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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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osby

Smash Obsessed
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Actually its:

Melee: Peach, Ice Climbers, Marth (3)
Brawl: Pit, Pokemon Trainer, Toon Link (3)
Wii U/3DS: Villager (1)
and of course Ultimate: Inkling (1)
Actually, 3DS had Rosalina, Luma, Little Mac and Villager. That's three fighters.

Also: Only Smash For newcomer featured on the Ultimate cover is Villager. Not suprising, considering how hard this game goes for nostalgia. Two of them are cut characters: Pokemon Trainer and Ice Climbers.

EDIT: Nevermind, I got it completely wrong.
 
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Curious Villager

Puzzles...
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Actually its:

Melee: Peach, Ice Climbers, Marth (3)
Brawl: Pit, Pokemon Trainer, Toon Link (3)
Wii U/3DS: Villager (1)
and of course Ultimate: Inkling (1)
Their talking about the newcomers in previous box arts from past Smash games, not the Smash Ultimate boxart, which only has Inkling's as the sole newcomer at the front cover.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I mean, if you do that, it'll just devolve into this instead.

Ha ha, yeah, that's pretty much what this always turns into. :p

TBH I feel like I'm done talking about that thing. Thinking back on it, it truly doesn't matter if we can prove it real or fake, as the only thing that'll do that is the final roster, which at that point, who cares what theories were right and wrong? Speculation for the base game will be over.
 

SlickWylde

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Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
 

staindgrey

I have a YouTube channel.
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Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
Nope. Not once in my life. For any game. Ever.
 

CosmicQuark

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The video Nintendo just released for the new games coming to Switch Online has more dislikes than likes. Ouch. I guess this is what happens when you suddenly paywall all of your online and tack on a bunch of stuff barely any of your consumer base actually wants.
Yeah, they really bungled up what was a good idea. I'd love a Netflix of Nintendo's game library--it's not there yet, though. The Direct announcing the Online Service reiterated... everything we already knew. The only service they never specified previously were the special offers... which in the Direct they said they weren't going to reveal yet. And what was revealed previously was already... lackluster.

The only advantage is its cheap, but that doesn't mean it can have little to no value to be considered a reasonable purchase. I'll never use the phone app, don't care about my saves potentially getting lost, only care about a couple NES games that I can already play on my Wii U, and the online service is no better than when it was free for an entire year. And the hope was perhaps there'd be interesting online games or additions to previous ones to get people on board. Except--Mario Kart 8 didn't get anything, Mario Party is only mini games online, LGPE only has online trading with friends. The only online game worth anything (imho) is Smash, so I can wait until December before coughing up the $20.

And of course, I should say, despite it having little to no value to me personally, apparently it's been selling very well--so it does have enough value for most people.
 

Pakky

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Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
I've thought about seeing how the Springman thing stumped some people (Even though I knew just about everything that he did when it came to the models...And people told me I was wrong...)

Though HOT TAKE: I've never liked this kind of culture, its a waste of time, skill, and talent to trick people just to promote you're own projects.
 
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amazonevan19

Smash Ace
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Sep 27, 2018
Messages
917
Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
I've lowkey thought about doing it but I'm not skilled enough to really make a leak look convincing, and I don't want to contribute to false hopes.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
I used to make silly April Fools jokes on another forum a long time ago, but I'm not a fan of doing that kind of stuff anymore.
 

Sigran101

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We have not had any droughts this Smash cycle. We get an absurd amount of information overload almost every month, with Isabelle being a small exception. Of this community truly cannot go a month without getting a newcomer, I don't qualify it as a drought, I would call our community ungrateful.
I hate this mindset people have of people being "ungrateful" as if sakurai is making this game for us out of the goodness of his heart. He's making the game for a business to make money. If we don't like it, we don't have to. It's not like he's just giving us something. He's asking us to pay sixty dollars for his product. Everything he "gives" us is a marketing pitch to try and convince us to pay 60 dollars. Honestly it seems like some people think Nintendo is a charity rather than a business.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
I thought of it at one point, but I didn't want the mods to come at me.

That being said, I did make an April Fools video discussing a "leaked roster" once (I just never put it on Smashboards)
Looking back on it, it was obvious that it was fake, because I added characters that were too new like Min Min and Rex & Pyra, and the fact that I put in unlikely characters like Chibi Robo and Crash Bandicoot
 
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Flyboy

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Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
Funnily enough, I never have despite enjoying fun fake leaks and Photoshopping stuff. I more enjoy seeing other people make them and putting my faith in stuff like "There has been no Xenoblade content on the blog, does this mean something?" and "if I Like every single Ayumi/Phoenix/Arle/Elma/Neku/Travis post my enthusiasm will make them popular via osmosis".

