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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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With that said, he can still be an anti-hero, but not every anti-hero is gonna be like him. There's more than one mold for the trope, y'know.
I understand that, I was just using what the trope originally meant and was used for(if you look at the page, you'll see there are A LOT of variations).

I think the best way to describe the classical Anti-Hero is with the page's quote
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right."
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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I understand that, I was just using what the trope originally meant and was used for(if you look at the page, you'll see there are A LOT of variations).

I think the best way to describe the classical Anti-Hero is with the page's quote
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right."
Exactly! "Classical" Anti-Hero.

By using that word, you're inplying that there are different variants, which you also said. And Wario definitely fits one of them for all the reasons everyone else said.

Also, I just realized that your example of Batman "working against the law" doesn't work because he often works with Lieutenant Gordon, chief of Gotham's police force. Heck, that's how the Bat-signal is usually used!
 

Lyndis_

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Not to purposely rain on anyone's parade, but I somewhat feel like this anti-hero thing has gone fairly off-topic. Doesn't even really relate to Smash on Switch anymore. :surprised:

I know I'm not the first to say this but calling it: they said bayo won ballot but in reality, they wanted to save the more likely winners for smash switch. I mean, why else did they completely avoid telling us the top 10, or even 5?
I do agree that's probably what they did, however even if they haven't there was no way they were going to tell us anyways. It would create a lot of upset in the community knowing specifically who was so close, who did better than Bayo in certain places, who Nintendo considered undoable, etc;

Also just the copyright issue of even mentioning a lot of the characters in official things unaffiliated might have been a problem for them.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I know I'm not the first to say this but calling it: they said bayo won ballot but in reality, they wanted to save the more likely winners for smash switch. I mean, why else did they completely avoid telling us the top 10, or even 5?
Because Smash fans are a rabid bunch and you don't want people going "**** YOU MY CHARACTER BARELY LOST FROM BAYONETTA" or "YOU'RE AN IDIOT YOUR CHARACTER DIDN'T MAKE THE TOP 10 SO FORGET ABOUT IT"
 

?????????????

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I do agree that's probably what they did, however even if they haven't there was no way they were going to tell us anyways. It would create a lot of upset in the community knowing specifically who was so close, who did better than Bayo in certain places, who Nintendo considered undoable, etc;

Also just the copyright issue of even mentioning a lot of the characters in official things unaffiliated might have been a problem for them.
My theory was that certain characters like K. Rool that might have stood a chance had votes "taken away" by choices that were impossible, i.e. Banjo-Kazooie. I remember there was a HUGE push for Banjo during the ballot, and they might've seen that as an "impossibility," thus resulting in many wasted votes that probably WOULD'VE gone to K. Rool (Banjo and DK fanbases tend to be around the same people).

Additionally, other characters that were pushed, like Shovel Knight, were really only popular in one region, so they suffered in worldwide votes. If I remember correctly, Jibanyan garnered a lot of interest in Japan around that time, but not in other regions.

Ultimately, this led to the ballot winner being an overall less popular character who was known throughout the world. But this is entirely speculative theory on my part. I don't think they would've done something intentionally underhanded.
 
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Opossum

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Exactly! "Classical" Anti-Hero.

By using that word, you're inplying that there are different variants, which you also said. And Wario definitely fits one of them for all the reasons everyone else said.

Also, I just realized that your example of Batman "working against the law" doesn't work because he often works with Lieutenant Gordon, chief of Gotham's police force. Heck, that's how the Bat-signal is usually used!
There is another variant of anti-hero, but it's fairly archaic. Historically, before the modern age, anti-hero basically described main protagonists who weren't strong/manly/some degree of Herculean. These qualities were expected at the time, so heroes outside of this were actually the original definition of an antihero.

The whole "righteousness over morality" definition more folks are familiar with is much more recent.
 

Chron

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Speaking of fighting villains, I really miss boss fights and the boss rush mode from Subspace Emissary. Maybe even more than the main mode itself...

I would seriously love for something like that to return.

