Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Diddy Kong]

I dont wanna generalize here (though I may giv eoff the wrong kind of message), but I think most Nintendo Diehards just dont care for more mature types of games that Dante, Doomguy and Leon come from unless they have the special Nintendo approval like Bayo has. Most diehards probably care for either the cartoony Mario-Pokemon-Kirby style or the anime somewhat kinda sorta gritty style seen in Fire Emblem, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Final Fantasy, Kid Icarus Uprising (or both) as opposed to the gritty and realistic (albeit fantasy) styles DOOM, RE and DMC have. These games also are more gory, that may have something to do with it.

I personally think more Mature characters in Smash is a good thing, since the entire point of Smash is to see worlds (and their aestethics, characters, identities etc) collide, so its really the only time youll see Snake snap Isabelles neck or King K Rool whail on Bayonetta in an official game. That, and many of the most influential games have an M rating, so ignoring them is ignoring a whole lot of gaming history (especially RE and DOOM).

Again, not trying to say all Nintendo diehards only play kid games or whatever, but Nintendos history for shuffling mature games undrer the rug may have lead to a general disinterest among fans that exclusivley play on Nintendo. Thats my best guess at why most people arent rooting for them as much, at least.

Well to be honest, mature themes are already kind of handled already in Smash. come to mind, both as characters and their overall franchises. With a second thought, even Castlevania can be listed there, probably.

Then there's also ultcorrin: of course who all do a whole lot of "mature" stuff in their games

No, honestly, speaking as a Nintendo "fanboy", mature themes are fine. We just don't hold too much attachment to those franchises or games because most have never been on Nintendo before. It's quite simple... Try to "sell" Smash to your Sony and Microsoft fanboy friends, and share the results here. It ought to be similar. The market has been sort of "divided" for a reason; people like what they like.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I just wanna let you know, who will be a "WHO?" character in Smash Ultimate?

In Melee we got Marth/Roy

In Brawl we got Pit/R.O.B.

In Smash 4 we got Shulk

So who will be the next one??

A youtuber who's name is similar to your username's Kirby marathon

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I just wanna let you know, who will be a "WHO?" character in Smash Ultimate?

In Melee we got Marth/Roy

In Brawl we got Pit/R.O.B.

In Smash 4 we got Shulk

So who will be the next one??

By some people’s standards, we already have three: Simon and Richter Belmont, and King K. Rool. Hell, some people even count Ridley and Isabelle as “who?” characters.
I watched a guy legitimately think Simon’s trailer was leading up to a Dark Souls character and I never wanted to punch my goddamn screen more than I did in that moment.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/3/17...8-final-fantasy-7-tomb-raider-madden-spacewar

Just gonna drop this here again, not a big deal, nope.

Can't wait for John Madden to be announced next week

Why specifically 'at least 40 million'?

How did you get that number?

Devil May Cry is with no doubt an iconic franchise

Metal Gear Solid sold only 49 Million
Besides, Dante is a little iconic I guess, But he isn't next in line
We still have yet to see characters like Lara Croft, Crash Bandicoot, Steve, Banjo Kazooie, DQ Slime, and Monster Hunter, who would all have better shots than Dante will...

I just wanna let you know, who will be a "WHO?" character in Smash Ultimate?

In Melee we got Marth/Roy

In Brawl we got Pit/R.O.B.

In Smash 4 we got Shulk

So who will be the next one??

Steve...

 

[SvartWolf]

We now post music that will never play on Midgar

im not crying you are

Gilgamesh should been an Assist trophy ...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well, we all know who the most forgettable character in Smash period is.

Spoiler

It's (probably) .

Lol so much so that that one fake leak forgot to put him on.

Too bad, that one had the Dragonborn so I liked it. New villager though? Wtf?

 

[Pakky]

Can't wait for John Madden to be announced next week

Madden eats the competition.

#rude

 

[Fenriraga]

No but because Dante is really ****ing cool

Nah.

I just really friggin like Dante.

Fair enough. He is a pretty cool guy who kills demons and doesn't afraid of anything.