It's been a fun time even if the "Ken/Incineroar/Dixie/Shantae/Skull Kid/Geno" spiral in every "leak" gets so boring.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I hate this mindset people have of people being "ungrateful" as if sakurai is making this game for us out of the goodness of his heart. He's making the game for a business to make money. If we don't like it, we don't have to. It's not like he's just giving us something. He's asking us to pay sixty dollars for his product. Everything he "gives" us is a marketing pitch to try and convince us to pay 60 dollars. Honestly it seems like some people think Nintendo is a charity rather than a business.
Agreed, people have the right to like what they like and dislike what they dislike. Everyone has their own tastes, right?

For some, "Everyone is here!" was great. However, there are people disappointed that means less newcomers. I do not think that makes anyone "entitled" or "spoiled", it is simply a preference. As much as I love the concept, I won't lie and say that less new characters is slightly disappointing to me. I understand it and I am okay with it, but on the same token, I would have loved to see some more new content as well. My hope for DLC is that it will mostly focus on Wii U and Switch era properties, as there is so much there that could make for very fun and interesting Smash content. To each their own, though. :)
 

osby

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I hate this mindset people have of people being "ungrateful" as if sakurai is making this game for us out of the goodness of his heart. He's making the game for a business to make money. If we don't like it, we don't have to. It's not like he's just giving us something. He's asking us to pay sixty dollars for his product. Everything he "gives" us is a marketing pitch to try and convince us to pay 60 dollars. Honestly it seems like some people think Nintendo is a charity rather than a business.
Yeah, but business generally doesn't require giving daily new information about the product.

Let's face it, Sakurai has no obligation to do DOJO or PotD, it was just fanservice. In the end we DO get information about the game we plan to purchase.

Of course this is just about blog. Being grateful about anything else in the game is still not bad, since the game has a lot more content than other games with the same price.
 

NapoleonDos

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
73
I hate this mindset people have of people being "ungrateful" as if sakurai is making this game for us out of the goodness of his heart. He's making the game for a business to make money. If we don't like it, we don't have to. It's not like he's just giving us something. He's asking us to pay sixty dollars for his product. Everything he "gives" us is a marketing pitch to try and convince us to pay 60 dollars. Honestly it seems like some people think Nintendo is a charity rather than a business.
I work in marketing. If you think the level of attention Smash Bros gets is common for almost any other product, much less any other game, then you don't understand how marketing works.
We get more than a 60 dollar game merits. If you somehow feel this is untrue, please prove otherwise.
Until then, damn straight, I'm calling this community ungrateful. Wanting news every day? That's not the standard. Don't conflate this argument with your distaste for others' opinions.
 

Nekoo

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Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
I made the post, the day before the 8.8.18 direct in 4chan saying that
"I, lord Chrom need to make my way down page 10 at Midnight and I'll be announced tomorrow in smash"

It became a weird RP post with people ****posting.
Little did I know, the whole meme magic happened, condition were fullfilled and Chrom was announced.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I work in marketing. If you think the level of attention Smash Bros gets is common for almost any other product, much less any other game, then you don't understand how marketing works.
We get more than a 60 dollar game merits. If you somehow feel this is untrue, please prove otherwise.
Until then, damn straight, I'm calling this community ungrateful. Wanting news every day? That's not the standard. Don't conflate this argument with your distaste for others' opinions.
Where were they complaining about news output? Even if they were, they seem pretty reasonable with what they're saying. They're not screaming and hollering for more, they're just voicing an opinion on a subject and sharing preference. I don't think that's ungrateful.
 

amazonevan19

Smash Ace
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Messages
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I work in marketing. If you think the level of attention Smash Bros gets is common for almost any other product, much less any other game, then you don't understand how marketing works.
We get more than a 60 dollar game merits. If you somehow feel this is untrue, please prove otherwise.
Until then, damn straight, I'm calling this community ungrateful. Wanting news every day? That's not the standard. Don't conflate this argument with your distaste for others' opinions.
Damn bro the hostility.

It's a simple argument: Nintendo is publishing a game. We as consumers in a market society have a choice to purchase the product or not.

By your logic, review sites like Yelp are now entirely delegitimized because people should be "grateful" for the services/products companies bestow on them.

