Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

oh so true, and trust me I kind of want him, I guess its just when i look at the full roster and see link and toon link I wonder if midna or skull kid or someone would be better than two links from simply and aesthetic point of view and i feel paper mario would do the same when i see two mario characters.

I mean, clones are always something done late in development anyway (unless you're Brawl and planned on decloning the clones from the beginning lol), so even if Doc shows up, he's more of a bonus

 

[Cosmic77]

If we're assuming (just hypothetically) that Mario in Smash 5 would be getting a bit of a redesign around some of his Odyssey moves, then Dr. Mario would be even more seperate to Mario than he already is in 4.

Then, with a Paper Mario not even being a little bit alike the only thing they'd really share is the name... I have no issue with that. I mean, we've already had 3 Links in the series, even if one was just to replace another.

I'd even be fine with getting both Paper Mario and "Mario & Luigi" as characters. Both are fantastic spin-off series in their own rights. As long as they aren't clones, they'd have my full support.

 

[papagenos]

Also consider that if Smash Switch is indeed a Splatoon 2-esque "port gone wrong", Sakurai might not have planned the roster in advance which could mean the return of Toon Link/Wolf-like semi-clones, which would give Daisy an advantage over Waluigi (even though she probably would not get a spin-off moveset that way, more likely would be a floatless but faster, better, stronger, harder Peach)

we really need some key info here to make better guesses at this smash haha, I mean while we know its "new" we have no context for what that means exactly and I think everyone still has the "how much of smash 4 port" is this gonna be in their minds and I admit I do too. I need some gameplay to see if everythings redesigned or what its really hard to guess if clones will return if we'll get a lot or a few newcomers etc... without really having a clear idea of what this smash will look like.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Hey, one idea I wanted to throw out;

At this point, the single Mario character I would want most is Paper Mario. I love the idea of a Mario that utilizes his hammer as his fighting style, and I think there's a lot of potential for interesting special moves with things like partners and paper abilities.

The main argument I see to this is that it's "just another Mario," which I think is valid; it doesn't necessarily "expand" the representation of characters the same way a totally new character would.

However...given the events of Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, can we consider Paper Mario his own entity?

In my eyes, there are three big Mario newcomers left: Toad, Waluigi, and Paper Mario.

I think Toad “deserves” to be in the most. He wouldn’t be particularly interesting to play as, but it’s his importance that makes me want him in. He’s been in nearly every Mario game, and is an icon of the series. I think he really should’ve been added in Brawl, or at least before Rosalina in Smash 4. I think Captain Toad growing in popularity and getting his own game since Smash 4 boosts Toad’s chances in general, although I still think they’d put in regular Toad over Captain Toad.

Paper Mario would be cool too, but I’m mixed. I never beat TTYD or 64, so I don’t have a close attachment to him, but I know that those are games are fantastic and beloved. I’d put him under the other two in how much I want him, because he’d definitely be based off his Sticker Star/Color Splash self. No way he’d have partners. If they brought the series back to the TTYD style, I’d support him wholeheartedly for Smash since they’d take elements from that.

I’d love Waluigi, with his moveset representing all the Mario spin-offs, not just sports, but Party and Kart too. The only weird thing is that he’d be a Mario character while his brother is off to the side as a Wario character. He still needs his own game at some point.

If I had to choose, I’d say the order of how much I want them in would be the order I listed them. I guess I’d also say that’s the order of likeliness in my eyes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Mario's problem is that there's a LOT of options

 

[Megadoomer]

Same here.

Even if they only put in the "realizable characters" or the top 10 (or a combination of both), it'd at least be something.

My main concern is that it would divide the Smash fanbase even more than it already is. Imagine if a popular choice, like K. Rool, was close to getting in through the Smash Ballot, but missed out because some Donkey Kong fans voted for Dixie instead, or people who wanted more villains voted for Dark Matter, or Nintendo considered King K. Rool and Kaptain K. Rool separate characters like they did in Brawl's trophies.

Plus, they're undoubtedly going to use the results from the Smash Ballot when deciding the roster, so revealing who did well or who else was considered realizable would basically give away the roster for Smash 5.

 

[Michelaar]

Hey, as long as Miranda Sings is in Smash, I will be happy.

 

[domriver]

Any rumors, leaks, or official info as to when they plan to release more information on Smash Switch? Aside from the obvious E3? lol i keep going to the main website but it remains the same.

 

[Cosmic77]

Plus, they're undoubtedly going to use the results from the Smash Ballot when deciding the roster, so revealing who did well or who else was considered realizable would basically give away the roster for Smash 5.

