Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Diddy Kong]

It's not worth looking into much. The twitter post refers to them as she again.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Interestingly, Dark Samus similarly was referred to as "it" at first, but since then the blog post has been updated to say "she."

That means only one thing...

We have to open up the discussion again!

 

[Deleted member]

You know I've noticed something. Whenever I bring up characters like Dante, Leon Kennedy, Jin Kazama IIRC, and Doomguy being in Smash, people more or less tend to not be excited. Not I'm not denying that there's some people out there that support these characters, but I feel as if any four of those characters would be a rather divisive inclusion if any of them got into Smash.

I am right in thinking that?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One thing, after the August direct we got matches showing off K. Rool, Dark Samus and Chrom but we still haven't seen Isabelle, Simon or Richter in such a fashion.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Because he's not super popular compared to, say, Shadow. He also can't be a clone unlike Shadow. People think he hasn't much chance and honestly, he doesn't really come second in most Sonic games.

Hes a very iconic villian so thats all thats really neccesary.

Despite not being as popular as tails, knucles, and shadow he still is considered in japan to be one the top 10 most memorable sega characters

 

[osby]

You know I've noticed something. Whenever I bring up characters like Dante, Leon Kennedy, Jin Kazama IIRC, and Doomguy being in Smash, people more or less tend to not be excited. Not I'm not denying that there's some people out there that support these characters, but I feel as if any four of those characters would be a rather divisive inclusion if any of them got into Smash.

I am right in thinking that?

Yeah, they aren't really characters who are on Smash fanbase's radar. Probably because they don't have a big precense in Nintendo consols, bar Leon?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, they aren't really characters who are on Smash fanbase's radar. Probably because they don't have a big precense in Nintendo consols, bar Leon?

In Jin's case, it's because Sakurai considered Heihachi and he's the one that got a Mii costume.

 

[Megadoomer]

So how would you guys feel if the final newcomer base roster for Ultimate looked something like this?









(Incineroar)
(Ken)
(Isaac)
(Dante)

Assuming that Inkling would be in there as well, I'd be 100% fine with it - between "Everyone is Here", Ridley, and K. Rool, I'm already satisfied with the roster, and getting Isaac and Dante on top of the characters that Vergeben's leaked would be downright amazing!

I haven't played much of Golden Sun, but there seems to be a ton of material to work with and it could help get GS back in the spotlight; Dante has so much potential for moves that it's downright insane, and he seems like he'd be a ton of fun to play as whether he's based on DMC1, 3, 4, or 5.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

You know I've noticed something. Whenever I bring up characters like Dante, Leon Kennedy, Jin Kazama IIRC, and Doomguy being in Smash, people more or less tend to not be excited. Not I'm not denying that there's some people out there that support these characters, but I feel as if any four of those characters would be a rather divisive inclusion if any of them got into Smash.

I am right in thinking that?

The only one that would bother me is Dante, just because there are better Capcom reps...
Leon, Jin and Doom Guy would all be fine by me, it's just Dante doesn't fit Smash imo...

Hes a very iconic villian so thats all thats really neccesary.

Despite not being as popular as tails, knucles, and shadow he still is considered in japan to be one the top 10 most memorable sega characters
View attachment 167932

Glad to see Japanese Chuck Norris at Number 1.

 

[jokermelee]

You know I've noticed something. Whenever I bring up characters like Dante, Leon Kennedy, Jin Kazama IIRC, and Doomguy being in Smash, people more or less tend to not be excited. Not I'm not denying that there's some people out there that support these characters, but I feel as if any four of those characters would be a rather divisive inclusion if any of them got into Smash.

I am right in thinking that?

i personally don't think they would be a divisive inclusion, but i definitely know some people would be less ecstatic at the fact of more 3rd parties in Smash. I think some people would rather have more first party characters than 3rd, which is fine, but also including memorable and iconic 3rd party characters is a good option to have also, and i'm glad we're able to have that option in the first place.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Dragon Ball sold around 350million in 40 Something volume
One Piece 450 million in the double.

Guess who did better in the same run.

You know Dragon Ball has an extra 13 years on One Piece right? People kept buying volumes after its serialization ended years ago. It also wasn't popularized in the west until the 2000's, long after it ended its run.

