Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[geoluminescent]

I've always liked the idea of squidform as a unique crouch/accessed by certain aerials, rather than a special move. That leaves more room for bombs. I like bombs.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly, as a main of a transformation character in a past game.

I hope they stay separated.

It's a cool concept but doesn't work at all gameplay wise.

 

[N3ON]

I've always liked the idea of squidform as a unique crouch/accessed by certain aerials, rather than a special move. That leaves more room for bombs. I like bombs.

There's something wonderful about a sassy festive Karl Marx expressing his affinity for bombs.

 

[Starcutter]

I've always liked the idea of squidform as a unique crouch/accessed by certain aerials, rather than a special move. That leaves more room for bombs. I like bombs.

I also want inkling's crouch to be squid form. That way they would have a really low crouch hitbox, as well as a fast crawl. I think it would be unique for gameplay.

 

[AadmM]

Inklings vs. Inklings becomes an insane matchup because if you shoot an opponent Inkling enough they explode and immediately lose a stock.

This actually brings up a good point about ink in this game--will Inklings of other colors be able to ink over your own, slowing you down, just like in Splatoon?

Surely they will...I dunno, somehow I'm just a little skeptical about them really making it work true to form. I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Hinata]

This is why I'm very thankful we got "2018" in the trailer, I can't go through months of droughts again.

Either we get floods of info after E3 up until release or they actually manage to keep the game under wraps and its just a few months of waiting until right around the release which would be super hype to actually be able to just stay offline for a day or so before release and unlock a bunch of surprising newcomers, very rarely does that happen anymore with any games.

They're gonna have to hit with a ton of info soon enough. Smash 4 had a year or two to spread out its reveals, Smash Switch doesn't have that luxury.

I don't think they'd hide a lot of the game until release, that'd be marketing suicide. Keeping a few characters under wraps would be expected, but they can't keep too much from us.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

In my opinion, Inkling's crouch/crawl should be squid form. The Inkling uses ink for all ink weapon moves, and they leave ink on the battlefield that disappears after 10 seconds or so. Ink slowly regenerates over time (and I mean slowly) so you can't be completely without Ink til you die, but you regenerate ink much faster if you crouch into an ink pool, so its important to rapidly switch to Squid form, just like in Splatoon. I think turning into a squid should be very low-commitment, just like it is in Splatoon, because it's a necessary function to play the character.

I think this idea makes using both squid and kid form easy, and punishes for not regenerating ink, just like it does in Splatoon itself, without having to cost you a stock. It also leave the down+b open for another ink-based attack, which I think they should try to fit as many of in as possible considering the huge armory the squids have amassed.

 

[Hinata]

This actually brings up a good point about ink in this game--will Inklings of other colors be able to ink over your own, slowing you down, just like in Splatoon?

Surely they will...I dunno, somehow I'm just a little skeptical about them really making it work true to form. I'd love to be wrong.

I'd imagine so. The ink will probably slow down everyone but you, so enemy Inklings would probably be able to slow you down by shooting their own ink over yours.

I look forward to seeing an Inkling swimming through ink to get a quick smash attack kill only to be stopped dead in their tracks by another Inkling shooting over their path.

 

[Danpal65]

but you see, if they were combined AND the transformation move had a really good hitbox for combos, you would see the normally unviable Zelda in competitive play, very often.

Touché. If that were the case then I hope we get to see some sort of BotW Sheik design, heck one for Ganondorf would be pretty sick. I just think the art style is really unique and colourful, rather Ghibli-esque.

 

[geoluminescent]

There's something wonderful about a sassy festive Karl Marx expressing his affinity for bombs.

I'm glad to meet someone with good taste.

 

[Starcutter]

will Mario's FLUUD clean the ink?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

In my opinion, Inkling's crouch/crawl should be squid form. The Inkling uses ink for all ink weapon moves, and they leave ink on the battlefield that disappears after 10 seconds or so. Ink slowly regenerates over time (and I mean slowly) so you can't be completely without Ink til you die, but you regenerate ink much faster if you crouch into an ink pool, so its important to rapidly switch to Squid form, just like in Splatoon. I think turning into a squid should be very low-commitment, just like it is in Splatoon, because it's a necessary function to play the character.

I think this idea makes using both squid and kid form easy, and punishes for not regenerating ink, just like it does in Splatoon itself, without having to cost you a stock. It also leave the down+b open for another ink-based attack, which I think they should try to fit as many of in as possible considering the huge armory the squids have amassed.

My only issue with this is that the movement would be tricky. What worries me with it, is that if I crouch into Squid Form, and then try to jump into another puddle of ink (think platforms on Battlefield) that, to me, makes it a little messy in regard to a form change.

Personally I think it makes more sense as a Down B based on the utility of it all. But I am at least enjoying the discussion of possibilities!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

will Mario's FLUUD clean the ink?

