Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

Hmmm I don't know about that.

People keep saying that but what would she do as an assist?

 

[Fenriraga]

Honestly, I feel a lot of this feeling of "drought" people are experiencing is because of .

That's not to say she isn't exciting for a lot of people, myself included, but she's also just extremely... Safe. Safe picks aren't a bad thing, far from it, but much like , she was more of an "Oh yeah, that makes sense actually, nice" than a "OMG NO WAY HE ACTUALLY PUT THEM IN SMASH WHOOOAAAA!" and are tough acts to follow, especially since Isabelle is a partial clone, which just makes some even more complacent about her.

Again, I love Isabelle and she absolutely deserves to be here. My point moreso is after such an absolute onslaught of mind-blowers like we got in the last Smash Direct, on top of all the non-character related reveals it brought, Isabelle might have left a bit to be desired for most. Some expected a bomb shell, and were instead met with some entertaining, albeit underwhelming, firecrackers. Especially since people went into that direct with crazier expectations like Skull Kid and Issac.

We aren't use to "safe" characters like we were in 4, especially with so much of the roster being ballot influenced.

 

[Pakky]

Fair enough. I overlooked her apparently.

Yes, this is the way.

People keep saying that but what would she do as an assist?

Throwing Sun salutations and or filling you off the stage for being too 'weighed down' with percentage

 

[Untouch]

The "drought" is more the anticipation that we KNOW stuff is coming soon, just we don't know when.
It's not like Smash 4 where they can drop some info and we know we won't have news for a while.

This speculation cycle has been very condensed, 2 years of speculation for Smash 4 is half a year for Smash Ultimate.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'd really like Cooking Mama as a WTF pick.
People would be upset (as always), but the series is more notable and iconic than a lot of the stuff people suggest.

I'm glad for the fans whenever their character is picked, though I think it'd be reasonable if people were upset. As I've said previously, in a limited roster, it becomes more important for each character to appeal to a more wide ranging group of people. If we had 16 characters, a WTF pick makes sense. That being said, there's already been some characters (not gonna mention them by name) that... don't fit with my perception of a good, well rounded character in a limited roster, and seems to only be there out of obligation to what we would expect of a larger roster. So at this point, anything can happen.

People keep saying that but what would she do as an assist?

Probably her final smash, to a lesser degree. Makes sense to me. It was a nice surprise, though, when she was announced as an actual character.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Honestly, I feel a lot of this feeling of "drought" people are experiencing is because of .

That's not to say she isn't exciting for a lot of people, myself included, but she's also just extremely... Safe. Safe picks aren't a bad thing, far from it, but much like , she was more of an "Oh yeah, that makes sense actually, nice" than a "OMG NO WAY HE ACTUALLY PUT THEM IN SMASH WHOOOAAAA!" and are tough acts to follow, especially since Isabelle is a partial clone, which just makes some even more complacent about her.

Again, I love Isabelle and she absolutely deserves to be here. My point moreso is after such an absolute onslaught of mind-blowers like we got in the last Smash Direct, on top of all the non-character related reveals it brought, Isabelle might have left a bit to be desired for most. Some expected a bomb shell, and were instead met with some entertaining, albeit underwhelming, firecrackers. Especially since people went into that direct with crazier expectations like Skull Kid and Issac.

We aren't use to "safe" characters like we were in 4, especially with so much of the roster being ballot influenced.

I also think a big part of it is we haven't seen any new gameplay footage. Like, yes new footage, but not of anything new.

E3 - August Direct wasn't as bad because we had hours and hours of gameplay of new characters, characters we haven't seen in a decade and just reworked mechanics and such on veterans.

Isabelle wasn't released much after and we did get some footage of King K and Dark Samus...but that's it. I really wish we got a new demo version with more newcomers and more stages. Would definitely help me.

 

[KingofKoopas]

At this point, it may be safe to say we wont get any smash news til November. At least that's what I figure, directs mostly being on wednesdays and fairly early into the month and all.

