Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

Honestly I think a lot of the backlash just stems from people holding an unpopular opinion, and people wanting to stop others from going against the grain.

Like for example, I'm really not crazy about the prospect of Waddle Dee getting in. There are around three other Kirby characters I'd prefer to see first, and hell, at least three other lance users in general I'd prefer to see. Pretty much the only positive for me is that my brother kind of wants him.

People can go against the popular opinion and not be a troll.

I-is that...Finally someone with reasons? N-no way? In my smash threads? B-b-but...I-i-i though my opinion was ultime! A-and since everyone share it... Argh! I refuse to believe that someone can have another Opinion than miiine!

 

[Pakky]

I-is that...Finally someone with reasons? N-no way? In my smash threads? B-b-but...I-i-i though my opinion was ultime! A-and since everyone share it... Argh! I refuse to believe that someone can have another Opinion than miiine!

0/10 Sora's feet are too big for Smash...

 

[CosmicQuark]

It’s clear Sakurai sees assists as valid representation - particularly for niche characters who may not be well-known in all regions or those who he couldn't come up with a full moveset.

Yes, there are some (Midna) that I’d rather were playable, but most are still part of the game. But thay also has to do with the fact that I’m a huge Zelda fan, and seeing unique playable characters for my favorite series is more important to me than seeing random items. Other assists, however, I have no problem with as assists.

It does seem interesting to me how many people here consider assists the worst thing in the world - to the extent that they’d rather a character be ignored completely than granted an assist. A lot seems to come from the “I don’t play with items, so then I’ll never see them.” One, that sound like you’re putting limitations on yourself and ignoring parts of the game, and two, the rule that DLC promotions is impossible is as much a fanrule as ‘we won’t get a second character from the same third-party company’. Unlikely, but not explicitly denied.

I do wish there was an item switch for assists though so you could play a match like the Melee event where Electrode was the only Pokéball or somethig though. Or so you could set your favorite assist character to the only one so you’d see them more often.

Yeah, I agree with all of that. Particularly that Sakurai doesn't view assists as a bad thing--to him, it allows more representation for characters who would otherwise not get in. I think echoes, while perhaps not as prevalent as we initially thought, was perhaps in response to that and gave another way to represent more characters. It is a silly fan rule that assists would never be promoted in DLC--though, there's still some truth in that if Sakurai didn't think they were suitable enough to be in the roster, it may not change until planning the next game. Or maybe not! I think that despite having a goal in mind and thinking of assists as more representation, he also listens to fan feedback and may take it into consideration.

 

[Nekoo]

0/10 Sora's feet are too big for Smash...

Better reasons than "Disney is evil" . Sora is officialy deconfirmed. Pack-it up boy.

 

[Deleted member]

0/10 Sora's feet are too big for Smash...

And his nipples.

Like damn son, that ain't natural :V

 

[Deleted member]

Another reason I want Octolings is because I want Octo Expansion music in Smash.

This song is probably the best thing Nintendo's put out all year for me. Especially at 2:00... AAAAA It's so good!

 

[osby]

Yeah, I agree with all of that. Particularly that Sakurai doesn't view assists as a bad thing--to him, it allows more representation for characters who would otherwise not get in. I think echoes, while perhaps not as prevalent as we initially thought, was perhaps in response to that and gave another way to represent more characters. It is a silly fan rule that assists would never be promoted in DLC--though, there's still some truth in that if Sakurai didn't think they were suitable enough to be in the roster, it may not change until planning the next game. Or maybe not! I think that despite having a goal in mind and thinking of assists as more representation, he also listens to fan feedback and may take it into consideration.

Characters that were Assist Trophies became playable in next iterations on multiple occasions, it's not a fan rule.

What fan made is, however, is the "promotion" concept.

 

[The Slayer]

Honestly I think a lot of the backlash just stems from people holding an unpopular opinion, and people wanting to stop others from going against the grain.

Like for example, I'm really not crazy about the prospect of Waddle Dee getting in. There are around three other Kirby characters I'd prefer to see first, and hell, at least three other lance users in general I'd prefer to see. Pretty much the only positive for me is that my brother kind of wants him.