You know, I have to ask: Would anyone be legit upset if Geno or Bandana Dee really did get in? Considering the growing consensus of “literally who” and “Hat Goomba” that is being applied to the two of them respectively, I’m beginning to wonder if the detractors of those characters outweigh the fans.

There's always going to be people who throw a fit over a Smash character. Isabelle received quite a bit of backlash. But you know what they say: the idiots always scream the loudest. It's really just a vocal minority a lot of the time, hte majority of people either support them, think they're cool enough, or could just care less. I don't think Geno and Dee would be any different.

Madden eats the competition.

Holy crap I'm hungry now.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

By some people’s standards, we already have three: Simon and Richter Belmont, and King K. Rool. Hell, some people even count Ridley and Isabelle as “who?” characters.
I watched a guy legitimately think Simon’s trailer was leading up to a Dark Souls character and I never wanted to punch my goddamn screen more than I did in that moment.

A Who in Smash 4 in concept are characters that were really obscure in the Western eyes but it is recognizable to Japan. It can be obscure for both regions. That is my theory though.

 

[amazonevan19]

You know, I have to ask: Would anyone be legit upset if Geno or Bandana Dee really did get in? Considering the growing consensus of “literally who” and “Hat Goomba” that is being applied to the two of them respectively, I’m beginning to wonder if the detractors of those characters outweigh the fans.

I think for the hardcore smash fandom, most of us would be very happy if one or both made it. For the broader "casual crowd" I bet not many would know or care about Geno but be like "oh, bandana dee, he was in Star Allies, ok cool" or "oh they put one of those waddle dees in the game, ok." The casual crowd, by definition, won't probably be very upset or care much about Geno at all, just ignore or not know about him.

I'm sure someone out there would be pissed but I think those two characters are still very much widely viewed in a positive sense in the smash community.

Also the hat goomba argument is stupid and needs to die. If you think that, you clearly haven't paid attention to any Kirby game from the past decade plus. Bandana Dee is one of the four major Kirby characters now, the others being King Dedede, Meta Knight, and Kirby himself.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Can't wait for John Madden to be announced next week

Metal Gear Solid sold only 49 Million
Besides, Dante is a little iconic I guess, But he isn't next in line
We still have yet to see characters like Lara Croft, Crash Bandicoot, Steve, Banjo Kazooie, and Monster Hunter, who would all have better shots than Dante will...

You are just making up the rules at this point.

Dante as a character is one of Capcom's biggest names.

Dante is in my eyes one of the most likely Capcom characters right now

 

[Deleted member]

How did we get back to Dante discussion again? I thought it was pretty much accepted at this point that we're getting 2 more characters; 4 max and Dante was not among those in the running. Unless we're on to talking about DLC now. In which case I still don't see him as likely. Is DmC even that popular? The sales of the entire series is nearly $2 million less than Super Mario Land for the GB alone. That's pretty pathetic. It's a decent game, don't get me wrong, but when your entire series to date has less sales than a single game on the original Gameboy, you may not be what one would consider 'iconic'. Even if you want to say that it was because its Mario it sold a lot; Fine, it still was nearly $3 million less than Brain Age; a simple puzzle/brainteaser game on the DS and over $7 million less than freakin' Nintendogs.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

We now post music that will never play on Midgar

im not crying you are

Peter Pan Ham & Cheese... Sephiroth!

You are just making up the rules at this point.

Dante as a character is one of Capcom's biggest names.

Dante is in my eyes one of the most likely Capcom characters right now

Umm... Before Characters like:
Pheonix Wright
Leon
Monster Hunter
Amaterasu
Yeah... I don't think so...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How did we get back to Dante discussion again? I thought it was pretty much accepted at this point that we're getting 2 more characters; 4 max and Dante was not among those in the running. Unless we're on to talking about DLC now. In which case I still don't see him as likely. Is DmC even that popular? The sales of the entire series is nearly $2 million less than Super Mario Land for the GB alone. That's pretty pathetic. It's a decent game, don't get me wrong, but when your entire series to date has less sales than a single game on the original Gameboy, you may not be what one would consider 'iconic'. Even if you want to say that it was because its Mario it sold a lot; Fine, it still was nearly $3 million less than Brain Age; a simple puzzle/brainteaser game on the DS and over $7 million less than freakin' Nintendogs.