Sunshine 2 is writing itself.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Touché. If that were the case then I hope we get to see some sort of BotW Sheik design, heck one for Ganondorf would be pretty sick. I just think the art style is really unique and colourful, rather Ghibli-esque.

Sheik would be way more interesting when you know it's the fragile botw version of Zelda under there.

 

[FlexTapeF0rever]

Characters who got I think may have a shot of making it in
Paper Mario, Captain Toad, Waluigi, Ashley, King K. Rool, Another Kong (Dixie, Lanky, or Funky), Any of the Champions from BoTW, Ridley(this would be a Big surprise), Since MP4 is coming out we could get Sylux instead of Ridley, Waddle Dee, Decidueye/Lycanroc/ a Gen 8 mon, Kumatora or Masked Man(people may complain that his inclusion is a huge Mother 3 spoiler), Samurai Goroh/Pico/Black Shadow, Wolf Coming Back, Krystal, Hades, Hector/Lyn/Celica or the FE Switch character that probably will get in, Rex and or Pyra, Isabelle, The Chorus Kids, A Arms character( Min-Min maybe?), Get some GBA representation with Issac and Andy, Chibo-Robo(who still is on fire someone should probably help him), Layton or Jibanyan as the Level-5 rep, The return of the Ice Climbers, Ryu Hayabusa, Simon Belmont, The return of Snake, Megaman(possibly now in his X form), Phoenix Wright, Travis Touchdown, Banjo-Kazooie, Bomberman, Crash Bandicoot, Sans, Rayman...
and who I think may have a 99% chance of appearing and shocking everyone... Geno.
Out of all of those I think The Ice Clmibers and Geno have the best shot of making it in.

 

[geoluminescent]

My only issue with this is that the movement would be tricky. What worries me with it, is that if I crouch into Squid Form, and then try to jump into another puddle of ink (think platforms on Battlefield) that, to me, makes it a little messy in regard to a form change.

Personally I think it makes more sense as a Down B based on the utility of it all. But I am at least enjoying the discussion of possibilities!

This seems simple to me; just make it possible to jump while maintaining a crouch. i.e., you're swimming along in squidform, press x/y/some equivalent, and you'll jump up still in squidform. If you want to change into a squid in mid-air, have nair be some kinda squid-spin, or dair be a squid dive, or both.

 

[Danpal65]

Sheik would be way more interesting when you know it's the fragile botw version of Zelda under there.

I don't think she's fragile, I mean she has a huge amount of responsibility put on her and she does travel across Hyrule's crazy landscape and you can not discount the fact that she held back Ganon, the embodiment of evil for 100 years. That is pretty strong in my opinion.

 

[Starcutter]

How do you guys feel about Banjo?

I'd say he's the likeliest he's ever been since Melee

 

[Chron]

Check my Signature all of you(are there any of you?) Felicia supporters out there!
Also I'm gonna start calling her FElicia(F.E.-Fire Emblem) to possibly help remove confusion(or maybe confuse more people ).

 

[Pakky]

Rayman and Crash seem pretty solid to me.

Donkey Kong in general needs way more stuff.

I've matured when it comes to FE they don't bother me let them have their six they just need more variety. A whole franchise represented by one weapon type is rather boring.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

My only issue with this is that the movement would be tricky. What worries me with it, is that if I crouch into Squid Form, and then try to jump into another puddle of ink (think platforms on Battlefield) that, to me, makes it a little messy in regard to a form change.

Personally I think it makes more sense as a Down B based on the utility of it all. But I am at least enjoying the discussion of possibilities!

I guess I feel switching should be as easy as it is in Splatoon, and should be a basic movement tool rather than an special move. Down+B could be based entirely on reloading though, as Olimar's neutral B is based entirely on pulling pikmin. Squid could create a pool of ink at it's feet and dive in to rapidly reload, regardless of how much ink is in their tank. I just think Ink management should be a very important part of the moveset, as it is in Splatoon, and having a dedicated reload move sort of takes away from that.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

yo 2B would be sick af, too bad it'll never happen ever

 

[Pakky]

yo 2B would be sick af, too bad it'll never happen ever

Never say never.

 

[Hinata]

I guess I feel switching should be as easy as it is in Splatoon, and should be a basic movement tool rather than an special move.

I mean, if you wanna get technical, having squid form be delegated to some kind of button press would be pretty canon to how it is in Splatoon. I don't think it'd take that much effort to hold the control stick down and press B.

Maybe have it so you press Down-B to go into squid form, and you hold B for as long as you want to stay in squid form.

 

[Deleted member]

*piano intro*
At first I wasn't sure, I was skeptical.
Kept thinking Isabelle would never work as playable.
But then you came into my life and I browsed your dialogue
All was defogged,
And I learned to support the dogs!

