Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Androobie]

Looks very nice but why are Japanese titles obsessed with "RE:"? Does it mean something different over there? Over here it means an email chain.

"RE” is just a playful romanization of 霊感 (reikan), which means supernatural.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

I feel this month is what make or break the box theory. However if they announce a Smash direct this month I feel it favours the box theory immensly.

Like show the base roster with Ken & Incineroar

We still need way more details regarding spirits mode and other modes

end the direct with a teaser for DLC

 

[Deleted member]

The preorder card is a finished product that will likely never be updated or otherwise changed.

I just feel sorry for the sad sap that's gonna have to chunk 16GB out of their SD card to download Smash, god forbid their download speeds lmao

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know, I really thought Bayonetta was the moment when Smash jumped the shark and started letting literally anyone in, but if we get a Granblue character we may as well start campaigning for Shrek and Reggie Fils-aime unironically.

As if a character from a then unreleased game back in Melee wasn't jumping the shark

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I feel this month is what make or break the box theory. However if they announce a Smash direct this month I feel it favours the box theory immensly.

Like show the base roster with Ken & Incineroar

We still need way more details regarding spirits mode and other modes

end the direct with a teaser for DLC

They still have november to announce DLCs, I think that if there is an october Smash Direct, they will focus on different stuff (single player, extra modes, character costumes, Mii customization, etc.)
Also, I think that a regular Direct is very likely too since there are a lot of rumors about the N64 mini, and they may do a Direct to announce it.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

TBH i think i don't mind if the box theory is correct, i've always liked Ken and i like Incineroar now

 

[Guybrush20X6]

"RE” is just a playful romanization of 霊感 (reikan), which means supernatural.

That makes some sense, though I think they also use it as shorthand for "remake" in a couple of titles

I feel this month is what make or break the box theory. However if they announce a Smash direct this month I feel it favours the box theory immensly.

Like show the base roster with Ken & Incineroar

We still need way more details regarding spirits mode and other modes

end the direct with a teaser for DLC

They won't do any work on DLC characters beyond "get activision on the phone, let's see if they'll play nice this time, or jerk us around like they did to Sony back then" and the "wouldn't it be cool if" stages. They'll put the architecture in place so they can add more characters but they won't make any until they get the budget for DLC, which won't happen until the game goes gold. And given that the translation team has only JUST decided to call memories flashbacks, that could be a while.

 

[CosmicQuark]

The box was a (near) final asset that was obviously simply censored. They aren't going to recenter or otherwise modify the image, beyond censoring spoilers.

The preorder card is a finished product that will likely never be updated or otherwise changed.

How can we assume that it was a "near" final asset? That's the whole crux of the Box Theory, and why it's assumptions are questionable. And I've never heard of the claim from box theorists that they were censoring the images--just that they "mistakenly" didn't take into consideration the layout would give the roster away. That last claim is still hard to believe, as if they knew the roster, they'd obviously tell by the negative space they should probably reconsider something. But, still possible I guess.

I don't think, however, that they would intentionally censor the box only to not consider that would give the roster away. It's like the claim that Spirits mode is actually called Spirits, and not a placeholder, despite any reasonable person would know people could potentially unblur images. A placeholder easily prevents any potential for leaks. Smash has made some mistakes and accidentally revealed things, but a lot of these assumptions make those marketing Smash seem like complete morons in comparison. The previous examples are cases where they weren't aware of something they needed to hide. All of these arguments for Box Theory assumes they know what to hide, and still couldn't do it.

 

[Shroob]

That makes some sense, though I think they also use it as shorthand for "remake" in a couple of titles



They won't do any work on DLC characters beyond "get activision on the phone, let's see if they'll play nice this time, or jerk us around like they did to Sony back then" and the "wouldn't it be cool if" stages. They'll put the architecture in place so they can add more characters but they won't make any until they get the budget for DLC, which won't happen until the game goes gold. And given that the translation team has only JUST decided to call memories flashbacks, that could be a while.