Probably not entirely. A lot of characters we have right now didn't even exist when the ballot ended in October 2015. I'm sure we'll still get a handful of more recent characters, like Rex/Pyra, Spring Man, and a Gen VII Pokemon.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

To me, the Mii’s were actually more enjoyable as the ”multi-man” opponents than actual fighters lol. Though I think I’d welcome a revamped Mii in the next game, playing with them and setting them up in Smash4 felt so cumbersome.

This actually. I'd made a good number of Miis on my WiiU, so I really enjoyed seeing everyone from Abe Lincoln to my grandfather suddenly swarming in to attack

My one friend was always being KO'd by this old man Mii, so much so that it became one of the better game rivalries I've seen, haha

 

[Deleted member]

Probably not entirely. A lot of characters we have right now didn't even exist when the ballot ended in October 2015. I'm sure we'll still get a handful of more recent characters, like Rex/Pyra, Spring Man, and a Gen VII Pokemon.

The roster was probably decided before some of those characters even existed.

 

[Michelaar]

Okay joking aside, I really don't see the need to cut that much people, or anyone at all. And the current clones can all easily be decloned. Mario can get a new moveset with Cappy, so Dr. Mario doesn't have to be a clone, and can just use Mario's old moveset, Dark Pit can utilize his staff in more attacks, and for Lucina they could take inspiration from her moveset in Fire Emblem Warriors.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

In my eyes, there are three big Mario newcomers left: Toad, Waluigi, and Paper Mario.

I think Toad “deserves” to be in the most. He wouldn’t be particularly interesting to play as, but it’s his importance that makes me want him in. He’s been in nearly every Mario game, and is an icon of the series. I think he really should’ve been added in Brawl, or at least before Rosalina in Smash 4. I think Captain Toad growing in popularity and getting his own game since Smash 4 boosts Toad’s chances in general, although I still think they’d put in regular Toad over Captain Toad.

Paper Mario would be cool too, but I’m mixed. I never beat TTYD or 64, so I don’t have a close attachment to him, but I know that those are games are fantastic and beloved. I’d put him under the other two in how much I want him, because he’d definitely be based off his Sticker Star/Color Splash self. No way he’d have partners. If they brought the series back to the TTYD style, I’d support him wholeheartedly for Smash since they’d take elements from that.

I’d love Waluigi, with his moveset representing all the Mario spin-offs, not just sports, but Party and Kart too. The only weird thing is that he’d be a Mario character while his brother is off to the side as a Wario character. He still needs his own game at some point.

If I had to choose, I’d say the order of how much I want them in would be the order I listed them. I guess I’d also say that’s the order of likeliness in my eyes.

Mario's problem is that there's a LOT of options

I think you're forgetting that Mario got TWO newcomers the last game. It's very likely we won't get a newcomer from that series when all of the most important characters are already there. It's beyond unnecessary to add more Mario characters this time around.

The only character I see happening is Captain Toad and for good reason given his recent history. Anything more than that would be extremely generous.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I like him but I'd rather have toad/waluigi/daisy feels like the full mario crew isnt here yet and before we go with paper mario I'd want them. The cast wont seem a bit empty without him, even though he'd be cool, where as not seeing toad or waluigi next to wario feels off. Also specifically with doctor mario it does feel weird adding another mario but maybe the doctor will be a costume this time.

also yes this is coming from a guy who wants geno haha.

Doc a Costume.
Toad a character.
Paper mario a character.

And Bring in Daisy an an Assist- she is certainly big enough to be an AT. Then again, I am one to believe we should have at least twice as many AT's as characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I think you're forgetting that Mario got TWO newcomers the last game. It's very likely we won't get a newcomer from that series when all of the most important characters are already there. It's beyond unnecessary to add more Mario characters this time around.

The only character I see happening is Captain Toad and for good reason given his recent history. Anything more than that would be extremely generous.

There's no such thing as "neccesary".

Doc a Costume.

Ew

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The roster was probably decided before some of those characters even existed.

I mean, it really depends on when some games started being worked on.

Plus, there's always a chance of Sakurai leaving a few vague spots on his original roster in case new games happen, like what happened with Greninja for Smash 4.

 

[Cosmic77]

The roster was probably decided before some of those characters even existed.

I highly doubt every character we get in Smash Switch will have debuted before November 2016. This game will have around two years of development time without the help of delays, and unlike last time, Sakurai doesn't have to create 29 different veterans from scratch.

 

[?????????????]