People can go against the popular opinion and not be a troll.

But you can't spew nonsense while having an unpopular opinion. You don't want to have (Bandana) Waddle Dee in? I don't either! But I not going to say because it's basically a Goomba with a hat because it's not a rational reason for it (heck, even with your reason is fine). With reasons like that, it's just either being misinformed (which I'm hoping this guy is) or straight up trolling.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I still can't see him as an assist even if he's a niche character.

He'd be the only third-party Mario character, and I'm sure when Sakurai says "a lot of requests" he knows those people's requests are for him to be playable.

I can, however, see Mallow as an assist, unless we assume he'd be the only SMRPG character instead of Geno.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Better reasons than "Disney is evil" . Sora is officialy deconfirmed. Pack-it up boy.

Didn’t stop Ryu.

 

[PsySmasher]

I wonder if Waddle Dee might end up being a Assist Trophy?

.

But in all seriousness, it's entirely possible.
Assist trophy revival for DLC Nintendo? (just give me Ashley and Lyn pls)


On the Advance Wars discussion, I think there is a very small chance that the series can get a rep. Mainly because:

1. There are very few characters left to be revealed for this game. With the trend of characters being revealed being very popular ballot choices and very popular modern day characters (Inklings & Isabelle), I doubt an AW rep would take priority. Even over other series that haven't gotten reps like Rhythm Heaven, Chibi-Robo, or ARMS.

2. I highly doubt one will be DLC, since I don't think they'll be prime candidates for making extra money.

WaxPython You are entirely entitled to your opinion. However, it's not right to refute legitimate counterarguments against an AW rep. Especially when some of the evidence you provide isn't grounded in fact. Even though you may not like the fact of the Octolings getting in, there is a very reasonable chance of them getting in based on Splatoon's popularity (Inklings were the first newcomers revealed) and the fact they would be echo fighters, in comparison to a full-fledged newcomer.

This is coming from someone who is indifferent to both series.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Characters that were Assist Trophies became playable in next iterations on multiple occasions, it's not a fan rule.

What fan made is, however, is the "promotion" concept.

I was referring to the no DLC promotion concept as the fan rule. Unless I missed something, perhaps I could have made that clearer.

 

[staindgrey]

When have games sites EVER been honest about anything. Too much water is a meme for a reason. And thats where I shall leave this subject.

IGN idiocy aside, game reviews are helpful to find trends and determine if you want to buy a game. Arguing review scores is a complete waste of everyone's time. For instance, I read probably six reviews of Assassin's Creed Odyssey before picking it up, since I'm not really an AC fan, but everything I saw about the game made it look like "The Witcher but in Greece". After seeing the RPG aspects and conversation system and style of combat all praised in multiple articles, I decided to buy it. The number at the bottom of the review didn't mean ****.

It's why I like Kotaku's setup of no score; just a review that doesn't build up to an arbitrary numeric scale. I wish more sites adopted it.

 

[Deleted member]

Me @ this thread:

We arguing they can't just make the font size smaller?

yikes

It's not about font size, it's about the font itself.

there's no reason to expect it will be exactly the same.

Yes there is. That's literally what everyone should expect from every game trailer they see.

We just never had an example of a demo build prior to a third party announcement.

Literally the Smash 4 demo lol

I pointed out earlier, conceding, that for the Brawl demo build, Konami was included despite Snake not being in the demo (but it came out after he was announced). I conceded that point. But to say "there's no room for any more copyright so no more new companies" is a stretch, because there's many alternatives. I gave you one example. That's all.

You still didn't explain WHY they would change the font though

It's on my watchlist but I gotten around to it, as well as Dragon Pilot. I'm Trying to catch up with Voltron. The Dragon Prince is great show as well too

Hope for Lyn for DLC? Most likely not. Not expecting it of course, but I'm hopeful.

I watched Dragon Prince, it's really good though I'm not a fan of the animation. And Dragon Pilot is also on my To Watch list but I'm supposed to watch it with my girlfriend and we haven't gotten to doing that yet.