Hear me out

Dante is really ****ing cool

 

[Fenriraga]

Honestly, in regards to Dante in Smash, I think there's one major thing holding him back.

Kamiya has said before that he wants Dante and Bayonetta to meet on his own terms. This is the reason Bayonetta didn't show up in Project X Zone. As big of a deal as Smash is, I just don't see that being the stage he wants to set up for them. Could it be? It could. But I don't really think so. The way he put it makes it seem like he'd want something more than them sharing the spotlight with dozens of others and maybe just having a trailer together.

 

[amazonevan19]

How did we get back to Dante discussion again? I thought it was pretty much accepted at this point that we're getting 2 more characters; 4 max and Dante was not among those in the running. Unless we're on to talking about DLC now. In which case I still don't see him as likely. Is DmC even that popular? The sales of the entire series is nearly $2 million less than Super Mario Land for the GB alone. That's pretty pathetic. It's a decent game, don't get me wrong, but when your entire series to date has less sales than a single game on the original Gameboy, you may not be what one would consider 'iconic'. Even if you want to say that it was because its Mario it sold a lot; Fine, it still was nearly $3 million less than Brain Age; a simple puzzle/brainteaser game on the DS and over $7 million less than freakin' Nintendogs.

This hurt my eyes to read. Nice bait.

*sighs* In short, though I'm no DmC fan (never played a game), it singlehandedly created an entire new genre of video games. Dante is incredibly iconic among the mature gaming audience, much more so than even Bayonetta. The only thing really holding him back in my opinion is the lack of appearances on Nintendo consoles but he does have ONE and we've seen Sakurai cheese Cloud in for very similar reasons (iconic representative of an iconic franchise).

 

[LoboRundas]

How did we get back to Dante discussion again? I thought it was pretty much accepted at this point that we're getting 2 more characters; 4 max and Dante was not among those in the running. Unless we're on to talking about DLC now. In which case I still don't see him as likely. Is DmC even that popular? The sales of the entire series is nearly $2 million less than Super Mario Land for the GB alone. That's pretty pathetic. It's a decent game, don't get me wrong, but when your entire series to date has less sales than a single game on the original Gameboy, you may not be what one would consider 'iconic'. Even if you want to say that it was because its Mario it sold a lot; Fine, it still was nearly $3 million less than Brain Age; a simple puzzle/brainteaser game on the DS and over $7 million less than freakin' Nintendogs.

A franchise can be iconic with low sales though, and Devil May Cry is an icon of action games and a reference.

 

[Pyra]

Kinda hoping we get a dragon quest character as DLC. Have been playing DQ 11 A LOT recently (I like it enough to be something I intend on playing through several times, but I haven't beaten it just yet), and while we may not get one of those characters ( ) I would still love to see one from a previous game make it in.

Also, it'd be Toriyama art in the game, which is fun.

Crono would also be a good choice.

I'm sad it's unlikely.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Umm... Before Characters like:
Pheonix Wright
Leon
Monster Hunter
Amaterasu
Yeah... I don't think so...

I do think so


Heck if we're going by the 'at least 40 million' argument. We might as well not even consider Lloyd Irving as a Namco rep at all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, in regards to Dante in Smash, I think there's one major thing holding him back.

Kamiya has said before that he wants Dante and Bayonetta to meet on his own terms. This is the reason Bayonetta didn't show up in Project X Zone. As big of a deal as Smash is, I just don't see that being the stage he wants to set up for them. Could it be? It could. But I don't really think so.

tbf Kamiya regretted that

 

[Llort A. Ton]

A lot of these characters have even had starring roels on Nintendo too... not so much Dante, but RE4 (Leons big game) launched first on Game Cube first, plenty of RE games are on Nintendo, a few Tekken games are on Nintendo, and when DOOM Eternal releases, 5 of the 6 main DOOM games (all but DOOM 3) will be on Nintendo, with one (DOOM 64) still being exclusive to N64. Theres just not a lot of interest in them from Nintnedo players aside from maybe RE4. But they all share Ninty history or are iconic (or both).

