Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Rockaphin]

lollll time for the nonsense again

also why is the new roster builder just a collection of images. so lazy

anyway roster time


breakdown is like this. green bgs are folk that i'm confident enough to say 'yeah they're in'. either their silhouette in the trailer was clear or they were outright shown blue bgs are dudes i think are sure to come back. yellows are the 'uh-oh' squad, toons that don't have good prospects. reds are all but certain to be gone come next game. pink/purple is wishlist.

you see an !, they're a newbie. you see a rotating symbol, they're returning. you see a hammer/wrench, they're a rework. wishlist doesn't have any likelihood attached to it 'cause who the **** knows what sakurai's thinking at times, so it's just that; a wishlist. also characters in the wishlist aren't gonna have the ! symbol cause they're implied to be new dummies, so don't be dumb.

EY LETS DO A BREAKDOWN - also i dunno how to do collapsing proper so get ready for dumb quote edits.










so you might notice that a lot of 3rd party's on that cut list, cause negotiations are hard and who tf knows what's going on in various HQs (lookin' at you Konami). smash 4 had a crazy roster of 3rd party but a lot of it felt flash-in-the-pan. who knows, maybe ninty proved savvy and made sure amiibo allows future smash intros, who knows.

ey that's me.

: genwunner or not. Charizard is among the most popular Pokemon and survived the "No-Transformations" rule. RIP Pokemon Trainer, I miss you. I'd say Charizard is as likely to return as many of the Blue characters you listed.

 

[?????????????]

I'm fine with Ganondorf as he is. I will admit a new moveset could always be cool. But I have my doubts it would be based on hyrule warriors. What would it be based off of then? I dunno.

Literally ANY Zelda game where he is a boss.

Unlike now. Where he is based on Captain Falcon.

 

[Starcutter]

What is the connection between Waluigi and Toad/Pauline? What's wrong with having those characters, but not Waluigi???????

Why would Waluigi even be playable in the first place. Not that he's relevant to either of the characters you mentioned.

I suppose you are right about Waluigi not really having an impact on Toad or Pauline. There's nothing wrong with them.

I'm mostly getting at the fact I personally believe there will only be one more Mario character, and I believe Waluigi is the most popular relevant character. That's all there is to it, I don't hate Pauline or Toad, I'm just thinking realistically.

 

[Hinata]

“Greninja is getting cut” just kinda feels like “Lucario is getting cut in Smash 4 like how Mewtwo was cut from brawl”. History repeats itself.

The problem is that Pokemon are such a disposable bunch of characters. There are 800 of them now, you could toss any Pokemon out of Smash and have hundreds ready to take their spot. Other than Pikachu and Jigglypuff, every Pokemon is potentially in hot water.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I can't believe people are STILL suggesting that they become pallet swaps. The whole reason they are separate characters is because of the necessary differences. And Sakurai already stated he couldn't make Dr. Mario a costume because it was an insult to his fans.

He's explained this numerous times.

Unfortunately there are always gonna be close-minded people who will be claiming clones took the spots of other characters.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Literally ANY Zelda game where he is a boss.

Unlike now. Where he is based on Captain Falcon.

Any particular ideas which one then? And are we including Ganon in this as well?

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I still don't understand why so many people believed in that crap.

I believed it because i was a depressed and self-loathing 15 year old that desperately wanted Mewtwo as playable in Smash 4 and was willing to follow any rumor that hinted at that idea.

 

[?????????????]

The problem is that Pokemon are such a disposable bunch of characters. There are 800 of them now, you could toss any Pokemon out of Smash and have hundreds ready to take their spot. Other than Pikachu and Jigglypuff, every Pokemon is potentially in hot water.

I don't think so. We have NEVER seen a two-time veteran get cut (besides Ice Climbers, for technical reasons).

Charizard and Lucario are as safe as Ike and R.O.B.

 

[So_many_mails]

What do people think about 'conversation easter eggs' coming back? I.e. the Codec Easter Egg from Brawl and Palutena Guidance Easter Egg from Smash4. Do you think either will return, or will a new one be created? Prehaps Cappy talking about the opponents like he talks about worlds in Odyssey?

EDIT: Forgot there are Starfox ones too.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah...I feel like I've said this EVERY DAY now, but I really doubt Greninja will get cut. Not with how much was done with him... like, namely, the Satoshi-Greninja transformation, which is COMPLETELY unique to Greninja alone.

