Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[geoluminescent]

Imho we'll see Lucina cut/turned into an alternate costume, maybe Corrin cut because Sakurai didn't want to add them in the first place, and probably a character from a new FE added. I don't keep up with the series well enough to say who that would be, though.

 

[Danpal65]

Mart, Ike, Robin, and Roy stay
Lucina gets cut, Corrin gets cut
They then add a character/characters from the new swiitch game
or make everyone happy and add Hector or Lyn which would replace Roy as the FE GBA rep

I reckon we might see Lucina returning as a palette swap for Marth instead of being cut. Roy, though, I think may get cut. Any new FE character(s) will probably be from FE16 I'd imagine. Especially if they are getting revealed at E3.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That said, I don't think the issues with Smash 4's roster can't be ignored. You correctly identified Sakurai adding characters he wants.

Evidence please?

Fire Emblem is the obvious

It's actually NOT obvious.

Lucina was meant to be a costume and was separated because of her differences. Roy was added because the fans want him. Sakurai actually orginally did NOT want to add Corrin because he knew there were already five Fire Emblem characters. He added Corrin because he was convinced that he was unique.

but even Ryu was added for Sakurai, not for you.

Street Fighter is extremely popular. So once again. Citation needed.

These will have to be addressed.

No. They won't.

But the issue isn't "I want this character so I'm upset." It's more a matter of focus. Take Fire Emblem. It's not a big series and the most successful game has only sold 2.5 million. But it got 6 characters, and two of the DLC characters

Lol. No. It's one of the most successful Nintendo IPs now.

Now, compare that to DK, a series which has a long history of successes and a lot of characters. Why do those characters get snuffed and Fire Emblem gets a ton.

Maybe it's because Sakurai is a good director and doesn't shoo in characters for the sole purposes of evening out the numbers, like a child who complains someone else has a bigger cookie.

One series having more than another literally does not matter at all. The characters who get added, get added on their merits alone. As they should be.

If you see Smash as a celebration of Nintendo, you get pushed to the side so Sakurai can make his fan game.

It makes me sad that you're even allowed to play his games when this is how you thank him. You're literally insulting the man at this point.

And as the pool of the most wanted guest characters shrinks, who will get in? It will be who Sakurai wants, not the fans.

That's why he literally held a poll asking people to vote for their most wanted character. Sakurai is an educated director who doesn't bend over backwards for fanboys who want Waddle Dee and Midna. What a crime.

All that said, I think Iwata let Sakurai do whatever he wants where Kimishima won't.

Did you meet these people?

I think Nintendo may not want him to play around as much.

For the hundredth time. Citation needed.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So this talk of selfishness, imo, begins and ends mostly with the above average quantity of Uprising content.

And even then, a large part of that probably comes with how easy it was to use the assets.
what im not biased

 

[TheSmasher916]

So... Making a short reply also count as a warning .... Got it...

Anyways, check out this Smash Bros Switch theme mock up, which really sounds like what it could be in the game.

I really would love this as the actual theme, the way it transitions to Melee and Brawl's theme is perfect

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh yeah, anybody else kinda want Gooey playable? Bandana Dee is more obvious and probable, and I also want him, honestly, but... Gooey's kinda got a charm to him, too, you know?

Mmm....

Not yet...

I think Bandana Dee is the only newcomer Kirby should have right now.

That said. I am happy that Gooey is back and hope this means more future appearances.

 

[SmashChu]

Aww Yeah! The FElicia cult has a chance!
Seriously though, do you guys see the same, or less(or MORE!) Fire Emblem characters being in Smash Switch?

Less, mostly due to cuts. Good chance there will be a new character, but there will be a pairing down. It is kind of hard with Nintendo's most successful mobile game being Fire Emblem Heroes (which did come out after Smash 4). I'm thinking Roy and Corrin are gone and add one.

 

[Chron]

Lord knows I dislike the abundance of FE characters in Smash, but Sakurai initially intended on only three, then expanded one out of an alt, added another because they were a fan-favourite, and had trepidations about the last until others "convinced" him to do it. All of this can be found on SourceGaming.

So this talk of selfishness, imo, begins and ends mostly with the above average quantity of Uprising content.

I personally like all of the Fire Emblem characters, but that's likely just because I'm just a big fan of the series. My ideal set of FE characters for Smash Switch would be: Marth, Ike, Celica, Fjorm, Felicia, Corrin. They each have unique movesets and represent many weapons and styles from Fire Emblem. Of course, Lucina(with Chrom/Marth fighting style) and Chrom would be cool but I am not great at making movesets and can't think of a very unique one for Chrom. I'll leave it to whoever is interested.

EDIT: WE'VE HIT 500!!!

 

[N3ON]

And even then, a large part of that probably comes with how easy it was to use the assets.
what im not biased
:061"

I mean yeah... but... there were a plethora of usable assets from nearly all the notable series...

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

500 pages and there shouldn't be more Fire Emblem characters. I'm sick of them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

They're gonna have to hit with a ton of info soon enough. Smash 4 had a year or two to spread out its reveals, Smash Switch doesn't have that luxury.

I don't think they'd hide a lot of the game until release, that'd be marketing suicide. Keeping a few characters under wraps would be expected, but they can't keep too much from us.

I actually don't expect any hidden characters this game. If any characters are held back, I would think they will be free DLC that players are challenged to as soon as they start the game (or shortly after in some fashion).

Sakurai discussed cutting Subspace Emissary due i part to the surprises being ruined by the internet.
And also, various other reasons, prove he enjoys surprising fans.

There's not much of a reason the hidden characters should be on disc, after the DLC from the past has shown him that is a great route.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I mean yeah... but... there were a plethora of usable assets from nearly all the notable series...

But none that Sakurai had already spent years working with and knowing the ins-and-outs of

500 pages lul. speed.

 

[papagenos]

page 500...I wonder how many pages we'll get to by the time the game comes out...

 

[Starcutter]

Fire Emblem I personally think Marth, Ike, Robin and Lyn seems about right. (maybe even furtherly decloned Roy if we wanna be spicy)

 

[geoluminescent]

Mmm....

Not yet...

I think Bandana Dee is the only newcomer Kirby should have right now.

That said. I am happy that Gooey is back and hope this means more future appearances.

Mm, fair enough. I wouldn't complain about a lack of Gooey or anything, it'd just be nice if he showed up.

 

[Danpal65]

I actually don't expect any hidden characters this game. If any characters are held back, I would think they will be free DLC that players are challenged to as soon as they start the game (or shortly after in some fashion).

Sakurai discussed cutting Subspace Emissary due i part to the surprises being ruined by the internet.
And also, various other reasons, prove he enjoys surprising fans.

There's not much of a reason the hidden characters should be on disc, after the DLC from the past has shown him that is a great route.

But unlocking characters, either through something like subspace, or playing with friends is one of the best parts about Smash. I remember back in Melee having characters like Marth and Mewtwo appear and being so surprised and amazed. I want more of that!

 

[N3ON]

But none that Sakurai had already spent years working with and knowing the ins-and-outs of

500 pages lul. speed.

That never stopped him from being more impartial in representation beforehand~

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Mart, Ike, Robin, and Roy stay
Lucina gets cut, Corrin gets cut
They then add a character/characters from the new swiitch game
or make everyone happy and add Hector or Lyn which would replace Roy as the FE GBA rep

As much as I dislike Corrin as a character, I can't see her getting cut because of her unique moveset.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Anyone a fan of Balloon Fighter?
He was, after all, the most iconic character linked to Iwata directly (meaning, not just his assisting).
Sakurai has always been one to show respect, and this is not a case that would be different (instead a case where it would be even more respect).

I could certainly see Villager having a different ^B (since the Balloons have very little to do with Animal Crossing anyway, just package arrival....Villager really has no reason to be strong aerially), and an entire moveset be based around Balloon Fighter's unique attributes.

 

[geoluminescent]

As much as I dislike Corrin as a character, I can't see her getting cut because of her unique moveset.

A unique moveset isn't a guarantee that someone won't get cut, although it certainly diminishes the probability. Look at the lack of Mewtwo in Brawl, or Squirtle/Ivysaur in Smash 4. Or Snake, although the circumstances there were probably more related to Konami than Nintendo's decisions.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly?

I think keeping our Fire Emblem roster exactly the same would be ideal.

 

[pupNapoleon]

But unlocking characters, either through something like subspace, or playing with friends is one of the best parts about Smash. I remember back in Melee having characters like Marth and Mewtwo appear and being so surprised and amazed. I want more of that!

I want more of that too!

And there is no way for the characters to be a surprise if they are not DLC. That is explicitly why I think they will be DLC.

A unique moveset isn't a guarantee that someone won't get cut, although it certainly diminishes the probability. Look at the lack of Mewtwo in Brawl, or Squirtle/Ivysaur in Smash 4. Or Snake, although the circumstances there were probably more related to Konami than Nintendo's decisions.

Now that Fire Emblem has as many characters as Pokemon, there is no reason to think they would not cut a unique moveset.
Especially since (probably) Ivysaur, and absolutely Squirtle, are more iconic to an overall market than Corrin.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I say keep unlockable characters, and let people keep their main saved to an amiibo. Any amiibo. So they can access a locked character if need be.

Sorta like when you could save Miis to your Wiimote... anyone remember that easily overlooked feature on the Wii?? Eh.

 

[Troykv]

Honestly?

I think keeping our Fire Emblem roster exactly the same would be ideal.

Well; unless something very mindblowing happens behind the scenes with FE16... There aren't exactly many choices that are both extremely relevant and unique.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Excluding DLC cases, is there a chance that the roster is already decided since it's launching this year?
And it's possible to speculate WHEN the roster was decided if the answer for the above question is "Yes"?

 

[Fastblade5035]

In my silly opinion there isn’t really a need to cut the FE roster down. Roy can stay as DLC, Lucina can start to get semi-cloned slowly, and the rest are fine. Every other series just needs some more newcomers so that the FE party doesn’t seem too large.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Honestly?

I think keeping our Fire Emblem roster exactly the same would be ideal.

I don't really like that half of it is Awakening/Fate tbh. I think it'd better to lose one and gain one from a different corner of FE, whether that be Lyn due to popularity, a Feh character due to the success of that, or something else. (I just really hope they hold off on a brand new FE character til we actually know them)

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Honestly?

I think keeping our Fire Emblem roster exactly the same would be ideal.

I would replace Lucina with either Hector or Ephraim.

Seriously, just give us a non-sword user FE character.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well; unless something very mindblowing happens behind the scenes with FE16... There aren't exactly many choices that are both extremely relevant and unique.

But then again, Keeping Marth and Lucina both in is not exactly that unique.
And then add Roy in.... and well...

 

[N3ON]

Honestly?

I think keeping our Fire Emblem roster exactly the same would be ideal.

K well remember this when we get new character(s) and cut(s) and people think it's just as good lol.

 

[Scamper52596]

I guess I've sort of asked similar questions before, mainly about Zelda newcomers in general, but this time it's someone specific.

What do some of you think about Tetra's chances? Mainly asking to hear some different viewpoints and opinions. I've always thought she's only had small chances myself, but I remain a fairly avid supporter of her.

Tetra is still one of my most wanted characters, but unfortunately I don’t find her chances that good these days. Breath of the Wild seems to have been teased in the trailer to get focused on for Zelda content, and Wind Waker HD isn’t very relevant anymore. Unless we get a surprise Zelda character and Sakurai found some inspiration in Tetra’s votes on the Smash Ballot; maybe even got some inspiration from her inclusion in Hyrule Warriors (which are both small possibilities), I’m not keeping my hopes up. I had more hope during the DLC period when we didn’t get a Zelda character in the base game and the Pirate Ship stage randomly got added back into the game, but obviously it didn’t pan out. Still, I’m just curious to see what Sakurai has planned for the Zelda franchise this time around...

 

[Danpal65]

I think what should happen is have as the base Fire Emblem cast then look at having or being added then the last slot being for a FE16 character, giving us a total of 6 Fire Emblem characters. This seems reasonable to me.

 

[pupNapoleon]

In my silly opinion there isn’t really a need to cut the FE roster down. Roy can stay as DLC, Lucina can start to get semi-cloned slowly, and the rest are fine. Every other series just needs some more newcomers so that the FE party doesn’t seem too large.

If they cut down Pokemon each iteration, theres no reason to think Fire Emblem will be safe.
They are in a similar boat, except Pokemon is much more popular. Both have new iterations that have completely new casts each game. And now, both were left with six characters. The other difference is that Pokemon has fully unique movesets, not one clone and a character who was initially a clone and still greatly resembles one.

 

[SmashChu]

Junk

There is really two things I need to say in regards to this nightmare of a post. First, don't break up an multiparagraph argument into single line quote boxes. Surprise: each point builds on the last. If you do that, you are missing my entire argument.Moreover, how the heck can I actually respond to any of those points, especially when half of it is lost in the quote ether. At the very least, at least say something more profound and not "Citation" or "No"

Second, I don't need a citation for conclusions or assessments. There was only a few things in that post that require any source. The Sakurai quotes (both of which can be found on Source Gaming with one of them being from a recent interview) and the sales numbers (which you can find on Nintendo's investor relations website). So no, me saying "I think Nintendo won't let Sakurai play around as much" does not need a citation. I think your one of those people who demands a source for every little thing and can't think for themselves. You can draw conclusions, make inferences, and develop analysis without a specific source. That last line doesn't need one.I'm happy to go over why I say that, but how about you just ask that instead.

 

[Troykv]

But then again, Keeping Marth and Lucina both in is not exactly that unique.
And then add Roy in.... and well...

They're products of filler time (and Roy's revival for being a fan favorite).

I'm talking about newcomers that would need bigger development time (like Ike and Robin).

 

[N3ON]

There is really two things I need to say in regards to this nightmare of a post. First, don't break up an multiparagraph argument into single line quote boxes. Surprise: each point builds on the last. If you do that, you are missing my entire argument.

Do you think people forget the previous sentence once they start reading the next?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I would replace Lucina with either Hector or Ephraim.

Seriously, just give us a non-sword user FE character.

Technically, you have a magic user and a dragonstone user.

K well remember this when we get new character(s) and cut(s) and people think it's just as good lol.

Now see, this is why I think we won't have any.

The timing.

Sakurai said that Awakening almost missed out on a new character back in Smash 4.

I think when the roster was decided...

The last game was either Fates or Shadows of Valentia.

And I doubt a SOV character.

 

[geoluminescent]

Oh yeah, speaking of Pokemon getting trimmed, who out of all them do y'all think will get cut? I feel like Pikachu and Jigglypuff are pretty obviously safe, and I feel like Charizard and Greninja will stay so Decidueye can round out the Fire/Water/Grass triangle. That leaves Mewtwo and Lucario; Mewtwo's already been cut once, but he feels a lot more iconic at this point than Lucario does. Both could be cut, I guess, but I think that'll only happen if Mimikyu is added in addition to Decidueye (assuming it makes it in, haha).

 

[Scamper52596]

Personally, I hope that the Fire Emblem franchise gets a rest this time around. Maybe we could just get a new stage. I don’t think any of the current Fire Emblem characters need to get cut as long as more aren’t added. Even though I ended up enjoying the way Corrin played and still play her from time to time for fun, I was never a fan of her inclusion in the first place. I think Fire Emblem is fine where it’s at and Sakurai should just focus on other franchises for this iteration of Smash.

 

[Chron]

I would replace Lucina with either Hector or Ephraim.

Seriously, just give us a non-sword user FE character.

Either of them would be cool, but Celica and Fjorm(other then being on mobile) seem like the most likely non-sword fighters.