We're definitely getting a tease of DLC for the final Smash Direct.

With how 50 facts ended, I fully expend that "X character is on the way!" to happen.

 

[papagenos]

At least I'm hoping it's a character we have zero knowledge of--we need a K Rool like surprise. But yeah, I don't want to go too hard on Hitagi, but I really would like to take him seriously if Verge knows more about him. I just can't at this point, but we'll see.


Ugggggh Alax, that stupid Reddit post and Gamexplain have done everything in their power to obfuscate what's really a simple assumption. It's not like I'm that confident in analyzing the blog as of late (still keeping track in Excel since the August Direct), ever since Sakurai's recent statements. But using the *average* character posts per week to get a *maximum* number of 7-8 characters in the roster is as simple as it gets as "theories" go. It's not as ridiculous as some people claim. Likely? No longer at this point. Improbable? Still not, given there's still ample time for reveals.

yeah its very frustrating blog theory got so much attention when we realistically have several things right now that when added together appear to be pointing to about 4 more characters MAYBE one or two more unkown echos beyond that. maybe.

i think box theory is still in play but with the ever growing possibility of a smash character(s) reveal coming out next week PLUS vergeben and hitagi talking about a square rep and minecraft rep... i'm thinking my idea the box has ken and incineroar on it when it goes into printing (some time after our next reveal(s) which might be next week) and then we'd still have one final smash direct with characters kept off the box for the possibility of:

a square rep/steve?/possibly a final echo or two vergeben isn't aware of

happening in november seems a better guesstimate at how many characters we might be getting than blog theories 7-8 "maximum" number. I'm guessing 4-6 right now, with 4 being more likely than 5 or 6... and of course the box theories "2" is still possible, i just think if we do end up getting a character reveal next week its far less likely ken/incineroar is the end of the road.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

We're definitely getting a tease of DLC for the final Smash Direct.

With how 50 facts ended, I fully expend that "X character is on the way!" to happen.

I remind you, that direct came out AFTER the game released.

And people don't like buying a game on release day, knowing that there's content not included in the base game, it's a bad look.

I don't think we'll see anything DLC until next year.

 

[Shroob]

I remind you, that direct came out AFTER the game released.

And people don't like buying a game on release day, knowing that there's content not included in the base game, it's a bad look.

I don't think we'll see anything DLC until next year.

I never said the DLC would be day one, I said it'd be like Mewtwo.

Mewtwo was very obviously being worked on as Smash 3DS/WiiU ended up ending development, and was even used as a 'promotion' where 'if you buy both games, you get him free!"


And considering how many millions of views Mewtwo reaction videos got, it was a genius marketing ploy.



Sure, the DLC may come out next year, but we WILL get a tease, this is frankly undeniable.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I never said the DLC would be day one, I said it'd be like Mewtwo.

Mewtwo was very obviously being worked on as Smash 3DS/WiiU ended up ending development, and was even used as a 'promotion' where 'if you buy both games, you get him free!"


And considering how many millions of views Mewtwo reaction videos got, it was a genius marketing ploy.



Sure, the DLC may come out next year, but we WILL get a tease, this is frankly undeniable.

The only, and I mean only, we I can see DLC even being talked about this year is if it ties into Nintedo's online. Like, buy Nintendo online and you get Octoling Echos free.

Remember, we're in uncharted territory and there's no veterans left to update. All characters have to either be clones or built from the ground up.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I never said the DLC would be day one, I said it'd be like Mewtwo.

Mewtwo was very obviously being worked on as Smash 3DS/WiiU ended up ending development, and was even used as a 'promotion' where 'if you buy both games, you get him free!"


And considering how many millions of views Mewtwo reaction videos got, it was a genius marketing ploy.



Sure, the DLC may come out next year, but we WILL get a tease, this is frankly undeniable.