That's not how it works.

It doesn't mean we should treat Nintendo and Sakurai like **** but it also doesn't mean we have any special obligation to shower them with praise, either. Nintendo needs to EARN our praise, trust, and hard-earned dollars.
 

TMNTSSB4

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He says "Buy my virus and kiss my ..." well, I'm sure you can finish it.

As for stopping... We clearly need to go further.
You’re going to love this, trust me. What you’re seeing now is a normal post.
*sans*
This is a Sans ****post.
*death*
And this is a Sans ****post that has ascended past a Sans ****post. Or you can just call this a Sans ****post 2.

And THIS IS TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND.
Get this wholesome content out of my speculative theory echochamber.


goku yelling for 5 minutes to the tune of megalovania
NO! STOP IT GOKU!
"I have to reach a level *ngh* BEYOND!" HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

:ultyounglink::ulttoonlink::ultlink:: HAAAAAAA!

:ultinkling::Woomy!
Ultra Instinct Sansling screaming the longest HIYA of all time while the Megalovania Fortnite mashup tune plays in the background...and he also does every single Fortnite dance mixed with every DBZ fighting technique and shouting out Woomy all at once inside of the ink of the dead Inklings/Octolings all around the multimensional universe
 

NapoleonDos

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
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Damn bro the hostility.

It's a simple argument: Nintendo is publishing a game. We as consumers in a market society have a choice to purchase the product or not.

By your logic, review sites like Yelp are now entirely delegitimized because people should be "grateful" for the services/products companies bestow on them.

That's not how it works.

It doesn't mean we should treat Nintendo and Sakurai like **** but it also doesn't mean we have any special obligation to shower them with praise, either. Nintendo needs to EARN our praise, trust, and hard-earned dollars.
I don't appreciate the hypocrisy in the idea that my opinion of other people's opinions is somehow "less than."
What I'm reading is "more, I need more, we aren't given new information, it's been too long."
Yes. I find that ungrateful that we get as much as we do, and as far as my opinion goes, I'd personally rather be surprised with it all than have it all spoiled.
There is no satiating fan demand for information. No matter how much we are given it would not be enough. That is what I am reading and I standby- ungrateful. Why is it okay to call my opinion hostile or illegitimate, but the opinions elsewise are rainbows?
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Damn bro the hostility.

It's a simple argument: Nintendo is publishing a game. We as consumers in a market society have a choice to purchase the product or not.

By your logic, review sites like Yelp are now entirely delegitimized because people should be "grateful" for the services/products companies bestow on them.

That's not how it works.

It doesn't mean we should treat Nintendo and Sakurai like **** but it also doesn't mean we have any special obligation to shower them with praise, either. Nintendo needs to EARN our praise, trust, and hard-earned dollars.
That's not their point and you know it. The point is barely any game gets this kind of daily thing until release and demanding more stuff is pretty ungrateful. Sure, the daily updates aren't exciting as they blew their load but still
 

Fenriraga

You have the strength to overcome your destiny!
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I made the post, the day before the 8.8.18 direct in 4chan saying that
"I, lord Chrom need to make my way down page 10 at Midnight and I'll be announced tomorrow in smash"

It became a weird RP post with people ****posting.
Little did I know, the whole meme magic happened, condition were fullfilled and Chrom was announced.
OUR PROPHET AND MESIAH HAS AT LAST REVEALED HIMSELF.

Quick, RP with me about Geno!

Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
I can't deny that I've been tempted to.

It'd be kinda moot at this point though. The most I could get away with while still being "convincing" is Putting Ken, Incineroar and SE rep (Geno) onto a leak with like, one more echo maybe, and pull some stuff out of my ass about Spirits mode. That's boring.
 
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Sigran101

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I work in marketing. If you think the level of attention Smash Bros gets is common for almost any other product, much less any other game, then you don't understand how marketing works.
We get more than a 60 dollar game merits. If you somehow feel this is untrue, please prove otherwise.
Until then, damn straight, I'm calling this community ungrateful. Wanting news every day? That's not the standard. Don't conflate this argument with your distaste for others' opinions.
First of all, it's not distaste for other's opinions. It's distaste for other's judgmental and condescending comments. Second, I realize smash has more news than other games. That doesn't mean I'm being ungrateful if I wish we had more news. It's not like I'm going "Man, Nintendo's being ridiculous not having more news. It's bad marketing". I'm going "Lack of news is making me crazy" which is true. I'm allowed to wish there was more news. Just because Smash has lots of news still doesn't mean it's a charity that I should be grateful for. Smash isn't getting so much attention because Sakurai wants to make us happy. THAT would be a lack of understanding of marketing. It's getting attention because it's a huge game that needs a lot of expo, especially with only 6 months to reveal stuff. Ungrateful implies I should be thanking Sakurai for his service. The goal of all this marketing is still to get us to spend money. unreasonable? You can argue that. I still don't agree. but ungrateful or entitled? No. that's silly.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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I think a lot of people are missing the point.

