Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Waluigi is not getting in]

There has been a lot of Shadow the hedgehog supporters recently.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So uh

That Smash/Aces/ARMS event going on in Japan right now. Anyone at least got a video link to it???

No Splatoon though...that’s evil

There has been a lot of Shadow the hedgehog supporters recently.

because everyone loves the edge

 

[osby]

There has been a lot of Shadow the hedgehog supporters recently.

Didn't suprised given there are a lot of Sonic fans here and Smash speculation hivemind no longer hates clones.

 

[SonicMario]

No because the entire purpose of Ultimate is "Everyone is here". That is the hook of the game so no...

I wasn't saying I'd prefer having it done that way. I am very glad they went with "Everyone is Here!" to start it all off because it was such a huge sigh of relief for many character's fans.

I was saying imagine the speculation period how tense things would be if they had set character reveals like that. A lot of people would be on pins and needles all the way from E3 to right now if they set it up like that.

 

[Knight Dude]

That does beg the question on just how different Ken's gonna end up. Even if he's based on SF2 Ken, the one most similar to Ryu, some of Ryu's attacks are exclusive to him. Namely his Forward Smash is his Donkey Kick from the SF3 games, he has the Solar Plexus Punch, and his Focus Attack is a Punch instead of Ken's Kick Focus Attack.

I would say the Red Hadouken too, but Ken recently got something pretty similar with his V-Trigger in SFV, giving his Hadoken's a fire effect.

 

[Aurane]

I know its random but a small part of me hoped Ridley had a Firebrand color alt.

 

[NuNero1]

It's kind of ironic that the same people begging for specific Echo Characters are the same people who criticized clones in the previous smash titles. Times do change, lol

 

[Knight Dude]

Didn't suprised given there are a lot of Sonic fans here and Smash speculation hivemind no longer hates clones.

Tails or go home.

Mostly because Knuckles is an Assist Trophy.

People don't mind the clones now mostly because we've got literally everyone back. Hence no "slot taking". I'd still prefer "clones" that had some differences to the original in some substantial gameplay way. Hence my previous statements on Protoman and even Ken.

It'd be cool if later down the line Dark Samus or Dark Pit slowly got a few more original moves much like Luigi and Falco.

 

[Cosmic77]

A small part of me hates Ridley being revealed so soon; as my most wanted newcomer I have been longing for that moment for AGES, now that it's past I am concentrating on my next most wanted, Mr. Skull Kid. If he is not in, I fear I'll feel dissapointed, even though I am more than aware that this game is giving me waaaay too much and it's kinda selfish of me to feel like that. If Ridley would have been kept for the last reveal, I wouldn't have had time to shift to Skull Kid, and hence, he would have felt as a last gift.


Like I said, only a small part of me. The other bigger part is entirely happy with this roster and game and honestly would pay money in a kickstarter campaign for a community's gift for Sakurai at this point.

That's how spoiled I feel by Nintendo/how much I want Skull Kid.

These are ambiguous times, people.

I'm actually really happy Ridley was shown off so soon. Getting revealed at an event as huge as E3 as one of the first two unique newcomers for "the Ultimate Smash game" is a huge honor. Feels like a nice compensation for the fans after years of some pretty ugly "too big" debates.

But yeah, I can see where you're coming from. You can kinda forget what you already have if you get caught up in supporting unconfirmed characters.

 

[osby]

Tails or go home.

Mostly because Knuckles is an Assist Trophy.

People don't mind the clones now mostly because we've got literally everyone back.

I really don't hope anyone more than an echo but Tails also would be cool.

And yikes, now I remembered some people used to think clones can steal the slot of other characters. I'm glad we left those dark days behind.

 

[Idon]

That does beg the question on just how different Ken's gonna end up. Even if he's based on SF2 Ken, the one most similar to Ryu, some of Ryu's attacks are exclusive to him. Namely his Forward Smash is his Donkey Kick from the SF3 games, he has the Solar Plexus Punch, and his Focus Attack is a Punch instead of Ken's Kick Focus Attack.

I would say the Red Hadouken too, but Ken recently got something pretty similar with his V-Trigger in SFV, giving his Hadoken's a fire effect.

My guess?

Stronger Shoryuken with multi-hit fire. Weaker and/or slower hadoken. Kicking focus attack.
Oooooor...
Lucina style simplification.
Stronger basic special moves, but unable to do the stronger "true" motions.

