Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bradli Wartooth]

Nobody ever suggested that Dixie would be a full on clone of Diddy, EVER.

What's just as unrealistic is the reverse. People who think she will share ZERO similarities to Diddy. She'd probably be on the level of Lucas, but with more unique special abilities. But, she will inevitably share some similarities to Diddy.

The similarity will be that she is a monkey. Just like all humans share similarities, and all pokemon are pokemon.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What?! How is Falco plot imortant? Compared to Andross no less?!

He's one of the 4 members of Star Fox? Even then, he's basically second in command.

The equivalent of the sidekick. The Luigi. The Tails.

Alright, I'm going to get you here, Falco wasn't more important than any other main character in Star Fox. I'm pretty sure he was picked due to popularity.

Yeah. But all four of them are main characters.

Fox, Falco, Slippy, Peppy, and Krystal (for the game's she's in) are all main characters.

I'm not going to get into a spat about who's inherently more important. That's not what I'm saying.

It's just that main characters get in Smash most of the time.

 

[Hinata]

It's been 4 days since smash was announced. We have not received a smidgen of info. We have nothing to analyze for 24 hours at a time

Ain't it fun? When we have nothing to analyze, we analyze everything.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

It's been 4 days since smash was announced. We have not received a smidgen of info. We have nothing to analyze for 24 hours at a time

Normally I wouldn't mind this.

......but I can only take the continued analysis of the darkened line-up and flaming Smash logo so much....

 

[AadmM]

That would be so lame. I don't see other games doing that! Keep thinking up cool subtitles, people, keep up the good work. It would be cool however, if the subtitle started with a V and actually had a cool sounding name.

Soul Calibur does it.

And on the subject of GCN controller support...honestly, that should just be the default "pro" controller layout from now on, if for no other reason besides Smash. They're like PB&J at this point.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I mean at least we've kept up some conversation. Yeah it sucks not having any real items to discuss, but we're still doin' our thing.

 

[Starcutter]

Nobody ever suggested that Dixie would be a full on clone of Diddy, EVER.

What's just as unrealistic is the reverse. People who think she will share ZERO similarities to Diddy. She'd probably be on the level of Lucas, but with more unique special abilities. But, she will inevitably share some similarities to Diddy.

Yeah, I knew I shouldn't have posted that.

What I meant was a lot of the moves I'd think would be unfitting for Dixie. The down tilt, down smash, up smash, forward smash and many other moves just look unfitting to the character of Dixie Kong, animation-wise. Those moves are just way too fast and spastic for Dixie.

Maybe a lot of those moves could be fixed by slightly slowing the animations, like how dixie worked in relation to diddy in DKC2, but overall most normal moves just don't work for me. That's what I meant.

 

[N3ON]

It's been 4 days since smash was announced. We have not received a smidgen of info. We have nothing to analyze for 24 hours at a time

For Brawl, all we got from E3 2006 to post E3 2007 was Fox.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's give you guys something to discuss: are Visual Novels considered games and are characters that debutted in them eligible for Smash?

I'm asking for a friend.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Falco is The Lancer, he's the second most important character by definition of the Trope.

That's the most absurd reasoning I could not have even anticipated. I can't believe I'm arguing about the likeliness of characters by such an arbitrary standard such as this.

This is just madness. You're practically moving the goal post at this point. My whole point to begin with is that this is NOT way of measuring how likely a character is.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Let's give you guys something to discuss: are Visual Novels considered games and are characters that debutted in them eligible for Smash?

I'm asking for a friend.

Monika is NOT allowed in Smash.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So I see we're talking a lot about characters, but we don't usually get into the movesets. I'd like to take a shot at Inklings.

I'm fairly certain they're going to be a Stage Control character, using either a neutral A or Neutral B attack to shoot ink around the stage. If an opponent gets caught in the ink, they'll be slowed down and unable to escape necessarily. The Inklings, whose abilities allow them to traverse the ink, will be able to swim in it, and start or continue a combo through this.

Other moves will include the Ink grenades as a Side B or Neutral B, the Mega Jump as the Up B. I'm thinking it might be an interesting idea if the Down B is a transformation into the squid form that would allow you to either reload the ink you've used, and swim in the Ink around the stage.

Another interesting idea I was thinking about. In Splatoon, if you shoot your opponent enough, they are KO'd. What if, in Smash, when you cover an opponent, you gradually slow them down? If you completely cover them, it causes knockback. That knockback could be used to continue a combo or create space between the players.

For the final smash, I think you could see the rocket from Splatoon 1, the Ground Pound from Splatoon 2, the Rainmaker, or something else I'm not thinking of.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to the Inklings moveset. There's no way it doesn't involve spreading Ink around as much as possible and controlling where your opponent goes.