 

[staindgrey]

Another reason I want Octolings is because I want Octo Expansion music in Smash.

This song is probably the best thing Nintendo's put out all year for me. Especially at 2:00... AAAAA It's so good!

I can get behind that!

...but for this song.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I still can't see him as an assist even if he's a niche character.

He'd be the only third-party Mario character, and I'm sure when Sakurai says "a lot of requests" he knows those people's requests are for him to be playable.

I can, however, see Mallow as an assist, unless we assume he'd be the only SMRPG character instead of Geno.

Man, Mallow as a character and Geno as a AT will really be salty for the Smash community.

Still, I am baffled of why Mallow is so ignored while Geno got so much attention? Mallow is the first to join with Mario and stayed there longer than Geno! He played a bigger role here.

Why is he shafted? Is it because of his design..?

Maybe it actually is. He looks like a freaking cupcake or a Kirby character than a Mario character really...

 

[Pakky]

Better reasons than "Disney is evil" . Sora is officialy deconfirmed. Pack-it up boy.

Lowkey though (pun HA) Kingdom Key probably ain't making it unless that Mickey is taken off. Though a Smash Keyblade would be dank, and fitting.

 

[The Slayer]

Man, Mallow as a character and Geno as a AT will really be salty for the Smash community.

Still, I am baffled of why Mallow is so ignored while Geno got so much attention? Mallow is the first to join with Mario and stayed there longer than Geno! He played a bigger role here.

Why is he shafted? Is it because of his design..? Actually, he looks like a cupcake or a Kirby character than Geno though.

Well, not sure about Mallow. But for Geno (from what I remember), he's the "edge" character of the group and does crazy damage as the game goes on.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Geno Whirl

- 9999 damage

Banned from tournaments

cowards

 

[Deleted member]

Reninder there's a difference between not wanting something and parading your hatred around.
"I don't want more Splatoon content" is different from "I hope there's no more Splatoon content because it sucks and one playable character is all it needs"

Man, Mallow as a character and Geno as a AT will really be salty for the Smash community.

Still, I am baffled of why Mallow is so ignored while Geno got so much attention? Mallow is the first to join with Mario and stayed there longer than Geno! He played a bigger role here.

Why is he shafted? Is it because of his design..? Actually, he looks like a cupcake or a Kirby character than Geno though.

Why do you think Geno is popular in the first place? It's because he's literally designed to be "cool". And since nothing in Mario really looks "cool", he wins by default.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Typically in a debate, the person tasked with proving their side is the one who says something can happen.

If you propose, for example, that the text a game is using can be changed over time, it is YOUR job to prove that. You can’t say, “PROVE IT CAN’T HAPPEN”, because that’s not nearly the same thing.

In a murder trial, the prosecution is charged with making their case. The prosecution can’t walk in, listen to the defense team and then say, “YOU CANT’T PROVE HE DIDN’T COMMIT THE MURDER, SO THERE”.

That’s not how it works. The person who makes the claim has to prove the claim they’re making.

 

[Flyboy]

Geno is the Boba Fett of the Smash fandom. He struck a chord with people because he looks cool and fan demand keeps him alive.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just an amusing comparison.

 

[Nekoo]

If you propose, for example, that the text a game is using can be changed over time, it is YOUR job to prove that. You can’t say, “PROVE IT CAN’T HAPPEN”, because that’s not nearly the same thing.

What about just saying "E3 Wii U demo and the final game had a different title screen, front size and placement compared tot he final version?"

That would be enough proof right?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Typically in a debate, the person tasked with proving their side is the one who says something can happen.

If you propose, for example, that the text a game is using can be changed over time, it is YOUR job to prove that. You can’t say, “PROVE IT CAN’T HAPPEN”, because that’s not nearly the same thing.

In a murder trial, the prosecution is charged with making their case. The prosecution can’t walk in, listen to the defense team and then say, “YOU CANT’T PROVE HE DIDN’T COMMIT THE MURDER, SO THERE”.