Not every company does stuff like Nintendo does with their Directs. Sony and Microsoft don’t do that, they will just reveal a gameplay trailer.

If they did that with Smash, people on this website would be rioting and complaining we haven’t gotten a new character. The point isn’t that people can’t voice their opinions. They absolutely should.

The point is more that people are complaining and saying it’s “a drought” not because it’s actully a drought but because they want more...despite the fact that weave already gotten a ton of information.

I don’t believe anyone who says they aren’t going to buy this game because there hasn’t been news in a month. That’s ridiculous in itself to say something like that, or imply that people following Smash the way many of us do would suddenly not buy the game...just because they didn’t give us news when we wanted it? Really?

I’m not going to say some of us need to take our mind off of Smash, because it’s exciting. But for real, some people really do need to find other stuff to take up their time. The way this thread especially blasts through a Direct and then says, “When are we getting more?” suggests that there isn’t any value being placed on the amount of information.

Either that, or people aren’t counting news they don’t care about as “real news”.

That’s another problem in itself.

Point is, it’s not going to cater to people just because they want more. In fact, that means their marketing seems to be working because you WANT more information. They can’t just constantly put new stuff out all the time.

You can want more information, that’s fine. Just understand that when we get information, we get a lot of it typically. Not to mention, Nintendo has plenty of other titles they need to cover, not just Smash.

Go ahead and hate me for saying it, but we need patience. People are freaking out over 1 month? How about at least a year like previous Smash games?

We’ve got it good.
 
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CosmicQuark

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,519
Agreed, people have the right to like what they like and dislike what they dislike. Everyone has their own tastes, right?

For some, "Everyone is here!" was great. However, there are people disappointed that means less newcomers. I do not think that makes anyone "entitled" or "spoiled", it is simply a preference. As much as I love the concept, I won't lie and say that less new characters is slightly disappointing to me. I understand it and I am okay with it, but on the same token, I would have loved to see some more new content as well. My hope for DLC is that it will mostly focus on Wii U and Switch era properties, as there is so much there that could make for very fun and interesting Smash content. To each their own, though. :)
Indeed. I can simultaneously be disappointed in not getting more new characters and still think it was right to have "Everyone is Here"--it's the perfect opportunity in Smash's history to do it, and on that concept, they've succeeded immensely. Personally, it's tough to see any newcomers (outside of the obvious one) that would truly appeal to me. I've yet to play a game with a single newcomer, and if the ones rumored are all there is, that's not going to change. Whereas Brawl, I had Sonic, and 4, I had Mega Man and Pac-Man. The most exciting character in Smash Ultimate to me is--Pokemon Trainer. It's just with less newcomers, it's also unlikely for any of the newcomers to appeal to any one person personally. It's highly dependent on luck. That doesn't mean I can't be happy for those who are excited for Inkling, Ridley, Simon, King K Rool.

As for the "information drought"--they could have spread out information more evenly. At the very least hold off of the veteran character trailers, so that in between newcomer announcements, we could learn new information about old characters each week. And even Sakurai admitted that they went overboard, which is weird for a developer to say of a game that has highly controlled release of information. The bright side is this is also the shortest hype cycle, and in less than two months, we'll be playing it.
 
