Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[cothero]

My thoughts about Shadow? Maybe Sakurai doesn't see him as a potential echo for Sonic, so maybe he won't include him. Sakurai always stated that third party representation is kept at minimum in smash, so i can't see two original reps from one third party franchise. Richter is very similar to Simon in Castlevania and Ken is very similar to Ryu in the early SF games, but i honestly can't see many similarities between Shadow and Sonic, they play very differently.

 

[xjthegulpin]

Sooo like....no one else finds it weird that these leaks and theories basically state that Splatoon and Castlevania are the ONLY new IPs with characters? Smash 4’s introduction started off with three brand new characters from new IPs. It’s just weird to only have two this time around, it’s a very small nitpick so I cant really complain if that should be the case during release and these leaks are correct.

 

[amazonevan19]

Your rant didn't bother me, as I feel the same in a way. You can think a character makes perfect sense, and if it's possible, then it seems reasonable to want to expect it. You are special, though--you get to decide if Ultimate is ultimately (heh heh) worth your money, with or without Shadow. If it's worth it, great. If not, nobody can tell you otherwise (not saying that's the case for you, but whenever people talk about entitlement that's my first criticism). Indeed nobody is entitled to a character, but likewise Nintendo isn't entitled to a sale. It can be difficult, though, when you're in the middle and while it's still worth it for you, it still feels like something's "missing". That third option is how I feel with Shadow--I can get Ultimate even if he's not revealed, but it would still feel like such a missed opportunity.

You pretty much nailed it for me. I am really excited for ultimate and can't wait to get it. So Nintendo's already sold me on it and I'm not going to go "BOYCOTT ULTIMATE FOR NOT INCLUDING WHO I WANT!!!" That'd be incredibly silly.

The problem is, like you said, I will feel like Ultimate missed a HUGE opportunity should Shadow not make it, and it'd be pretty damn unfortunate.

I didn't feel as strongly about Ultra Sun and Moon giving us actually decent, not half-assed content, but that game was kind of the same deal for me. Since I'm a hardcore pokemon fan, I was already going to buy Ultra, but my enthusiasm was really low and I overall felt the game was a huge missed opportunity.

Banjo's not one of my top requests but I would love to see him make it, especially over or alongside Steve. Here's to hoping we can both be happy come launch or DLC!

 

[Shroob]

Sooo like....no one else finds it weird that these leaks and theories basically state that Splatoon and Castlevania are the ONLY new IPs with characters? Smash 4’s introduction started off with three brand new characters from new IPs. It’s just weird to only have two this time around, it’s a very small nitpick so I cant really complain if that should be the case during release and these leaks are correct.

The thing is, outside of 3rd party franchises, there just aren't a lot of new IPs left for Nintendo to pull from.

Outside of more niche games like Rhythm Heaven or Golden Sun, there just isn't a lot left.


Splatoon was arguably Nintendo's last 'big' IP left to get into Smash, and ARMs has been deemed 'too new'.


So that just leaves 3rd parties and retro picks, among the other niche franchises which may or may not get in.

 

[osby]

Sooo like....no one else finds it weird that these leaks and theories basically state that Splatoon and Castlevania are the ONLY new IPs with characters? Smash 4’s introduction started off with three brand new characters from new IPs. It’s just weird to only have two this time around, it’s a very small nitpick so I cant really complain if that should be the case during release and these leaks are correct.

Not really suprising. Ultimate pretty much only draws from fan picks and only really big fan picks that are from new IPs are Isaac, Banjo-Kazooie and... that's pretty much it.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Sooo like....no one else finds it weird that these leaks and theories basically state that Splatoon and Castlevania are the ONLY new IPs with characters? Smash 4’s introduction started off with three brand new characters from new IPs. It’s just weird to only have two this time around, it’s a very small nitpick so I cant really complain if that should be the case during release and these leaks are correct.

That's been my problem so far. I'm hoping Inklings isn't the only first party character from a new series--which is my top pick for that is Isaac, and possibly a Felix echo. And of course I'm rooting for a new IP from a third party series (who is, technically, possibly in the DK canon given Diddy Kong Racing).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's been my problem so far. I'm hoping Inklings isn't the only first party character from a new series--which is my top pick for that is Isaac, and possibly a Felix echo. And of course I'm rooting for a new IP from a third party series (who is, technically, possibly in the DK canon given Diddy Kong Racing).