 

[Danpal65]

Let's give you guys something to discuss: are Visual Novels considered games and are characters that debutted in them eligible for Smash?

I'm asking for a friend.

Personally, I would say no. Not because visual novels are not interesting, there are some really good ones out there, it is more so that they do not really fit into the same box as what is typically considered a "game." This also kinda goes towards the territory of manga and the like and that is a kettle of fish I would prefer to be far, far away from Smash games.

Monika is NOT allowed in Smash.

It would only be just Monkia though.

 

[Deleted member]

That's the most absurd reasoning I could not have even anticipated. I can't believe I'm arguing about the likeliness of characters by such an arbitrary standard such as this.

This is just madness. You're practically moving the goal post at this point. My whole point to begin with is that this is NOT way of measuring how likely a character is.

"Absurd reasoning" "madness" "arbitrary standard" "moving the goal post"
All I mentioned is the fact that Falco is The Lancer and thus acts as Fox primary Foil.
He's the Edgeworth to Fox's Wright or the Sasuke to Fox's Naruto.

Monika is NOT allowed in Smash.

I know, she never appeared in a Nintendo console after all.

Personally, I would say no. Not because visual novels are not interesting, there are some really good ones out there, it is more so that they do not really fit into the same box as what is typically considered a "game." This also kinda goes towards the territory of manga and the like and that is a kettle of fish I would prefer to be far, far away from Smash games.

Rip Phoenix Wright's chances.

 

[Lord-Zero]

That said, with the exceptions of Pokemon and Fire Emblem, newcomers aren't usually very likely to come because of very recent appearances.

That’s true. It truly depends on what’s the criteria this time.

@ waiting time: Well, at least we don’t have to wait too long. E3 isn’t really that far away and the fake leaks would keep us entertained.

 

[A Distant Demon]

For Brawl, all we got from E3 2006 to post E3 2007 was Fox.

That sounds awful

I cant imagine the smash fanbase stuck only being able to analyze a single character for that long.
oh wait Ridley was analyzed for the entirety of Smash For's length

Let's give you guys something to discuss: are Visual Novels considered games and are characters that debutted in them eligible for Smash?

I'm asking for a friend.

IMO yes, although it might depend.

AA is basically a fancy visual novel and Wright has a thread so. . .

If you make an Artoria thread I demand one of the alts be her in a suit. If it's gilgamesh, put me down as a supporter

 

[Troykv]

Kind of wish I got more of a response, but I'm still happy you got back to me about it.

Glad you liked it!



Just slap Charizard onto Pokemon Trainer again so we can get a 3-in-1 deal again

I'd prefer if none got cut honestly, for reasons you've already explained.

Oh sorry CHP, I need a better place to talk a detail about the moveset. I'll try it a bit later.

"Absurd reasoning" "madness" "arbitrary standard" "moving the goal post"
All I mentioned is the fact that Falco is The Lancer and thus acts as Fox primary Foil.
He's the Edgeworth to Fox's Wright or the Sasuke to Fox's Naruto.

I know, she never appeared in a Nintendo console after all.

Rip Phoenix Wright's chances.

I think Phoenix Wright is also a graphic adventure... I think it sort of counts

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

So I see we're talking a lot about characters, but we don't usually get into the movesets. I'd like to take a shot at Inklings.

I'm fairly certain they're going to be a Stage Control character, using either a neutral A or Neutral B attack to shoot ink around the stage. If an opponent gets caught in the ink, they'll be slowed down and unable to escape necessarily. The Inklings, whose abilities allow them to traverse the ink, will be able to swim in it, and start or continue a combo through this.

Other moves will include the Ink grenades as a Side B or Neutral B, the Mega Jump as the Up B. I'm thinking it might be an interesting idea if the Down B is a transformation into the squid form that would allow you to either reload the ink you've used, and swim in the Ink around the stage.

Another interesting idea I was thinking about. In Splatoon, if you shoot your opponent enough, they are KO'd. What if, in Smash, when you cover an opponent, you gradually slow them down? If you completely cover them, it causes knockback. That knockback could be used to continue a combo or create space between the players.

For the final smash, I think you could see the rocket from Splatoon 1, the Ground Pound from Splatoon 2, the Rainmaker, or something else I'm not thinking of.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to the Inklings moveset. There's no way it doesn't involve spreading Ink around as much as possible and controlling where your opponent goes.