And now I'm back,
From other threads
Where I've completed liking every post that was ever read.
I should've known it's dangerous, I should've known one would not compel,
A single rep could not suffice, AC needs its Isabelle!

Hey hey!


And now back to work.

I admire your Shakespeare writing of me.
Isabelle would actually be a pretty good choice in my opinion, she has a lot of move-set potential. Also Isabelle does not have to be a Villager clone. Isabelle can use moves that she does off her game, like throw dangerous apples at people. Diddy Kong throws peanuts so this move is fine.

You're telling this to a community who speculated that the font color to the words "SMASH FINAL VIDEO PRESENTATION" was a hint as to who would be included as Smash 4 DLC.

Wait, that actually happened? The Smash community is too quick to judge and make assumptions sometimes, but that is natural of people. We are a very observing community.

Monika is NOT allowed in Smash.

Why not? She may not be my number one choice, but she would be a pretty interesting fighter. She has a lot of move-set potential, but she is very unlikely.

Hey man, I know what I like.

And I like the look of people in suits.

Spoiler

Kreygasm

Heck, Luigi looks better in a suit than Mario does.
#LuigiSuitAltPlease

Yours, on the other hand...

Woah, you getting spicy again? I like it when you get spicy.

 

[FlexTapeF0rever]

Never say never.

Bayonetter

 

[geoluminescent]

Oh yeah, anybody else kinda want Gooey playable? Bandana Dee is more obvious and probable, and I also want him, honestly, but... Gooey's kinda got a charm to him, too, you know?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I mean, if you wanna get technical, having squid form be delegated to some kind of button press would be pretty canon to how it is in Splatoon. I don't think it'd take that much effort to hold the control stick down and press B.

Maybe have it so you press Down-B to go into squid form, and you hold B for as long as you want to stay in squid form.

But then you'd have to release squid form to jump, which creates another issue. Maybe down+b turns you into a squid and any action other than moving turns you into a kid doing that attack. I'm certainly open to suggestions, I would just like to see them utilize as much of the squid's arsenal as possible.

EDIT: Actually I like this approach. It would make transition between squid and kid smooth. Hitting down+b again to change back and THEN doing an action sounds clunky, but i think Squid being cancellable by any action could feel pretty seamless and allow for the smooth movement Splatoon actually has.
Scoliosis, if this is exactly what you were trying to suggest initially, I apologize for making this harder than it needed to be lmao

 

[Chron]

Why not? She may not be my number one choice, but she would be a pretty interesting fighter. She has a lot of move-set potential, but she is very unlikely.

Oh yeah! Monika is my new #2! (under FElicia of course)

 

[SmashChu]

I don't think there's any doubt that Sakurai's roster choices last game was selfish in comparison to the first three, especially when considering six Fire Emblem characters yet no DK newcomers. But has Sakurai earned the right to be selfish with adding contents?

I'd say yes. He has added everyone that he needed to in order to get the game selling to as wide of an audience as possible, which to be honest should be less than thirty characters. Now that they're all in, he can add what he wants with no consequences whatsoever since everyone who wants to play the next Smash will get it anyway. He could add Schroeder from Peanuts, a secondary character from one of least violent non-video game series possible (yes I want him in Smash, sue me):

View attachment 138541

and still not only have no negative impact on sales, but Sakurai would be able to rationalize the inclusion to where the vast majority of fan base will defend it as a great inclusion. Because as the entire franchise's history has demonstrated, we'll eat up anything that isn't a clone so we may as well accept that getting angry is worthless.

Anyone who thinks getting angry at roster choices otherwise should back it up by not buying the game and getting a mass boycott when their favorite characters don't make the cut. But what are the chances of that happening?Here is a life lesson everyone should learn, never give disclaimers if you're trying to be funny, write a good story, etc. It makes you look a lot better as bringing in the expectation that your works are good makes you look more professional.

That's not entirely true. Sales of Smash 4 were worse than Brawl. The only way you can say it did better is to combine sales of both games which will result in double counting. Smash 3DS sold about 9 million where Brawl sold 13 million. While some will immediately blame the install base, Melee sold about 7 million on a far smaller install base. Additionally, other games still performed well on the 3DS, like Animal Crossing New Leaf, which sold about the same as Wild World did on the DS. So when you look at sales, you can't say there can be no repercussions. Moreover, any series can fail. Any series can stagnate. We've seen it happen enough.

That said, I don't think the issues with Smash 4's roster can't be ignored. You correctly identified Sakurai adding characters he wants. Fire Emblem is the obvious, but even Ryu was added for Sakurai, not for you. These will have to be addressed. But the issue isn't "I want this character so I'm upset." It's more a matter of focus. Take Fire Emblem. It's not a big series and the most successful game has only sold 2.5 million. But it got 6 characters, and two of the DLC characters. Now, compare that to DK, a series which has a long history of successes and a lot of characters. Why do those characters get snuffed and Fire Emblem gets a ton. The same could be said for the guest characters, which are being added so Sakurai can work on other games, including Ryu (which he mentioned as a character he gets to work on because of Smash). If you see Smash as a celebration of Nintendo, you get pushed to the side so Sakurai can make his fan game. And as the pool of the most wanted guest characters shrinks, who will get in? It will be who Sakurai wants, not the fans.

