konami

but seriously **** edgelord tho

basically if the melee clones can't return, then nuke all of the clones or put the work in with decloning. if the newer clones get to stay, then bring make the melee clones is what i'm sayin

 

[JIR0]

I'd love to see more Zelda villains in Smash for Switch, e.g. Demise, Vaati, Tingle. Hero's Shade from TP or any one of the guardians from BoTW would be awesome. I'm pretty hyped about the implications of Link's new design, too. Guess who's a Link main in Sm4sh lol

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Why are we changing movesets arbitrarily when the moves have become familiar to the mains of those characters?

F.L.U.D.D. is fine. It works, and as a player of Mario, I not only like it I’m the moveset, I also think it will remain.

Because there was no good reason why Mario's original Tornado Down-B move should have been replaced in the first place, and yet it was.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Waluigi
- Yes, I want him. He's a prominent Mario rep and an off-the-wall choice all in one. My idea? Break the rules and add him to the Wario franchise under a small redesign (give him goggles and a jean jacket? haha)

Toad
- I'd play as him. He's been my go-to in a few of the older games, and being a small, fast character, he would likely be a lot of fun.

Daisy
- I'd only care from a completionist sense, but a plant based moveset could be cool

Geno
- Serious question: Why do people want him? I've never played the game, but he always just struck me as a random side character in one old game that Nintendo doesn't even have the rights to. What's the appeal?

 

[Chandeelure]

I've been using Kirby in Smash for like 20 years and I wouldn't mind at all if they changed his entire moveset, because his current one is terrible. It's both wasted potential and bad competitively.

 

[Luminario]

I also find it pretty ironic that people want FLUDD gone because it was a one-off mechanic from a single game yet no one ever says anything about the cape, a one off mechanic from a single game (that doesn't even work the way it originally did).

I like characters that are an amalgamation of all of their different appearances. Mario has a bit of everything from throughout his history, it'd be a shame to lose FLUDD. Cappy could be added as a different move to freshen him up a bit.

Haven't people been wanting the Galaxy Spin to replace the Cape for ages now?

 

[Morbi]

Why are we changing movesets arbitrarily when the moves have become familiar to the mains of those characters?

F.L.U.D.D. is fine. It works, and as a player of Mario, I not only like it I’m the moveset, I also think it will remain.

This is just a personal thought; however, I believe he is going to revisit a lot of the veterans in some way, shape or form. I am not sure how significant. Some people want Link to have breakable weapons. I am not sure they would go that far, but I could EASILY see one of the least regarded moves in the game being replaced with something everyone is familiar with via Odyssey. I consider it a given, at that.

I could definitely be wrong, but it would be weird to update characters such as Link and Samus while not touching Mario. They did it once before, not as though Fludd was in Melee. To that end, he might keep Fludd and change some other aspect.

 

[Cosmic77]

I actually think there is a good chance we could get a higher proportion of third-party newcomers relative to Nintendo ones than in Brawl and the base Smash 4 roster. Remember that 75% of the newcomers for DLC were third-party ones.

Now I wouldn't go that far. You have to remember the costs and licensing issues that comes along with each third-party character. Keeping the six we've got right now is probably a lot for Nintendo. Imagine what that would be like with 8-10 third-party characters.

Why are we changing movesets arbitrarily when the moves have become familiar to the mains of those characters?

F.L.U.D.D. is fine. It works, and as a player of Mario, I not only like it I’m the moveset, I also think it will remain.

We've had F.L.U.D.D. for two Smash games. Might as well keep the darn thing. If people really want to see Odyssey represented in a moveset, they should just encourage Sakurai to make Cappy or Pauline playable instead of changing something that doesn't even need to be changed in the first place.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Nice to see people still immediately assume you dislike something because you criticize said thing on the internet.

Anyhow...

Most wanted 3rd party newcomer?
Can't decide between Crash, Simon Belmont and Bomberman.

EDIT: Never mind. Somehow I forgot about banjo & kazooie. I make them my most wanted newcomers. Though they have less chance than the aforementioned three.

Definitely Banjo-Kazooie for me too.

I don’t see them coming in, but if they added in Crash and Banjo I’d go nuts. I do think Rayman or a Rabbid is the most likely though, and are the only third party newcomers where I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see one make it in.

 

[Lyndis_]

Ever since the Smash reveal, there has naturally been a HUGE amoung of chatting and speculation for it, and I have come to realise that people still think Wolf and Lucas and such are clones. Huh.

Are they not? I think Smash people are a little bit too conservative with their definition of the clone. Even Luigi is a clone, technically. It's not a bad thing, and it doesn't mean they have to play the same at all or make them lesser.

Just about every move Wolf does is a tweaked Fox one. Same with Lucas and Luigi (aside from Luigi's side-B, and down-B that Mario changed to F.L.U.D.D)

f the newer clones get to stay, then bring make the melee clones is what i'm sayin

I would genuinely love a completely redesigned Young Link with masks from Majora's Mask and other items.

I think Young Link as he stands is just way too similar to Toon Link to be a good addition to the roster without an overhaul.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

We've had F.L.U.D.D. for two Smash games. Might as well keep the darn thing. If people really want to see Odyssey represented in a moveset, they should just encourage Sakurai to make Cappy or Pauline playable instead of changing something that doesn't even need to be changed in the first place.

That's exactly what happen to Mario's Down B in the first place, which is how we got FLUDD.

 

[Staarih]

Geno
- Serious question: Why do people want him? I've never played the game, but he always just struck me as a random side character in one old game that Nintendo doesn't even have the rights to. What's the appeal?

I guess it's just because he's "cool"? And his moveset practically writes itself. The hype was real for Geno pre-Brawl, and it's super easy to get caught in a storm like that and kinda "accidentally" begin to like and root for a character you probably never even thought about before.
Worked for me at least

I gotta give props to the Geno fans though, even if just a Mii costume, but for someone as (lets face it) non-important as Geno is pretty good and probably one of the only actual examples in Smash where fandom/support played a big part.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why are we changing movesets arbitrarily when the moves have become familiar to the mains of those characters?

F.L.U.D.D. is fine. It works, and as a player of Mario, I not only like it I’m the moveset, I also think it will remain.

Not to mention this is moot anyway. We can say what we think in regard to the costume, but Sakurai has his mentality. Doc doesn’t shoot fireballs, but vitamins, so he isn’t a costume.

Doc will not become a costume.

If we get an Odyssey specific mario, sure.
But I don't see us getting that- I see mario getting his hat throw. And I think the most logical move to replace is FLUDD.

 

[Deleted member]

Just about every move Wolf does is a tweaked Fox one. Same with Lucas and Luigi (aside from Luigi's side-B, and down-B that Mario changed to F.L.U.D.D)

Specials =/= the whole moveset