I like the idea that covering them enough causes knockback, but I think the idea of a slowing ability being one of their primary functions would make them too powerful in competitive play. It'd be pretty easy to kite your opponents if you're constantly faster than them by slowing them and inevitably pushing them away. Yeah, there are characters who are intrinsically faster than others, but their individual speed does not effect the ability of their opponent. Imagine getting slowed down as Ganon from an easy to land projectile. You'd never touch your opponent. I think the splattershot could be like a short range Fox laser but after landing so many shots it launches them and cleans off the ink.

 

[Danpal65]

Rip Phoenix Wright's chances.

See this is where it gets a bit tricky. Some visual novels are more novel-y, whereas Phoenix Wright has gameplay to it and I would be okay with that. This would almost have to be looked at on a case by case basis. Something like the Steins;Gate visual novel would be something that I would say is not what should be considered as source material for example.

 

[N3ON]

That sounds awful

I cant imagine the smash fanbase stuck only being able to analyze a single character for that long.
oh wait Ridley was analyzed for the entirety of Smash For's length

Ridley has been analyzed, with short breaks in between games, ever since he broke through that wall in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think there's any doubt that Sakurai's roster choices last game was selfish in comparison to the first three, especially when considering six Fire Emblem characters yet no DK newcomers. But has Sakurai earned the right to be selfish with adding contents?

I'd say yes. He has added everyone that he needed to in order to get the game selling to as wide of an audience as possible, which to be honest should be less than thirty characters. Now that they're all in, he can add what he wants with no consequences whatsoever since everyone who wants to play the next Smash will get it anyway. He could add Schroeder from Peanuts, a secondary character from one of least violent non-video game series possible (yes I want him in Smash, sue me):

and still not only have no negative impact on sales, but Sakurai would be able to rationalize the inclusion to where the vast majority of fan base will defend it as a great inclusion. Because as the entire franchise's history has demonstrated, we'll eat up anything that isn't a clone so we may as well accept that getting angry is worthless.

Anyone who thinks getting angry at roster choices otherwise should back it up by not buying the game and getting a mass boycott when their favorite characters don't make the cut. But what are the chances of that happening?

Maybe because 25 years haven't passed since his defeat in Uprising...

Sorry, but I just had to say that.

Here is a life lesson everyone should learn, never give disclaimers if you're trying to be funny, write a good story, etc. It makes you look a lot better as bringing in the expectation that your works are good makes you look more professional.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He's one of the 4 members of Star Fox? Even then, he's basically second in command.

The equivalent of the sidekick. The Luigi. The Tails.


Yeah. But all four of them are main characters.

Fox, Falco, Slippy, Peppy, and Krystal (for the game's she's in) are all main characters.

I'm not going to get into a spat about who's inherently more important. That's not what I'm saying.

It's just that main characters get in Smash most of the time.

You're all over the place with you're arbitrary determinations of who the main characters are.

I'm trying to put this in order of you contradicting yourself. Because you say Toad's not a main character when he's one of the four protagonists, but then you say the four Star Fox characters are the main characters because they are the four protagonists, then you said Falco is more important than Andross for that reason, but Dixie's not more important than King K. Rool, but Slippy is more important than Andross, but still Wolf is a playable character in Brawl...?!

Do you see how skull poundingly obnoxious this argument is? This is the worst argument I've ever had to be in on this website.

Please forgive me for never touching this again with a fifty foot pole.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I know, she never appeared in a Nintendo console after all.

Oh, trust me, that isn't my concern. I just want all the characters to be allowed to stay even if I don't play with her...

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Oh sorry CHP, I need a better place to talk a detail about the moveset. I'll try it a bit later.



I think Phoenix Wright is also a graphic adventure... I think it sort of counts

Oh, no, I didn't mean from you specifically, I just meant in general. The fact you replied was enough for me

 

[Deleted member]

If you make an Artoria thread I demand one of the alts be her in a suit

What's up with your suit fetish? I like it.

stay

Oh hey a clue!

 

[papagenos]

For Brawl, all we got from E3 2006 to post E3 2007 was Fox.

This is why I'm very thankful we got "2018" in the trailer, I can't go through months of droughts again.

Either we get floods of info after E3 up until release or they actually manage to keep the game under wraps and its just a few months of waiting until right around the release which would be super hype to actually be able to just stay offline for a day or so before release and unlock a bunch of surprising newcomers, very rarely does that happen anymore with any games.

 

[Starcutter]

you guys probably don't care about gameplay things in this discussion.

I kinda want Zelda/Shiek to be combined again, but ONLY IF the transformation is really quick and has a good hitbox for combos.

 

[Danpal65]

This is why I'm very thankful we got "2018" in the trailer, I can't go through months of droughts again.