I think it's certainly likely, though it's also possible at the Game Awards the day before Smash's release when it comes to DLC. Too late for a base announcement, maybe an okay time for a DLC announcement (might be a little strange--"You know that game you can play tomorrow--here's a character you can't play (yet)").

I don't think Nintendo can pass up the opportunity to have a "free" DLC character with the online subscription. However, they've already bungled up the online service marketing to the point where I'm not as confident in that as I should be.

 

[Jetsurge]

The difference here is Nintendo more or less salvaged Bayonetta from the dumpster, and they personally own a chunk of Cygame's stocks.


I think a Granblue character in Smash is frankly outlandish, but it's literally a win win for both Nintendo and them.


Gives the series exposure in the west via arguably the biggest crossover videogame in history, while both Cygames and Nintendo rake in the profits.

But seriously who would want to buya Granblue character as dlc? They probably wouldn't sell that well.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think the possible newcomers (including echoes) are 2 to 4, not more (in the base roster at least).

As I said in the character speculation thread, so far they released 5 characters each 2 months (I calculated this), and Sakurai said they would slow down.
Since only 2 months are remaining, and 5 characters would not be a slowdown, I think that 4 is the max we can expect.

Also for some reason, I think that 3 is the most likely number.
But more characters will come out as DLC in the future, that's very likely.

 

[Shroob]

The only, and I mean only, we I can see DLC even being talked about this year is if it ties into Nintedo's online. Like, buy Nintendo online and you get Octoling Echos free.

Remember, we're in uncharted territory and there's no veterans left to update. All characters have to either be clones or built from the ground up.

And Mewtwo was built from the ground up, what is your point?


It's not like Brawl where they could probably port the model over and upres it, Mewtwo was from Melee, they had to make him from scratch.


I applaud you for your idealist views of "Sakurai would NEVER make DLC before the game's out!", but the game goes gold in like, probably a few weeks, and is doing nothing but bug testing right now.

If you seriously think that the art and modeling teams are sitting on their hands and doing nothing, you're sorely mistaken.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

That makes some sense, though I think they also use it as shorthand for "remake" in a couple of titles



They won't do any work on DLC characters beyond "get activision on the phone, let's see if they'll play nice this time, or jerk us around like they did to Sony back then" and the "wouldn't it be cool if" stages. They'll put the architecture in place so they can add more characters but they won't make any until they get the budget for DLC, which won't happen until the game goes gold. And given that the translation team has only JUST decided to call memories flashbacks, that could be a while.

Oh should have clarified, I mean more like how they teased Mewtwo. Vergeben also backpedalled with his Square rep in that he says its coming, but its possible as the first DLC character (he honestly is saying this as a selfinsurance, so that people don't witch hunt him if Box theory turns out real)

also a Square rep and I guess Steve would not surprise me as DLC, because then their companies can get a slice of the pie to if people buy the DLC

 

[Shroob]

But seriously who would want to buya Granblue character as dlc? They probably wouldn't sell that well.

Japan.


Look mate, I see your posts over on Gamefaqs crying about how it's 'weeb ****', but yeah, the Japanese 'would' buy it. And hell, the series has been trying to become known in the states for the last year now.


I think it's really ****ing weird, yes, but I also see the logic as to why Nintendo would do it.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think the possible newcomers (including echoes) are 2 to 4, not more (in the base roster at least).

As I said in the character speculation thread, so far they released 5 characters each 2 months (I calculated this), and Sakurai said they would slow down.
Since only 2 months are remaining, and 5 characters would not be a slowdown, I think that 4 is the max we can expect.

Also for some reason, I think that 3 is the most likely number.
But more characters will come out as DLC in the future, that's very likely.

How did you calculate that? Between June and August there were 8 characters. Which is why I (had) thought 8 characters between September and November was reasonable, until Sakurai's slowing down comment. It's difficult, because the number will change depending on the precise time frame you use, but I feel like that's the most natural way to do it.