Dude I have never ****ing seen anyone want Conker before this holy ****

 

[Idon]

Were that any of us were so important as to even be an afterthought to Sakurai.

Don't worry, I've come up with a few ways we can "get through" to Sakurai:

1. Being a Japanese game developer with years of friendship with him and a massively popular IP you own.
2. Have the stars align and have your most wanted game be either popular, relevant, easy to procure the rights to, or impactful on videogame/Nintendo history, ( and releases far before the initial project plan.)
3. Gather a massive group and whine for ALMOST TWENTY YEARS.
4. Be Sakurai.
5. Be Sakurai's boss.

 

[SonicMario]

i honestly can't see many similarities between Shadow and Sonic, they play very differently.

They played exactly the same in Sonic Adventure 2 (His debut and where he was at his most popular) and in Sonic Forces (the most recent game with a playable Shadow)

 

[Shroob]

Dude I have never ****ing seen anyone want Conker before this holy ****

I'd take Conker in a heartbeat over Banjo if it meant we got Windy in as a song.


Don't @ me Banjofans.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Dude I have never ****ing seen anyone want Conker before this holy ****

You joke, and without wanting to offend anybody, if I personally was able to have a second Microsoft character... I mean, come on, he'd come with a ****ing chainsaw.

(my first pick, if you can't obviously guess, is Pipsy )

 

[amazonevan19]

My thoughts about Shadow? Maybe Sakurai doesn't see him as a potential echo for Sonic, so maybe he won't include him. Sakurai always stated that third party representation is kept at minimum in smash, so i can't see two original reps from one third party franchise. Richter is very similar to Simon in Castlevania and Ken is very similar to Ryu in the early SF games, but i honestly can't see many similarities between Shadow and Sonic, they play very differently.

You have a point...maybe he will, maybe he won't. In most Sonic games, the two play nearly identically. Shadow has chaos powers and a bike and stuff but that was either in spinoffs like his titular game or Sonic Battle.

But in SA2B, they play the same. In Heroes, they play the same. Go down the list where the two are both playable up until Sonic Forces and you'll realize in almost every instance, they play very similarly.

To me, I'd hope Shadow's other abilities would have him be in as a semi clone, but I know that's way too much to expect or ask, so I am 100% fine with and hoping he makes it as an echo of sonic with a couple of tweaks. Like I've said before, Sakurai will look at Shadow and say "oh that's black Sonic, boom echo," and I'd be over the moon in hype just to see him in. If Shadow is a semi clone and plays anywhere near like he plays in the fan game (Smash Unity is it called? idfk) then idk what'd I'd do XD

 

[N3ON]

Sooo like....no one else finds it weird that these leaks and theories basically state that Splatoon and Castlevania are the ONLY new IPs with characters? Smash 4’s introduction started off with three brand new characters from new IPs. It’s just weird to only have two this time around, it’s a very small nitpick so I cant really complain if that should be the case during release and these leaks are correct.

Well echoes aren't going to be from new series, and if we are set to only receive one more non-echo in base, that would put us at six characters. One third isn't a terrible ratio. DLC will probably take it from there.

3. Gather a massive group and whine for ALMOST TWENTY YEARS.

The Isaac fans are within spitting distance... so any day now...

Any day...

 

[Deleted member]

So, out of these third party candidates I'm listing below, I'd like you to rank them on how "hype" they would be to you.

The canidates are:
Zero (Mega Man X)
Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Jin Kazma (Tekken)
Dark Souls Protagonist (Dark Souls)
Llyod Irving (Tales of series)
Kazuma Kiryu (Yakuza)
Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Bill Rizier (Contra)
Doomguy (DOOM)
Rayman (...Rayman)

It'd help if you would rank them by number. Oh, an feel free to give me your reason/thoughts. I love reading your guys opinions .

 

[amazonevan19]

Dude I have never ****ing seen anyone want Conker before this holy ****

Can we get a Conker support thread going? I'd unironically support it

 

[Zinith]

Can we get a Conker support thread going? I'd unironically support it

Here it is...

https://smashboards.com/threads/a-bad-smash-day-conker-for-smash.455216/

 

[Deleted member]

Don't worry, I've come up with a few ways we can "get through" to Sakurai:

1. Being a Japanese game developer with years of friendship with him and a massively popular IP you own.

I wish. My lifelong dream is to be a video game developer. But maybe minus the whole the "Sakurai frendship" thing.

 

[Idon]

So, out of these third party candidates I'm listing below, I'd like you to rank them on how "hype" they would be to you.