I think Toad “deserves” to be in the most. He wouldn’t be particularly interesting to play as, but it’s his importance that makes me want him in. He’s been in nearly every Mario game, and is an icon of the series.

Actually, this was another thing I was curious about.

Who really wants Toad?

Like, I've always been under the impression that he was the "most deserving." Been around since the beginning, been playable for almost as long, continues to regularly be playable in adventures, has his own series now...

But is there are large amount of people actually interested in playing as Toad in Smash Bros.?

I don't know, but if not, I think that gives him less of an edge... I mean, Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were already picked first, and personally, I would be MUCH more interested in playing as Paper Mario or Waluigi.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner of the last poll was Seliph, which is an accomplishment compared to his father. Julia was close to him by half votes and Lewyn managed to bear Julius.

Next is the first of two Thracia 776 since this is the end of the Super NES era for Fire Emblem. Your choices are Lief, Fergus, Raydrik, and Veld.

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[pupNapoleon]

There's no such thing as "neccesary".


Ew

I honestly think it is much more Ew to see no Toad in the roster.

And yes, I know. They're dessert. And sometimes dessert is unhealthy.

 

[Bowserlick]

Daisy Moveset​

Daisy brings a ruthless gladiator/obstacle fighting style to Smash. Happy to be free of boring Princess bureaucratic duties, Daisy takes out her anger issues on the rest of the cast. She is a well-balanced fighter stat-wise, but uses projectile-based Smashes, floating bombs, flying blades and flaming tennis balls to overwhelm her enemies.

Daisy likes to fight with style. Her Down Special allows her to plant a Speed Ring from MarioKart Wii U either horizontal or in a vertical manner. While any character or projectile gets a speed boost from the ring, Daisy gets an extra-speed boost and a power boost signified by a flashy orange effect. Rings make excellent bulls-eyes to throw enemies through for extra-distance.

Her aerial attacks are good for set-ups for flashy sky-high combos as well as having a couple good power moves for the finisher.

Spoiler: Moveset

Specials

(B) Flaming Shot: Daisy tosses a flaming tennis ball in front of her. There is a slight delay where the player can input the angle of the hit, before Daisy swings with a tennis racket.

The ball does not go as far as Pit’s arrow, but does more damage and can bounce once off a wall or floor.

Toward (B) Razor Petal: A metal platform shaped like a flower head with blades designed as petals appears below Daisy. She crouches low and goes forward at a decent speed. She can angle her craft up and down.

The blade goes the distance of Fox’s illusion before the blade disappears and the princess falls into helpless mode. The blade does multiple hits, with the last hit sending opponents behind Daisy.

Up (B) Fluff Bomb: Daisy pulls out a small Bo-omb attached to a Dandelion/Daisy puff (which makes the contraption look like a parachute-seed). Daisy goes not quite the distance of Peach’s umbrella attack before letting go of the seed.

While Daisy free falls, the seed bomb floats upwards where it can explode upon contact with a player.

Down (B) Mariokart Speed Ring: Daisy twirls around in place like a missile, while a ring from Mariokart Wii U forms around her. The ring can be shifted from a regular state to a vertical state and back again.

After a short time, Daisy shoots out like a missile with an orange glow effect, going about the distance of an Uncharged Luigi missile. The ring stays. She can have one ring out at a time. If she plants another ring, the previous one disappears.

Anyone or anything that goes through the rings gets a speed boost. However, Daisy or any of her projectiles gets an added speed and damage boost if propelled by a ring, symbolized by an orange light effect.

Daisy can use her ring to boost flaming tennis balls, propel her blade craft, leap higher with her bombs (which also float faster when released), add speed and power to her projectile smashes or boost her air speed for an accelerated aerial attack.

Smashes

Forward Smash Twirling Dropkick: Like Fox’s old Smash move from Smash 64, Daisy performs a dropkick while spinning. Go through a ring for extra distance and launching power.

Up Smash Bullet Bill Pluck: Not to be outdone by Peach, Daisy plucks a bullet bill from the ground which jets upwards a distance before exploding. Going through a ring gives this missile an extra boost of speed and power.

Down Smash Olympic Hammer Throw: From Mario and Sonic Olympic games, Daisy twirls in place while wielding an Olympic hammer (The hammer could look like a smaller Chain-Chomp to further reference the Mario universe). When the Smash is released, she tosses the Hammer/Chain Chomp in the direction it was aimed when let go.

A Smash that does damage when charging and has good KO damage when released.

