Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

It'd surprise me as much as getting a Valve or Blizzard character. I don't think Nintendo would opt to add a third-party of such uneven global recognition.


For better or for worse, Smash inclusion isn't predicated on any of those factors though.

I definitely agree.


Although I personally love Granblue(It's in English, yay), the game is pretty unknown outside of its playerbase, and Japan in general.


Outside of cameos in both Shadowverse and Dragalia, Granblue isn't known in the West, though I'd wager at least half the units from Dragalia are recycle characters from Granblue.

 

[Idon]

It'd surprise me as much as getting a Valve or Blizzard character. I don't think Nintendo would opt to add a third-party of such uneven global recognition.


For better or for worse, Smash inclusion isn't predicated on any of those factors though.

I'm aware.
I'm just a grumpy old man with dumb tastes and judging by its current downloads, and the success of gachas in general, I'm in the vast minority.

So you do not want it in because it's cliche anime?

Are...Are you me? Because I swear we have the same opinions on these kind of characters XD. Aside from Elma and Rex & Pyra, I prefer characters from series like Fire Emblem, Persona, and Senran Kagura out of Smash.

Basically this is me when comes to almost every anime-esque character request for Smash:

Don't get me wrong.
I don't dislike anime or animesque things. Hell, I love a lot of FE and Persona characters that are done well. (Never touched Senran though) on top of a backlog of anime I've been meaning to watch.

I just... really dislike tripe I've already seen done (and done better)

 

[osby]

So you do not want it in because it's cliche anime?

Are...Are you me? Because I swear we have the same opinions on these kind of characters XD. Aside from Elma and Rex & Pyra, I prefer characters from series like Fire Emblem, Persona, and Senran Kagura out of Smash.

Basically this is me when comes to almost every anime-esque character request for Smash:

So, Palutena and Zelda are out?

 

[Deleted member]

Cygames is more or less Japan's version of VALVe or Blizzard when you want to talk about them having 'massive IPs'.

Granblue rakes in billions of yen a month on average.

They have access to all the mobile Idolm@ster games.

And they make Shadowverse, aka anime Hearthstone that's on Steam.


Now that Nintendo's partnered with them for Dragalia, if Dragalia does do well, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a Cygames character in Smash as DLC, the company and its IPs are bloody massive in Japan.

If anything, it'd make more sense to add an iDOLM@STER character, given how much of a serious ****ing goliath that franchise is, probably more than Shadowverse and Granblue combined. When you've got 13 years of support, establish and try different things other than being an idol game series, and especially don't shut down fanmade support unlike some franchises like Love Live! (which is why you don't really see much of the franchise anymore, especially after the Muse Era ended), you got yourself a serious money making machine. If Cinderella Girls never took off, we wouldn't really be saying these sorts of things, but Bandai Namco didn't **** up with iM@S, and well, look at the results.

Insane fan community that supports this series like crazy. At this point I feel if ANY Japan-centric franchise should be in Smash in any capacity, on the indie side, Touhou of course, but industry side? It'd be iDOLM@STER. We got so many obscure Nintendo games represented in so many ways, I feel as Smash broadens the horizons, iDOLM@STER at the very least should be on the long list of IPs in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Shroob]

So you do not want it in because it's cliche anime?

Are...Are you me? Because I swear we have the same opinions on these kind of characters XD. Aside from Elma and Rex & Pyra, I prefer characters from series like Fire Emblem, Persona, and Senran Kagura out of Smash.

Basically this is me when comes to almost every anime-esque character request for Smash:

>No waifu allowed
>Senran-****ing-Kagura

Is this a joke?

 

[Deleted member]

So how would guys react to the notion of spirits mode actually being a mode where you raise chibi versions of Smash characters to improve their Smash fighter AI? Like you're in this mode where have a Blazblue Cross Tag Battle chibi styled version of a Smash character, and the more your praise, train, whatever, the stronger it's AI gets in battle.

How mad would you be if that happened?