That’s not how it works. The person who makes the claim has to prove the claim they’re making.

Yeah but you can't so there

 

[CosmicQuark]

Yes there is. That's literally what everyone should expect from every game trailer they see.

We're talking about demos, not the trailer. If we're talking about the trailers...

The closest I could find was this:

It's from the end of Smash 4's first trailer, but it's still not from a Demo or Menu.

Guess Bandai Namco didn't have a character in Smash 4. Weird, given they made it.

Literally the Smash 4 demo lol

The Smash 4 demo came out after Pac-Man was announced. Unless there's another third party character that was announced after him. Hope it was Banjo.

You still didn't explain WHY they would change the font though

The why I don't think I need to explain--they would not include companies not yet announced. Unless you mean why make the font that big--beats me. Guess there's going to be no DLC as well, as it's been demonstrably proven font sizes can't change.

EDIT:

Typically in a debate, the person tasked with proving their side is the one who says something can happen.

If you propose, for example, that the text a game is using can be changed over time, it is YOUR job to prove that. You can’t say, “PROVE IT CAN’T HAPPEN”, because that’s not nearly the same thing.

In a murder trial, the prosecution is charged with making their case. The prosecution can’t walk in, listen to the defense team and then say, “YOU CANT’T PROVE HE DIDN’T COMMIT THE MURDER, SO THERE”.

That’s not how it works. The person who makes the claim has to prove the claim they’re making.

The burden of proof rests on the person making the positive claim. I am not claiming that there has to be more characters from new companies. It started with someone saying the copyright fitting the entire screen meant no more characters from new companies. I doubt that as a good reason, and I gave an alternative explanation. That's not the claim I, or anyone else for that matter, is making.

 

[Pyra]

They SHOULDN'T hurt my feelings but if it was Geno it absolutely would. Since I play competitive I barely ever see ATs.

Just trying to stay positive.
Next step is to convince comp to include assist trophies. C'mon, you know you want to.
Moon > your finesse

I’m in Draconian mode using Veronica and Serena with Weapons instead of wands.

Veronica is actually legit with Whips.

I bet. I have everyone at level 99 right now and am considering swapping the sisters to weapons just for funsies.

 

[Flyboy]

Just trying to stay positive.
Next step is to convince comp to include assist trophies. C'mon, you know you want to.
Moon > your finesse



I bet. I have everyone at level 99 right now and am considering swapping the sisters to weapons just for funsies.

Personally, I don't feel competitive can be truly considered competitive until you can tech Kapp'n's murder bus.

 

[google chrom]

Was the Master Chief "leak" discussed at all yet?

 

[Fenriraga]

Honestly I think a lot of the backlash just stems from people holding an unpopular opinion, and people wanting to stop others from going against the grain.

Like for example, I'm really not crazy about the prospect of Waddle Dee getting in. There are around three other Kirby characters I'd prefer to see first, and hell, at least three other lance users in general I'd prefer to see. Pretty much the only positive for me is that my brother kind of wants him.

People can go against the popular opinion and not be a troll.

Not particularly wanting a certain character or more representation from a certain series is fine. You know full well how much flack Fire Emblem gets in that regard, even though I'd still kill for Lyn and you'd likely do the same for Celica.

The problem, for me, comes from when someone tries to rationalize WHY that character or series shouldn't get in/get another character. Case and point, I don't really want another Pokemon Rep, because I'm really on and off with the series and I personally never really feel new Pokemon really bring that much to the table compared to other fighters. Do I fully expect another Pokemon rep, and completely understand why it would get one? Totally. And that's fine, I'll live.

HOWEVER, there is a big difference between "I don't really want this in Smash" and "This shouldn't be in Smash because of X". The Splatoon argument I'm seeing is absolutely a case of the former. Not to say someone can not like the idea of a character making it- goodness knows we deal with that enough whenever Steve comes up- but trying to rationalize WHY something is a bad idea, especially with something like "Review Scores" is just silly. No one is going to judge you if you don't want or don't care for someone making it in. Trying to justify why your stance on it is "factual" is where issues come around.

