Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CaptainAmerica]

@Rie Sonomura

A correction is not out of the table. They fixed Dark Samus's.

Holy **** they did. I just checked.

I always took as female, so they're both still 'she's in my game at least.

So... people don't seem to understand how evil the villains and antagonists actually are...

I'll just make a tier list.

Doesn't try to actively hurt people:

Needs a reason to hurt people:

Hurts people for fun:

A lot of people tend to put characters like Mewtwo, Ganondorf or Bowser as more evil then they actually are.

This just in: The King of Evil is not supremely evil.

...yeah, I think there's a difference between 'evil' and 'goes out and does the dirty work himself.' I really can't see the Dorf kart-racing with Link. Just because he'd rather let other people kill doesn't make him less evil.

We are talking about an incarnation of the monster that turned Hyrule into a post-apocalyptic wasteland and killed its royalty and champions, after all.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Let's not forget Metal Face, who's so petty that he's willing to go to war with his entire species just because he didn't get what he wanted. He's also incredibly sadistic.

Hades has a complete disregard for life.

Andross is willing to have galactic war purely for his own ambition.

Fire Emblem has several villains that are blatant heartless.

Honestly, Bowser is a pretty nice guy compared to most.

I got some ratings to do then.

 

[Robertman2]

Pretty sure Fire Emblem has villains that implied ****, so using FE is cheating

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Holy **** they did. I just checked.

I always took as female, so they're both still 'she's in my game at least.


This just in: The King of Evil is not supremely evil.

...yeah, I think there's a difference between 'evil' and 'goes out and does the dirty work himself.' I really can't see the Dorf kart-racing with Link. Just because he'd rather let other people kill doesn't make him less evil.

We are talking about an incarnation of the monster that turned Hyrule into a post-apocalyptic wasteland and killed its royalty and champions, after all.

Still, Ganondorf has moments of mercy.

Not only that, but he never really goes out to hurt people for the sake of it.

Ganondorf is ruthless, but he isn't sadistic like the last three.

 

[Jetsurge]

The King of Evil is not supremely evil.

He isn't. He's just destined to be evil because of Demise's curse.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Alright here we go.

1. Porky Minch
2. Andross
3. Metal Face
4. Hades
5.
6. Black Shadow
7.
8.
9.

Only FE villain I know pretty much is Black Knight. Not sure where I'd honestly rank him though...

 

[amazonevan19]

Random question: why has Professor Layton hype died so hard this cycle? I remember him being a huge sleeper pick for smash 4 but for some reason I see very little hype/support for him this time around. Is it because he hasn't been in a game for ages and his daughter's headlining her own game now? (Which btw it isn't a bad game; it is very charming and fun but the writing could be better and some of the puzzles are complete bull****).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Only FE villain I know pretty much is Black Knight. Not sure where I'd honestly rank him though...

He's about Bowser tier.

Evil, but has some good points.

If you want a purely evil Fire Emblem villain, I'd take your pick of Gharnef or Ashnard.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Our buddy NGameTheCube seems to know some people who have sources who say Kencineroar is it for base roster-

I've heard the name, but don't know his credibility when it comes to "leaking"? And most of it is common sensical speculation, outside of the brief mention of Ken/Incineroar being *possibly* the final characters that he's heard from people... who have sources. Which makes it he said, they said, they said, much like Verge's claims of hearing about Steve's possible playability. So--eh. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't tell us anything.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Yall forgot the prime evil.

Really, why do they make this abomination?? It is so scary that even to this day it still send shivers down my spine.

 

[Jetsurge]

Random question: why has Professor Layton hype died so hard this cycle? I remember him being a huge sleeper pick for smash 4 but for some reason I see very little hype/support for him this time around. Is it because he hasn't been in a game for ages and his daughter's headlining her own game now? (Which btw it isn't a bad game; it is very charming and fun but the writing could be better and some of the puzzles are complete bull****).

The series finished so there hasn't been any new games (at least with Layton himself).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yall forgot the prime evil.
View attachment 167724
Really, why do they make this abomination?? It is so scary that even to this day it still send shivers down my spine.