 

[Shroob]

If anything, it'd make more sense to add an iDOLM@STER character, given how much of a serious ****ing goliath that franchise is, probably more than Shadowverse and Granblue combined. When you've got 13 years of support, establish and try different things other than being an idol game series, and especially don't shut down fanmade support unlike some franchises like Love Live! (which is why you don't really see much of the franchise anymore, especially after the Muse Era ended), you got yourself a serious money making machine. If Cinderella Girls never took off, we wouldn't really be saying these sorts of things, but Bandai Namco didn't **** up with iM@S, and well, look at the results.

Insane fan community that supports this series like crazy. At this point I feel if ANY Japan-centric franchise should be in Smash in any capacity, on the indie side, Touhou of course, but industry side? It'd be iDOLM@STER. We got so many obscure Nintendo games represented in so many ways, I feel as Smash broadens the horizons, iDOLM@STER at the very least should be on the long list of IPs in Smash Ultimate.

Nah, can't be Idolm@ster, bruh.


The idol fanbase is ****ing insane.


Granblue had a Love Live collab a few months ago and the idol fanbase almost lost their **** at the thought of their 'pure' idols being on the same screen as a man.

 

[PsySmasher]

Well as you all can tell (especially from my profile pic), I like Dragalia Lost as a game. I have a soft spot for dragons/dragon-like characters (just look at the majority of my mains), so a mobile JRPG featuring them as a central focus definitely got me interested. Plus I like games that play out like an anime (I know it can be cheesy as **** sometimes, but I enjoy it). And I've got the main menu theme stuck in my head.

In terms of gacha games in general, I'm fine with them. Since the game is free to play (or start), I have no reason not to try it out. I've had FE Heroes for about 3 months and still have not spent a penny on it.

For Smash, I can only see a Dragalia character getting in as DLC, possibly to represent a Nintendo mobile IP (this is their first original mobile IP). It would be a nice way to represent Nintendo as it is in the present day.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So how would guys react to the notion of spirits mode actually being a mode where you raise chibi versions of Smash characters to improve their Smash fighter AI? Like you're in this mode where have a Blazblue Cross Tag Battle chibi styled version of a Smash character, and the more your praise, train, whatever, the stronger it's AI gets in battle.

How mad would you be if that happened?

I’d be pretty disappointed because that’s not the kind of thing you blur out as if it’s a big secret. Especially considering that’s basically just amiibo in terms of functionality.

 

[osby]

So how would guys react to the notion of spirits mode actually being a mode where you raise chibi versions of Smash characters to improve their Smash fighter AI? Like you're in this mode where have a Blazblue Cross Tag Battle chibi styled version of a Smash character, and the more your praise, train, whatever, the stronger it's AI gets in battle.

How mad would you be if that happened?

Mad? Give me all the Snake chibis!

(and how the heck you make Kirby more chibi?)

EDIT: Ahem, yeah, something something gameplay something something expectations.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm aware.
I'm just a grumpy old man with dumb tastes and judging by its current downloads, and the success of gachas in general, I'm in the vast minority.



Don't get me wrong.
I don't dislike anime or animesque things. Hell, I love a lot of FE and Persona characters that are done well. (Never touched Senran though) on top of a backlog of anime I've been meaning to watch.

I just... really dislike tripe I've already seen done (and done better)

I feel you. I understand where you're coming from. I'm worn out on anime stuff like that as well.

So, Palutena and Zelda are out?

Palutena maybe, Zelda no. I have specific criteria of what I consider "waifu-bait", but I'm not sure if I should post it or not.

>No waifu allowed
>Senran-****ing-Kagura

Is this a joke?

Hey man. I'm just saying. What I've seen of that series, that series is some high-tier anime stuff, and I'm not saying that in a postive way lol.

 

[Zinith]

So how would guys react to the notion of spirits mode actually being a mode where you raise chibi versions of Smash characters to improve their Smash fighter AI? Like you're in this mode where have a Blazblue Cross Tag Battle chibi styled version of a Smash character, and the more your praise, train, whatever, the stronger it's AI gets in battle.

How mad would you be if that happened?

You're asking this to a guy that had THIS for an avatar for 3 months:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just... really dislike tripe I've already seen done (and done better)

Then why do ya play SMT?

Spoiler

Cause people won't get it, I'm joking.