Ground Attacks

(A) Karate Moves - Daisy performs a horizontal hand slice.
(A,A) Daisy performs a horizontal hand slice. She follows up with a downward hand chop.
(A,A,A) Daisy performs a horizontal hand slice. She follows up with a downward hand chop. She finishes with a forward palm that pushes the enemy away a good distance.

Dash (A) Turbo Boost – Daisy does a shoulder ram as turbo arrows from MarioKart appear on the floor beneath her, giving her a boost of acceleration. Not as strong as other shoulder rams such as Ganondorf or Samus’s ram, unless she goes through a ring.

Down (A) Somersault – Daisy performs a somersault which pops enemies upwards before returning to her crouch pose.

Up (A) Leaping Head-butt – Peach’s old Up tilt. Daisy performs a jumping head-butt.

Forward (A) Whirling Backhand – Daisy spins backwards and delivers a swinging backhand. Good power for a tilt.

Aerials

Forward (A) Soccer Kick – Daisy performs a large upwards kick as if launching a soccer ball. This move has decent power and is good for set-ups.

Back (A) Straight kick – Sends a rigid leg backwards to launch an opponent. Like a reverse Ryu’s Forward Smash performed in the air. Good power and sends the opponent on a straight path.

Up (A) Sky Kick – Peach’s old Upward kick from Melee and Brawl.

Down (A) Karate Chop – Daisy performs a downward karate chop. A nice quick attack and a weak meteor smash.

Neutral (A) T Punch – Daisy crosses her arms across her chest briefly before unfurling them into a punch on each side.


Throws

Daisy grabs with her hands.
Pummel Forehead Smash – Rams her forehead into the enemy

Down Throw Tantrum – Slams the opponent onto the ground and leaps in quick motion several times on their floored body as she turns red in the face. Pops up at the end.

Forward Throw Body Sled – Leaps onto her opponents and skates on their body upon the floor a distance, before stepping off. The opponent keeps sliding. Send them through a ring.

Up Throw Shoulder Press – Daisy faces the screen and does a shoulder press with the enemy, heaving them straight upwards. Why not throw them through a vertically aligned ring?

Back Throw Roundhouse – Swings the enemy behind her and performs a spinning roundhouse.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Doc a Costume.

Honestly would be very weird to see Doc use Fludd.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I voted for Toad and Captain Toad in the ballot.

Toad is one of my favorite Mario characters in general.

I play as him in spin-offs a lot. And in mainline games where he's playable.

I know a lot of others that do as well.

I was convinced he was due in last game. Which is why I didn't even consider Rosalina a possibility.

I for sure thought Toad and Bowser Jr were next in line.

Toad has a fanbase. Believe it or not.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

Doc a Costume.

Considering what Sakurai said about Doc as a costume in Smash 4,

But, when talking about Dr. Mario, including his abilities he had a lot of individuality in Melee compared to Mario. Also there were fans that said things like “I’m a doctor!”, or “A back-alley doctor!” when they chose the black color-config. When you have such fans and you just change the character-model and leave it at that and it becomes “The same as Mario”, we thought people might get angry (laughs). That’s why we forced ourselves and changed that.

I don't see him becoming a costume now.

 

[Michelaar]

The winner of the last poll was Seliph, which is an accomplishment compared to his father. Julia was close to him by half votes and Lewyn managed to bear Julius.

Next is the first of two Thracia 776 since this is the end of the Super NES era for Fire Emblem. Your choices are Lief, Fergus, Raydrik, and Veld.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

I would like Leif. They could utilize his light brand to make him stand out from other swordfighters.

 

[Deleted member]

I cringe everytime I see someone suggesting a character should become a costume.


Also, for real, Daisy being a tomboy is an Informed Attribute, I have never seen her acting like such.

 

[?????????????]

I voted for Toad and Captain Toad in the ballot.

Toad is one of my favorite Mario characters in general.

I play as him in spin-offs a lot. And in mainline games where he's playable.

I know a lot of others that do as well.

I was convinced he was due in last game. Which is why I didn't even consider Rosalina a possibility.

I for sure thought Toad and Bowser Jr were next in line.

Toad has a fanbase. Believe it or not.

I was honestly surprised when Rosalina beat him out. I never even considered her until she was revealed for Super Mario 3D World (which I think wound up being the same day she was revealed for Smash Bros?).

Even then, Toad was there first. It seems a bit unfair.

 

[Lyndis_]

Actually, this was another thing I was curious about.

Who really wants Toad?

Like, I've always been under the impression that he was the "most deserving." Been around since the beginning, been playable for almost as long, continues to regularly be playable in adventures, has his own series now...