 

[Shroob]

How did you calculate that? Between June and August there were 8 characters. Which is why I (had) thought 8 characters between September and November was reasonable, until Sakurai's slowing down comment. It's difficult, because the number will change depending on the precise time frame you use, but I feel like that's the most natural way to do it.

I mean, I think most people keeping their expectations lowered and aren't on board with box theory are feeling 3-4, personally.

I know I am.

 

[Nekoo]

Ah yes. People thinking DLC aren't being worked on yet. Very cute.

We are going to get our DLC Tease whenever y'all like it or not. Nintendo is going to milk the **** out of Ultimate especially if the game is développement since 2015, we're in the perfect timeframe where I can garantee you that there a DLC roadplan and a team working on it already.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

And Mewtwo was built from the ground up, what is your point?


It's not like Brawl where they could probably port the model over and upres it, Mewtwo was from Melee, they had to make him from scratch.


I applaud you for your idealist views of "Sakurai would NEVER make DLC before the game's out!", but the game goes gold in like, probably a few weeks, and is doing nothing but bug testing right now.

If you seriously think that the art and modeling teams are sitting on their hands and doing nothing, you're sorely mistaken.

My point is that when movesets already exist they're MUCH easier to implement than making a brand new character, look at how much different Dr. Mario was over Lucina and Dark Pit because he had a template to go off of.

And "nothing but bug testing"? Do you have any idea how long that takes? Especially in a game with this much content and ways for said content to interact? At least a chunk of the art team has to be on hand to help resolve graphical and animation glitches.

Side note: I think we both believe we're both being the pessimistic one in this conversation but for entirely different reasons.

 

[Deleted member]

DLC isn't "made" because they actually have some honor as game devs and believe in a "full game", but they are for sure in Sakurai's notes and mind. I can't see Rex & Pyra not in the top areas on that list, given how he was there at the Japan Game Awards to see the game get an Award for Excellence on top of all the requests for the two to be in the roster.

 

[Shroob]

My point is that when movesets already exist they're MUCH easier to implement than making a brand new character, look at how much different Dr. Mario was over Lucina and Dark Pit because he had a template to go off of.

And "nothing but bug testing"? Do you have any idea how long that takes? Especially in a game with this much content and ways for said content to interact? At least a chunk of the art team has to be on hand to help resolve graphical and animation glitches.

Side note: I think we both believe we're both being the pessimistic one in this conversation but for entirely different reasons.

Riddle me this:

If all they're showing is a work in progress model, like Mewtwo, why the **** does the moveset matter in the teaser?

 

[Zinith]

Question is HOW DLC will be handled, not "if"

 

[CosmicQuark]

I mean, I think most people keeping their expectations lowered and aren't on board with box theory are feeling 3-4, personally.

I know I am.

I have no problem with people lowering their expectations, but I ask to double check so I can keep my expectations in check. There's lowering expectations, and then there's lowering them. People seem to think the latter is less harmful than too high expectations--except, if they're too low, they'll be less excited when surprised than had you had higher expectations ("Few" instead of "Yay"). I know given recent events, if Banjo is revealed I'd be more relieved than ecstatic, the latter being more ideal. But everybody's different, and should keep their expectations for what's right for their personal psychology.

Oh should have clarified, I mean more like how they teased Mewtwo. Vergeben also backpedalled with his Square rep in that he says its coming, but its possible as the first DLC character (he honestly is saying this as a selfinsurance, so that people don't witch hunt him if Box theory turns out real)

also a Square rep and I guess Steve would not surprise me as DLC, because then their companies can get a slice of the pie to if people buy the DLC

If Banjo's not in and neither is Steve, except Steve is the DLC character--I will ****ing cry.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Riddle me this:

If all they're showing is a work in progress model, like Mewtwo, why the **** does the moveset matter in the teaser?

Because that's how the man works. He's not gonna throw up a model and think of a moveset later. It's all part of the design process.