 

[Jakenimbus]

If you want to interpret the word ungrateful as being condescending, that's on you, not me.
I mentioned no one by name, and certainly not you, I just quoted a post.
The only one attacking any individual here is you. If you do not find irony in this, then we can continue via PM. My opinion is that from what I've read, this community is acting ungrateful. I'm not calling you a name, I'm not even jumping to conclusions- I'm directly describing the behavior I'm seeing. Just as you called me condescending, I'm not gonna go ballistic for you having your opinion. Again. irony.

Finally, someone finally acknowledges how I feel about the smash community. At a certain point, we have to draw the line between want and demand. I feel like often, too many people go too far into the demand section instead of the want. At the end of the day, sure we can be sad that our favorite characters might not make it in, but we have to be greatful with what we get and not start bashing the game because our favorites aren’t getting in. Overall, I am really excited to play smash ultimate and I am excited at how much hard work has been put in to making the game. But aside from this small rant, back to speculating on charcters!

For those confused:

Want: I would really like it if this character was in the game.

Demand: this character should be in the game (Demand is more hostile and less accepting if their character doesn’t make it in, and thinks the character that they want deserves/should be in the game)

 

[Pakky]

Does it scare anyone else at how fast & are?

 

[CosmicQuark]

At this point, it may be safe to say we wont get any smash news til November. At least that's what I figure, directs mostly being on wednesdays and fairly early into the month and all.

When I suggested a final November Direct, in addition to some October news, people became oddly defensive, particularly as November will be about Let's Go. Though, I do agree it's awkward to have a Smash announcement detracting from an upcoming game--at the same time, it was Nintendo who for some odd reason put them back to back. Doesn't make much of a difference if the next news is solely a final November Direct, but I could see that being a reason to have the final dump of news being late October, early November--which I'm leaning more heavily on now.

 

[RandomAce]

Smashboards: The Direct will come up soon, it’s only a matter of time.

Smashboards right now:

Y’all shouldn’t have hyped up too much.

 

[Idon]

Does it scare anyone else at how fast & are?

Nope.
They're huge. If you're huge, they have huge guts.

 

[KingofKoopas]

When I suggested a final November Direct, in addition to some October news, people became oddly defensive, particularly as November will be about Let's Go. Though, I do agree it's awkward to have a Smash announcement detracting from an upcoming game--at the same time, it was Nintendo who for some odd reason put them back to back. Doesn't make much of a difference if the next news is solely a final November Direct, but I could see that being a reason to have the final dump of news being late October, early November--which I'm leaning more heavily on now.

People seem to be a bit dopey about that because itd make more sense to have Pokemon News in October BEFORE Let's Go comes out. It doesnt release very long into November. Any news we DO get this month will probably be just pokemon related especially now that its a critical shilling time. Reviews will come out soon and all.

 

[osby]

Does it scare anyone else at how fast & are?

Not really, but Ridley's Side-B being "I hope you like recovering" is kinda annoying.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Does it scare anyone else at how fast & are?

I was SHOCKED by how fast King K. is. But to be fair it was against Snake...I think if you put him against Fox, Sonic, Captain Falcon, etc. he won't look nearly as fast.

Ridley looks good to me...but I've brought up a couple of times that I think he gets KO'd way too early for a heavy and no one has reinforced my beliefs . It's something that I really hope gets buffed before release.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Finally, someone finally acknowledges how I feel about the smash community. At a certain point, we have to draw the line between want and demand. I feel like often, too many people go too far into the demand section instead of the want. At the end of the day, sure we can be sad that our favorite characters might not make it in, but we have to be greatful with what we get and not start bashing the game because our favorites aren’t getting in. Overall, I am really excited to play smash ultimate and I am excited at how much hard work has been put in to making the game. But aside from this small rant, back to speculating on charcters!

For those confused:

Want: I would really like it if this character was in the game.