I agree with this 100%.
The more people say Greninja is going to get cut, the more angry I get. Greninja is really popular at this point and Greninja is still getting a lot of love, like Ash-Greninja in Generation Seven. I highly doubt Greninja is going to get cut from Smash 4 to Smash in Switch, and I think Greninja could remain in every Smash Brothers game it is in.

I’m not N3ON.

I am her long lost grandson.

 

[N3ON]

Yes

Your kill list will be plentiful indeed.

 

[?????????????]

Any particular ideas which one then? And are we including Ganon in this as well?

Personally, I've always been into giving him a fighting style based on Twilight Princess's swordplay, with specials based on Ocarina of Time (Dead Man's Volley, Levitate, etc.)

 

[IronTed]

What a story memoryman. So the Emily stuff was bs? Good false advertising in the title then. However, given her reply, it does seem possible she is as aware as the others behind the scenes. The Jonneh stuff was obvious, you could find that on resetera, but I guess now we know he had a direct source at Nintendo and isn't just rehashing second-hand info. And the Ryce stuff was earlier said to be from a discord chat. So it seems like Jonneh is indeed the source (or a source), and he was correct about his other stuff. Hmm.

Anyway thanks for the tag, I don't know if I would've returned to FAQs otherwise... dug that account from a three year dormancy to question him, lol.


We're all N3ON in our hearts.

Well, at least we seem to have the facts straight now. Too bad memoryman had to do that and unnecessarily involve Rogers in this.

If nothing else, all this proves that the thirst for Ridley is still very strong. The thread was moving so fast at the mere prospect of him being playable.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Suppose there was a smash ballot, and you got to pick one of each of the following for the new game:
Character
Stage
Mechanic (or remove a mechanic)
Rework a character/remove a character

Huuuh.

- Starfy (Well, he'd make me most overjoyed after all these years since 2007)

- Venus Lighthouse (Golden Sun)

- Tag Team Mode ala Mahvel

- Wario gets Wario Land-inspired moveset.

Bonk

A fellow Bonk-fan? In my Smashboards?

 

[Arcanir]

It's because it had Ridley in it. Let's be honest.

Eh, considering how many times this has happened before with characters such as Inklings and Shovel Knight, Ridley really isn't an exception. Any newcomer with a good amount of support would've probably garnered the same amount of discussion, especially if it was coming from sources that had some credibility to them.

As for the information that just came out, as I said in the Ridley thread I'd take their word at face value, but don't completely forget about it. If we get more information that says otherwise, then we'll come back to it, but for now lets leave it as is.

FYI, anyone who says "Ganondorf rework" gets on my kill list.

After playing HW, I can't say I agree. HW's Ganondorf shown how he could be a mixture of the brute force we see in Smash, his signature magical abilities, and his popular sword fighting without sacrificing any particular aspect for one. I feel Smash doesn't have to stick to the former, they could add things like Dead Man's Volley or a couple sword attacks to make him feel more like an even mixture.

 

[Lord-Zero]

I do not even understand that logic. "Oh a character that has always been broken for lower level players and useless for higher end players, let us not rework them and instead focus our direction on one of the original 12 who has appeared for an additional game and has a universal move-set." Sure, there is a clone version of Link, but it is not the same... At all. If they were planning on reworking Link, why not Zelda? And to that end, the spells make sense on her given the precedent.

I am still not entirely convinced either would happen. I am just saying, altering one of the most iconic characters in the series history as opposed to a largely "meh" character does not make much sense to me.

Hard to say. Right-handed BotW!Link being the new Smash!Link already changed things to some degree. Would this extend to the rest of the Zelda reps? Only time will tell.

 

[geoluminescent]

Personally, I'd like to see Ganondorf reworked/given a trident and Black Shadow added to take on his current moveset.

For his specials, I'd have something like...

B: Firebats. He summons a buncha fireballs around himself as it charges; anyone who runs into them gets minor damage and flinches. Charge can be held. Press B to unleash them as a swarm in front of him, or maybe their direction can be influenced? (Inspired by ALTTP)

>B: Dead Man's Volley. He smacks the air in front of him with a backhanded trident swing, reflecting projectiles or doing decent knockback against opponents at a good gimp angle. Faster than Mario's cape, but doesn't turn people around. Inspired by, like.... most of his bossfights.

