Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[staindgrey]

Yeah, wasn't Bowser considered garbage in Smash 4 until Nairo showed up to a tournament with him and just mopped the floor with everybody, because he was the only one who decided to really dig into the character and find out what he's capable of, and no one knew how to counter it?

I have a feeling that R.O.B. might be a more competitive character if some of the better players put time into learning him, but he is a weird character both in gameplay and origin, so he doesn't appeal to many people the same way other top-tier characters do.

There's something to be said, though, about familiarity. Hypothetically, say that on a scale of 1-10, Bowser is a 6, and he's playing against Falco (8), Diddy (9) and Bayonetta (10). While those three characters have clear advantages over Bowser, the players themselves have no experience playing against Bowser, while the Bowser player has all the experience in the world against their characters. It gives him an advantage.

Characters inherently have strengths and weaknesses, and naturally some characters (Bayo) will have more general strengths than others (Little Mac). This is what leads to tier lists. The problem is that there are so many people that take tier lists as law and limit their character choices to ones that are higher, thus leaving the low tier characters to their fates of being "low tier".

It's good to remember that when Brawl released, Metaknight was commonly considered to be mid- to mid-high tier. Oh, how blissfully ignorant we all were.

 

[Zinith]

It’s also bad for the “bad” characters, as they are considered unviable, so they don’t get played, which means their meta can’t advance, keeping them in the low tier on an endless cycle.

Or it could be the case with my boi, where he starts high but no one decided to advance his meta and how he's 34th...

 

[staindgrey]

I'd argue that Fates edges out Awakening barely, but yes, they're both amazing. Two of my all time favorite OSTS without a doubt

where the **** is my fates music in smash we dont need more lost in thoughts remixes

I really do love the Fates OST despite very much disliking the games themselves.

Conquest specifically has the best "fire/roar" tracks.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

As far as Fire Emblem music goes, we need a remix of the official **** your pants theme:

I'll always associate this theme with the chapter where the Black Knight just suddenly busts out into the middle of the map and I had to send three units to the meat grinder so the rest of the group could get the hell out of dodge. In a game with permadeaths an encounter with such an absurdly strong villain is a scary prospect and really stuck with me. I know the original version of his battle theme has been in Smash, but I'd love a remix, maybe mashing up both themes.

 

[SlickWylde]

Re: Ridley/K.rool talk

Ridley will get destroyed against any Swordman/combo heavy Characters. I can't wait to see the poor dragon vs Cloud/Marth/Ryu He will be a character that reward patience and smart play..

K.rool just look unoriginal as **** for me. Like...I look at his kit and I'm..."meh"

Really? He's the first *huge heavyweight (I know Ike is Heavyweight but he's not really that large) with a counter, his crown toss moves in a way unlike other projectiles, and his Blunderbuss and follow up seems unlike anything else in the game! His up-b is unoriginal, but fits his character. But compared to a lot of other characters (Ike, Roy, Lucina, Chrom) I think his moveset is pretty damn interesting.

 

[Dukemon]

400 Strong!

View attachment 169127

I prefer ShineGreymon. He is less mainstream.

 

[Idon]

As far as Fire Emblem music goes, we need a remix of the official **** your pants theme:

I'll always associate this theme with the chapter where the Black Knight just suddenly busts out into the middle of the map and I had to sacrifice three units for the rest of the group to get the hell out of dodge. In a game with permadeaths an encounter with such an absurdly strong villain is a scary prospect and really stuck with me. I know the original version of his battle theme has been in Smash, but I'd love a remix, maybe mashing up both themes.

"DID SOMEONE SAY THIS GAME WAS... TOO EASY?"

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Shadow footage

I'm on the case today!

 

[Opossum]

Real talk, Awakening still has the best top-to-bottom soundtrack. It's so ****ing good.

But yes. Any FE pre-3DS is horribly underappreciated.

IMO Shadows of Valentia edges out Awakening for the top spot in the soundtrack department. So many great songs from there.

Honorable mention goes to Shadow Dragon and New Mystery though. They really pushed the DS soundfont to its limits.

 

[MysticKnives]

Re: Ridley/K.rool talk

Ridley will get destroyed against any Swordman/combo heavy Characters. I can't wait to see the poor dragon vs Cloud/Marth/Ryu He will be a character that reward patience and smart play..

K.rool just look unoriginal as **** for me. Like...I look at his kit and I'm..."meh"

I don’t find either terrible, but Rids and Rool are just very boring to me

 

[staindgrey]

Really? He's the first *huge heavyweight (I know Ike is Heavyweight but he's not really that large) with a counter, his crown toss moves in a way unlike other projectiles, and his Blunderbuss and follow up seems unlike anything else in the game! His up-b is unoriginal, but fits his character. But compared to a lot of other characters (Ike, Roy, Lucina, Chrom) I think his moveset is pretty damn interesting.