 

[Autobot N]

And yikes, now I remembered some people used to think clones can steal the slot of other characters. I'm glad we left those dark days behind.

dArK pIt ToOk RiDlEy'S sPoT

 

[Graizen]

Hello people!

News on Smash?

 

[Aurane]

I really don't hope anyone more than an echo but Tails also would be cool.

And yikes, now I remembered some people used to think clones can steal the slot of other characters. I'm glad we left those dark days behind.

Well, Clones still take time to make, just like any other character. So in technicality, they could "steal" slots.

 

[Fenriraga]

I still can't believe we're less than two months out to another Smash game. 4 feels like it was yesterday, jeez.

 

[Eru13]

No Splatoon though...that’s evil

because everyone loves the edge

Splatoon is too big to share a tournament, it's so big in japan they get regional qualifier tournaments

 

[Knight Dude]

My guess?

Stronger Shoryuken with multi-hit fire. Weaker and/or slower hadoken. Kicking focus attack.
Oooooor...
Lucina style simplification.
Stronger basic special moves, but unable to do the stronger "true" motions.

Well, the Shoryuken seems pretty obvious. Don't forget that Ken's Tatsu is usually Multi-Hit too. His Hadoken being slower/weaker makes sense, Ryu's Fireballs were always stronger.

Hello people!

News on Smash?

The game got delayed to 2020, just like Kingdom Hearts 3.

 

[Aurane]

Well, Clones still take time to make, just like any other character. So in technicality, they could "steal" slots.

Not in a literal sense by the way. But if they take time to make this character, it leaves less time to make that character. Its like the Mewtwo case in Brawl.

 

[staindgrey]

Wait so actual competitive Mario Tennis Aces is a legit thing now?

Honestly?

It's a pretty damn good fighting game.

 

[Pyra]

Not in a literal sense by the way. But if they take time to make this character, it leaves less time to make that character. Its like the Mewtwo case in Brawl.

Wouldn't that imply that they were gonna do the other character to begin with in most other cases

 

[Will]

There has been a lot of Shadow the hedgehog supporters recently.

Probably because he's one of the top dogs of "where the **** is he he has to be in bros he has to be!!!"

 

[staindgrey]

Not in a literal sense by the way. But if they take time to make this character, it leaves less time to make that character. Its like the Mewtwo case in Brawl.

Did... did you just quote yourself?

Also, clones are added as extras later on in development, usually to fill a spot that couldn't be filled by the original idea due to either manpower, technical limitations or the idea just plain not working. They don't "steal" so much as replace what wasn't going to make it in anymore anyway.

 

[Will]

Smash speculation hivemind no longer hates clones.

Oh please, they hate clones, but not in that way. They only hate clones if they're characters who they didn't want to be clones, like Dixie Kong. Some people are just hellbent that she would never be one.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I appreciate Echoes for getting more characters in the game, but at the same time they mildly irritate me by being somehow being even less distinct than the Melee clones. Like, Melee was a total rushjob and got 6 clones, but they had genuinely distinct differences. Pichu and Young Link had speed and size differences, Ganondorf had two (or more?) different moves from Captain Falcon, along with different physics, and despite Falco having literally identical moves to Fox, they all function completely different.

Meanwhile Smash 4/Ultimate clones are practically interchangeable with their counterparts, other than MAYBE the Fire Emblem Echoes due to their consistency differences (and Chrom's Up-B). Like for god's sake, is it too much to ask that Dark Pit's normals have different knockback and/or combo differently from Pit's? All that's different is Arrow, a different angle on Side B, and a slightly weaker Forward Tilt. I can understand the philosophy behind Lucina and Chrom, but if Dark Pit is unchanged from Smash 4 and all the other new Echoes are just as similar as him, I'll be a little upset.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Oh please, they hate clones, but not in that way. They only hate clones if they're characters who they didn't want to be clones, like Dixie Kong. Some people are just hellbent that she would never be one.

Imo, Dixie will not make it in, unless she's an echo or a semi clone...
There's already a DK rep in Ultimate and that's K. Rool. And assuming the very limited roster we have this time, I think Sakurai would want to focus on other franchises and characters
Imagine the uproar if Dixie was a standard newcomer... Actually, people are gonna be upset either way...