^B: That trident boomerang thing he does in some 2D games. He throws his trident in a direction, and then teleports to it when you press B again. Teleports and then attacks if you press A. If used in the air, he'll levitate in place until he teleports or it returns to them. If used on the ground, he can move around and use any attacks which aren't trident-based. Does good damage.

vB: Raise (Re)Dead. Summons a ReDead; the summoning locks Ganondorf in place for a second, but if he's knocked out of it late enough the zombie will be summoned anyway. It'll amble across whatever platform it's on, turning back around when it reaches a ledge. If it runs into someone, it'll grapple them, dealing damage and locking them in place for an amount of time determined by how much percent they already have/the opponent's mashing skills. Afterward, the opponent will be let out as if a grab release occurred. Only one can exist at a time; summoning another will cause the previous one to vanish in a puff of shadowsmoke. They can be killed, and have about 15 HP. After being fully summoned, they'll last for about 20 seconds before disappearing naturally.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Unfortunately there are always gonna be close-minded people who will be claiming clones took the spots of other characters.

God, it makes me cringe every time.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Character - Ridley
Stage - Just something amazing from BotW
Mechanic - Individual victory themes and "home" stages for each character (sort of counts)
Rework a character/remove a character - Make Jigglypuff more deadly

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I really just don't see a big-time villain like Ganondorf being reworked to resemble his spin-off title self. Even if Link and Zelda get massive reworks, the reworks will be focused on a mainline title. I feel like we could see a small reference to HW at most within any of the LoZ characters.

 

[Troykv]

Ganondorf moveset is very fun; if they're going to make changes to make him more faithfull to TLOZ, they would mostly work with some aesthetic aspects about their moveset and some attack animations without changing a lot his game style.

 

[SlickWylde]

So, can someone explain why Jonneh actually had insider info? I see people pointing to the fact that he said "This direct is going to be Aces" as confirmation, but didn't we already know they were going to focus on Aces? Or did he predict that much longer before we already knew that?
Also, it seems to me like maybe he was literally saying "It would be cool if they put Ridley in". I know he was hinting at Ridley, but are we sure he was hinting that Ridley was in because he found out, or just that he was hinting at Ridley hoping he'd be in?

(Though I guess either way implies he knew Smash was gonna be in the direct, huh?)

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

What do people think about 'conversation easter eggs' coming back? I.e. the Codec Easter Egg from Brawl and Palutena Guidance Easter Egg from Smash4. Do you think either will return, or will a new one be created? Prehaps Cappy talking about the opponents like he talks about worlds in Odyssey?

Speaking of cappy talking about worlds. Seeing as we have inklings now, maybe there could be a way to have the squid sisters/off the hook appear in their text boxes and talk about each stage. I have no idea how much work that would be creating dialouge for each individual stage instead of for one stage and each character. But I would find that cool. Cappy could also work for that to.

Though a feature involving talking about each character would probably come back either way. Maybe Palutena's guidence will come back along with Palutena's temple. Excpet expanded upon to talk about more characters.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Almost the perfect Ganondorf. Just give him a mashup of different moves from this rather than it being two different sets.

 

[IronTed]

On another note, what are people thinking about in terms of final smash changes?

I would change Falco's from Landmaster to an Arwing. Basically like it is now in terms of function, but more air focused.

 

[Deleted member]

The whole "give Ganondorf a sword" still perplexes me because most of the time it comes from people who complain about "too many swordfighters".
Also, the Black Shadow idea has got to be the most insulting thing I have ever heard as a Ganon main, I doubt anyone would be fine with a new character taking their old main's moveset while they get a new moveset that makes them irrecognizable.

Your kill list will be plentiful indeed.

That's okay, I have plenty of method I want to try out

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

What do people think about 'conversation easter eggs' coming back? I.e. the Codec Easter Egg from Brawl and Palutena Guidance Easter Egg from Smash4. Do you think either will return, or will a new one be created? Prehaps Cappy talking about the opponents like he talks about worlds in Odyssey?

EDIT: Forgot there are Starfox ones too.

Palutena's Guidance was great.

 

[Lord-Zero]

FYI, anyone who says "Ganondorf rework" gets on my kill list.

“Ganondorf rework”.

I'd gladly sign that list.

If there’s one character that could have use a proper rework since Brawl, it was him. (and to an extent, Dark Pit with a moveset entirely based on Uprising).

“Falcondorf” fits his personality? In what alternate universe am I living in? People “happy” or “satisfied” with that moveset are the reason Sakurai is unwilling to change him at all. The custom move was a small step in the right direction but it could go a bit farther than that.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I smell a heated debate coming.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

How many people actually want Ganondorf to fight with a sword? It seems silly to hear around these parts, especially considering how many people think we have too many sword characters. I think an entire set based around dark magic would be optimal for a rework, but personally I only want him to get minimal changes, if any. I would like a better recovery, different neutral B, and a different down B.