 

[Shroob]

Then why do ya play SMT?

Spoiler

Cause people won't get it, I'm joking.

Oof, that one hurt ME, Swamp.

 

[Deleted member]

Nah, can't be Idolm@ster, bruh.


The idol fanbase is ****ing insane.


Granblue had a Love Live collab a few months ago and the idol fanbase almost lost their **** at the thought of their 'pure' idols being on the same screen as a man.

Now see, you won't get that with iDOLM@STER fans, because they support their seiyuus no matter what. Love Live fans? Yeah, those are the ones that are insane and treat it like a K-POP group.

I don't blame them on at least this instance, considering Lantis doesn't know what the **** to do with the franchise. iDOLM@STER practically beaten that franchise to a pulp with that Cinderella Girls anime completely thrashing Love Live S2 and launching the Side M project being a one-two punch to the gut, and there are other idol series that provide much better entertainment, so what can you really do? Literally the only thing they can do is bring back the Muse series of girls, but I don't think even that will help.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oof, that one hurt ME, Swamp.

Great!

Now you're in the right mindset to play SMT.

Spoiler

I'll stop.

 

[PsySmasher]

So how would guys react to the notion of spirits mode actually being a mode where you raise chibi versions of Smash characters to improve their Smash fighter AI? Like you're in this mode where have a Blazblue Cross Tag Battle chibi styled version of a Smash character, and the more your praise, train, whatever, the stronger it's AI gets in battle.

How mad would you be if that happened?

I wouldn't mind if this mode was real.

However, I would have a problem with this if it was the highly speculated "spirits" mode.

As an extra side mode, I would like it.

 

[Shroob]

Now see, you won't get that with iDOLM@STER fans, because they support their seiyuus no matter what. Love Live fans? Yeah, those are the ones that are insane and treat it like a K-POP group.

I don't blame them on at least this instance, considering Lantis doesn't know what the **** to do with the franchise. iDOLM@STER practically beaten that franchise to a pulp with that Cinderella Girls anime completely thrashing Love Live S2 and launching the Side M project being a one-two punch to the gut, and there are other idol series that provide much better entertainment, so what can you really do? Literally the only thing they can do is bring back the Muse series of girls, but I don't think even that will help.

Honestly, I don't even know a thing about Love Live, so most of that flew right over my head.


All I know about it were the extremists on Twitter throwing death threats at Cygames for daring to have men in their game.

 

[osby]

Palutena maybe, Zelda no. I have specific criteria of what I consider "waifu-bait", but I'm not sure if I should post it or not.

It must be pretty spesific, since I'm sure there are people whose waifus are Wii Fit Trainer or Ridley.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I’d be pretty disappointed because that’s not the kind of thing you blur out as if it’s a big secret. Especially considering that’s basically just amiibo in terms of functionality.

Hopefully Sakurai knows what he's doing. Mostly everyone when seeing the blurred out mode, with no talk of a single player mode, essentially thought the same thing--Subspace 2. That's not to say that would be it, but if it doesn't reach similar type of hype, blurring the mode was a big mistake.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Watch PapaGenos latest video. He says the box theory could still be credible only that it WON'T be the final roster similarly to the cards. It will only be up to date with the latest reveal and get printed still leaving out characters.

Box theory people are looking at it as if there's only one outcome and that outcome alone.

I said it to PapaGenos and I'll say it to you too:

This is Tower of Smash "there are unrevealed characters if you link the 3DS and Wii U versions of Smash Bros" level of mental gymnastics right here. Sakurai said we'd get every newcomer before release, and I highly doubt that when he said it he meant "we'll save a couple of characters until after we tell you we've revealed the full roster and put it in promotional material."

If Incineroar and Ken is all we get, any character after that is going to be DLC.

That idea is incredibly stupid.

 

[Shroob]

Does it kill anyone else that we can't have The Moon(Ducktales) in Smash due to the Disney Copyright?

That is probably one of the most iconic songs to ever come out of the NES' library, and it's Disney of all companies.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

For real, I just find SMT to be overly pessimistic and depressing. It just comes off as very melodramatic to me. The difference in tone is why I much prefer Persona.