It'd help if you would rank them by number. Oh, an feel free to give me your reason/thoughts. I love reading your guys opinions .

1. Doomguy (DOOM)
2. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
3. Dante (Devil May Cry)
4. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
5. Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil)
6. Rayman (...Rayman)
7. Dark Souls Protagonist (Dark Souls)
8. Bill Rizier (Contra)
9. Kazuma Kiryu (Yakuza)
10. Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
11. Llyod Irving (Tales of series)
12. Jin Kazma (Tekken)
13. Zero (Mega Man X)

Top 3 are my babies and have shaped the way I appreciate videogames and games I've played over and over and over and over again.
4-11 are just plain old good games that I've completed once or twice and don't really plan on playing again.
12 is only so low because in terms of Mishimas, I want Kazuya, then Heihachi, theeeeen Jin.
No offense to 13, but I'd just rather have more Capcom IPs represented than another Megaman character. And if were going to get a 2nd unique megaman character, I'd rather it be Sigma.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Here it is...

https://smashboards.com/threads/a-bad-smash-day-conker-for-smash.455216/

I'd support Conker, for realz, if Banjo & Kazooie got in. Banjo can be Rare's mascot, and Conker can be Microsoft's (as they're trying, and failing, to do). No offense to fans, but I take appearance on a Nintendo platform pretty important, tho not absolute, so I could honestly see him getting in before Master Chief (though I consider both chances near zero atm).

 

[cothero]

Sooo like....no one else finds it weird that these leaks and theories basically state that Splatoon and Castlevania are the ONLY new IPs with characters? Smash 4’s introduction started off with three brand new characters from new IPs. It’s just weird to only have two this time around, it’s a very small nitpick so I cant really complain if that should be the case during release and these leaks are correct.

Splatoon and Arms are the only two new Nintendo IP's that could get chacters in Ultimate, maybe a little too early for an Arms rep on the base roster, but it could be added as DLC. Also, that Hitagi guy mentioned a Dragalia Lost character too, which is a HUGE success in Japan and one of Nintendo newest IP's.

 

[amazonevan19]

So, out of these third party candidates I'm listing below, I'd like you to rank them on how "hype" they would be to you.

The canidates are:
Zero (Mega Man X)
Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Jin Kazma (Tekken)
Dark Souls Protagonist (Dark Souls)
Llyod Irving (Tales of series)
Kazuma Kiryu (Yakuza)
Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Bill Rizier (Contra)
Doomguy (DOOM)
Rayman (...Rayman)

It'd help if you would rank them by number. Oh, an feel free to give me your reason/thoughts. I love reading your guys opinions .

From top to bottomi in terms of hype:

1. Doomguy - holy hell (heh) I love DOOM. It'd be so badass being able to RIP and TEAR Jigglypuff. He has deep Nintendo history and strong recency in Doom for Switch port and the upcoming Doom Eternal. I'm sure he'd have an amazing moveset and I'd love watching Sakurai's cheekiness in discussing Doomguy - "it's said that BFG stands for Big Fantastic Gun! *grins and winks*"

2. Rayman - though my personal experience with him is limited, I like Rayman and he'd be an excellent representative of the Ubisoft/Nintendo partnership. The only problem is, how the hell would they make his amiibo?

3. Ryu Hayabusa - little direct experience with the character even though I own a copy of Ninja Gaiden Black for the Xbox. (A friend let me borrow his Xbox but I couldn't get it to work on my TV). With OG Ninja Gaiden coming to the NES classic lineup, I think Ryu would be insanely hype to have in the game. Only issue is potential confusion with the other Ryu...

4. Dark Souls Protagonist - I am pretty hyped for Dark Souls on Switch and what better way to get another Bandai Namco rep in than through having the Dark Souls duderino in? Having one of his taunts be Praising the Sun is 100000% mandatory.

5. Sora - I played some of the original KH on playstation aaaaaaaaaagges ago and really like the series generally speaking. Just never was able to get into it really. While I'd prefer Geno as the SE rep, Sora is pretty cool and I'd be in favor of him making it.

6. Zero - He's like the Shadow of the Mega Man series. Pretty cool but I have limited experience with him directly.

7. Lara Croft - practically no direct experience but she seems badass and tomb raider is a very longstanding, storied franchise.