 

[IronTed]

So, can someone explain why Jonneh actually had insider info? I see people pointing to the fact that he said "This direct is going to be Aces" as confirmation, but didn't we already know they were going to focus on Aces? Or did he predict that much longer before we already knew that?
Also, it seems to me like maybe he was literally saying "It would be cool if they put Ridley in". I know he was hinting at Ridley, but are we sure he was hinting that Ridley was in because he found out, or just that he was hinting at Ridley hoping he'd be in?

(Though I guess either way implies he knew Smash was gonna be in the direct, huh?)

He said the Aces bit before Aces was announced. That's very specific, and for him to do something similar again would imply he's leaking again. It's the way he does it. It's not a cut and dry thing, and leaves him an out in case he's wrong (that's my speculation, but it's easy to see why).

Edit: Not to say he is 100 percent right or anything (that should go without saying).

 

[IsmaR]

For everyone citing HW Ganondorf (specifically it just being "Sword Ganon"), the actual attacks Ganondorf uses aren't just with said greatswords. His strong attack is almost essentially the ground quake/shockwave "punch" from OoT, half his specials involve using magic (typically in the form of channeling Dark Beast Ganon), and Trident Ganondorf even uses a lot of physical combat moves not involving the weapon (he has a shoulder bash almost identical to Smash's dash attack, an uppercut where he coats his arm with dark magic, and a projectile similar to Deadman's Volley).

I think Smash Ganondorf is fun to play/shouldn't be completely forgotten, but like most, it does leave a sense of yearning for all the potential. Even that custom move in Smash 4 with the Warlock Swordpunch felt gratifying.

 

[AadmM]

Honestly "Falcondorf" wouldn't be a problem if not for Captain Falcon having that moveset first.

But I will never not dream of blue Pig Ganon taking his spot regardless...

 

[IronTed]

Honestly "Falcondorf" wouldn't be a problem if not for Captain Falcon having that moveset first.

But I will never not dream of blue Pig Ganon taking his spot regardless...

That's interesting. Making Ganon playable would seem to appease both camps, at least to some degree. Not like Ganondorf's final smash is beloved or anything, either.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Almost the perfect Ganondorf. Just give him a mashup of different moves from this rather than it being two different sets.

It's unbelievably uncreative. If he's just gonna slash his sword like Marth, he may as well stay a Captain Falcon clones.

He deserves better than that in the next game.

 

[T-Hell]

What about they leave Ganondorf as it is but create another Ganondorf based on HW or BotW with a more unique moveset. It would be weird having 2 Ganondorfs, sure, but it's not like we don't technically have 2 Marios, 2 Pits and 2 Links. Key word "technically", I know Dark Pit it's supposed to be another person so don't bash me on that lol.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That's interesting. Making Ganon playable would seem to appease both camps, at least to some degree. Not like Ganondorf's final smash is beloved or anything, either.

I don't think so. I think most people would rather play as Ganondorf and complain that he was cut. Ganon is more of a final wrath kind of thing you only see at the end of the game. Not exactly a character that should be a playable, so having him as a Final Smash would be better.

 

[geoluminescent]

The whole "give Ganondorf a sword" still perplexes me because most of the time it comes from people who complain about "too many swordfighters".
Also, the Black Shadow idea has got to be the most insulting thing I have ever heard as a Ganon main, I doubt anyone would be fine with a new character taking their old main's moveset while they get a new moveset that makes them irrecognizable.

I usually play Ganon, lmao. He's honestly my best character; I only have Samus in my profile because she's one of my favorite Nintendo characters in general. Ganon's moveset, as fun as it is to play, just never fit the character using it. Black Shadow fits it much better, and I know he'd have a really fun hammy-ass personality.

 

[Curious Villager]

Speaking of Ganondorf, now that I think about it, if he gets a redesign that reflects the style of BotW, what would they do with his Final Smash? I suppose they can just turn him into Calamity Beast Ganon of that game and have him charge out as usual but still...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What about they leave Ganondorf as it is but create another Ganondorf based on HW or BotW with a more unique moveset. It would be weird having 2 Ganondorfs, sure, but it's not like we don't technically have 2 Marios, 2 Pits and 2 Links. Key word "technically", I know Dark Pit it's supposed to be another person so don't bash me on that lol.

It's not he same thing as having 2 Marios, 2 Pits and 2 Links. Those characters have their own identity and traits, but you're suggesting having the exact same character twice, but with a different move set. It'd be like suggesting we keep Young Link & Toon Link or Luigi & Luigi with a poltergust.