Being able to fight Porky, Meta-Ridley, and Petey whenever was amazing... and the sheer size of some of the bosses felt so great fighting them in Smash.

You know what I want back? 15 minute Melee.
 

Fazesupernappa

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I know it won't happen, but I think it would be cool if it was a teams game in the sense of stuff like mvc, where you have assists and switch ins, it would also be a cool play on the potential name of smash switch.
 

GroundZero996

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What are the chances of the Real break the targets coming back in this game, each character gets there own stage, awesome music, etc.
I could see a generic stage but if the character count is anything like it was in Smash 4 I doubt that they will be unique.

I would love to see race to the finish come back though.

I know it won't happen, but I think it would be cool if it was a teams game in the sense of stuff like mvc, where you have assists and switch ins, it would also be a cool play on the potential name of smash switch.
Like an Iron Man/ Tag Team mode? That's a popular idea, I could see it getting into Smash eventually.
 
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D

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Ok, this will be my last post on this topic. If anyone wants to continue it(because I have a lot of fun discussing writing tropes), let's move it to the Social.
Exactly! "Classical" Anti-Hero.

By using that word, you're inplying that there are different variants, which you also said. And Wario definitely fits one of them for all the reasons everyone else said.

Also, I just realized that your example of Batman "working against the law" doesn't work because he often works with Lieutenant Gordon, chief of Gotham's police force. Heck, that's how the Bat-signal is usually used!
See, the issue is that all these variations come from the misinterpretation of the trope. Nowadays, if you say anti-hero, people are likely to think it's the "edgy guy" that most stories use.
While the an anti-hero can certainly also be the edgy type(just look at Dark Pit), the two are not related.
There is another variant of anti-hero, but it's fairly archaic. Historically, before the modern age, anti-hero basically described main protagonists who weren't strong/manly/some degree of Herculean. These qualities were expected at the time, so heroes outside of this were actually the original definition of an antihero.

The whole "righteousness over morality" definition more folks are familiar with is much more recent.
Fittingly enough, Batman still falls under this, at least in the context of his own universe.
While Physical Gods are running around in the DC universe, Batman is just some guy in a bat costume with a ****load of money.
 
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GroundZero996

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Fittingly enough, Batman still falls under this, at least in the context of his own universe.
While Physical Gods are running around in the DC universe, Batman is just some guy in a bat costume with a ****load of money.
Haven't been following this, but was Batman one of DC's first Heroes? Maybe in the meta of heroes at the time he was kinda the antihero, but in his universe he only recently fits that moniker, no?
 
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Opossum

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I think we should focus on getting one stage for target smash this time, never mind fifty. :p
 

Kirby Dragons

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I'm probably the only one who likes transformation characters. I like the character archetype, but I also hate it when multiple versions of a character are playable as different slots.

However, I think I want Charizard to stay its own character.
 
D

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Ok, how about this for a transformation character? Kiran, as what would basically be Pokemon Trainer 2.0.
Instead of the other idea of him being a Summoner-type of fighter, have him stay in the background and act as the Tactician for the Order of Heroes.
Alphonse, Sharena and Anna, each with a different weapon, with Down B being used to switch between them.
Alphonse is slow but strong, focused on killing moves.
Sharena is the balanced one, having better reach than the other two.
Anna is the agile but frail one, being good at racking up damage.

Also, Lance and Axe users because it's long due.
 

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Ok, how about this for a transformation character? Kiran, as what would basically be Pokemon Trainer 2.0.
Instead of the other idea of him being a Summoner-type of fighter, have him stay in the background and act as the Tactician for the Order of Heroes.
Alphonse, Sharena and Anna, each with a different weapon, with Down B being used to switch between them.
Alphonse is slow but strong, focused on killing moves.
Sharena is the balanced one, having better reach than the other two.
Anna is the agile but frail one, being good at racking up damage.

Also, Lance and Axe users because it's long due.
Honestly I'd rather just have the Breidablik as an item.
 