8-?. Everyone else on your list (don't have any experience with them and would thus be entirely indifferent to their inclusion)

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

QUOTE="Alastor017, post: 22505477, member: 405572"]So, out of these third party candidates I'm listing below, I'd like you to rank them on how "hype" they would be to you.[/QUOTE]

Rayman (...Rayman)
Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Llyod Irving (Tales of series)
Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Zero (Mega Man X)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Jin Kazma (Tekken)
Dark Souls Protagonist (Dark Souls)
Kazuma Kiryu (Yakuza)
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Bill Rizier (Contra)
Doomguy (DOOM)

No reasons here. Sorry, its 1 am over here.

 

[Fenriraga]

It was a game that failed massively.

I doubt it'd have any major consideration when selecting newcomers.

Still, I'm honestly baffled he hasn't gone beyond trophy status. No stage, no assist, no item, not even music. Even games like Custom Robo and other obscure IPs get at least a bit of love outside of the trophy room, and Chibi DID survive up until the 3DS, something other lesser Nintendo IPs can't say.

I love the first game. Not so much the other games in the series, but I'd love some representation. Obviously not as a fighter, but I think he's earned at least something beyond a basic trophy.

 

[PsySmasher]

Splatoon and Arms are the only two new Nintendo IP's that could get chacters in Ultimate, maybe a little too early for an Arms rep on the base roster, but it could be added as DLC. Also, that Hitagi guy mentioned a Dragalia Lost character too, which is a HUGE success in Japan and one of Nintendo newest IP's.

Wait. When did Hitagi mention a Dragalia Lost character for Smash? Do you have a source?

 

[Deleted member]

Wait. When did Hitagi mention a Dragalia Lost character for Smash? Do you have a source?

What is Dragalia? Some sort of JRPG?

 

[Idon]

Also, that Hitagi guy mentioned a Dragalia Lost character too, which is a HUGE success in Japan and one of Nintendo newest IP's.

The day a Dragalia Lost character gets into Smash is the day my cynicism grows so big it kills me.

What is Dragalia? Some sort of JRPG?

Mobile phone game made by Cygames and Nintendo.
Has gacha elements and a top-down real-time combat system.

 

[Shroob]

What is Dragalia? Some sort of JRPG?

It's the mobile game Nintendo and Cygames are co-making.

 

[PsySmasher]

What is Dragalia? Some sort of JRPG?

It's Nintendo's newest mobile game/franchise. They partnered with Cygames, a very well-known Japanese mobile game developer, to make the game.

It just came out last Thursday.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Did we all just decide all of a sudden that Chibi-Robo doesn't stand a chance? I feel like we never talk about him and he had a game come out during what we think is the right time for Smash consideration.

Besides what people said about Zip-Lash, Chibi-Robo is simply just an obscure character with low demand, when fan demand is more important than ever and there being less newcomers for the base game than in Brawl and Smash 4. If this was Smash 4 2.0 where relevancy was king and Sakurai's newcomer choices prioritized playable representation for new series over established series with a hardon for quirky/gimmicky characters, Chibi-Robo could have had a chance, but in Ultimate he just can't compete. Chibi-Robo's only hope is a big fan outcry for DLC, or Ultimate's DLC going on for a very long time with a ton of characters beyond the big hitters.

 

[Deleted member]

It's the mobile game Nintendo and Cygames are co-making.

I see. I found out what it was. I'll be dead surprised if a character from that game gets in, given it's sales.

 

[Shroob]

Splatoon and Arms are the only two new Nintendo IP's that could get chacters in Ultimate, maybe a little too early for an Arms rep on the base roster, but it could be added as DLC. Also, that Hitagi guy mentioned a Dragalia Lost character too, which is a HUGE success in Japan and one of Nintendo newest IP's.

Also, unless Hitagi said something very recently, this is wrong.


Hitagi said Granblue Fantasy, NOT Dragalia Lost.


Cygames makes Granblue and Dragalia, and Granblue's the "Massively successful" one. Dragalia literally just came out.

 

[Deleted member]

The day a Dragalia Lost character gets into Smash is the day my cynicism grows so big it kills me.

Do you mind asking me why you say that? Not disagreeing with you in the slightest, just thought that was a funny way to describe your feelings towards the game XD.

 

[N3ON]

If Dragalia reached the success of Granblue, you'd better believe it'd get a character.

Too nascent to judge right now though.

Personally the game doesn't interest me. Then again I haven't played a mobile effort by Nintendo since GO, and that wasn't even really Nintendo.

 

[Shroob]

Cygames is more or less Japan's version of VALVe or Blizzard when you want to talk about them having 'massive IPs'.

