Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jetsurge]

Does anyone else find it weird that Vergeben doesn't know of any Namco reps yet but supposedly knows a Square Enix one? It's just odd. I wonder if he just isn't saying anything on purpose.

I doubt there will be a Namco newcomer except for maybe Ms. Pac-Man.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don't mean to be rude but Sakurai's gotta be out of his mind if he thinks only Pac-Man and Heihachi are the only Namco reps that could work when we have

-Agumon
-Lloyd Irving
-Nightmare
-Yoshimitsu

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Well, it's officially October 11th. You're off the hook for now, Pyra .

Happy birthday, Noipoi !

 

[Zinith]

I'm ashamed that you only have one yoshi as your team. Think of all the possibilities.

What do you think I've doing these past 5 months?

 

[ES. Dinah]

Interviewer: Between Bandai and Namco, were there any other strong candidates for inclusion as a fighter?

Sakurai: There were none. We basically thought of all the characters at the start of development. We decided on characters we knew we could make. However, there were a few in consideration, such as Heihachi from “Tekken.”

Interviewer: Heihachi!

Sakurai: That’s right. However, implementing Heihachi’s movement in Smash would be difficult…

Yeah, everyone brings that one up but that was back then. I think for sure now he'd consider more reps especially like KOS-MOS since he loves Xenoblade 2 and it's more of a role than her cameo appearances I suppose. He also says Heihachi's moveset would be difficult but who knows if he even finalized one by now. If not, I hope he went with someone else.

 

[NineS]

I don't mean to be rude but Sakurai's gotta be out of his mind if he thinks only Pac-Man and Heihachi are the only Namco reps that could work when we have

-Agumon
-Lloyd Irving
-Nightmare
-Yoshimitsu

Well, considering that Lloyd got his own mii costume, he's probably one of the most likely next Namco reps aside from Heihachi.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai said "a few in consideration, like Heihachi from Tekken". Key term being a few. There's no way he only said Heihachi was considered. He just didn't mention the other choices. There's at least around 2-4 more he looked at as ideas.

 

[Noipoi]

Happy birthday, Noipoi !

Why Thank You! I'm an old man of 17 now, time to start thinking about the important things.
Like College, and Girls, and Girl College. But that can wait until Ultimate's out.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Yeah, everyone brings that one up but that was back then. I think for sure now he'd consider more reps especially like KOS-MOS since he loves Xenoblade 2 and it's more of a role than her cameo appearances I suppose. He also says Heihachi's moveset would be difficult but who knows if he even finalized one by now. If not, I hope he went with someone else.

what about my boy klonoa

 

[HyruleHero]

Your Spirits Mode bit makes me wonder: if you could make an RPG party out of 4 characters we have, what would you decide? I would go for (swords bias, and photo bias).

Well I guess I would have to have my boy link other than that maybe this:

ultsimon:

Link is support/fighter using sword and bow
Robin Mage using sword
Simon is a Warrior like character maining in whips
Pit is fast thief like character using knives and bow

tried to make a DQ ish like team. to put it simply, Link is all-round, Robin is long range mage, Simon is front line warrior and Pit is a character for a quick hit low damage but fast.

 

[SigmaMewtwo]

Your Spirits Mode bit makes me wonder: if you could make an RPG party out of 4 characters we have, what would you decide? I would go for (swords bias, and photo bias).

Hmm... if I had to think of each Smash character like a typical class like in RPGs, I'd probably aim for a balanced one:

Warrior (Best single enemy damage and overall boss-killer) -
Tank (For drawing enemy aggro) -
Mage (Elemental breaking character) - :ultrobin
Ranger (Master projectile user) -

I typically prefer teams like this in my RPGs, simply because I like having a party useful for all situations rather than different parties for specific situations, if that makes sense.

Man, that sounds awesome! I would love to see Smash get fun online coop. Splatoon 2's Salmon Run is amazing, so I can only imagine how much fun a boss rush or some form of online Smash Run would be. Here's hoping!

As for what I think it'll be, I'm kinda with you. I feel like there'll also be some story bits as well, and they'll change depending on who you're playing as. While I doubt the mode will have cool CG cutscenes like Brawl, I wouldn't count ingame cutscenes out yet. I could easily see them do textbox scenes similar to Mario Tennis Aces.

Yeah, Salmon Run is probably my favorite part of Splatoon 2, as I prefer cooperative experiences to competitive ones if I had to choose. The feeling you get when overcoming a challenge together can't be beat imo, and Smash could really use some sort of online co-op, even if it isn't tied to Spirits Mode.

A boss rush could work if nothing else, and maybe you could get some free unique costumes or something of the sort by participating in it, similar to how Salmon Run in Splatoon 2 and Mario Tennis Aces tournaments work. There's an idea here, I can feel it!