But is there are large amount of people actually interested in playing as Toad in Smash Bros.?

I don't know, but if not, I think that gives him less of an edge... I mean, Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were already picked first, and personally, I would be MUCH more interested in playing as Paper Mario or Waluigi.

I don't see a generic Toad ever becoming a playable character in Smash, honestly.

Captain Toad I could see. They'd have to find a way to work around his jumping issue (or just come up with a reason for him to be able to), but it could work... I'd enjoy it, at least.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

I think Captain Toad will help Toad get into Smash, but that Toad might not be Captain Toad specifically. Captain Toad might just be a costume for a generic Toad character.

 

[?????????????]

Also, for real, Daisy being a tomboy is an Informed Attribute, I have never seen her acting like such.

Yeah, what does tomboy even really imply anyway? I always just thought of Daisy as loud and energetic.

 

[Deleted member]

The "Captain Toad can't jump" argument is stupid when at least half the cast can't do that either in their own games. It's a mechanic to his own game, not Smash. Sakurai won't look at him and say "well, he can't jump, guess I can't make him playable!".

 

[RosiePeaches]

I think you're forgetting that Mario got TWO newcomers the last game. It's very likely we won't get a newcomer from that series when all of the most important characters are already there. It's beyond unnecessary to add more Mario characters this time around.

The only character I see happening is Captain Toad and for good reason given his recent history. Anything more than that would be extremely generous.

Well Mario is the biggest franchise in the Nintendo space by quite a margin. And it doesn't take the majority of the roster at all. In fact I will argue that DKC is the franchise that does not need any more representatives as playable characters due to how closely DKC is tied with Mario and how the Mario characters are a lot more popular and less obscure than the DKC characters.

The "Captain Toad can't jump" argument is stupid when at least half the cast can't do that either in their own games. It's a mechanic to his own game, not Smash. Sakurai won't look at him and say "well, he can't jump, guess I can't make him playable!".

Captain Toad's games were designed around him being unable to jump.

 

[?????????????]

The "Captain Toad can't jump" argument is stupid when at least half the cast can't do that either in their own games. It's a mechanic to his own game, not Smash. Sakurai won't look at him and say "well, he can't jump, guess I can't make him playable!".

I agree. It's like back when people said flying characters, like Charizard, shouldn't be playable cause it would be unfair.

Even though Kirby can infinitely fly in most of his games.

 

[Lyndis_]

The "Captain Toad can't jump" argument is stupid when at least half the cast can't do that either in their own games. It's a mechanic to his own game, not Smash. Sakurai won't look at him and say "well, he can't jump, guess I can't make him playable!".

Link or Olimar's inability to jump aren't integral parts of their design, nor do they have an actual reason for not being able to do outside of gameplay (Captain Toad's being his heavy backpack prevents him from jumping).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I would be super sad if 8 Player Smash was removed.

It's an outstanding mode that's made parties and club meetings ten times better.

I love it.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I agree. It's like back when people said flying characters, like Charizard, shouldn't be playable cause it would be unfair.

Even though Kirby can infinitely fly in most of his games.

It's also like people saying Ridley can't be playable because he's too big.

Wait what?

 

[Freduardo]

I cringe everytime I see someone suggesting a character should become a costume.


Also, for real, Daisy being a tomboy is an Informed Attribute, I have never seen her acting like such.

Overtly energetic when competing in athletics - Her reactions in Mario Strikers series. Pretty common among tomboys.

Punches Bowser (not slaps, punches) in mario party 3... pretty tomboyish.

And she’s being judged as a tomboy as an English translation of a culture that sees any woman acting less demure than Peach or Hinata from Naruto as tomboyish. Which makes most the females in the Nintendo canon except for Peach and Isabelle tomboys.

 

[?????????????]

Link or Olimar's inability to jump aren't integral parts of their design, nor do they have an actual reason for not being able to do outside of gameplay (Captain Toad's being his heavy backpack prevents him from jumping).

...So...he could just take it off..?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Doc a Costume.
Toad a character.
Paper mario a character.

And Bring in Daisy an an Assist- she is certainly big enough to be an AT. Then again, I am one to believe we should have at least twice as many AT's as characters.

Doc decloned
Toad a character
Paper Mario a character
Daisy a new clone (semi or full)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Little Mac return and Spring Man coming as newcomer, it will be a new kind of challenge in a boxing match for the Little Mac.

Imagine that. That would be an interesting match-up, especially given they would play like poplar opposites, with Little Mac being more close-range and Spring Man being more like Dhalsim.