Interesting, yes. But I don't feel like it flows well. Personally, I don't see it having all that much potential in a 1v1 match.

Granted, I could be very wrong. But I understand why people watch the gameplay video of him versus Snake and think, "Yeeeeeeeeah no."

 

[T-Hell]

Man, now that I'm busier I really can't wait for a new dose of Smash info. I really hope they announce it this week.

 

[Luigi The President]

We have entered The Blind Day, in which we have literally no idea if a Smash announcement of any kind is coming tomorrow

A true middle day

 

[Deleted member]

IMO Shadows of Valentia edges out Awakening for the top spot in the soundtrack department. So many great songs from there.

Honorable mention goes to Shadow Dragon and New Mystery though. They really pushed the DS soundfont to its limits.

As much crap as I give the 3DS Fire Emblem games, I admit the soundtracks are pretty damn good.

 

[Potato_]

Speaking of the gameplay videos, it's a real bummer we didn't get anything of Simon/Richter. I'm very interested to see how those two play.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Moveset potential doesn't neccesarily mean a character is super gimmicky and stands out from the roster, it just means the character can do a lot of things rather then just be a one trick pony.

I'd hate to throw Ike under the bus here, but all his moves are sword swings. They don't really feel super distinct from one another. That's not really a bad thing, since Ike is meant to be basic and straitforward and I love to play as him because of it, but it's still worth bringing up.

Meanwhile K.Rool will bunch, shoot canonballs, throw his crown, armor through things with his dash attack, ect. He may not have a schtick but he still does have a variety of tools at his disposal. His moveset certainly isn't boring.

 

[Iridium]

Speaking of the gameplay videos, it's a real bummer we didn't get anything of Simon/Richter. I'm very interested to see how those two play.

I still think Simon's better. No hate to Richter, but I have to prefer the original, in this case. However, seeing both is something I would love to see.

Anyway, I'm not usually the one to speak of character deaths/injuries, but this image is pretty good.

I bet someone out there has started the "Subspace Theory", but I like memes, so...yeah.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of the gameplay videos, it's a real bummer we didn't get anything of Simon/Richter. I'm very interested to see how those two play.

We haven't seen much of the Castlevania dudes or Daisy outside their reveals. Isabelle too, but she's more recent so it's not as big of a deal.

Inkling and Ridley have plenty of gameplay footage due to the E3 Build, and Chrom, Dark Samus and K. Rool have those uploaded matches that feature them.
Why not those 3 (and Isabelle I guess)?
Like maybe a 2 v 2 with Simon/Richter vs. Peach/Daisy?

 

[staindgrey]

IMO Shadows of Valentia edges out Awakening for the top spot in the soundtrack department. So many great songs from there.

Honorable mention goes to Shadow Dragon and New Mystery though. They really pushed the DS soundfont to its limits.

SoV has a very good OST, yeah. Heritors of Arcadia blew End of All out of the water.

At the same time, I feel like the game's overall OST was bloated a bit by unmemorable slower pieces in between all the big hits, possibly due to it being a remake that drew from old tracks directly but had to create a lot more for a much larger game. Awakening, for me at least, is listenable all the way through with no breaks. I love it.

 

[Diem]

There's something to be said, though, about familiarity. Hypothetically, say that on a scale of 1-10, Bowser is a 6, and he's playing against Falco (8), Diddy (9) and Bayonetta (10). While those three characters have clear advantages over Bowser, the players themselves have no experience playing against Bowser, while the Bowser player has all the experience in the world against their characters. It gives him an advantage.

Characters inherently have strengths and weaknesses, and naturally some characters (Bayo) will have more general strengths than others (Little Mac). This is what leads to tier lists. The problem is that there are so many people that take tier lists as law and limit their character choices to ones that are higher, thus leaving the low tier characters to their fates of being "low tier".

It's good to remember that when Brawl released, Metaknight was commonly considered to be mid- to mid-high tier. Oh, how blissfully ignorant we all were.

Yeah, the initial shock and awe plays a huge role because the other players aren't used to fighting a character no one ever uses. But if it weren't for Nairo proving that the character is at least somewhat competitive, no one else probably would have, and Bowser would've been ranked lower indefinitely. Bowser wasn't some hidden top tier, but he was still more powerful than anyone else at the time was willing to investigate.

Which makes me wonder how many other characters are more powerful than they're given credit for just because they don't appeal enough to the major players to push them to the limit. Almost all of the top tier characters in Smash 4 are also ones that are appeal to a broad audience for one reason or another. A lot of the lower-tier ones are the more niche characters. It's mostly coincidental, as the lists are of course based on objective balance details, but perhaps many of those characters have greater potential than might be evident right now.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of the gameplay videos, it's a real bummer we didn't get anything of Simon/Richter. I'm very interested to see how those two play.

The reason we haven’t seen it yet is because it’s another team battle, and it’s Simon/Richter vs. Ryu/Ken.

 

[SkywardStriker16]

Yeah, wasn't Bowser considered garbage in Smash 4 until Nairo showed up to a tournament with him and just mopped the floor with everybody, because he was the only one who decided to really dig into the character and find out what he's capable of, and no one knew how to counter it?

Cases like that are ironic considering that Sakurai made a big deal out of buffing him for Smash 4.

I personally really like R.O.B.. Yeah, he's definitely a strange character, but his aerial moves are quite viable. It's a shame that Sakurai makes so many characters for the game when the competitive scene really only finds a small number of them capable to fight with. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement---look at Meta Knight and Ganondorf, both historically broken and terrible fighters that have been improved to make smashing with them more enjoyable.

 

[Zinith]

Which makes me wonder how many other characters are more powerful than they're given credit for just because they don't appeal enough to the major players to push them to the limit.

Gee, I wonder who that could be

 

[Deleted member]

The reason we haven’t seen it yet is because it’s another team battle, and it’s Simon/Richter vs. Ryu/Ken.

Not gonna lie, I’d be okay with this.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I still think Simon's better. No hate to Richter, but I have to prefer the original, in this case. However, seeing both is something I would love to see.

Anyway, I'm not usually the one to speak of character deaths/injuries, but this image is pretty good.

I bet someone out there has started the "Subspace Theory", but I like memes, so...yeah.

"Subspace Luigi, Dedede & Ness Trio Deaths in Ultimate Trailers Theory Deluxe"

Next reveal will be Porky, featuring Ness crying "Mommy! Daddy! Help! I'm gonna wet my pants!" then Porky knocking him down, leaving Lucas to faceoff against him.

 

[Noipoi]

I. HATE. ALLERGIES.
And if my current state is any indication, they hate me too...

Anything new?

 

[Guynamednelson]

t's a shame that Sakurai makes so many characters for the game when the competitive scene really only finds a small number of them capable to fight with. .

To be fair, they don't know who the competitive characters will be when developing the game. When developing patches, on the other hand...

 

[CosmicQuark]

They seemed to be ripped from the N64 game... (yes, I understand Sonic had his ripped from Sonic 06, but that was due to time constraints)

Unless my memory's off, doesn't sound like from the N64 game--sounds like new instrumentation, a bit higher pitched (EDIT: listening back, could also be the audio quality).

There's also this that was posted in the Banjo & Kazooie thread. Seems like way too many newcomers, and the timing of reveals seems off (also I have a habit of not believing leakers who pontificate). But it's here if anybody wants to analyze the sound clip from a different... more unbelievable... series provided.

 

[Iridium]

So, if we all got something like Smash Run (or it) for Ultimate, would you all be fine with being able to see the HP of his enemies when wearing a Champion Tunic alt? It would be a nice touch.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Unless my memory's off, doesn't sound like from the N64 game--sounds like new instrumentation, a bit higher pitched (listening back, could also be the audio quality).

There's also this that was posted in the Banjo & Kazooie thread. Seems like way too many newcomers, and the timing of reveals seems off (also I have a habit of not believing leakers who pontificate). But it's here if anybody wants to analyze the sound clip from a different... more unbelievable... series provided.

I would still love Master Chief in smash

 

[staindgrey]

Yeah, the initial shock and awe plays a huge role because the other players aren't used to fighting a character no one ever uses. But if it weren't for Nairo proving that the character is at least somewhat competitive, no one else probably would have, and Bowser would've been ranked lower indefinitely. Bowser wasn't some hidden top tier, but he was still more powerful than anyone else at the time was willing to investigate.

Which makes me wonder how many other characters are more powerful than they're given credit for just because they don't appeal enough to the major players to push them to the limit. Almost all of the top tier characters in Smash 4 are also ones that are appeal to a broad audience for one reason or another. A lot of the lower-tier ones are the more niche characters. It's mostly coincidental, as the lists are of course based on objective balance details, but perhaps many of those characters have greater potential than might be evident right now.

It's an interesting thought. As a Juri main in SFV, I experience the opposite: She's low tier for good reason, but she also lacks the initial surprise that you talk about because a lot of players online use her anyway. She's a popular character in casual and semi-competitive settings, but she's absolutely low tier due to her charged projectiles and honest gameplay. I feel that enough people have combed over her kit that we can be absolutely certain there's no hidden potential there; she's just bad. But she's popular anyway because people like the character.

We couldn't say the same thing about, say, ROB. Not hating on him, but I think we can agree he doesn't exactly have a huge fanbase to flesh him out.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

So guys if tidus was in smash would his laugh be a taunt or a victory "quote".

 

[CosmicQuark]

I would still love Master Chief in smash

I'd like both of them. I think Banjo could represent Rare and Master Chief representing Xbox. I just can't see it being realistic as I feel like having some presence on a Nintendo system, however small, is pretty important. There was that cancelled DS game, I think, but still. I'd be content if this was the roster, outside of some small issues, but it has fake written all over it. Still curious if people know if the music track is from anywhere, has any flaws.

 

[Union of Darkness]

Which makes me wonder how many other characters are more powerful than they're given credit for just because they don't appeal enough to the major players to push them to the limit. Almost all of the top tier characters in Smash 4 are also ones that are appeal to a broad audience for one reason or another. A lot of the lower-tier ones are the more niche characters. It's mostly coincidental, as the lists are of course based on objective balance details, but perhaps many of those characters have greater potential than might be evident right now.

Guys, check this out.
What if, now follow me on this,
Ganondorf was sleeper OP?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

So guys if tidus was in smash would his laugh be a taunt or a victory "quote".

It'd be his final smash forcing everybody to get launched away in horror

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So guys if tidus was in smash would his laugh be a taunt or a victory "quote".

His laugh is way too good to be used for just one and not the other...

 

[---]

View attachment 169136
"DID SOMEONE SAY THIS GAME WAS... TOO EASY?"

Fun fact. The Black Knight's stats don't change even on Maniac mode.

After Echoes, Tellius has my favorite OSTs, and I'd love to hear some remixes.

 

[PeridotGX]

Which makes me wonder how many other characters are more powerful than they're given credit for just because they don't appeal enough to the major players to push them to the limit. Almost all of the top tier characters in Smash 4 are also ones that are appeal to a broad audience for one reason or another. A lot of the lower-tier ones are the more niche characters. It's mostly coincidental, as the lists are of course based on objective balance details, but perhaps many of those characters have greater potential than might be evident right now.

I don't know. Falco, Kirby, and Dedede are all low tier characters that people like.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'd like both of them. I think Banjo could represent Rare and Master Chief representing Xbox. I just can't see it being realistic as I feel like having some presence on a Nintendo system, however small, is pretty important. There was that cancelled DS game, I think, but still. I'd be content if this was the roster, outside of some small issues, but it has fake written all over it. Still curious if people know if the music track is from anywhere, has any flaws.

Well Master Chief is a skin in Minecraft, which is still available in the Switch version.

Can totally justify his inclusion now

 

[KMDP]

400 Strong!

View attachment 169127

Speaking of Agumon in Smash. I was making a list of the songs I'd like to see if he did get into Smash.

Really this should go in the Agumon thread, but then I'd be preaching to the choir.
To be kind to Mobile Users, I'll just link the songs instead of posting like 20 youtube videos.

From Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth and Hacker's Memory

The Cyber Sleuth (Main Theme)​

Digital Wars (Normal Battle)​

Confront the Enemy (Boss Battle)​

Something Eroding (Special Boss Battle)​

Royal Knights (Royal Knights' Boss Battle)​

Final Phase (CS Final Dungeon theme) (Seriously, give this one a listen even if you listen to no others)​

The Anticipated New World (CS Final Boss theme)​

Cyber Duel ("Domination Battle" theme)​

Terror (Arcadiamon Boss Battle) (I really like this one)​

Last Cyber Attack (HM Final Boss theme)​

...Cyber Sleuth has a really great soundtrack.
From Digimon World

Accentier (Digimon World: -next 0rder- main theme)​

Digimon World Battle Theme​

Tamer Battle (Digimon World 3)​

Boss Battle (Digimon World: Dawn/Dusk)​

-next 0rder- Battle Theme 1​

-next 0rder- Battle Theme 2​

Machinedramon Battle (Original Version)​

From the Anime

Brave Heart​

Brave Heart (tri version)​

There was a Digimon Adventure PSP game which, naturally, had Brave Heart (the evolution theme) in it, let a man dream.

I spent way too long compiling this list, and there are probably tons of other songs that could be used that I missed.