All that said, I think Iwata let Sakurai do whatever he wants where Kimishima won't. Nintendo has other business interest in Smash which may interfere with what Sakurai wants to do. This may explain his comments. At the end of Smash 4, he mentioned how he would love to keep developing Smash because it lets him work on characters like Ryu (he specifically mentioned him). Recently, Sakurai said, "Well, maybe I could be a consultant." Why the change? I think Nintendo may not want him to play around as much. Now he's thinking of handing it off. That's a decent change from about a year and a half. We can surmise there was a change and, perhaps, work isnt as fun for him.

 

[mario123007]

Yup

So... Making a short reply also count as a warning .... Got it...

Anyways, check out this Smash Bros Switch theme mock up, which really sounds like what it could be in the game.

 

[Chron]

Take Fire Emblem. It's not a big series and the most successful game has only sold 2.5 million. But it got 6 characters, and two of the DLC characters.

Aww Yeah! The FElicia cult has a chance!
Seriously though, do you guys see the same, or less(or MORE!) Fire Emblem characters being in Smash Switch?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

will Mario's FLUUD clean the ink?

Top 10 Questions Scientists Still Can't Answer

 

[papagenos]

How do you guys feel about Banjo?

I'd say he's the likeliest he's ever been since Melee

Yeah I don't expect him BUT they need some super hype 3rd party character for people to go nuts over and Im fairly certain he did well on the smash ballot and phil spencer said he'd be cool with it. Banjo Kazooie is one of my top choices right there with Geno and Little Mac for my all time most wanted characters and I'd say right now is the best shot he's ever had.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Aww Yeah! The FElicia cult has a chance!
Seriously though, do you guys see the same, or less(or MORE!) Fire Emblem characters being in Smash Switch?

I expect 1 more, but certainly not less than there currently is.

 

[Danpal65]

Yeah I don't expect him BUT they need some super hype 3rd party character for people to go nuts over and Im fairly certain he did well on the smash ballot and phil spencer said he'd be cool with it. Banjo Kazooie is one of my top choices right there with Geno and Little Mac for my all time most wanted characters and I'd say right now is the best shot he's ever had.

I could see Bomberman or Shovel Knight possibly doing this. Shovel Knight is the poster child for indie games and they have become a huge part of what Nintendo is now.

 

[N3ON]

Lord knows I dislike the abundance of FE characters in Smash, but Sakurai initially intended on only three, then expanded one out of an alt, added another because they were a fan-favourite, and had trepidations about the last until others "convinced" him to do it. All of this can be found on SourceGaming.

So this talk of selfishness, imo, begins and ends mostly with the above average quantity of Uprising content.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The purple muppet is Crash.

This is far too fitting.

Lord knows I dislike the abundance of FE characters in Smash, but Sakurai initially intended on only three, then expanded one out of an alt, added another because they were a fan-favourite, and had trepidations about the last until others "convinced" him to do it. All of this can be found on SourceGaming.

Taking the time to make Lucina an when we could have had Alph as an alt instead, but it was not.
Adding Roy instead of Pichu (you can say Roy would sell better, but Pichu is still Pokemon, which is arguably the most simple to market).
And still... he did choose Corrin, instead of another character.

They were all choices he made, and like it or not, it was his responsiblity.

The logo being on fire could, in that mindset, also lead us to conclude we're getting at least 16 Marth Clones because "Fire Emblem".

Not at all the same thing. The Chibi Robo photo was
1- the trolling response of Nintendo posted on a day when fans were expecting news. It is quite in their character to leave hints that we don't know are hints in the moment.
2- Fire seems to be a major part of the marketing mechanic of this Smash. Symbolism and foreshadowing, being literary elements, are a bit different than just having the single word in common with the image.

That said- we probably *will* have 16 Marth clones, so bite your tongue!

 

[FlexTapeF0rever]

Aww Yeah! The FElicia cult has a chance!
Seriously though, do you guys see the same, or less(or MORE!) Fire Emblem characters being in Smash Switch?

Mart, Ike, Robin, and Roy stay
Lucina gets cut, Corrin gets cut
They then add a character/characters from the new swiitch game
or make everyone happy and add Hector or Lyn which would replace Roy as the FE GBA rep

 

[Ghirahilda]

So... Making a short reply also count as a warning .... Got it...

Anyways, check out this Smash Bros Switch theme mock up, which really sounds like what it could be in the game.

This is stunning!