Honestly, Giygas is more of a force of nature then pure evil.

It doesn't even have sentience anymore.

 

[Robertman2]

Besides the true most evil villain is Nook

 

[mynameisBlade]

Everything K.Rool does is done to hurt the Kongs.

Ganondorf and Wario never obsess over anyone like that.

K.Rool is almost Joker level of evil.

K. Rool has always been the Joker to DKs BatKong.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

He's about Bowser tier.

Evil, but has some good points.

If you want a purely evil Fire Emblem villain, I'd take your pick of Gharnef or Ashnard.

I'd say Valter is up there, considering how ****-y he is through the entire game, and his absolute disregard for any life whatsoever.

Alright here we go.

1. Porky Minch
2. Andross
3. Metal Face
4. Hades
5.
6. Black Shadow
7.
8.
9.

Only FE villain I know pretty much is Black Knight. Not sure where I'd honestly rank him though...

Black Knight's a pretty chill dude. He helps Micaiah at some points in Radiant Dawn, and just wants a good fight more than anything else. I'd say he's kinda similar to Camus in terms of evil-ness, maybe a bit more so.

Even though Bowser's a prick, they still invite him to parties and go-kart races. Does Samus invite Ridley to parties? Does Link invite Ganondorf to kart races?
Nope. That's how you know how evil they are .

Bowser's a bad guy, but that doesn't mean he's a bad guy.

He even went to Villains Anonymous in Wreck-It-Ralph.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Generally my focus on who should be playable... it's kinda like this. In terms of who I like, Phosphora comes first, then Medusa, but if I wanted to be more realistic, Medusa over anyone else due to her history and iconic status, and then Phosphora. I keep bringing Phosphora up because well, there's a lot of things to consider. Assist Trophy she is, we've seen her fight in KIU and has potential movesets, though I do have an interesting view on how she should be done.

I do feel nervous about what others would think, but regarding Magnus and Hades, I am ultimately against them being playable. That don't mean ppl shouldn't still want em at least. I do prefer Hades as a boss or just an Assist Trophy who provides distractions and annoyances, better than Resetti of course.

Resetti is Dead, so anyone would be better than him...and I personally feel like Viridi would take a minor priority over Medusa thanks to Uprising and Smash 4 (her Mii costume, the RBF stage, and how much she’s in the Palutena Guidance convos...also Palutena needs a FoN rival, so why not Viridi)

Spoiler: Kid Icarus Uprising Spoilers

Uhh... have you found the secret after the credits? Hades is still alive at the end of the game.

Spoiler

just a sexy voice and none of the everything else...that’s more of a TFS Nail situation than being alive

 

[Jetsurge]

Yall forgot the prime evil.
View attachment 167724
Really, why do they make this abomination?? It is so scary that even to this day it still send shivers down my spine.

I'd agrue this part from Mother 3 is worse -

Spoiler

 

[LetterO]

Never got this question answered, and with there being not much to talk about in terms of theorys and leaks at this time, I have to ask.

Why do people think that 103 is the final stage count despite Sakurai never confirming or hinting at so? I've always thought that their being 108 stages made sense.

 

[WolfCypher]

Wolf only hurts people for money. He isn't shown to slaughter innocents or his own people for amusement like the others.
.

Wolf I agree with only being in the middle, he's not trying to take over the world for his own ambition, he's trying to get payed.

Ice King
Magneto
Black Manta
Xenomorph
Taskmaster
Deathstroke (ha! One eye to boot!)
Porky Minch = Cartman

 

[Jetsurge]

Ice King
Magneto
Black Manta
Xenomorph
Taskmaster
Deathstroke (ha! One eye to boot!)
Porky Minch = Cartman

THANOS

 

[Luigifan18]

The most evil FE villain is Surtr, hands down.

 

[Zinith]

HEY

JUST BECAUSE YOU EAT PEOPLE DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE EVIL

THEY'RE QUITE DELICIOUS

Exactly. I should know...