 

[Deleted member]

We're talking about demos, not the trailer. If we're talking about the trailers...

Guess Bandai Namco didn't have a character in Smash 4. Weird, given they made it.

Thanks for deliberately missing my whole point. Because yes, the trademarks at the end of trailers are clearly ingame footage.

The Smash 4 demo came out after Pac-Man was announced. Unless there's another third party character that was announced after him. Hope it was Banjo.

Pac-Man was announced after the E3 booths were opened

The why I don't think I need to explain--they would not include companies not yet announced. Unless you mean why make the font that big--beats me. Guess there's going to be no DLC as well, as it's been demonstrably proven font sizes can't change.

You. Still. Haven't. Explained. Why. They. Would. Change. The. Font. To. Fit. Text. They. Already. Know. Would. Need. To. Be. In.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Just trying to stay positive.
Next step is to convince comp to include assist trophies. C'mon, you know you want to.
Moon > your finesse



I bet. I have everyone at level 99 right now and am considering swapping the sisters to weapons just for funsies.

Twin Dragon Lash is so strong. Like gee whiz. Do it. It’s fun. I like them more that way. They aren’t better, but they are funner(to me.)

 

[KingofKoopas]

IGN idiocy aside, game reviews are helpful to find trends and determine if you want to buy a game. Arguing review scores is a complete waste of everyone's time. For instance, I read probably six reviews of Assassin's Creed Odyssey before picking it up, since I'm not really an AC fan, but everything I saw about the game made it look like "The Witcher but in Greece". After seeing the RPG aspects and conversation system and style of combat all praised in multiple articles, I decided to buy it. The number at the bottom of the review didn't mean ****.

It's why I like Kotaku's setup of no score; just a review that doesn't build up to an arbitrary numeric scale. I wish more sites adopted it.

Its more than IGN and its more than the number scores i got issues with but I am keeping my trap shut for the sake of keeping peace

Basically because...

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Reninder there's a difference between not wanting something and parading your hatred around.
"I don't want more Splatoon content" is different from "I hope there's no more Splatoon content because it sucks and one playable character is all it needs"

Why do you think Geno is popular in the first place? It's because he's literally designed to be "cool". And since nothing in Mario really looks "cool", he wins by default.

Actually, I don't know, but him as a character grew as a cult following and the creator acknowledge this saying:

I only found out about Geno's popularity later, So I got him to make a reappearance in SuperStar Saga
- Chihiro Fujioka
Director of SMRPG.

Source is from Did You Know Gaming.

I wouldn't mind having Mallow in. I just wanted a new SMRPG character or some representation to this game really.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Was the Master Chief "leak" discussed at all yet?

Already shot down. Move along.

 

[google chrom]

Already shot down. Move along.

lol okay thank you

 

[Dcas]

Typically in a debate, the person tasked with proving their side is the one who says something can happen.

If you propose, for example, that the text a game is using can be changed over time, it is YOUR job to prove that. You can’t say, “PROVE IT CAN’T HAPPEN”, because that’s not nearly the same thing.

In a murder trial, the prosecution is charged with making their case. The prosecution can’t walk in, listen to the defense team and then say, “YOU CANT’T PROVE HE DIDN’T COMMIT THE MURDER, SO THERE”.

That’s not how it works. The person who makes the claim has to prove the claim they’re making.

You are asking and expecting too much from this thread lol, people throwing claims because "its fun" without any further argument.

 

[Pyra]

Twin Dragon Lash is so strong. Like gee whiz. Do it. It’s fun. I like them more that way. They aren’t better, but they are funner(to me.)

Veronica and Serena dual character for Smash when

 

[dezeray112]

I take that nothing new has been going on lately.

 

[Pakky]

Its more than IGN and its more than the number scores i got issues with but I am keeping my trap shut for the sake of keeping peace

Basically because...
View attachment 169291

Haha that's me too!

I take that nothing new has been going on lately.

Well there was a goku Splatoon argument but yeah.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You people are being assholes and are taking this way too personally.

Let people think what they want and debate like a human being.