 

[Dan_Sic]

I'm actually really happy Ridley was shown off so soon. Getting revealed at an event as huge as E3 as one of the first two unique newcomers for "the Ultimate Smash game" is a huge honor. Feels like a nice compensation for the fans after years of some pretty ugly "too big" debates.

But yeah, I can see where you're coming from. You can kinda forget what you already have if you get caught up in supporting unconfirmed characters.

Yep, I agree on that one. It magnified his reveal to an extent that I felt compensated for the years of waiting (as if Nintendo owed me a thing, lol). But still, 6 months of speculation later the feeling of compensation wears off and the angst and desire for other newcomers overcomes it all.

I love just how dramatic the speculation for fighters in Smash gets, that in itself tells you how beloved this game is (regardless of winy-never-satisfied people)

 

[staindgrey]

Oh please, they hate clones, but not in that way. They only hate clones if they're characters who they didn't want to be clones, like Dixie Kong. Some people are just hellbent that she would never be one.

In their defense, though, Dixie as a Diddy clone makes almost zero sense aside from body proportions. Isabelle and Villager had more in common.

Ganondorf as a Falcon clone makes no sense either, so it could happen, but it still wouldn't make sense.

 

[osby]

I appreciate Echoes for getting more characters in the game, but at the same time they mildly irritate me by being somehow being even less distinct than the Melee clones. Like, Melee was a total rushjob and got 6 clones, but they had genuinely distinct differences. Pichu and Young Link had speed and size differences, Ganondorf had two (or more?) different moves from Captain Falcon, along with different physics, and despite Falco having literally identical moves to Fox, they all function completely different.

Meanwhile Smash 4/Ultimate clones are practically interchangeable with their counterparts, other than MAYBE the Fire Emblem Echoes due to their consistency differences (and Chrom's Up-B). Like for god's sake, is it too much to ask that Dark Pit's normals have different knockback and/or combo differently from Pit's? All that's different is Arrow, a different angle on Side B, and a slightly weaker Forward Tilt. I can understand the philosophy behind Lucina and Chrom, but if Dark Pit is unchanged from Smash 4 and all the other new Echoes are just as similar as him, I'll be a little upset.

To be honest, Melee didn't had 34/63 veterans to bring back.

 

[Pazzo.]

Probably because he's one of the top dogs of "where the **** is he he has to be in bros he has to be!!!"

Pretty much.

Guy might have been yeeted by Knuckles straight out of the game.

 

[staindgrey]

Pretty much.

Guy might have been yeeted by Knuckles straight out of the game.

Good.

Knuckles is ****ing better.

 

[Aurane]

Did... did you just quote yourself?

I was clarifying what I said by quoting it instead of editing it because it was buried by a couple comments. Sometimes the edit isn't noticed in time so I made a post edit instead.

Also, clones are added as extras later on in development, usually to fill a spot that couldn't be filled by the original idea due to either manpower, technical limitations or the idea just plain not working. They don't "steal" so much as replace what wasn't going to make it in anymore anyway.

Now I don't know about that, but what I do know is that without clones, we likely would of never gotten Daisy, so I don't have an issue with it.

 

[Just a random scrub]

>People saying that this smash speculation is the worst

I'll argue that Smash4 was the worst. Between the slow *** reveal of veterans and newcomers, the salt machine that some created, the Gematsu is true vs Wrong and Smash 4 Speculation automatically is the worst thanks to the ballot Era/DLC where people were just ****ting on each others favorite expected DLC and it basically became a political things as if we were voting for our president.


Here the speculation is simple. Everyone is here. After the game reveal we can only be surprised, Vergeben or not, the only dumb things are the Music theory, Box Theory and whatnot...

Who at least have some sort of logic compared to PACMAN IS IN THE CLOUD! RIDLEY IS PLAYABLE HE GRABBED PIKACHU!! K.ROOL WON THE BALLOT! WOLF IS A LOCK FOR DLC **** ROY!!!!


Like, Jesus, the only bad part is the drought. But at least we ain't having dumb argument beside "Muh Geno is IRELEPHANT!" and "DISNEY ARE NAZIS CORPORATE !" Or "Muh box"

Otherwise the speculation was calm

Yeah, as someone who's experienced all the previous speculation cycles (even if I never had an account back then), I'd agree this particular speculation cycle isn't the worst. Nearly all the previous games have had some jacked up crap during the cycles. Like, does anybody that was here during the Brawl days remember something called G-Day?