Spoiler

I love showing that video around for people to react to

 

[Robertman2]

most evil fe villain is :ultrobin, for breaking the bro code so hard.


that third gen morgan with aether was worth it tho

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Black Knight's a pretty chill dude. He helps Micaiah at some points in Radiant Dawn, and just wants a good fight more than anything else. I'd say he's kinda similar to Camus in terms of evil-ness, maybe a bit more so.

Camus isn't evil though.

He's straight up benevolent and just on the wrong side of the war.

 

[Noipoi]

Exactly. I should know...

Spoiler

I love showing that video around for people to react to

I can't believe Luigi's ****ing dead.

 

[LetterO]

Exactly. I should know...

Spoiler

I love showing that video around for people to react to

So Luigi was actually dead a looong time ago, huh?

 

[Knight Dude]

Random question: why has Professor Layton hype died so hard this cycle? I remember him being a huge sleeper pick for smash 4 but for some reason I see very little hype/support for him this time around. Is it because he hasn't been in a game for ages and his daughter's headlining her own game now? (Which btw it isn't a bad game; it is very charming and fun but the writing could be better and some of the puzzles are complete bull****).

Likely the reason why does have to do with the lack of him not headlining his own game for a while. Not sure why, but his support hasn't been as big as say, Phoenix Wright. If he has a character thread(he should)try to rally people up more. Even if this roster is decided, might as well try to go for DLC at the least.

 

[PsySmasher]

Never got this question answered, and with there being not much to talk about in terms of theorys and leaks at this time, I have to ask.

Why do people think that 103 is the final stage count despite Sakurai never confirming or hinting at so? I've always thought that their being 108 stages made sense.

I think it may have to do with the fact that excluding Battlefield, Big Battlefield, and Final Destination, there are exactly 100 stages, which Sakurai emphasized in the last direct.

I guess that to some people, 100 stages would be a nice, even number to end on. I personally don't subscribe to it, but I can see why some people are convinced.

 

[FalconFire93]

****.


Here it is. The ideal Geno voice.

Not the ideal voice I expected Geno to have, sounds kinda rough.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Never got this question answered, and with there being not much to talk about in terms of theorys and leaks at this time, I have to ask.

Why do people think that 103 is the final stage count despite Sakurai never confirming or hinting at so? I've always thought that their being 108 stages made sense.

While I do believe we probably have 108 stages, there is merit to it possibly only being 103. From the August Direct, Sakurai said:

"The stage total is turning out to be pretty impressive. Let's compare it to the totals in previous games. Now the total number of stages is, voila, 103--we must be crazy." Then he said excluding Battlefield, Big Battlefield and Final Destination "...we'd have exactly 100."

It seems weird to talk about totals--if it isn't the total stage count. That being said, the phrasing is still conflicting, as he also used the phrase "turning out" when referring to the total. So it could be the total they were revealing, not the final total (and some nuances may have been lost in translation). If this were the final total, they should have no problem clearing up the matter to avoid people from having too high of expectations given the debate. Even moreso since CoroCoro advertised the game as having 108 stages. If the real total is 103, and it was a mistake, they should correct it, otherwise it's false advertising (and it's been what a week or two now with no correction?). So, while there are good reasons to suggest 103 is the final count, I believe given this 108 may be the total.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Random question: why has Professor Layton hype died so hard this cycle? I remember him being a huge sleeper pick for smash 4 but for some reason I see very little hype/support for him this time around. Is it because he hasn't been in a game for ages and his daughter's headlining her own game now? (Which btw it isn't a bad game; it is very charming and fun but the writing could be better and some of the puzzles are complete bull****).

I think it’s multiple things, most fans just don’t think he’s likely, it’s hard to go through the emotional drain to support a character when you think they’re impossible.