Additionally, Super is being serialized and adds to that number.

If you want to compare their volumes, you have to do it at a number both hit. One Piece hit the 300 million mark much MUCH faster than Dragon Ball ever did.

 

[P.Kat]

So how would you guys feel if the final newcomer base roster for Ultimate looked something like this?









(Incineroar)
(Ken)
(Isaac)
(Dante)

I'm not big on Incineroar, or the other heavyweights, but other than them, swap Dante for Ammy, add Elma, and that's a roster I can get behind.

 

[Robertman2]

You know I've noticed something. Whenever I bring up characters like Dante, Leon Kennedy, Jin Kazama IIRC, and Doomguy being in Smash, people more or less tend to not be excited. Not I'm not denying that there's some people out there that support these characters, but I feel as if any four of those characters would be a rather divisive inclusion if any of them got into Smash.

I am right in thinking that?

Because a lot of Smash fans have trash taste. Just look at the fact that people want bottom of the barrel first parties over hype third parties


tbh tho, heihachi over jin

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Hes a very iconic villian so thats all thats really neccesary.

Despite not being as popular as tails, knucles, and shadow he still is considered in japan to be one the top 10 most memorable sega characters
View attachment 167932

Nice to see someone from Streets of Rage made the list!

 

[PsySmasher]

Interestingly, Dark Samus similarly was referred to as "it" at first, but since then the blog post has been updated to say "she."

Why is Dark Samus referred to as "she" instead of "it"? Is it only because she'a a doppelgänger of Samus? I'm not very well versed in Metroid lore.

You know I've noticed something. Whenever I bring up characters like Dante, Leon Kennedy, Jin Kazama IIRC, and Doomguy being in Smash, people more or less tend to not be excited. Not I'm not denying that there's some people out there that support these characters, but I feel as if any four of those characters would be a rather divisive inclusion if any of them got into Smash.

I am right in thinking that?

It might have to do with them originating from more violent/mature 3rd party series. In my opinion, they seem less likely and less though of for Smash possibly because some people have a hard time imagining them fitting into Smash.

Snake is the exception to that, but that was due to Sakurai's close relationship with Kojima.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, they aren't really characters who are on Smash fanbase's radar. Probably because they don't have a big precense in Nintendo consols, bar Leon?

I though it was a whole asthetic thing, like "Cartoonish themed characters vs Mature themed characters".

The only one that would bother me is Dante, just because there are better Capcom reps...
Leon, Jin and Doom Guy would all be fine by me, it's just Dante doesn't fit Smash imo...

Bruh. I cannot believe you just said that Dante doesn't fit into Smash. You calling my boy a trash tier Capcom rep?

 

[Deleted member]

We aren't friends anymore.
ALSO HAVE YOU EVER ****ING HEARD MAGMOOR CAVERNS?
ALSO ALSO COROCORO SAID 108 CLEARLY WE'RE GETTING THE VENUS LIGHTHOUSE FOR WHERE THE GOLDEN SUN TRACKS GO

Gwen shut up and listen to more good music

BUT WHERE DOES THE TW101 MUSIC GO THIS IS IMPORTANT

Hes a very iconic villian so thats all thats really neccesary.

Despite not being as popular as tails, knucles, and shadow he still is considered in japan to be one the top 10 most memorable sega characters
View attachment 167932

Mfw Eggman is more memorable than the main character of the game.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Because he actually has a penis. It was the cost to give him his own character slot back in Brawl.

My life is ruined now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Gwen shut up and listen to more good music

BUT WHERE DOES THE TW101 MUSIC GO THIS IS IMPORTANT

Mfw Eggman is more memorable than the main character of the game.

**** off it's a Super Metroid AND a Prime sonf it's amazing

ON THE W101 STAGE OF COURSE




where Wonder Red and Vorken are stage hazards

 

[Deleted member]

It might have to do with them originating from more violent/mature 3rd party series. In my opinion, they seem less likely and less though of for Smash possibly because some people have a hard time imagining them fitting into Smash.

Snake is the exception to that, but that was due to Sakurai's close relationship with Kojima.