 

[P.Kat]

That does beg the question on just how different Ken's gonna end up. Even if he's based on SF2 Ken, the one most similar to Ryu, some of Ryu's attacks are exclusive to him. Namely his Forward Smash is his Donkey Kick from the SF3 games, he has the Solar Plexus Punch, and his Focus Attack is a Punch instead of Ken's Kick Focus Attack.

I would say the Red Hadouken too, but Ken recently got something pretty similar with his V-Trigger in SFV, giving his Hadoken's a fire effect.

Unpopular opinion, but I hoping they make Ken without the (sometimes pesky) inputs Ryu has, it's probably the only thing that'll get me hype to play as Ken. Like Ken being a Ryu but with training wheels and other changes. Or just throws a curveball and give us Sakura (really unpopular opinion)

 

[osby]

Yeah, as someone who's experienced all the previous speculation cycles (even if I never had an account back then), I'd agree this particular speculation cycle isn't the worst. Nearly all the previous games have had some jacked up crap during the cycles. Like, does anybody that was here during the Brawl days remember something called G-Day?

I'm scared to ask but what was that?

 

[Deleted member]

Now I don't know about that, but what I do know is that without clones, we likely would of never gotten Daisy, so I don't have an issue with it.

This. If it was the only way to get Dark Samus in, I'll happily take her as an Echo, same with the others. That's just me, though; I am very much a take something over nothing kinda guy, lol.

My thoughts on the next announcement are pretty much the same as ever: I'm personally expecting it around the end of the month. I think there is a chance it could happen next week, but that's the earliest I'm expecting the final Direct to come.

 

[SlickWylde]

I still don't like clones. Not because I'm worried they took up a slot, but because I find them boring in general. It's partly why I never liked other fighting games. I'd be excited to play as a new character only to realize it was another Ryu, or another Katana with slight differences.

I was very happy when Luigi became more separated from Mario. I understand Sakurai's reasoning, but completely disagree with him regarding characters like Lucina needing to be completely different characters. I would prefer her to be a skin.

That said, the idea of being able to place them in the same slot is great, because the roster is already large.

And I'm fine with the amount of characters, so I don't need clones to get more characters in the game.

But I believe I'm in the minority.

So, I would love Banjo & Kazooie, but I wouldn't really want them as a clone of DHD, for instance. In that case, I'd rather not have them at all if they weren't unique.

But I also understand that some of the characters you guys are rooting for could only work as clones, so I try to just let you enjoy your characters.

 

[Just a random scrub]

I'm scared to ask but what was that?

Spoiler: Spoilered just in case

There was a thread on Gamefaqs by someone looking to commit account suicide. It was called Ganondorf is in Brawl.

What it actually was, was a video link of a person (Presumably a WW2 soldier) getting gruesomely decapitated, slowly with a knife, in ridiculous detail.The thread was deleted in minutes, but it was enough to horrify everyone for a while afterwards. The guy's channel was promptly nuked, and it's rumored the FBI even got involved (this is unconfirmed)

 

[osby]

Spoiler: Spoilered just in case

There was a thread on Gamefaqs by someone looking to commit account suicide. It was called Ganondorf is in Brawl.

What it actually was, was a video link of a person (Presumably a WW2 soldier) getting gruesomely decapitated, slowly with a knife, in ridiculous detail.The thread was deleted in minutes, but it was enough to horrify everyone for a while afterwards. The guy's channel was promptly nuked, and it's rumored the FBI even got involved (this is unconfirmed)

Gee, this is really nasty. Internet was wild in 2000s.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Spoiler: Spoilered just in case

There was a thread on Gamefaqs by someone looking to commit account suicide. It was called Ganondorf is in Brawl.

What it actually was, was a video link of a person (Presumably a WW2 soldier) getting gruesomely decapitated, slowly with a knife, in ridiculous detail.The thread was deleted in minutes, but it was enough to horrify everyone for a while afterwards. The guy's channel was promptly nuked, and it's rumored the FBI even got involved (this is unconfirmed)

Ummm,... Wow okay...
Never knew that...
Glad I wasn't really a Smash fan back then

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Anyone more familiar with Famitsu know if there's an issue out this week? I thought it was a weekly magazine.

As far as I know Sakurai has been doing bi-weekly articles and it's been two weeks so I think we could get an article this week (again, probably not reveal related but about some other aspect of the game).