And yes, I agree with your idea that a text-based story could work in absence of cutscenes. I actually wouldn't mind that approach if that is what they take, as we could still see interactions in that way, and could make for some memorable stories. There could even be some unique conversations in the style of the "Tales of" series depending on which characters you pair together, I can see the potential.

You do realize it doesn't have to have all the characters right? I mean SSE didn't have Jigglypuff, Toon Link and Wolf as part of the story after all.

True, but a key difference here is the fact that with Ultimate, "Everyone is Here!" With SSE, those three were very late additions, so they were relegated to postgame unlocks. They did try to give them some minor cutscenes to when you encountered them in SSE, but it felt more like a nod to Melee's Adventure mode with how you encountered them, rather than being part of SSE; I appreciated having them in at all, but you missed out on their interactions, which kinda hurt a bit honestly (especially in the case of Toon Link and Wolf).

For Ultimate, I would think that every character (in the base roster at least) would have some role to play in Spirits Mode if they wanted to make an overarching story of it. Because "Everyone is Here," I would think that each character would have their own chance to shine if they wanted to take a SSE-style approach to Spirits Mode, as Sakurai would want to please as many people as possible with it; leaving certain characters as postgame unlocks might disappoint fans of said characters, so I don't think we'll be seeing a repeat of this in Ultimate.

Just my two cents anyway, and it really is up to Sakurai how things go down with the mode. As long as it is fun to play, I'm down with whatever Spirits Mode is, whether an SSE-inspired mode, a Melee Adventure kind of mode, a fusion of the two, or even something altogether unique.

 

[PsySmasher]

Does anyone else find it weird that Vergeben doesn't know of any Namco reps yet but supposedly knows a Square Enix one? It's just odd. I wonder if he just isn't saying anything on purpose.

Considering he didn't mention anything about , it's definitely in the realm of possibility.

It also would be kind of ironic that the company that actual helped to develop the game is the only 3rd party company to have one rep (if we do end up getting another Square rep).

 

[KMDP]

I loved that so much! Do you think we could see something like that for Peach and Daisy?
Peach enters in, but instead Daisy footstools her? I really want to see that now.

...Yes.

This is a good idea.

 

[AugustusB]

I don't mean to be rude but Sakurai's gotta be out of his mind if he thinks only Pac-Man and Heihachi are the only Namco reps that could work when we have

-Agumon
-Lloyd Irving
-Nightmare
-Yoshimitsu

Don't forget these others
- KOS-MOS (Technically Monolith, but Namco bought the rights to 3 back in April)
-Klonoa
-Luke Von Fabre (Tales of the Abyss)

 

[TheCJBrine]

So it's been two weeks since Sakurai's last Famitsu column, and it looks like we didn't get one this week. Strange.

Sakurai's Famitsu Column Theory

Effectively, this replaces Playlist Theory. If a new column from Sakurai has not been published at its usual time, new Smash news is coming soon.

As cool as Geno would be, I think his supporters tend to forget that both Sakurai and Square Enix have to agree to his inclusion if Sakurai wants to put him in. Sakurai has mentioned that he wanted Geno since Brawl, but there's a reason he still hasn't gotten in yet. Perhaps Square Enix just doesn't see any way that they could benefit from his inclusion. Unlike other characters owned by them, Geno is not in any recent or upcoming games that could be promoted and doesn't have any merchandise. At the end of the day, Square Enix is just like any other corporation and wants to make a profit. But who knows? Maybe I'll end up being wrong and Geno will still get in somehow.

I dunno, they let him have the Mii Costume, using his likeness and flat-out saying his name. I guess it could've been a way to gauge his popularity...?

Plus they already have Cloud whom advertises Final Fantasy, one of their hit series, right? Which could get some people interested into some of Square's other series depending on the person.

at least I'd assume so

 

[KingofKoopas]

LAte to the party, was watching as i was reinstalling stuff but, Gardevoir is one of the coolest Pokemon i know and deserves to be in Smash IF they do a at least one from each gen thing.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

True, but a key difference here is the fact that with Ultimate, "Everyone is Here!" With SSE, those three were very late additions, so they were relegated to postgame unlocks. They did try to give them some minor cutscenes to when you encountered them in SSE, but it felt more like a nod to Melee's Adventure mode with how you encountered them, rather than being part of SSE; I appreciated having them in at all, but you missed out on their interactions, which kinda hurt a bit honestly (especially in the case of Toon Link and Wolf).

For Ultimate, I would think that every character (in the base roster at least) would have some role to play in Spirits Mode if they wanted to make an overarching story of it. Because "Everyone is Here," I would think that each character would have their own chance to shine if they wanted to take a SSE-style approach to Spirits Mode, as Sakurai would want to please as many people as possible with it; leaving certain characters as postgame unlocks might disappoint fans of said characters, so I don't think we'll be seeing a repeat of this in Ultimate.