Hmm. I guess I just have a better time imagining them in a Smash game than most people. I could make entire movesets for them if I wanted to.

 

[Flyboy]

My take on Dante is that while he's cool, I play Smash for Nintendo-heavy characters. Cloud is a special exception because FF started on Nintendo and Cloud transcends platform, really. To me, there are so many other reps Capcom could add over Dante that'd satisfy more criteria than Dante by being more Nintendo-focused, iconic to Nintendo fans, or more interesting to see in a fighting game. Like, I love Dante. The first action figure I ever imported was the Revoltech Dante. But it's not THAT exciting to me to see it again. Maybe for Simon vs Dante, that'd be neat.

What about Phoenix Wright? What about Viewtiful Joe? What about Ameratasu? If we branch out further to other third parties, what about Travis Touchdown? Professor Layton? Black Mage? Neku? Dr. Eggman? Edea? Bub & Bob?

Heck, with first parties even, we have Isaac, Elma, Celica, Sophie, and plenty of others. This is just scratching the surface.

I get that Dante is cool. I get that DMC is cool. I get that he has a ton of weapons. But I don't play Smash for that. I play Smash for Nintendo all-star matches and creative characters duking it out, and even as a Dante fan (he was my main dude when I played the PS2 Viewtiful Joe even) I just don't see what he brings to the table over a whole laundry list of characters other than "cool character with cool weapons".

I wouldn't protest his inclusion and I'd be interested but I'm just old school enough that I want some form of Nintendo ties, I guess.

 

[Deleted member]

**** off it's a Super Metroid AND a Prime sonf it's amazing

ON THE W101 STAGE OF COURSE




where Wonder Red and Vorken are stage hazards

THEY CAN'T BE STAGE HAZARDS IN A STAGE THAT WON'T HAPPEN
:'^(

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

My take on Dante is that while he's cool, I play Smash for Nintendo-heavy characters. Cloud is a special exception because FF started on Nintendo and Cloud transcends platform, really. To me, there are so many other reps Capcom could add over Dante that'd satisfy more criteria than Dante by being more Nintendo-focused, iconic to Nintendo fans, or more interesting to see in a fighting game. Like, I love Dante. The first action figure I ever imported was the Revoltech Dante. But it's not THAT exciting to me to see it again. Maybe for Simon vs Dante, that'd be neat.

What about Phoenix Wright? What about Viewtiful Joe? What about Ameratasu? If we branch out further to other third parties, what about Travis Touchdown? Professor Layton? Black Mage? Neku? Dr. Eggman? Edea? Bub & Bob?

Heck, with first parties even, we have Isaac, Elma, Celica, Sophie, and plenty of others. This is just scratching the surface.

I get that Dante is cool. I get that DMC is cool. I get that he has a ton of weapons. But I don't play Smash for that. I play Smash for Nintendo all-star matches and creative characters duking it out, and even as a Dante fan (he was my main dude when I played the PS2 Viewtiful Joe even) I just don't see what he brings to the table over a whole laundry list of characters other than "cool character with cool weapons".

I wouldn't protest his inclusion and I'd be interested but I'm just old school enough that I want some form of Nintendo ties, I guess.

Agreed. 3rd Parties are cool and all. But due to so many of them I’m not getting too many characters I like. Cuz Nintendo is my boi.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Because a lot of Smash fans have trash taste. Just look at the fact that people want bottom of the barrel first parties over hype third parties


tbh tho, heihachi over jin

*Because not every person likes the same things as you and have their own opinions on what they consider “hype” without denouncing other’s picks as “trash”.

Just thought I’d fix that for you.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

THEY CAN'T BE STAGE HAZARDS IN A STAGE THAT WON'T HAPPEN
:'^(

LOOK AT MY ****ING AVI AND YOU'LL SEE HOW WELL I'M TAKING IT

 

[Paperchampion23]

The only one that would bother me is Dante, just because there are better Capcom reps...
Leon, Jin and Doom Guy would all be fine by me, it's just Dante doesn't fit Smash imo...

You know the guy who made Devil Made Cry is the same person who made Bayonetta right? Dante has every right to be in Smash as she does, save for possibly having little Nintendo presence but who knows if that doesn't change in the future.