That said, put Jack in so they're both repped.

 

[Idon]

Then why do ya play SMT?

Spoiler

Cause people won't get it, I'm joking.

Because I'm an edgy contrarian.

I too, am joking.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

For real, I just find SMT to be overly pessimistic and depressing. It just comes off as very melodramatic to me. The difference in tone is why I much prefer Persona.

That said, put Jack in so they're both repped.

Because I'm an edgy contrarian.
View attachment 167883

Well this is awkward timing.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I said it to PapaGenos and I'll say it to you too:

That idea is incredibly stupid.

But that's not what's being said. The point being the promotional box art does not need to have every character on it, and may very well do so to prevent leaks from characters being revealed after it's been printed, but before the game's released. They're not saying he'll reveal the "full roster" and whoops, here's some more. The assumption is the box art would only have characters that had been revealed before they began printing the final design.

And I don't believe in Box Theory, but it's a sensible claim to make.

 

[Shroob]

Seriously kills me that this song, arguably one of the NES' most iconic songs, has a 0% shot of Smash due to Disney's involvement.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I don't even know a thing about Love Live, so most of that flew right over my head.


All I know about it were the extremists on Twitter throwing death threats at Cygames for daring to have men in their game.

Ah, those probably weren't really Love Live fans, as I just remembered about the big scandal where one of the main Muse seiyuus, Emi Nitta, was found in an adult video back 2 years ago. THAT was most definitely the nail in the coffin for the series. Most likely are fans of the lackluster Love Live Sunshine part of the franchise.

Really, Love Live is just a walking corpse just trying to relive the glory days that's like Kantai Collection: it tried to take down the big dog, yet failed. Failed very, very miserably. There's a fanbase for Love Live Sunshine, of course, but nowhere even close as insane as the OG fanbase back in 2013-2014.

 

[osby]

For real, I just find SMT to be overly pessimistic and depressing. It just comes off as very melodramatic to me. The difference in tone is why I much prefer Persona.

That said, put Jack in so they're both repped.

It says something when Persona 3 of all games is more optimistic than Shin Megami Tensei in general.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If anything, it'd make more sense to add an iDOLM@STER character, given how much of a serious ****ing goliath that franchise is, probably more than Shadowverse and Granblue combined. When you've got 13 years of support, establish and try different things other than being an idol game series, and especially don't shut down fanmade support unlike some franchises like Love Live! (which is why you don't really see much of the franchise anymore, especially after the Muse Era ended), you got yourself a serious money making machine. If Cinderella Girls never took off, we wouldn't really be saying these sorts of things, but Bandai Namco didn't **** up with iM@S, and well, look at the results.

Insane fan community that supports this series like crazy. At this point I feel if ANY Japan-centric franchise should be in Smash in any capacity, on the indie side, Touhou of course, but industry side? It'd be iDOLM@STER. We got so many obscure Nintendo games represented in so many ways, I feel as Smash broadens the horizons, iDOLM@STER at the very least should be on the long list of IPs in Smash Ultimate.

Does that mean we can get Snow Halation as a song?

That'd be a good meme right there.

Seriously kills me that this song, arguably one of the NES' most iconic songs, has a 0% shot of Smash due to Disney's involvement.

Okay, but what if, it's a song on a Kingdom Hearts stage because why the **** not?

Just another reason for Sora's inclusion.

 

[Shroob]

Does that mean we can get Snow Halation as a song?

It'd be the first actual meme in Smash Bros.

Snow Halation is Love Live, not Idolm@ster, I at least know THAT much.

 

[Deleted member]

It must be pretty spesific, since I'm sure there are people whose waifus are Wii Fit Trainer or Ridley.

Lol! True!

Well, what I consider "Waifu Bait" are characters like Makoto Nanya, Ivy, Asuka, and pretty much almost every female from Fire Emblems Awakening and Fates, while characters like Samus, Bayonetta, Jill Valentine, and Terra Bradford are not what I consider Waifu Bait. It all depends on how the game in questions handles them I suppose.

 

[Shroob]

Question in regards to the playlist update.


As impossible as it is, if there IS an unlisted video there, isn't it possible it could leak as long as someone found the link?