 

[osby]

Honestly, in regards to Dante in Smash, I think there's one major thing holding him back.

Kamiya has said before that he wants Dante and Bayonetta to meet on his own terms. This is the reason Bayonetta didn't show up in Project X Zone. As big of a deal as Smash is, I just don't see that being the stage he wants to set up for them. Could it be? It could. But I don't really think so.

Maybe, but than he said he kinda regretted that decision. Considering how much trust Sakurai has in the eyes of a lot of game developers, I wouldn't say it's impossible.

EDIT: 'd.

 

[Fenriraga]

tbf Kamiya regretted that

He did, which is why it's still entirely possible. But I still feel like he'd want to handle it his way if given the choice.

 

[Pakky]

Hear me out

Dante is really ****ing cool

Well, hell, i'm convinced and me makes noises when he shoots so... I'm in.

 

[Deleted member]

This hurt my eyes to read. Nice bait.

*sighs* In short, though I'm no DmC fan (never played a game), it singlehandedly created an entire new genre of video games. Dante is incredibly iconic among the mature gaming audience, much more so than even Bayonetta. The only thing really holding him back in my opinion is the lack of appearances on Nintendo consoles but he does have ONE and we've seen Sakurai cheese Cloud in for very similar reasons (iconic representative of an iconic franchise).

lol Sorry, I didn't mean it to be bait, I was legitimately questioning his status. The whole series is at $16 million in sales; an entire series. I mean, he's popular in his circle and that's it. The character is practically the definition of 'edgelord' who appeals to young teens going through their 'dark rebel' phase.

EDIT: To expand on what you said for a bit, being the 'first' to a particular game type doesnt really mean much if you dont grow with it and become the 'face' of that type. Gran Trak was the very first racing game; does anybody consider that the face of Racing Games over something like Gran Tourismo?

Hear me out

Dante is really ****ing cool

He honestly comes out as a generic character archetype to me, really

 

[Deleted member]

Besides, Dante also carries the “we hate Bayo” stigma for basically being rule 63 Umbran Witch.

This pisses me off so much. I get that Bayonetta’s broken, but that’s no excuse to cut Dante IMO. No offense intended to you CaptainAmerica .

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Never call the DMC series “DmC” again.
NEVER AGAIN, YOU HEAR ME?

 

[Pakky]

lol Sorry, I didn't mean it to be bait, I was legitimately questioning his status. The whole series is at $16 million in sales; an entire series. I mean, he's popular in his circle and that's it. The character is practically the definition of 'edgelord' who appeals to young teens going through their 'dark rebel' phase.

Ehh... Don't think so.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Capcom clearly has got the most possible reps compared to other companies.

Which is bound to make Capcom fans enemies of each other when it comes to Smash speculation, I guess

 

[osby]

lol Sorry, I didn't mean it to be bait, I was legitimately questioning his status. The whole series is at $16 million in sales; an entire series. I mean, he's popular in his circle and that's it. The character is practically the definition of 'edgelord' who appeals to young teens going through their 'dark rebel' phase.



He honestly comes out as a generic character archetype to me, really

Dante? Edgelord? Nice one.

Also making jabs at fanbases or character types isn't a smart argument.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I do think so


Heck if we're going by the 'at least 40 million' argument. We might as well not even consider Lloyd Irving as a Namco rep at all.

Did you see my othe point?
Ties with Nintendo...
They don't need to be as big as the iconic guys, but they should have history with Nintendo...
Mega Man sold only 32 Million Copies, but it's insane affiliation with Nintendo is probably the main reason he's in.
Lloyd still has a chance imo, just not Dante...