Though I agree that there are other characters who probably fit "better"

 

[Deleted member]

My take on Dante is that while he's cool, I play Smash for Nintendo-heavy characters. Cloud is a special exception because FF started on Nintendo and Cloud transcends platform, really. To me, there are so many other reps Capcom could add over Dante that'd satisfy more criteria than Dante by being more Nintendo-focused, iconic to Nintendo fans, or more interesting to see in a fighting game. Like, I love Dante. The first action figure I ever imported was the Revoltech Dante. But it's not THAT exciting to me to see it again. Maybe for Simon vs Dante, that'd be neat.

What about Phoenix Wright? What about Viewtiful Joe? What about Ameratasu? If we branch out further to other third parties, what about Travis Touchdown? Professor Layton? Black Mage? Neku? Dr. Eggman? Edea? Bub & Bob?

Heck, with first parties even, we have Isaac, Elma, Celica, Sophie, and plenty of others. This is just scratching the surface.

I get that Dante is cool. I get that DMC is cool. I get that he has a ton of weapons. But I don't play Smash for that. I play Smash for Nintendo all-star matches and creative characters duking it out, and even as a Dante fan (he was my main dude when I played the PS2 Viewtiful Joe even) I just don't see what he brings to the table over a whole laundry list of characters other than "cool character with cool weapons".

I wouldn't protest his inclusion and I'd be interested but I'm just old school enough that I want some form of Nintendo ties, I guess.

I'm more of the opposite. I think Dante would be the penultimate Capcom character to add aside from Leon Kennedy. I like Ameratasu, but those two characters to me are who I would add.

I don't necessarily need third party characters in Smash to have ties with Nintendo. So long as that character in question can have an interesting moveset, I'd be cool.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I though it was a whole asthetic thing, like "Cartoonish themed characters vs Mature themed characters".

You know the guy who made Devil Made Cry is the same person who made Bayonetta right? Dante has every right to be in Smash as she does, save for possibly having little Nintendo presence but who knows if that doesn't change in the future.

Bruh. I cannot believe you just said that Dante doesn't fit into Smash. You calling my boy a trash tier Capcom rep?

I don't know... another unique Capcom rep has a bunch of possibilities, and I feel like Dante would be the most lackluster out of all of them. Just my opinion though, you're entitled to your own...
Besides, wouldn't he be too much like Bayonetta? Also, He has had only like one Appearance on a Nintendo Console. How is he more deserving over characters like Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright (Lot's of History with Nintendo), Leon (RE would be up next in line, in terms of Capcom in Smash), or even Amaterasu?

Dante fits Playstation All-Stars well imo (though maybe they could have gone with the more standard Dante)

 

[praline]

If Capcom got another rep it should be from Resident Evil!!!

 

[Guynamednelson]

Besides, wouldn't he be too much like Bayonetta?

Bayonetta doesn't use sword moves.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If Capcom got another rep it should be from Resident Evil!!!

This is only acceptable if Chris Redfield's final smash is Boulder Punch

 

[praline]

This is only acceptable if Chris Redfield's final smash is Boulder Punch

I’d rather Jill or even Nemesis as the rep

 

[Robertman2]

The next most deserving rep after Ryu and Mega Man is Leon Kennedy, but good luck making a moveset for him and keeping an E10+ rating at the same time

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Bayonetta doesn't use sword moves.

Okay, Fair... But if any Gun and Sword user is getting in, It's Elma. She's owned by Nintendo, so there's less licencing hassle...

If Capcom got another rep it should be from Resident Evil!!!

Can't wait to see Barry's "Master of Unlocking" Final Smash...

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know... another unique Capcom rep has a bunch of possibilities, and I feel like Dante would be the most lackluster out of all of them. Just my opinion though, you're entitled to your own...
Besides, wouldn't he be too much like Bayonetta? Also, He has had only like one Appearance on a Nintendo Console. How is he more deserving over characters like Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright (Lot's of History with Nintendo), Leon (RE would be up next in line, in terms of Capcom in Smash), or even Amaterasu?

Dante fits Playstation All-Stars well imo (though maybe they could have gone with the more standard Dante)

Dante would not play like Bayonetta at all. He has enough material to differentiate himself from her. The two fight nothing alike.

And for the whole Capcom character thing, that's fine if you want a different Capcom character. I'm not trying to say one character is more dersiving than the other. What I'm trying to figure out is why some people don't find him a cool addition. And that answer is looking to be "Not enough Nintendo history", which to me is ridiculous, but whatever.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Bayonetta doesn't use sword moves.

Well she does but not in her Smash moveset (Hence the Link costume in the Nintendo versions of Bayo 1 & Bayo 2)

 

[Pakky]

Because he's not super popular compared to, say, Shadow. He also can't be a clone unlike Shadow. People think he hasn't much chance and honestly, he doesn't really come second in most Sonic games.

Which I wonder if that's just a Smash community thing because outside of that its the opposite, it seems. I get the costume and AT absence but whew.

Hes a very iconic villian so thats all thats really neccesary.

Despite not being as popular as tails, knucles, and shadow he still is considered in japan to be one the top 10 most memorable sega characters
View attachment 167932

Then there's this.

Not even saying he's a 'shoo in' but its weird he's not talked about like at all.

 

[P.Kat]

You know I've noticed something. Whenever I bring up characters like Dante, Leon Kennedy, Jin Kazama IIRC, and Doomguy being in Smash, people more or less tend to not be excited. Not I'm not denying that there's some people out there that support these characters, but I feel as if any four of those characters would be a rather divisive inclusion if any of them got into Smash.

I am right in thinking that?

I would most certainly welcome Jin Kazama to Smash over Heihachi, and I wouldn't mind Dante considering he's tied with Monster Hunter as my second most wanted Capcom character, but I'd rather Amaterasu over Dante (or any Capcom character) as a Capcom newcomer. She'd feel a bit more appealing, and unique as a character in terms of design, and moveset potential, but that's just my opinion.

 

[blackghost]

You know I've noticed something. Whenever I bring up characters like Dante, Leon Kennedy, Jin Kazama IIRC, and Doomguy being in Smash, people more or less tend to not be excited. Not I'm not denying that there's some people out there that support these characters, but I feel as if any four of those characters would be a rather divisive inclusion if any of them got into Smash.

I am right in thinking that?

do not confuse smashbaords with what people in general want. general fans want third parties in smash. they want to see sakurai pull a miracle inclusion. Geno, shadow, and other favorites dont do that for most people. i like to watch nonsmash people do reactions and takes on smash. guys like Maximilian provide a good lense into "casual player that just loves games"

brace yourself every DLC future character will get torn apart by some people here. Will it be warranted? no. but it will happen.

Dante wouldnt play like bayonetta. anyone saying that is clueless about both or one of the characters.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

I dont wanna generalize here (though I may giv eoff the wrong kind of message), but I think most Nintendo Diehards just dont care for more mature types of games that Dante, Doomguy and Leon come from unless they have the special Nintendo approval like Bayo has. Most diehards probably care for either the cartoony Mario-Pokemon-Kirby style or the anime somewhat kinda sorta gritty style seen in Fire Emblem, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Final Fantasy, Kid Icarus Uprising (or both) as opposed to the gritty and realistic (albeit fantasy) styles DOOM, RE and DMC have. These games also are more gory, that may have something to do with it.

I personally think more Mature characters in Smash is a good thing, since the entire point of Smash is to see worlds (and their aestethics, characters, identities etc) collide, so its really the only time youll see Snake snap Isabelles neck or King K Rool whail on Bayonetta in an official game. That, and many of the most influential games have an M rating, so ignoring them is ignoring a whole lot of gaming history (especially RE and DOOM).

Again, not trying to say all Nintendo diehards only play kid games or whatever, but Nintendos history for shuffling mature games undrer the rug may have lead to a general disinterest among fans that exclusivley play on Nintendo. Thats my best guess at why most people arent rooting for them as much, at least.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Well she does but not in her Smash moveset (Hence the Link costume in the Nintendo versions of Bayo 1 & Bayo 2)

True. I meant that it was more likely Dante would have them in Smash.