Either we get floods of info after E3 up until release or they actually manage to keep the game under wraps and its just a few months of waiting until right around the release which would be super hype to actually be able to just stay offline for a day or so before release and unlock a bunch of surprising newcomers, very rarely does that happen anymore with any games.

One of the good things about this new Nintendo approach they have with the Switch. A game is announced and released pretty quickly in comparison to the 3-4 years that can go between announcement and release for games on Xbox and PS4.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You're all over the place with you're arbitrary determinations of who the main characters are.

I'm trying to put this in order of you contradicting yourself. Because you say Toad's not a main character when he's one of the four protagonists, but then you say the four Star Fox characters are the main characters because they are the four protagonists, then you said Falco is more important than Andross for that reason, but Dixie's not more important than King K. Rool, but Slippy is more important than Andross, but still Wolf is a playable character in Brawl...?!

Do you see how skull poundingly obnoxious this argument is? This is the worst argument I've ever had to be in on this website.

Please forgive me for never touching this again with a fifty foot pole.

I think you misunderstood my points and putting words in my mouth but oh well.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I guess I've sort of asked similar questions before, mainly about Zelda newcomers in general, but this time it's someone specific.

What do some of you think about Tetra's chances? Mainly asking to hear some different viewpoints and opinions. I've always thought she's only had small chances myself, but I remain a fairly avid supporter of her.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ink might be better at giving Inkling pro's rather than opponent's cons.

Down B is a squid mode that can swim fast in ink, even up walls. Squid Mode gets a different jump and dash attack and quick pivot turns. Down B in the air caused an Inkling to turn into a squid and dive headfirst straight down. Squid will flop back into an Inkling if not in ink.

Cons to an opponent might have to be slight. Very little changes to speed and perhaps slowing down rolls and sidesteps.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think you misunderstood my points and putting words in my mouth but oh well.

I don't think you understand your own points.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think you understand your own points.

I thought you weren't touching this again.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I guess I've sort of asked similar questions before, mainly about Zelda newcomers in general, but this time it's someone specific.

What do some of you think about Tetra's chances? Mainly asking to hear some different viewpoints and opinions. I've always thought she's only had small chances myself, but I remain a fairly avid supporter of her.

I feel that she's too far in the past at this point when considering potential other Zelda characters, which is unfortunate because I really like Tetra. My favorite character to play in Hyrule Warriors and pirates are cool.

 

[Danpal65]

you guys probably don't care about gameplay things in this discussion.

I kinda want Zelda/Shiek to be combined again, but ONLY IF the transformation is really quick and has a good hitbox for combos.

See I kinda want to opposite. Transformations were cool, but in Melee pretty much everyone played Sheik and left Zelda behind. Once they became two seperate characters they had a bit more freedom for each half to be more unique, same with what happened with Charizard once he was released. (I also kinda want to have BotW Zelda as a character as her design is top tier )

 

[TheLastJinjo]

you guys probably don't care about gameplay things in this discussion.

I kinda want Zelda/Shiek to be combined again, but ONLY IF the transformation is really quick and has a good hitbox for combos.

The only one of those characters I want back is Pokemon Trainer.

 

[A Distant Demon]

What's up with your suit fetish? I like it.

Hey man, I know what I like.

And I like the look of people in suits.

Spoiler

Kreygasm

 

[Hinata]

Inklings vs. Inklings becomes an insane matchup because if you shoot an opponent Inkling enough they explode and immediately lose a stock.

 

[N3ON]

This is why I'm very thankful we got "2018" in the trailer, I can't go through months of droughts again.

Either we get floods of info after E3 up until release or they actually manage to keep the game under wraps and its just a few months of waiting until right around the release which would be super hype to actually be able to just stay offline for a day or so before release and unlock a bunch of surprising newcomers, very rarely does that happen anymore with any games.

If we hadn't gotten 2018 in the trailer, trying to argue that this game would still be coming out this year would be, ugh, it'd be miserable.

But yeah, only waiting a short few months is delightful after all those droughts from waiting twice previous.

And fwiw I'm expecting nothing until E3, then I'm expecting quite a lot until release, which I will continue to maintain is September until I am proven wrong.

 

[Starcutter]

See I kinda want to opposite. Transformations were cool, but in Melee pretty much everyone played Sheik and left Zelda behind. Once they became two seperate characters they had a bit more freedom for each half to be more unique, same with what happened with Charizard once he was released. (I also kinda want to have BotW Zelda as a character as her design is top tier )

but you see, if they were combined AND the transformation move had a really good hitbox for combos, you would see the normally unviable Zelda in competitive play, very often.