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NapoleonDos

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
73
First of all, it's not distaste for other's opinions. It's distaste for other's judgmental and condescending comments. Second, I realize smash has more news than other games. That doesn't mean I'm being ungrateful if I wish we had more news. It's not like I'm going "Man, Nintendo's being ridiculous not having more news. It's bad marketing". I'm going "Lack of news is making me crazy" which is true. I'm allowed to wish there was more news. Just because Smash has lots of news still doesn't mean it's a charity that I should be grateful for. Smash isn't getting so much attention because Sakurai wants to make us happy. THAT would be a lack of understanding of marketing. It's getting attention because it's a huge game that needs a lot of expo, especially with only 6 months to reveal stuff. Ungrateful implies I should be thanking Sakurai for his service. The goal of all this marketing is still to get us to spend money. unreasonable? You can argue that. I still don't agree. but ungrateful or entitled? No. that's silly.
If you want to interpret the word ungrateful as being condescending, that's on you, not me.
I mentioned no one by name, and certainly not you, I just quoted a post.
The only one attacking any individual here is you. If you do not find irony in this, then we can continue via PM. My opinion is that from what I've read, this community is acting ungrateful. I'm not calling you a name, I'm not even jumping to conclusions- I'm directly describing the behavior I'm seeing. Just as you called me condescending, I'm not gonna go ballistic for you having your opinion. Again. irony.
 

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
I made the post, the day before the 8.8.18 direct in 4chan saying that
"I, lord Chrom need to make my way down page 10 at Midnight and I'll be announced tomorrow in smash"

It became a weird RP post with people ****posting.
Little did I know, the whole meme magic happened, condition were fullfilled and Chrom was announced.
Rp with me about Sora meeting Cooking Mama... Please.
 

Sigran101

Smash Master
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Sigran101
I think a lot of people are missing the point.

Not every company does stuff like Nintendo does with their Directs. Sony and Microsoft don’t do that, they will just reveal a gameplay trailer.

If they did that with Smash, people on this website would be rioting and complaining we haven’t gotten a new character. The point isn’t that people can’t voice their opinions. They absolutely should.

The point is more that people are complaining and saying it’s “a drought” not because it’s actully a drought but because they want more...despite the fact that weave already gotten a ton of information.

I don’t believe anyone who says they aren’t going to buy this game because there hasn’t been news in a month. That’s ridiculous in itself to say something like that, or imply that people following Smash the way many of us do would suddenly not buy the game...just because they didn’t give us news when we wanted it? Really?

I’m not going to say some of us need to take our mind off of Smash, because it’s exciting. But for real, some people really do need to find other stuff to take up their time. The way this thread especially blasts through a Direct and then says, “When are we getting more?” suggests that there isn’t any value being placed on the amount of information.

Either that, or people aren’t counting news they don’t care about as “real news”.

That’s another problem in itself.

Point is, it’s not going to cater to people just because they want more. In fact, that means their marketing seems to be working because you WANT more information. They can’t just constantly put new stuff out all the time.

You can want more information, that’s fine. Just understand that when we get information, we get a lot of it typically. Not to mention, Nintendo has plenty of other titles they need to cover, not just Smash.
No one is saying we won't buy the game because there wasn't enough news. I for one am simply objecting to the term "ungrateful". Unreasonable can be argued but we need to understand that Nintendo's job is to convince us. If our standards are too high and we aren't convinced, then it doesn't make us ungrateful, because they weren't just giving us stuff. They were asking for sixty dollars. Basically, just don't make it into some kind of moral issue by using words like ungrateful and entitled. And for the record, I'm not even saying there's a drought or that I'm not impressed. I simply said I'm currently going crazy waiting for news and was called ungrateful.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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I made the post, the day before the 8.8.18 direct in 4chan saying that
"I, lord Chrom need to make my way down page 10 at Midnight and I'll be announced tomorrow in smash"

It became a weird RP post with people ****posting.
Little did I know, the whole meme magic happened, condition were fullfilled and Chrom was announced.
RP with me about a Rhythm Heaven rep please,
Thank you
 
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NextChannelGames

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
383
I made the post, the day before the 8.8.18 direct in 4chan saying that
"I, lord Chrom need to make my way down page 10 at Midnight and I'll be announced tomorrow in smash"

It became a weird RP post with people ****posting.
Little did I know, the whole meme magic happened, condition were fullfilled and Chrom was announced.
That’s funny :joyful:
 

DaybreakHorizon

The guy who predicted Sora as Fighter 11
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
9,604
Location
The Shadow World
NNID
tehponycorn
3DS FC
4253-3486-4603
Question for the regulars (aka people who've been here for more than a week or 2 and consistently) - Have any of you guys made fake leaks on other sites, and then linked to it here, hoping to get us to discuss it? No judgment, just curious. Wondering if anyone will own up to it haha. I'm pretty confident it's happened... am I right?
Besides an obviously fake Boshi leak, no.
 

Untouch

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
3,783
I'd really like Cooking Mama as a WTF pick.
People would be upset (as always), but the series is more notable and iconic than a lot of the stuff people suggest.
 
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