Granblue rakes in billions of yen a month on average.

They have access to all the mobile Idolm@ster games.

And they make Shadowverse, aka anime Hearthstone that's on Steam.


Now that Nintendo's partnered with them for Dragalia, if Dragalia does do well, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a Cygames character in Smash as DLC, the company and its IPs are bloody massive in Japan.

 

[Idon]

Do you mind asking me why you say that? Not disagreeing with you in the slightest, just thought that was a funny way to describe your feelings towards the game XD.

Well let's just put it lightly and say I'm not a fan.

Spoiler: If you want to read more

Holy ****, is it the most tripe, cliche anime garbage I've ever seen. On top of the fact it looks like every single high-fantasy thing on the planet, it also has heavy use of gashapon mechanics which I despise more than anything else. Games like that always, without exception, just make you want to suck money out of you for what basically amounts to .pngs or ****ty 3d models. It is the most blatant example I've ever seen of appealing to the absolute lowest denominator and I hate it.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

Cygames is more or less Japan's version of VALVe or Blizzard when you want to talk about them having 'massive IPs'.

Granblue rakes in billions of yen a month on average.

They have access to all the mobile Idolm@ster games.

And they make Shadowverse, aka anime Hearthstone that's on Steam.


Now that Nintendo's partnered with them for Dragalia, if Dragalia does do well, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a Cygames character in Smash as DLC, the company and its IPs are bloody massive in Japan.

ehhhhhh I wouldn't go so far as to call them Valve or Blizzard, not even close. If we're comparing them to Western devs they'd be around where the Angry Birds guys were in their heyday.

 

[Shroob]

ehhhhhh I wouldn't go so far as to call them Valve or Blizzard, not even close. If we're comparing them to Western devs they'd be around where the Angry Birds guys were in their heyday.

I really can't make the comparison.

The closest they have is they both deal with mobile games, that's it.


Considering they also have, god knows how many manga, anime, music and other forms of media, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the company rakes in anywhere from 20 to 50 billion yen a month between all their ****.

 

[N3ON]

Cygames is more or less Japan's version of VALVe or Blizzard when you want to talk about them having 'massive IPs'.

Granblue rakes in billions of yen a month on average.

They have access to all the mobile Idolm@ster games.

And they make Shadowverse, aka anime Hearthstone that's on Steam.


Now that Nintendo's partnered with them for Dragalia, if Dragalia does do well, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a Cygames character in Smash as DLC, the company and its IPs are bloody massive in Japan.

It'd surprise me as much as getting a Valve or Blizzard character. I don't think Nintendo would opt to add a third-party of such uneven global recognition.

Well let's just put it lightly and say I'm not a fan.

Spoiler: If you want to read more

Holy ****, is it the most tripe, cliche anime garbage I've ever seen. On top of the fact it looks like every single high-fantasy thing on the planet, it also has gashapon mechanics which I despise more than anything else. Games like that always, without exception, just make you want to suck money out of you for what basically amounts to .pngs or ****ty 3d models. It is the most blatant example I've ever seen of appealing to the absolute lowest denominator.

For better or for worse, Smash inclusion isn't predicated on any of those factors though.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

I really can't make the comparison.

The closest they have is they both deal with mobile games, that's it.


Considering they also have, god knows how many manga, anime, music and other forms of media, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the company rakes in anywhere from 20 to 50 billion yen a month between all their ****.

Yeah but if we're being generous that still only puts them around where someone like Square Enix is, only minus the history. Blizzard is one of the largest Western developers ever, and Valve owns the uncontested largest platform for PC gaming. I'm not disputing that Cygames makes a lot of money but Valve probably makes more in a slow month than Cygames does all year.

 

[Deleted member]

Well let's just put it lightly and say I'm not a fan.

Spoiler: If you want to read more

Holy ****, is it the most tripe, cliche anime garbage I've ever seen. On top of the fact it looks like every single high-fantasy thing on the planet, it also has gashapon mechanics which I despise more than anything else. Games like that always, without exception, just make you want to suck money out of you for what basically amounts to .pngs or ****ty 3d models.

So you do not want it in because it's cliche anime?

Are...Are you me? Because I swear we have the same opinions on these kind of characters XD. Aside from Elma and Rex & Pyra, I prefer characters from series like Fire Emblem, Persona, and Senran Kagura out of Smash.

Basically this is me when comes to almost every anime-esque character request for Smash: