Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

Spoiler

There's no way Goro isn't the P5 assist trophy, unless he's an echo for Joker

Also Arle wouldn't fit in Fan Favorites.

Gonna say that Morgana is far more likely as an assist than all of them.

He is the mascot of Persona 5.

 

[Potato_]

Characters like Skull Kid, Impa, and Lip aren't DLC picks. DLC picks need to be absolutely hype inducing, and therefore must be either prominent in a prominent series, a headliner of a popular series not in Smash, or be a third party.

I get this point, and I even agree with you to an extent, but I'd argue one of your picks falls under the same problem.

Arle and Puyo are big in Japan. Here? I highly doubt anyone in the general gaming scene knows what Puyo is.

The other more obscure picks benefit from being Nintendo properties, or belonging to big Nintendo series. This is where I'd argue Skull Kid would fit as DLC due to being recognizable. Everyone knows the mask.

Also unrelated note but your Persona stage is a bit of a spoiler. Speaking as a dude who hasn't reached that part yet...

 

[Jchrono95]

We got anything new since yesterday?

 

[Flyboy]

It could work, but would also be disappointing overall. Characters like Skull Kid, Impa, and Lip aren't DLC picks. DLC picks need to be absolutely hype inducing, and therefore must be either prominent in a prominent series, a headliner of a popular series not in Smash, or be a third party.

Here's what I'd imagine seasons going like:

Spoiler: Lots of text

To start, our final roster is made up of Ken, Incineroar, and Steve.

Seasons are released about every six months, and include five characters each alongside stages for most, if not all of them, assist trophies, items, ect. I don't know much about pricing for fighting game seasons, but I imagine they'd cost anywhere from $20 - $30 per season.

Shorly after release (free for those with Nintendo Online): Geno or Sora

Season 1: The Latecomers ("These characters just barely missed the cut for Smash Brothers Ultimate, but we're excited to bring them to you now!") (Summer 2019)
Characters:
- Rex and Pyra
- Spring Man
- Octolings
- Banjo & Kazooie
- Geno or Sora & Roxas (whichever one wasn't shortly after release)

Stages:
- Argentum Trade Guild
- ARMS Arena
- Deepsea Metro
- Click Clock Wood
- Dive to the Heart/Star Road

Assists:
- Zeke
- Twintelle
- Pearl and Marina
- Mumbo
- Riku

Season 2 : New Horizons ("New series bring new challengers, stages, and more to Smash Brothers Ultimate!") (Winter 2019)
Characters:
- Isaac and Felix
- Chorus Men
- Lloyd Irving
- Dante
- Yu Narukami or Joker

Stages:
- Venus Lighthouse
- Rhythm Heaven (similar to Warioware)
- Tales of stage
- DMC stage
- Shadow World or Sae's Palace

Assists:
- Menardi and Saturos
- Tibby
- Kratos Aurion
- Trish
- Yosuke or Futaba

Season 3: Long Time Coming ("Patience is a virtue, and after waiting a long time these characters finally get their chance in Smash Brothers Ultimate!") (Summer 2020)
Characters:
- Paper Mario
- Dixie Kong
- Bandana Waddle Dee
- Tails
- Rayman and Globlox

Stages:
- Hooktail Castle
- Sunset Shore
- Dedede's Palace
- Chemical Plant Zone
- Castle in the Clouds

Assists:
- Kooper
- Funky Kong
- Adeleine
- Silver
- Rabbids

Season 4: The Fan Favorites (*occurs after a second Smash Ballot that occurred following the announcement of Season 3) ("You voted for these characters to have their chance in Smash Brother Ultimate, and here they are!") (Winter/Spring 2021)
Characters (speculated):
- Waluigi
- Lyn or Edelgard
- Arle Nadja
- Erdrick
- Crash Bandicoot and Coco Bandicoot

Stages:
- Mario Stadium
- Ostia Castle
- Puyo Puyo
- Charlock Castle
- Cortex's Laboratory

Assists:
- Spike
- Tiki
- Puyo Puyo character
- Slime
- Crunch Bandicoot

You tell me this wouldn't be a great final roster.

Love this. Arle's assist trophy would either be Tee from Puyo Puyo Tetris or someone like Witch, Sig, or The Dark Prince if I had to guess. Also I almost guarantee an Amitie echo.

Man, now I'm gonna be sad if this doesn't happen! I love that Joker is on this list!

 

[Idon]

We got anything new since yesterday?

If we did, we'd certainly still be talking about it for the next week.

 

[Jchrono95]

If we did, we'd certainly still be talking about it for the next week.

Yeah, doesn't hurt to ask though.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So on a related note about the potential of an Nintendo vs. Shonen Jump game. What rivalries can you guys think of? This is one I think works perfectly.

King K. Rool (Donkey Kong) and Blackbeard (One Piece): Both are villainous leaders of pirates and despite looking "fat" are relatively very strong.

 

[UserKev]

So uhhhh. Anyone else like "Damn speculation is dull as f right now?

 

[NextChannelGames]

It could work, but would also be disappointing overall. Characters like Skull Kid, Impa, and Lip aren't DLC picks. DLC picks need to be absolutely hype inducing, and therefore must be either prominent in a prominent series, a headliner of a popular series not in Smash, or be a third party.

Here's what I'd imagine seasons going like:

Spoiler: Lots of text

To start, our final roster is made up of Ken, Incineroar, and Steve.

Seasons are released about every six months, and include five characters each alongside stages for most, if not all of them, assist trophies, items, ect. I don't know much about pricing for fighting game seasons, but I imagine they'd cost anywhere from $20 - $30 per season.

Shorly after release (free for those with Nintendo Online): Geno or Sora

Season 1: The Latecomers ("These characters just barely missed the cut for Smash Brothers Ultimate, but we're excited to bring them to you now!") (Summer 2019)
Characters:
- Rex and Pyra
- Spring Man
- Octolings
- Banjo & Kazooie
- Geno or Sora & Roxas (whichever one wasn't shortly after release)

Stages:
- Argentum Trade Guild
- ARMS Arena
- Deepsea Metro
- Click Clock Wood
- Dive to the Heart/Star Road

Assists:
- Zeke
- Twintelle
- Pearl and Marina
- Mumbo
- Riku

Season 2 : New Horizons ("New series bring new challengers, stages, and more to Smash Brothers Ultimate!") (Winter 2019)
Characters:
- Isaac and Felix
- Chorus Men
- Lloyd Irving
- Dante
- Yu Narukami or Joker

Stages:
- Venus Lighthouse
- Rhythm Heaven (similar to Warioware)
- Tales of stage
- DMC stage
- Shadow World or Sae's Palace

Assists:
- Menardi and Saturos
- Tibby
- Kratos Aurion
- Trish
- Yosuke or Futaba

Season 3: Long Time Coming ("Patience is a virtue, and after waiting a long time these characters finally get their chance in Smash Brothers Ultimate!") (Summer 2020)
Characters:
- Paper Mario
- Dixie Kong
- Bandana Waddle Dee
- Tails
- Rayman and Globlox

Stages:
- Hooktail Castle
- Sunset Shore
- Dedede's Palace
- Chemical Plant Zone
- Castle in the Clouds

Assists:
- Kooper
- Funky Kong
- Adeleine
- Silver
- Rabbids

Season 4: The Fan Favorites (*occurs after a second Smash Ballot that occurred following the announcement of Season 3) ("You voted for these characters to have their chance in Smash Brother Ultimate, and here they are!") (Winter/Spring 2021)
Characters (speculated):
- Waluigi
- Lyn or Edelgard
- Arle Nadja
- Erdrick
- Crash Bandicoot and Coco Bandicoot

Stages:
- Mario Stadium
- Ostia Castle
- Puyo Puyo
- Charlock Castle
- Cortex's Laboratory

Assists:
- Spike
- Tiki
- Puyo Puyo character
- Slime
- Crunch Bandicoot

Here's the roster visualized:
View attachment 167722

You tell me this wouldn't be a great final roster.

93+ characters! That’s crazy...I don’t think Assist Trophy characters would get DLC treatment. But I like the season idea because it does make sense for them to support the game for maybe 3 years

 

[Robertman2]

So on a related note about the potential of an Nintendo vs. Shonen Jump game. What rivalries can you guys think of? This is one I think works perfectly.

King K. Rool (Donkey Kong) and Blackbeard (One Piece): Both are villainous leaders of pirates and despite looking "fat" are relatively very strong.

Jigglypuff vs Mr. Satan.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Spoiler

There's no way Goro isn't the P5 assist trophy, unless he's an echo for Joker

Also Arle wouldn't fit in Fan Favorites.

I said it was speculated, so it's nothing concrete. For all we know it could be anyone else not in the game at this point. Arle's Japanese popularity could certainly carry her though, especially if "fan favorites" takes from different regions.

Also Akechi as a Joker echo would be great, but it'd be stretching his character's capabilities (Joker would use multiple--7 - 10--Personas, whereas Akechi has only been shown to use 2).

I get this point, and I even agree with you to an extent, but I'd argue one of your picks falls under the same problem.

Arle and Puyo are big in Japan. Here? I highly doubt anyone in the general gaming scene knows what Puyo is.

The other more obscure picks benefit from being Nintendo properties, or belonging to big Nintendo series. This is where I'd argue Skull Kid would fit as DLC due to being recognizable. Everyone knows the mask.

Also unrelated note but your Persona stage is a bit of a spoiler. Speaking as a dude who hasn't reached that part yet...

Sorry man. Smash doesn't care much for spoilers though, so I could easily see that being our stage. Mementos is also possible as a large, randomly generated dungeon stage. Feel free to replace Arle with Skull Kid if you believe he'd be more likely as a fan pick.

Gonna say that Morgana is far more likely as an assist than all of them.

He is the mascot of Persona 5.

But Futaba is best girl is one of the most popular Persona 5 characters, at least more so than Morgana. Plus, she also has an easy effect, being providing buffs and healing.

 

[Knight Dude]

Nintendo vs Shonen Jump...Nah. When's Nintendo vs Capcom? That's that good ****. Mega Man, Ryu, Strider, Chun-Li, MMX, Zero, Akuma, Morrigan, Jill, Dante, Nero, Tron, Phoenix Wright, Viewtiful Joe, Arthur, Ammy. There's a ton of options to choose from.

Hell, I would say Capcom's got the best selection of game characters after Nintendo themselves. Sega or Konami would be 3rd I think. And A Nintendo vs Sega game would cause the most hype given their old rivalry during the SNES and Genesis days.

 

[Noipoi]

So uhhhh. Anyone else like "Damn speculation is dull as f right now?

You think this is bad? Wait until we're at the end of October with nothing new to talk about.
If we're lucky we'll get a random trailer drop like Robin/Lucina, but I think we might have to wait until November.
And it's gonna suck...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nintendo vs Shonen Jump...Nah. When's Nintendo vs Capcom? That's that good ****. Mega Man, Ryu, Strider, Chun-Li, MMX, Zero, Akuma, Morrigan, Jill, Dante, Nero, Tron, Phoenix Wright, Viewtiful Joe, Arthur, Ammy. There's a ton of options to choose from. Hell, I would say Capcom's got the best selection of game characters after Nintendo themselves. Sega or Konami would be 3rd I think. And A Nintendo vs Sega game would cause the most hype given their old rivalry during the SNES and Genesis days.

The reason I think Nintendo vs. Shonen Jump would be an awesome idea is because its gamings most iconic and recognizable company against mangas most iconic and recognizable company. That and both are Japanese creations but two different categories. One gaming and one manga.

This is my ideal roster.

Spoiler

Nintendo:

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Yoshi
6. Wario
7. Donkey Kong
8. Diddy Kong
9. King K. Rool
10. Link
11. Zelda
12. Ganondorf
13. Samus
14. Ridley
15. Pit
16. Palutena
17. Fox
18. Pikachu
19. Mewtwo
20. Lucario
21. Kirby
22. Meta Knight
23. King Dedede
24. Bandana Dee
25. Marth
26. Roy
27. Lucina
28. Ike
29. Shulk
30. Rex & Pyra
31. Inkling
32. Spring Man
33. Ribbon Girl
34. Isaac
35. Ness
36. Captain Falcon
37. Ice Climbers
38. Mr. Game and Watch
39. R.O.B
40. Little Mac

Shonen Jump:

1. Goku
2. Vegeta
3. Gohan
4. Piccolo
5. Trunks
6. Frieza
7. Beerus
8. Luffy
9. Zoro
10. Sanji
11. Trafalgar Law
12. Blackbeard
13. Naruto
14. Sasuke
15. Sakura
16. Kakashi
17. Orochimaru
18. Midoriya
19. Bakugou
20. All-Might
21. Todoroki
22. Ichigo
23. Rukia
24. Aizen
25. Gon
26. Killua
27. Kurapika
28. Hisoka
29. Yusuke
30. Hiei
31. Kurama
32. Kuwabara
33. Medaka
34. Joseph Joestar
35. Jotaro Kujo
36. Dio Brando
37. Tsuna (Hitman Reborn Character)
38. Gintoki (Gintama)
39. Kenshiro (Fist of the North Star)
40. Raoh (Fist of the North Star)

Of course not without the help of Alastor. Credit still goes to him.

 

[MainJPW]

Wait... does Wario have muscles?

All this time, I never knew he was that swole.

Wah?


Mate, Wario’s always been JACKED:

Spoiler: Swole official art.

Wario Land 3 idle:

Wario Land 4 idle:

Power Tennis:

With one hand. And It cratered the ground and shook the ROOM when he dropped it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So... people don't seem to understand how evil the villains and antagonists actually are...

I'll just make a tier list.

Doesn't try to actively hurt people:

Needs a reason to hurt people:

Hurts people for fun:

A lot of people tend to put characters like Mewtwo, Ganondorf or Bowser as more evil then they actually are.

 

[Astroworld]

i don’t need even know what the hell shonen jump is

keep anime characters out of Smash as far as i’m concerned

 

[Michael the Spikester]

i don’t need even know what the hell shonen jump is

keep anime characters out of Smash as far as i’m concerned

Not in this game but rather an potential crossover like Marvel vs. Capcom. I think that's what Smash should tackle next whether that or with Capcom.

 

[UserKev]

You think this is bad? Wait until we're at the end of October with nothing new to talk about.
If we're lucky we'll get a random trailer drop like Robin/Lucina, but I think we might have to wait until November.
And it's gonna suck...

I really miss the pre-deconfirmed Mimikyu days, Ashley hype, K Rool, Bomberman, Ridley and even Waluigi hype. Its not the same anymore.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So... people don't seem to understand how evil the villains and antagonists actually are...

I'll just make a tier list.

Doesn't try to actively hurt people:

Needs a reason to hurt people:

Hurts people for fun:

A lot of people tend to put characters like Mewtwo, Ganondorf or Bowser as more evil then they actually are.

I'd argue that Ganondorf and maybe Wolf could move up a tier. Ganondorf is kinda just straight up evil.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'd argue that Ganondorf and maybe Wolf could move up a tier. Ganondorf is kinda just straight up evil.

Ganondorf maybe evil but compared to Ridley who eats people out of warfare. Not even a comparison.

Even then they don't compare to Porky and he's just a freakin kid!!!!

 

[Astroworld]

Not in this game but rather an potential crossover like Marvel vs. Capcom. I think that's what Smash should tackle next whether that or with Capcom.

Id rather have Capcom vs Nintendo

I love Capcom’s characters but I don’t know anything about nor do I care about Marvel. I played MvC3 a little and I recognized maybe 2 of the Marvel characters. Spider-man and Wolverine

So... people don't seem to understand how evil the villains and antagonists actually are...

I'll just make a tier list.

Doesn't try to actively hurt people:

Needs a reason to hurt people:

Hurts people for fun:

A lot of people tend to put characters like Mewtwo, Ganondorf or Bowser as more evil then they actually are.

Define “reason”. Cause Ganon and Wario are definitely just selfish douches that like to be evil for the sake of it. If you put them in that category, why not K Rool? All he did is steal some bananas. Not like he was trying to destroy the world like Ganon does

 

[Robertman2]

I said it was speculated, so it's nothing concrete. For all we know it could be anyone else not in the game at this point. Arle's Japanese popularity could certainly carry her though, especially if "fan favorites" takes from different regions.

Also Akechi as a Joker echo would be great, but it'd be stretching his character's capabilities (Joker would use multiple--7 - 10--Personas, whereas Akechi has only been shown to use 2).

Sorry man. Smash doesn't care much for spoilers though, so I could easily see that being our stage. Mementos is also possible as a large, randomly generated dungeon stage. Feel free to replace Arle with Skull Kid if you believe he'd be more likely as a fan pick.

But Futaba is best girl is one of the most popular Persona 5 characters, at least more so than Morgana. Plus, she also has an easy effect, being providing buffs and healing.

Tbh, I would only have Arsene in Joker's moveset, outside of maybe Satanael as a Final Smash. My biggest want is that the interactions between the two (if any) are full of good ol ship tease.


Also I'll take Arle over Skull Kid.
I'd replace her with a Bethesda rep, especially after that Pete Hines comment

 

[Shroob]

Ganondorf maybe evil but compared to Ridley who eats people out of warfare. Not even a comparison.

Even then they don't compare to Porky and he's just a freakin kid!!!!

Ganondorf through all of his incarnations as Ganondorf/Ganon has been implied to kill how many people?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Id rather have Capcom vs Nintendo

I love Capcom’s characters but I don’t know anything about nor do I care about Marvel. I played MvC3 a little and I recognized maybe 2 of the Marvel characters. Spider-man and Wolverine

That's fine. We all have different preferences anyways. I respect that.

I mean just the idea of Mario going against Goku or Naruto and such. It'd be pretty cool honestly but that's just me I guess...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd argue that Ganondorf and maybe Wolf could move up a tier. Ganondorf is kinda just straight up evil.

Wolf only hurts people for money. He isn't shown to slaughter innocents or his own people for amusement like the others.

Ganondorf is ruthless, but he has a goal that ultimately doesn't involve hurting anyone, just imposing his rule.


Meanwhile, Dark Samus is a natural force of evil who has a sadistic streak. Ridley is a genocidal maniac and K. Rool is so blatantly unhinged, his own men try to flee from him on a regular basis and tries to starve on an island due to a personal vendetta.

 

[Knight Dude]

Wario's been in the Buff Fat Squad since it's founding days with E. Honda and the Kingpin. Did y'all forget?

I really miss the pre-deconfirmed Mimikyu days, Ashley hype, K Rool, Bomberman, Ridley and even Waluigi hype. Its not the same anymore.

I get what you mean, it's usually more fun when everyone's more positive. Still looking forward to whatever other characters we might have though. If there's another Ballot, I think that'll help bring back the hype, as long as no one's a coward and willing to vote for whoever they feel like.

 

[Robertman2]

HEY

JUST BECAUSE YOU EAT PEOPLE DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE EVIL

THEY'RE QUITE DELICIOUS

 

[Noipoi]

I really miss the pre-deconfirmed Mimikyu days, Ashley hype, K Rool, Bomberman, Ridley and even Waluigi hype. Its not the same anymore.

Yeah the early speculation days were fun, but think of it this way. after this dry patch we'll get the final direct which is sure to be awesome. And after that the games out! we don't have much to go.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ganondorf through all of his incarnations as Ganondorf/Ganon has been implied to kill how many people?

When we look more in depth into Ridley. You'll realize he's no doubt among Nintendo's most evil, sadistic and ruthless villains. Not saying Ganondorf isn't but he still doesn't compare to Ridley and Porky.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Define “reason”. Cause Ganon and Wario are definitely just selfish douches that like to be evil for the sake of it. If you put them in that category, why not K Rool? All he did is steal some bananas. Not like he was trying to destroy the world like Ganon does

Everything K.Rool does is done to hurt the Kongs.

Ganondorf and Wario never obsess over anyone like that.

K.Rool is almost Joker level of evil.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

K.Rool is almost Joker level of evil.

Especially being he's mentally unstable if the bloodshot eye is something to go by.

 

[Noipoi]

Define “reason”. Cause Ganon and Wario are definitely just selfish douches that like to be evil for the sake of it. If you put them in that category, why not K Rool? All he did is steal some bananas. Not like he was trying to destroy the world like Ganon does

K Rool stole the banana hoard not because he liked bananas, but specifically to starve the Kongs to death.
He's insanely, inconceivably petty.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If I had to rate from most evil to least evil. It would be.

1. Porky Minch
2.
3. (To purposely try to steal bananas to starve an entire species. That's really low...)
4.
5.

Not sure how evil Black Shadow, Black Knight, Hades, Medusa and such are since I never played the games they appeared in so I can't really rate them...

 

[Knight Dude]

Ganon's sort of an embodiment of evil right? I think that puts him high on the list, though he's been given a reason for doing what he does in Wind Waker. Still given that he's "The King of Evil", whether Ridley, D. Samus and K.Rool are actually more evil than him doesn't much when they're all the same level of scummy. Wolf I agree with only being in the middle, he's not trying to take over the world for his own ambition, he's trying to get payed.

If I had to rate from most evil to least evil. It would be.

1. Porky Minch
2.
3. (To purposely try to steal bananas to starve an entire species. That's really low...)
4.
5.

Not sure how evil Black Shadow is so I can't really rate him...

Black Shadow is evil for the sake of it. He's kind of the best of every campy 60's comic villain, but without the depth of dudes like Green Goblin, Magneto or Dr.Doom. But that's why I like him.

 

[Idon]

Ganon's sort of an embodiment of evil right? I think that puts him high on the list, though he's been given a reason for doing what he does in Wind Waker. Still given that he's "The King of Evil", whether Ridley, D. Samus and K.Rool are actually more evil than him doesn't much when they're all the same level of scummy. Wolf I agree with only being in the middle, he's not trying to take over the world for his own ambition, he's trying to get payed.

Well that depends on if you think all Ganon reincarnations are held accountable for their other selves' actions.

At least Wind Waker Ganondorf had some sort of justification on what he wanted compared to BotW Ganon who's just "oooOOOoooh, I'm an evil ghoOOooost now."

 

[BlondeLombax]

With one hand. And It cratered the ground and shook the ROOM when he dropped it.

That was a blooper reel, too. The intro was just him making a show to entice the player into the game - the bloopers show that he really is just that buff.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Black Shadow is evil for the sake of it. He's kind of the best of every campy 60's comic villain, but without the depth of dudes like Green Goblin, Magneto or Dr.Doom. But that's why I like him.

So I'd either rank him above K. Rool or below then?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If I had to rate from most evil to least evil. It would be.

1. Porky Minch
2.
3. (To purposely try to steal bananas to starve an entire species. That's really low...)
4.
5.

Not sure how evil Black Shadow is so I can't really rate him...

Let's not forget Metal Face, who's so petty that he's willing to go to war with his entire species just because he didn't get what he wanted. He's also incredibly sadistic.

Hades has a complete disregard for life.

Andross is willing to have galactic war purely for his own ambition.

Fire Emblem has several villains that are blatantly heartless.

Honestly, Bowser is a pretty nice guy compared to most.

 

[Noipoi]

Even though Bowser's a prick, they still invite him to parties and go-kart races. Does Samus invite Ridley to parties? Does Link invite Ganondorf to kart races?
Nope. That's how you know how evil they are .