Lyndis_

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Have you guys discussed this yet?:

http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/208373047/smash-switch-leaks

It is pretty interesting in regards to moveset overhauls. I would hate for the transformation thing to come back tbh, I love all the specials for Zelda and Sheik.
We did, I'm pretty sure the common consensus here is that it's a load of balogna

Personally, I think it's a load of balogna.
No real evidence for anything and a lot of the changes would be horrible in the game.

Just one of those "I'll say whatever I want and people will share it anyways" leaks.
 
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BluePikmin11

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I see, what page of this thread was it discussed? I could use further context. I would imagine most of the previous pages would consist of Ridley discussion. So I would not really know where the convo began.
 

GolisoPower

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Have you guys discussed this yet?:

http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/208373047/smash-switch-leaks

It is pretty interesting in regards to moveset overhauls. I would hate for the transformation thing to come back tbh, I love all the specials for Zelda and Sheik.
That's pretty interesting...I mean, giving Wolf a Ginyu Force-style move and Ganondorf being more like his HW incarnation? Seems nice, but I'm gonna need a few grains of salt on this one...
 

Morbi

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When do you guys think this game started development?
Around when people were posting that job listing. I cannot remember when exactly, but likely before DLC was even developed for Smash Wii U. They might have even had joint negotiations with third-party characters such as "Cloud appears in Super Smash Brothers for 3DS and Wii U, and Nintendo Switch versions. Or something to that effect. I bet that would excite a lot of people if it were true.
 

BluePikmin11

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Around when people were posting that job listing. I cannot remember when exactly, but likely before DLC was even developed for Smash Wii U. They might have even had joint negotiations with third-party characters such as "Cloud appears in Super Smash Brothers for 3DS and Wii U, and Nintendo Switch versions. Or something to that effect. I bet that would excite a lot of people if it were true.
That theory ignites very interesting discussion. The job listings and the contracts... perhaps this further show that Smash Switch is a port to some degree. That would also possibly indicate that every Smash 4 veteran could be returning.
 

SlickWylde

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So far, I think every leak that started off with "Believe it or not, I don't care" have been fake 100% of the time.
 
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Morbi

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So far, I think every leak that started off with "Believe it or not, I don't care" have been fake 100% of the time.
In general, most people purposely leaking information more or less want people to believe them. You have to think about their motive and usually it is reputation related. Someone who does not care does not have any reason to leak and therefore you have to question why they would do it. Occam's razor implies it is the same reason people fake leaks, to fool people.
 

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Honestly I'd rather just have the Breidablik as an item.
So essentially a Pokéball with FE characters? I like it.

Just for fun: any other series which would have any items with similar functionality? All that comes to mind are the Core Crystals from XC2 which grant Blades.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Based on the contractual obligations of the 3rd parties, and the timing of the DLC releases/beginning of development on Smash Switch it definitely makes it seem like a lot of the characters could make their way to the Switch game.

Or at least I’d like to think.

Like, if development for the Switch game started before the DLC was even finished, why bother getting a contract for one game? That seems silly. Or even to develop content for a game you’re going to abandon and work on a replacement for within the following year. It all just seems strange to me.

I may be overthinking it, but i’m going to cautiously believe this is a 4.5 or 5.5 until I get utter irrefutable evidence of it being brand new.
 
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TheLastJinjo

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It's been on my mind that even if Sakurai had knowledge or concept art of Spring Man, that we still might not be getting an Arms character. With Fire Emblem and Pokemon, you already know that the series they are from is successful and it's important to have the newest character in the series, but I think it's different when you're talking about a brand new IP that won't be released for another year, with no idea whether it will be successful or not, or even notable by Nintendo fans.

It's still possible for Spring Man & Ribbon Girl to be added late in development, but I doubt they were included assuming the roster was decided in 2016.
 

Morbi

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It's been on my mind that even if Sakurai had knowledge or concept art of Spring Man, that we still might not be getting an Arms character. With Fire Emblem and Pokemon, you already know that the series they are from is successful and it's important to have the newest character in the series, but I think it's different when you're talking about a brand new IP that won't be released for another year, with no idea whether it will be successful or not, or even notable by Nintendo fans.

It's still possible for Spring Man & Ribbon Girl to be added late in development, but I doubt they were included assuming the roster was decided in 2016.
I believe that in the case of Arms and its relative success, even if he was not planned from the very beginning, he would still be developed. So even if they took a wait and see approach, there would be plenty of time regardless. Like, why wouldn't they? It is not as though they have many other candidates that people, especially Switch owners, would really latch onto.
 

?????????????

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It's been on my mind that even if Sakurai had knowledge or concept art of Spring Man, that we still might not be getting an Arms character. With Fire Emblem and Pokemon, you already know that the series they are from is successful and it's important to have the newest character in the series, but I think it's different when you're talking about a brand new IP that won't be released for another year, with no idea whether it will be successful or not, or even notable by Nintendo fans.

It's still possible for Spring Man & Ribbon Girl to be added late in development, but I doubt they were included assuming the roster was decided in 2016.
Yeah, I'm still not sold on an ARMS character being an inevitability. I'd really LIKE it, but to me, that'd be like if they added Captain Olimar back in Melee.

...I could see it going either way.
 

AadmM

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I feel like an ARMS character is necessary (and expected) for a couple reasons:

1) It's a new IP, and regardless of unknowns regarding its success at the time, of course they're gonna want to promote it as heavily as they can, and we've seen with Fire Emblem how powerful Smash is in that regard.

2) This game will inevitably overshadow ARMS completely as THE Nintendo fighting game if they don't put someone in. Regardless of how different they are. It would behoove them to bring attention back to it by having someone rep it on the roster!
 

Morbi

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Yeah, I'm still not sold on an ARMS character being an inevitability. I'd really LIKE it, but to me, that'd be like if they added Captain Olimar back in Melee.

...I could see it going either way.
There is a huge difference between Pikmin and Arms. I remember with Guardians of the Galaxy, everyone thought it was such a huge risk, and lo and behold, end credits "Guardians will return" and shortly after release, within the week if I recall, James Gunn was talking about the sequel and might have even implied he already started writing it, it has been awhile. My point is, there is a big difference between a legitimate risk (apparently a Wrinkle in Time, ha ha) and a "controlled" risk. The marketing for Arms was about the same as Splatoon. Either Nintendo knew they had something, or they wanted to MAKE it something. In the former, why not include him in Smash? Cross promotion is an inherent benefit. If not? Well, it proved itself.
 

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So essentially a Pokéball with FE characters? I like it.

Just for fun: any other series which would have any items with similar functionality? All that comes to mind are the Core Crystals from XC2 which grant Blades.
Animal Buddy Crates for Donkey Kong as well.

The fact that we don't have Rambi as an Assist yet makes me sad.
 

Ninka_kiwi

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I'm lowkey hoping for a fatal frame character since nintendo owns (?) the series now and there could be cool ghost attacks and wild camera stuff. A command grab thats just taking a picture and a ghost appears behind your opponent grabbing them is literally an idea ive had since sm4sh and I'm still into it

You'd also get another female character with a unique moveset and thats always fun
 
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?????????????

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I've just become really cautious. The only newcomers I was about 100% expecting were Inklings and a new Pokemon.

I think Spring Man is likely.
 
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TheLastJinjo

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I feel like an ARMS character is necessary (and expected) for a couple reasons:

1) It's a new IP, and regardless of unknowns regarding its success at the time, of course they're gonna want to promote it as heavily as they can, and we've seen with Fire Emblem how powerful Smash is in that regard.

2) This game will inevitably overshadow ARMS completely as THE Nintendo fighting game if they don't put someone in. Regardless of how different they are. It would behoove them to bring attention back to it by having someone rep it on the roster!
You're saying this from the perspective of someone who lives in 2018. The roster was likely decided in 2016 and just like we didn't get Olimar in Melee or Wii Fit Trainer in Brawl, it's very possible we won't get Spring Man or Ribbon Girl.
 
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