Just my two cents anyway, and it really is up to Sakurai how things go down with the mode. As long as it is fun to play, I'm down with whatever Spirits Mode is, whether an SSE-inspired mode, a Melee Adventure kind of mode, a fusion of the two, or even something altogether unique.

Still pulling we at least get a few SSE-esque cutscenes at least especially if the cutscene-like reveals with the newcomers are taken into account.

 

[NineS]

Next week would honestly be a good time to reveal Nightmare/Yoshimitsu if they're in the game for obvious reasons.

I know I'm going to sound like a conspiracy theorist, and that I'm grasping at straws here, but there was a thread in GameFAQs asking whether 2B should be DLC for that game.
Vergeben jumped out of nowhere and said she should, and probably will be in the game.
Now, I'm not saying he's leaking for SoulCalibur, but it's possible he's hinting at the unnamed Smash Square rep for sma-- Who am I kidding? My thoughts are clouded by what I want instead of what will most likely be.

I need a pessimist to bring me back down to earth, stat!

 

[Noipoi]

I need a pessimist to bring me back down to earth, stat!

Bad things happen, and there's nothing we can do about it. We'll all be dead anyway.

Was that pessimistic enough for you?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Who knows too DLC could always give us supposed SSE like cutscenes for Spirits or at least more if there's only a few. Just food for thought.

 

[Idon]

I know I'm going to sound like a conspiracy theorist, and that I'm grasping at straws here, but there was a thread in GameFAQs asking whether 2B should be DLC for that game.
Vergeben jumped out of nowhere and said she should, and probably will be in the game.
Now, I'm not saying he's leaking for SoulCalibur, but it's possible he's hinting at the unnamed Smash Square rep for sma-- Who am I kidding? My thoughts are clouded by what I want instead of what will most likely be.

I need a pessimist to bring me back down to earth, stat!

Hi, resident pessimist here.

I don't think 2B, or frankly any character action game protagonist, would fit in Soul Calibur. Not unless they inexplicably decide to add minutes long air-comboes. The only time I've seen them done well is with Dante, Vergil, and Trish in UMvC3.

 

[NineS]

Bad things happen, and there's nothing we can do about it. We'll all be dead anyway.

Was that pessimistic enough for you?

Hi, resident pessimist here.

I don't think 2B, or frankly any character action game protagonist, would fit in Soul Calibur. Not unless they inexplicably decide to add minutes long air-comboes. The only time I've seen them done well is with Dante, Vergil, and Trish in UMvC3.

Thanks. I was getting a little too unreasonably optimistic there. Back to nihilistic realism.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I think the biggest claim for Geno's chances in this game are having the Mii Costume. And not just 'hurr durr he has one like Isabelle, Chrom, and K. Rool'. It's what him being a 3rd Party Mii Costume means.

You look at all the other 3rd party Mii Costumes we got. We have stuff like Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Monster Hunter, Chocobo, extra Sonic characters and Mega Man characters. Geno gets the same, if not MORE recognition than those through his Mii Costume introduction. If that isn't proof alone that Sakurai believes Geno is massively popular, I don't know what else would.

I claim no absolutes, that's just a bad idea, but I stand firm with the belief that if we're getting a new SE rep, the most likely one is Geno.

 

[Zinith]

Bad things happen, and there's nothing we can do about it. We'll all be dead anyway.

Was that pessimistic enough for you?

I can't even be pessimistic over that. 'Cause even long after I'm gone and six feet under, I know that my boi would be around for generations to come

 

[Aurane]

If you need a Namco newcomer, could always add the Ghosts from Pacman.

Not even kidding. I'd be totally okay with that.

 

[Luigi The President]

Hi, resident pessimist here.

I don't think 2B, or frankly any character action game protagonist, would fit in Soul Calibur. Not unless they inexplicably decide to add minutes long air-comboes. The only time I've seen them done well is with Dante, Vergil, and Trish in UMvC3.

Ezio Auditore already made an appearance in Soulcalibur.
As did Link, and even Heihachi.
2B is pretty reasonable.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If you need a Namco newcomer, could always add the Ghosts from Pacman.

Not even kidding. I'd be totally okay with that.

If they were to get in the game I'd imagine them being assist trophies tbh.

Edit: Whelp nevermind they are...

 

[KMDP]

I don't mean to be rude but Sakurai's gotta be out of his mind if he thinks only Pac-Man and Heihachi are the only Namco reps that could work when we have

-Agumon
-Lloyd Irving
-Nightmare
-Yoshimitsu

Who knows what he actually meant.

The thing about Nightmare (and Yoshimitsu to a lesser extent) is that until SC6 was revealed last year, Soulcalibur hadn't been around for many years; and Smash 4's roster picks were all about contemporary and/or super well-known characters.

The same kind of applies to Digimon, it only started making a comeback after Smash 4's design document was made; it's been around, but between Digimon World Championship and Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth, none of the games were released outside of Japan... they also only came out on the PSP and Vita. It was the work of fans who brought Cyber Sleuth to the West (a petition, just like Xenoblade Chronicles), which sparked the franchise's resurgence.

 

[Noipoi]

I can't even be pessimistic over that. 'Cause even long after I'm gone and six feet under, I know that my boi would be around for generations to come

Then you'll be reincarnated, and you'll get to fall in love with Yoshi all over again in your next life!

 

[Idon]

Ezio Auditore already made an appearance in Soulcalibur.
As did Link, and even Heihachi.
2B is pretty reasonable.

That wasn't the point.
The problem isn't 3rd party cooperation.
They've managed to get comic-book characters like Spawn and movie characters like Darth Vader, so they're clearly skilled at negotiating 3rd party characters.

The issue is having an accurate portrayal of 2B that also fits within the confines of Soul Calibur's combat systems, which are far more slow and deliberate than what you can do in Nier Automata.

I don't mean to be rude but Sakurai's gotta be out of his mind if he thinks only Pac-Man and Heihachi are the only Namco reps that could work when we have

-Agumon
-Lloyd Irving
-Nightmare
-Yoshimitsu

Cough, Kos-mos too

 

[Luigi The President]

That wasn't the point.
The problem isn't 3rd party cooperation.
They've managed to get comic-book characters like Spawn and movie characters like Darth Vader, so they're clearly skilled at negotiating 3rd party characters.

The issue is having an accurate portrayal of 2B that also fits within the confines of Soul Calibur's combat systems, which are far more slow and deliberate than what you can do in Nier Automata.

Interesting POV. I still feel 2B has a shot but you'd know more than me because I haven't played Automata.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

I don't mean to be rude but Sakurai's gotta be out of his mind if he thinks only Pac-Man and Heihachi are the only Namco reps that could work when we have

-Agumon
-Lloyd Irving
-Nightmare
-Yoshimitsu

what about my boy klonoa

 

[Idon]

Interesting POV. I still feel 2B has a shot but you'd know more than me because I haven't played Automata.

Basically, her fundamental combat in Nier Automata is insanely fast paced with huge far-reaching attacks on top of potent ranged weaponry.
Imagine trying to put Bayonetta into Street Fighter.

compared to

Characters like Bayonetta, 2B, Dante, and Raiden fit more in fighters that emphasize movement like MvC or anime fighters or heck, even Smash, where they're given more room to show off their flashy attacks.
For example, look at how well Dante fits in MvC's combat system:

 

[KingofKoopas]

I'm all for Nightmare honestly, but when it comes to him and Heihachi, namcos two premier fighters, once again why not both. I hate zero sum games.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm all for Nightmare honestly, but when it comes to him and Heihachi, namcos two premier fighters, once again why not both. I hate zero sum games.

Indeed Nightmare would definitely be a unique swordfighter too. I'd much prefer him then Heihachi.

Too bad he probably won't be in the game though...Not only would he be a third party character but a third party villain too.

I can now only imagine fanart of welcoming Nightmare into Smash with a banner above saying "First Third-Party Villain" if he gets in

 

[Idon]

I'm all for Nightmare honestly, but when it comes to him and Heihachi, namcos two premier fighters, once again why not both. I hate zero sum games.

Because
1. It's unrealistic. There's only so many resources and we can't expect 2 already niche characters to both make it in/
and
2. it's fun to discuss the benefits of one over the other. Pitting character X against character Y is far more entertaining for a forum to talk about then "Why not both" and then leave it at that.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Because
1. It's unrealistic. There's only so many resources and we can't expect 2 already niche characters to both make it in/
and
2. it's fun to discuss the benefits of one over the other. Pitting character X against character Y is far more entertaining for a forum to talk about then "Why not both" and then leave it at that.

Why not both isnt boring as it is optimistic, and besides DLC is a thing and were not talking about two unknown characters from niche indie games that got circled around steam greenlight for a bit. Tekken is the be all end all when it comes to 3D fighting, and Soul Calibur is that for weapons based fighting (ok that subgenre is a bit niche but still).

 

[KMDP]

I can now only imagine fanart of welcoming Nightmare into Smash with a banner above saying "First Third-Party Villain" if he gets in

And then Nightmare proceeds to devour all of their SOOOUULLLSS!!!

 

[Chumpodile]

Nightmare all the way for me!

I'm only really voting on appearance though, Nightmare looks sick.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nightmare all the way for me!

I'm only really voting on appearance though, Nightmare looks sick.

That's also honestly the only reason too for me. That and he'd be a unique swordfighter and very first third party villain so there's also those.