1. Bad timing. The series was on hiatus during 2014-2016, which is when the project plan for ultimate was being created. I’m hoping we can rally a bunch of fans back to support Layton for Smash after the Curious Village HD remake.
2. Smash 4 DLC favoring big name 3rd party characters rather than 3rd party characters associated with Nintendo. Professor Layton does have a respectable amount of sales/popularity but it’s not up there with the likes of Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, and now Castlevania.
3. Most of his fans are casual and non-vocal in the smash community, the games don’t really appeal to the type of people who will campaign on messages boards or unofficial polls.

 

[AndreaAC]

Exactly. I should know...

Spoiler

I love showing that video around for people to react to

...Just when I thought Luigi getting killed by Death was shocking...Holy Hell.

 

[Zinith]

...Just when I thought Luigi getting killed by Death was shocking...Holy Hell.

My boi can be cute and kind-hearted, but things can go wrong and he can **** you up

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Camus isn't evil though.

He's straight up benevolent and just on the wrong side of the war.

Camus isn't evil, but his loyalty is strong enough to put him alongside the evil side of the war. Similarly, Black Knight isn't exactly evil, but his desire for a good fight puts him against Ike, specifically on the evil side of both wars. Black Knight is more evil though, so there's that.

 

[AndreaAC]

My boi can be cute and kind-hearted, but things can go wrong and he can **** you up

I knew there was a good reason to never trust a Yoshi. o-o

 

[Zinith]

I knew there was a good reason to never trust a Yoshi. o-o

Oh no, you can absolutely trust a Yoshi, just... watch your step

Spoiler

Also just noticed that you joined this site on my birthday. Ain't that something

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Still, Ganondorf has moments of mercy.

Not only that, but he never really goes out to hurt people for the sake of it.

Ganondorf is ruthless, but he isn't sadistic like the last three.

Ganon kills with purpose and has strict goals for what he wants when he needs to rule.

He wants to rule with an iron first and takes a no nonsense policy with disobedience. He shows his true power to his opponents and takes what he wants by force.

Love him as a villain.

 

[AndreaAC]

Oh no, you can absolutely trust a Yoshi, just... watch your step

Spoiler

Also just noticed that you joined this site on my birthday. Ain't that something

I would better to keep myself as far as possible from it.

Spoiler

What an odd coincidence indeed.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Likely the reason why does have to do with the lack of him not headlining his own game for a while. Not sure why, but his support hasn't been as big as say, Phoenix Wright. If he has a character thread(he should)try to rally people up more. Even if this roster is decided, might as well try to go for DLC at the least.

Professor Layton does have a support thread, we were actually were just discussing the rise in popularity that Phoenix Wright has been getting for smash recently. I’m trying to formulate ways to spur up some support for Layton for the inevitable DLC speculation era.

Spoiler: Discussion in Professor Layton thread

This ranking has reminded me that I’ve noticed a slow but steady rise in popularity for Phoenix Wright in the past few months. Atleast from my experience he seems to be popping up in more and more wishlists and polls than I’ve seen before despite things not really changing for him speculation wise. While I know vocal support isn’t that important in the grand scheme of things, I’ve been trying to analyze what has caused Phoenix’s vocal support to rise and possibly see if we could recreate it to get some more of a presence for Layton for Smash.

The demographics of people in Smash speculation and support might be starting to shift to more people who grew up with/heavily played the DS. There seems to be a growing sentiment of appreciation of the DS, I remember a popular picture being shared awhile back that showed the data of which Smash characters originated on which consoles, with the DS being woefuly under represented despite being one of Nintendo’s most popular consoles.

I guess what I’m saying is that maybe a good strategy for drumming up support for Layton is to appeal to the growing sense of DS nostalgia and championing him as the perfect representative of that era. Maybe even try to combine support with Phoenix supporters, foster a dream of the two DS icons that got a crossover game together, should join Smash together.

At the end of the day character choices are up to Sakurai, but I was mainly just throwing out ideas for rallying support during the DLC period, which seem more favorable for Layton’s chances.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Besides the true most evil villain is Nook

Nah man it’s actually Isabelle...she’s been lying to all of us and Nook for far too long (well her and Waluigi)