Demand: this character should be in the game (Demand is more hostile and less accepting if their character doesn’t make it in, and thinks the character that they want deserves/should be in the game)

The problem is I don't think we should cast moral judgement on people even if they demand stuff over a video game. It is a product. That costs money. They are fully in their rights to demand something of a game to be worth their money, and if it's not, they aren't required to buy it or be grateful for anything. To me, "Everyone is Here" was worth it enough for me--so I'm demanding very little since then, but still give my POV of what I would like. But I won't cast moral judgement on those who feel it hasn't been worth it from their POV.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Are drought is due to the playlist updating

We are anticipation a new character very son if no announcement this week I saw next week is very very likely

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I feel a lot of this feeling of "drought" people are experiencing is because of .

That's not to say she isn't exciting for a lot of people, myself included, but she's also just extremely... Safe. Safe picks aren't a bad thing, far from it, but much like , she was more of an "Oh yeah, that makes sense actually, nice" than a "OMG NO WAY HE ACTUALLY PUT THEM IN SMASH WHOOOAAAA!" and are tough acts to follow, especially since Isabelle is a partial clone, which just makes some even more complacent about her.

Again, I love Isabelle and she absolutely deserves to be here. My point moreso is after such an absolute onslaught of mind-blowers like we got in the last Smash Direct, on top of all the non-character related reveals it brought, Isabelle might have left a bit to be desired for most. Some expected a bomb shell, and were instead met with some entertaining, albeit underwhelming, firecrackers. Especially since people went into that direct with crazier expectations like Skull Kid and Issac.

We aren't use to "safe" characters like we were in 4, especially with so much of the roster being ballot influenced.

I really don't think we'll see any surprises past , and personally I'd rather blame the intentional character reveal hiatus that Sakurai announced than Isabelle's reveal.

As far as I know, people can only really distract themselves with fake leaks and theory/speculation for so long before they turn a little cynical. I myself am more than done with the newest rumors that arrives within the vicinity because it is so goshdarn often that they've been proved to be nothing but attention-greedy spamfests. At this point it is only really directs that people can actually have faith in, and that's kind of what's sad about each time a Smash is upcoming or in further development.

I'm fine with just waiting for the game at this point, because the initial reveal hype has pretty much subsided and I feel it's way more constructive to wait for real news instead of getting my hopes up for characters and features that obviously aren't going to be a part of the launched game.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Honestly, I feel a lot of this feeling of "drought" people are experiencing is because of .
That's not to say she isn't exciting for a lot of people, myself included, but she's also just extremely... Safe. Safe picks aren't a bad thing, far from it, but much like , she was more of an "Oh yeah, that makes sense actually, nice" than a "OMG NO WAY HE ACTUALLY PUT THEM IN SMASH WHOOOAAAA!" and are tough acts to follow, especially since Isabelle is a partial clone, which just makes some even more complacent about her.

Again, I love Isabelle and she absolutely deserves to be here. My point moreso is after such an absolute onslaught of mind-blowers like we got in the last Smash Direct, on top of all the non-character related reveals it brought, Isabelle might have left a bit to be desired for most. Some expected a bomb shell, and were instead met with some entertaining, albeit underwhelming, firecrackers. Especially since people went into that direct with crazier expectations like Skull Kid and Issac.

We aren't use to "safe" characters like we were in 4, especially with so much of the roster being ballot influenced.

And to be honest, if its Incineroar or Ken next, its going to be the same thing, mostly because the characters were also leaked like Isabelle and they are pretty much the "well yeah these make sense" kind of picks too.

Hopefully the next info drop is just something....different. It could even be other big requests people have, but just something out of the box (no pun intended) of just those 2 characters.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly I'm not expecting an announcement until late October/early November, whereupon we get the final Smash Direct before release.

 

[Sigran101]

The "drought" is more the anticipation that we KNOW stuff is coming soon, just we don't know when.
It's not like Smash 4 where they can drop some info and we know we won't have news for a while.

This speculation cycle has been very condensed, 2 years of speculation for Smash 4 is half a year for Smash Ultimate.

This is spot on. I wasn't going crazy for info before the new tag went down and the playlist got updated. It feels like a drought even though it's not because I'm expecting news soon. It's almost similar to the september direct situation to me.

 

[Soulsaint]

The first thing my brain says when I see the Isabelle stock icon is "Psyduck". Quickly followed by, no that's Isabelle. I don't know why I keep seeing Psyduck.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Whoa, a bit of hostility toward people asking for more news...

True, no game is marketed like Smash. We don't normally get extra info daily for other games, so we should in theory be fine without it here. But the problem is that Brawl's Dojo and Sm4sh's POTD have conditioned us to expect daily infodrops. I don't think it's being ungrateful to expect the same as what we had before, instead of suddenly getting the marketing of a different game entirely. I think that's the issue people have - Smash games for the last 10 years have given daily tidbits of information, and now we need to wait for directs like the marketing for Pokémon or Fire Emblem.

Still, I am thinking there's another infodump coming soon. I just wish I knew when...

 

[Opossum]

The first thing my brain says when I see the Isabelle stock icon is "Psyduck". Quickly followed by, no that's Isabelle. I don't know why I keep seeing Psyduck.

Meanwhile this thread has ruined her icon for me.

I can only see the Lorax.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I mean we have a lot of information on Ridley. His mobility seems decent, but he's actually very, very slow in terms of attack speed. By very, very slow I mean "considerably slower than Bowser and Donkey Kong"; it's going to be a big problem for him, and it's not like it's even outside of the domain of what we expect from heavies as DK, Bowser, and Charizard have pretty decent ground mobility too (King Dedede does not, but King Dedede is also bottom tier). So far we've seen that Ridley's combination of mobility, power, and range makes him a character that can capitalize heavily on offensive momentum (his ledge traps look extremely good, for instance, and he can really chase people down and keep up pressure well off stray hits it seems), but his combination of horrible attack speed, huge size, and bad recovery make him basically a glass cannon in that he tends to lose pretty badly when his opponent is the one with momentum. He's interesting and I look forward to exploring him, but if you're going to worry about Ridley being top tier or bottom tier, I'd be more worried about bottom than top just based on how characters with his type of problems have performed before since those are some pretty serious downsides.

King K. Rool is a character for whom we have very little footage; he seems to be kinda a really generic "greatest hits" heavyweight with like Bowser jab + Charizard uthrow + DDD nair and good mobility, but we're missing a lot of the pieces of the picture that will really inform how he works out (like we have no idea how his recovery works and if it's good or bad). We do know that his projectiles look really slow and gimmicky and thus probably really limited in utility so he's going to almost certainly be one of those characters who pretty much just relies on more straightforward fundamentals to win which could actually be pretty good if all the fundamental moves are there and balanced to be strong, but of the full picture we do know it seems like a good bet that K.Rool is going to operate pretty comfortably within the types of dynamics we expect from bigs already. His win condition is just having good normals that he can leverage with strong mobility and high bulk, being basically the better model for DK/Bowser gameplay. That would be great for him, but it wouldn't really redefine known Smash archetypes.

 

[TreeBranch]

Welp, rip playlist theory. At least spambot theory is still alive

 

[CosmicQuark]

Whoa, a bit of hostility toward people asking for more news...

True, no game is marketed like Smash. We don't normally get extra info daily for other games, so we should in theory be fine without it here. But the problem is that Brawl's Dojo and Sm4sh's POTD have conditioned us to expect daily infodrops. I don't think it's being ungrateful to expect the same as what we had before, instead of suddenly getting the marketing of a different game entirely. I think that's the issue people have - Smash games for the last 10 years have given daily tidbits of information, and now we need to wait for directs like the marketing for Pokémon or Fire Emblem.

Still, I am thinking there's another infodump coming soon. I just wish I knew when...

Well put. Those were exactly my thoughts, but since I wasn't around during that time, I wasn't sure if I should add that point without knowing for sure. Smash where it's at is in a weird state--it consistently smashes our expectations, and then we're kinda left with picking up the pieces ourselves.

 

[PsySmasher]

Honestly, I feel a lot of this feeling of "drought" people are experiencing is because of .

That's not to say she isn't exciting for a lot of people, myself included, but she's also just extremely... Safe. Safe picks aren't a bad thing, far from it, but much like , she was more of an "Oh yeah, that makes sense actually, nice" than a "OMG NO WAY HE ACTUALLY PUT THEM IN SMASH WHOOOAAAA!" and are tough acts to follow, especially since Isabelle is a partial clone, which just makes some even more complacent about her.

Again, I love Isabelle and she absolutely deserves to be here. My point moreso is after such an absolute onslaught of mind-blowers like we got in the last Smash Direct, on top of all the non-character related reveals it brought, Isabelle might have left a bit to be desired for most. Some expected a bomb shell, and were instead met with some entertaining, albeit underwhelming, firecrackers. Especially since people went into that direct with crazier expectations like Skull Kid and Issac.

We aren't use to "safe" characters like we were in 4, especially with so much of the roster being ballot influenced.

I think Nintendo/Sakurai made a big mistake revealing 5 characters, all off them being relatively popular, at one time early in the reveal cycle. Even though it was hands down one of the best Smash-related days in the series' 20 year history.

From a marketing perspective, if all that was left after August was Isabelle, Ken, and Incineroar (all of which were relatively safe guesses post-E3), that wouldn't be as an effective finisher to speculation, especially in comparison to the previous reveals.

Keep in mind that this game is being heavily marketed to previous Smash players: "Everyone is here", Ridley, and King K. Rool prove that.

The major reason why this is a concern is that unlike previous games, the entire base roster will be revealed pre-release. If the last characters are either safe or highly expected, that's definitely not going to produce as much hype when it's needed most: when the game actually releases.

There could be characters beyond the two expected, but considering Sakurai is implying that there aren't many reveals left, there's not much room left for the base roster.

 

[Roberk]

Does it scare anyone else at how fast & are?

Nope.
They're huge. If you're huge, they have huge guts.
View attachment 169119

Big characters are just bigger targets.

 

[Sigran101]

How about a different topic to get away from the hostility?

I got to try Ridley at Big House on Sunday, and let me tell you, down B needs to be nerved. I know in competitive it won't be very useful, but in casual it will be insane. I did a 1v1 with a Mewtwo player and just occasionally threw out down B. I hit with it when he was at 0 damage, then got a forward smash off before he got back up and that was the whole stock. 2 hits took an entire stock. The risk/reward ratio is way off. It's not nearly as dangerous to use as a falcon punch or and Ike forward smash but the reward is insane. I got one off in most of my matches. For low level smashers this will be completely broken.

 

[osby]

The major reason why this is a concern is that unlike previous games, the entire base roster will be revealed pre-release. If the last characters are either safe or highly expected, that's definitely not going to produce as much hype when it's needed most: when the game actually releases.

I mean, pre-orders are a thing, and Ultimate is probably the best selling game of the year at the moment two months prior to its release.

I don't really get the logic of "hype the game just before it releases", since most people need some time before deciding getting the game or not.

 

[Iridium]

I like this one.

Spoiler: Eh.

Anyway, I'm just bored because I want to analyze new footage (assuming it has already been recorded). Not much else I can see or speak about.

Spoiler

At least the avatar and signature are cool. I'll think about birds later.

 

[Pazzo.]

Big characters are just bigger targets.

Prodigious size alone does not dissuade the sharpened blade!

ultroy:

 

[HeroOfClocktown]

Are we forgetting Isabelle's reveal wasn't from a SMASH direct? It was just a general Nintendo software direct. They happened to show off Animal crossing and must of thought during the production of the direct "Hey, Isabelle's in Smash - let's fit her reveal in this direct along with the Animal Crossing announcement"

I don't think it was made to WOW anyone. It just fit with the theme.

 

[UberMadman]

How about a different topic to get away from the hostility?

I got to try Ridley at Big House on Sunday, and let me tell you, down B needs to be nerved. I know in competitive it won't be very useful, but in casual it will be insane. I did a 1v1 with a Mewtwo player and just occasionally threw out down B. I hit with it when he was at 0 damage, then got a forward smash off before he got back up and that was the whole stock. 2 hits took an entire stock. The risk/reward ratio is way off. It's not nearly as dangerous to use as a falcon punch or and Ike forward smash but the reward is insane. I got one off in most of my matches. For low level smashers this will be completely broken.

I think even casual players will eventually realize that you can just press left/right after getting hit to be able to avoid any followups from Ridley.

 

[Deleted member]

I like this one.

Spoiler: Eh.

Anyway, I'm just bored because I want to analyze new footage (assuming it has already been recorded). Not much else I can see or speak about.

Spoiler

At least the avatar and signature are cool. I'll think about birds later.

If Marth spoke in broken English instead of KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN I'd like his English voice so much more.

 

[Untouch]

It looks like the demo booths at TBH had stocks/hazards off as the standard, did anyone get to try Green Greens?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

How about a different topic to get away from the hostility?

I got to try Ridley at Big House on Sunday, and let me tell you, down B needs to be nerved. I know in competitive it won't be very useful, but in casual it will be insane. I did a 1v1 with a Mewtwo player and just occasionally threw out down B. I hit with it when he was at 0 damage, then got a forward smash off before he got back up and that was the whole stock. 2 hits took an entire stock. The risk/reward ratio is way off. It's not nearly as dangerous to use as a falcon punch or and Ike forward smash but the reward is insane. I got one off in most of my matches. For low level smashers this will be completely broken.

People will quickly adapt and learn to avoid Ridley's down-b with ease, at which point it's going be useless and only serve as a noob killer. Like, it's just as slow as Ike's F-Smash, but also has a sweetspot you need to land at the same time, it won't take long for it to be known as a proper meme attack.

Of course it being a noob killer is an issue for the less skilled players, but it really shouldn't be, a proper ranked mode would more or less eliminate that concern in any serious environment.

 

[osby]

People will quickly adapt and learn to avoid Ridley's down-b with ease, at which point it's going be useless and only serve as a noob killer. Like, it's just as slow as Ike's F-Smash, but also has a sweetspot you need to land at the same time, it won't take long for it to be known as a proper meme attack.

Of course it being a noob killer is an issue for the less skilled players, but it really shouldn't be, a proper ranked mode would more or less eliminate that concern in any serious environment.

I think Ridley is going to be the Little Mac of the Ultimate.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

How about a different topic to get away from the hostility?

I got to try Ridley at Big House on Sunday, and let me tell you, down B needs to be nerved. I know in competitive it won't be very useful, but in casual it will be insane. I did a 1v1 with a Mewtwo player and just occasionally threw out down B. I hit with it when he was at 0 damage, then got a forward smash off before he got back up and that was the whole stock. 2 hits took an entire stock. The risk/reward ratio is way off. It's not nearly as dangerous to use as a falcon punch or and Ike forward smash but the reward is insane. I got one off in most of my matches. For low level smashers this will be completely broken.

I'd just ignore posts about endless circular speculation and neediness for reveals. They just don't have anything to talk about even built in...

So, do you consider yourself generally a good Smash player? I'm guessing yes. What I've seen of Ridley down-B has the various known downsides of using it at a high level (too slow/too particular). At a low level, it seems to have a very narrow sweetspot that requires spacing kinda away from the opponent. If you're good at Smash, that's going to be pretty realistic to hit with a lot if your opponent isn't actively making real problems for you, but I'm guessing a lot of actual low level players are going to find actually connecting against a target who is moving at all really hard. Of course you were kinda feasting on people who weren't familiar/comfortable and are probably the type of player who doesn't really have problems spacing his attacks anyway, and while it will certainly in the final game be a very powerful option for strong players to just humiliate weaker players, I don't think it looks likely to be a game dominator in matches involving all weaker players. I'm sure some low level players will really latch on to the ability to throw out one move like this and go for winning it all at once and will focus on practicing it (the same way you sometimes saw low level Melee players who picked Jigglypuff and basically just spammed Rest), but I suspect the buffs to Little Mac and Ike are going to relatively make far bigger waves on the lower rungs of the skill ladder since both of them are basically steamrollers against opponents who don't know what those shoulder buttons do.