 

[Idon]

For real, I just find SMT to be overly pessimistic and depressing. It just comes off as very melodramatic to me. The difference in tone is why I much prefer Persona.

That said, put Jack in so they're both repped.

Yeah, it totally gets dark at times...

But just because it can get dark, doesn't mean it doesn't have a sense of humor. It's probably more bizarre than it ever is depressing.
(Like, there's the obligatory Mara sidequest in every game with more phallic humor than you can shake a stick at.)

Plus, for the most part, you're always trying to make the light at the end of this really dark tunnel brighter. It's a series truly believes in the power of humanity above all else. It just wants to paint a situation where that power can really shine and be genuine.

And for a non-dark SMT story, check a look at SMT4:Apocalypse. Name aside, it's actually cheerier than most Persona games.

It says something when Persona 3 of all games is more optimistic than Shin Megami Tensei in general.

I'd actually say SMT4:A is lighter in tone. Sure it's technically a post-apocalypse, but there's no self-sacrifice, no slow-killing diseases, no friend deaths, no ideaological infighting within your friend groups, and everything turns out super ok.

Heck there's even a beach episode. Weirdly enough.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Snow Halation is Love Live, not Idolm@ster, I at least know THAT much.

****.

Question in regards to the playlist update.


As impossible as it is, if there IS an unlisted video there, isn't it possible it could leak as long as someone found the link?

I suppose, but good luck with that. That's like looking for a single atom in a hay field.

But that's not what's being said. The point being the promotional box art does not need to have every character on it, and may very well do so to prevent leaks from characters being revealed after it's been printed, but before the game's released. They're not saying he'll reveal the "full roster" and whoops, here's some more. The assumption is the box art would only have characters that had been revealed before they began printing the final design.

And I don't believe in Box Theory, but it's a sensible claim to make.

In context of card theory, maybe, but I don't imagine Nintendo would print the box for the Special Edition of the game without, you know, the actual roster of the game.

It is sensible? Sure, I'll concede to that.
Is it worth actually considering? No. Not at all.

 

[osby]

Lol! True!

Well, what I consider "Waifu Bait" are characters like Makoto Nanya, Ivy, Asuka, and pretty much almost every female from Fire Emblems Awakening and Fates, while characters like Samus, Bayonetta, Jill Valentine, and Terra Bradford are not what I consider Waifu Bait. It all depends on how the game in questions handles them I suppose.

I guess. Still, it isn't really a deal-breaker for me if the character in question is cool and/or written well.

(Also what about guys? IT knew what it was doing when designing characters like Owain)

 

[Deleted member]

For real, I just find SMT to be overly pessimistic and depressing. It just comes off as very melodramatic to me. The difference in tone is why I much prefer Persona.

That said, put Jack in so they're both repped.

Well, I'm pretty much the oposite. I like SMT because it offered me something different and interesting. It offered me something I looked for in a game. I like SMT's atmosphere and ideological antagonistic forces, as well as the demon designs for the demons. The gameplay's pretty challenging too, which is a welcome for me. In contrast, Persona just felt...boring. I dunno if it was the later game's tone, the characters, or the fact the so much goddamn time is spent waiting for the next plot point to happen, Persona just didn't click with me. I guess these kinds of games like Persona are just not for me.

I'm not trying to call you out or anything. It's more than fine to like Persona. I just think it's funny how you view SMT as "depressing and dark" while I view Persona as "Generic and Boring." Goes to show how different the two series are.

 

[Shroob]

I still remember when I had to pirate Nocturne due to having hyper religious parents.


The game locked up at a stairway labyrinth by never giving me more stairs down.


And then I never pirated a PS2 game again.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess. Still, it isn't really a deal-breaker for me if the character in question is cool and/or written well.

(Also what about guys? IT knew what it was doing when designing characters like Owain)

Err...What are you asking me with "What about guys?"

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Err...What are you asking me with "What about guys?"

What do you feel about "husbando-bait" characters, or parallels to the ones you listed. osby specifically asked for your opinion about Owain from Fire Emblem Awakening, a game in which you hate every female character.