 

[Deleted member]

Question is HOW DLC will be handled, not "if"

I just hope to Christ Sakurai can breathe before he works on the DLC. This game is looking to be the biggest game ever made, let the man rest for a few.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I love how everyone still thinks they can predict Sakurai.

 

[Shroob]

Because that's how the man works. He's not gonna throw up a model and think of a moveset later. It's all part of the design process.

I have to applaud your altruistic mindset of "It won't happen until the game's out", but you're really too naive.

It's better to bite the bullet now and accept the fact that we'll probably get teased for our first DLC character instead of having a heartbreak over Sakurai breaking some imaginary moral.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I just hope to Christ Sakurai can breathe before he works on the DLC. This game is looking to be the biggest game ever made, let the man rest.

Stop kink shame him. We all know that working himself to stress is his kink.
I mean, why can't he stop? Why does he says he will, but always goes on anyways?

 

[Nekoo]

DLC isn't "made" because they actually have some honor as game devs and believe in a "full game", but they are for sure in Sakurai's notes and mind. I can't see Rex & Pyra not in the top areas on that list, given how he was there at the Japan Game Awards to see the game get an Award for Excellence on top of all the requests for the two to be in the roster.

Answer me that question if the Square Enix rep Isn't base game but is DLC and announced right off the bat.
How would you explain this as apparently by Vergeben himself there is a very realistic situation where the Square rep might be DLC

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I have to applaud your altruistic mindset of "It won't happen until the game's out", but you're really too naive.

It's better to bite the bullet now and accept the fact that we'll probably get teased for our first DLC character instead of having a heartbreak over Sakurai breaking some imaginary moral.

The only question is, will it be like Mewtwo, or will it be disc-locked day 1 content?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I have to applaud your altruistic mindset of "It won't happen until the game's out", but you're really too naive.

It's better to bite the bullet now and accept the fact that we'll probably get teased for our first DLC character instead of having a heartbreak over Sakurai breaking some imaginary moral.

.....

You have the wrong idea entirely.

I'm not talking about morals or ethics or honor.

I'm trying to keep my expectations in check and my expectations say that we'll be waiting ages for new characters because waiting is a thing that sucks and brings us all closer to death.

It hurts to be called naive and optimistic when I'm trying to keep my hype in check. Like people calling you vain for working out at the gym when the doctor told you need to get healthy or you'll die.

 

[Shroob]

The only question is, will it be like Mewtwo, or will it be disc-locked day 1 content?

Like Mewtwo, but I totally expect a "If you have a paid online subscription, you'll receive x-character for free! They'll also be able to be purchased on x-date."


The online service is ****, but we have to get it to play online. Of course they'll throw in the first character 'for free' to try to sweeten the deal.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Like Mewtwo, but I totally expect a "If you have a paid online subscription, you'll receive x-character for free! They'll also be able to be purchased on x-date."


The online service is ****, but we have to get it to play online. Of course they'll throw in the first character 'for free' to try to sweeten the deal.

I don’t even think it’ll be that. I think you’ll have to pay extra for the character on top of the online.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I love how everyone still thinks they can predict Sakurai.

Of course trying to predict Sakurai is fruitless--it's like trying to predict the exact location/momentum of a single electron. Ain't happenin, he'll Isabelle that ****. Still, it's the only fun game we can play until the actual game comes out.

 

[Shroob]

I don’t even think it’ll be that. I think you’ll have to pay extra for the character on top of the online.

I really doubt they'll go that hard.

Other games are getting 'exclusive' things for getting the online iirc, I can see them throwing in the first, but only the first, character in as a 'bonus'.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Like Mewtwo, but I totally expect a "If you have a paid online subscription, you'll receive x-character for free! They'll also be able to be purchased on x-date."


The online service is ****, but we have to get it to play online. Of course they'll throw in the first character 'for free' to try to sweeten the deal.

Online you say?
What character could benefit from Nintendo's online serv-- oh, oh no.