 

[Pyra]

He did, which is why it's still entirely possible. But I still feel like he'd want to handle it his way if given the choice.

inb4 his way is making Smash Bros canon to his universe

 

[Baskerville]

Getting Mega Man, Ryu, Ken, and Dante would only make me want Nintendo vs. Capcom to be real.

Also lol thinking Dante is an edgelord.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

lol Sorry, I didn't mean it to be bait, I was legitimately questioning his status. The whole series is at $16 million in sales; an entire series. I mean, he's popular in his circle and that's it. The character is practically the definition of 'edgelord' who appeals to young teens going through their 'dark rebel' phase.



He honestly comes out as a generic character archetype to me, really

Ohhhh, I see, you only played the reboot. Now it all makes sense.

 

[Fenriraga]

lol Sorry, I didn't mean it to be bait, I was legitimately questioning his status. The whole series is at $16 million in sales; an entire series. I mean, he's popular in his circle and that's it. The character is practically the definition of 'edgelord' who appeals to young teens going through their 'dark rebel' phase.

No, that would be Donte, not Dante. I'm not about to say Dante is the most richly written character out there, but there is a lot to like about him besides just being a "cool guy". If that was the case, his appeal would have died out years ago with the passing of time and what's considered "cool" or "edgy". Honestly, he's more of a loveable dork than a shining beacon of coolness.

And how many times does it need to be said that sales figures mean **** all? That is still a VERY good sales figure for a series that was PlayStation Exclusive up until 4. The hack and slash/beat em up genre isn't the most popular out there, sure, but it is still prevelent, and he is absolutely an icon of it.

 

[amazonevan19]

A lot of these characters have even had starring roels on Nintendo too... not so much Dante, but RE4 (Leons big game) launched first on Game Cube first, plenty of RE games are on Nintendo, a few Tekken games are on Nintendo, and when DOOM Eternal releases, 5 of the 6 main DOOM games (all but DOOM 3) will be on Nintendo, with one (DOOM 64) still being exclusive to N64. Theres just not a lot of interest in them from Nintnedo players aside from maybe RE4. But they all share Ninty history or are iconic (or both).

I largely agree with this although I don't think it's necessarily fair to say DOOM doesn't appeal to Nintendo's audiences. The Doom games have performed pretty well on Nintendo consoles and Doom 2016 did very well given the circumstances (a port coming out nearly two years after every other platform got the game). And Doom Eternal coming to the Switch releasing at the same time as the other platforms is a huge positive sign and should sell well.

Sure Doom is a no-go for most casuals and families nowadays but you'd be surprised at how well it did back in the 90s on Nintendo systems and how well it did with the reboot.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Did you see my othe point?
Ties with Nintendo...
They don't need to be as big as the iconic guys, but they should have history with Nintendo...
Mega Man sold only 32 Million Copies, but it's insane affiliation with Nintendo is probably the main reason he's in.
Lloyd still has a chance imo, just not Dante...

I mean Lloyd isn't from a franchise that's been associated with Nintendo either

Capcom clearly has got the most possible reps compared to other companies.

Which is bound to make Capcom fans enemies of each other when it comes to Smash speculation, I guess

Capcom has so many cool ****ing characters that you could make a Smash game just with them. It's why my big brain dummy wishlist had like 30 of them

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ehh... Don't think so.

I will allow Dante in if this is his victory screen animation...

Getting Mega Man, Ryu, Ken, and Dante would only make me want Nintendo vs. Capcom to be real.

Shame it will probably never happen assuming what is going on with Marvel Vs. Capcom

 

[amazonevan19]

Never call the DMC series “DmC” again.
NEVER AGAIN, YOU HEAR ME?

whoops

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ohhhh, I see, you only played the reboot. Now it all makes sense.

Wait did the unwanted stepchild sell 16 million? Considering Ninja Theory sold the Donte model for a dentist video I highly doubt that

I will allow Dante in if this is his victory screen animation...


Shame it will probably never happen assuming what is going on with Marvel Vs. Capcom

I mean what happened there was primarily Disney's fault