Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Aurane]

If we don't get The Dragonborn as a newcomer, I'm gonna piss my pants and ingest skooma. >:'(

 

[Opossum]

I just really hope Divine Decree (Ablaze) is in the game this time. It's baffling that it's the best song in Awakening and yet it didn't make it into Smash 4.

 

[Will]

I won't excuse Verg for using autism as an insult but he was receiving this harassment way before that and it's in no way justifiable. People are literally only giving him **** for leaking "stuff that is not what they want".

Hey maybe this Vergeben guy ain't so bad after al-
steve is in yo
WHAT NOOOOOOOOOO THIS ISN'T BANJO KAZOOIE

 

[Noipoi]

I'm just saying, Music Theory, while interesting, isn't the concrete explanation for the inclusion of any character.

And before anyone brings it up, no I do not subscribe to box theory. I think it's interesting, but I don't think it's a concrete hint on what to expect from the roster.

These are all just theories. if you subscribe to them fine, but don't try to shut down others speculation because it goes against your theory.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

deep breath

I will agree that, while I personally am not offended because I could see where he was coming from, Verg could have chosen his words more carefully.

BUT! Even then, when you’re pushed to the brink of anger and frustration by vindictive pricks, you sometimes just...see red. Lose all judgment. It’s human nature.

And it does not justify harassment. Ever.

That’s all I’ll say on this issue. Anyway, good night...

 

[Deleted member]

I could see the Banjo fanbase not taking it well, honestly. Maybe Geno if the prophesied Square Enix character isn't him.

Obviously there's bound to be some whining regardless of who gets "snubbed," but like all Smash rosters, I don't think there'll be a big enough support base feeling snubbed enough to get more attention than even Waluigi at E3, never mind something to the scale of the post-Ballot fallout.

The vibe I get from the Banjo thread and supporters in general is sort of a "optimistic but not expectant" one, and I myself would quietly accept it and hope for DLC.

I could see Bandana Dee not being in as a sticking point amongst his fans, though.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Hey maybe this Vergeben guy ain't so bad after al-
steve is in yo
WHAT NOOOOOOOOOO THIS ISN'T BANJO KAZOOIE
View attachment 166691

People are being stupid.
He is only leaking what he has (or making it up)

And in the end, it does not matter.

I welcome out Steve, Inciniroar, Ken, who ever overlords. More characters the better, but we already have Ridley, K Rool and others. We really do not deserve more.

 

[Noipoi]

deep breath

I will agree that, while I personally am not offended because I could see where he was coming from, Verg could have chosen his words more carefully.

BUT! Even then, when you’re pushed to the brink of anger and frustration by vindictive pricks, you sometimes just...see red. Lose all judgment. It’s human nature.

And it does not justify harassment. Ever.

That’s all I’ll say on this issue. Anyway, good night...

Goodnight.
Sleep tight.
Don't let the Bayo bite.

Or do let her, if you're into that.

 

[Opossum]

The vibe I get from the Banjo thread and supporters in general is sort of a "optimistic but not expectant" one, and I myself would quietly accept it and hope for DLC.

I could see Bandana Dee not being in as a sticking point amongst his fans, though.

Oh my god I totally forgot about Dee.

Yeah, that'll probably be the big one.

 

[praline]

Unless a direct shows otherwise I only expect Ken and Incineroar. That way if they’re it I won’t be disappointed and if there’s more then that ****s hype yo.

 

[SigmaMewtwo]

I am curious who is even left for people to have a nuclear meltdown about not making the base roster? There are no characters left as big as the likes of Mega Man, Ridley, and K. Rool, and there are no cuts for people to be outraged by. Why be upset over this roster if Incineroar and Ken are all that is left? Its not even the end anyway. All DLC characters are going to be newcomers this time too.

Personally, this is the best roster I've seen in Smash; there's a character here and there that I'd like (Dixie probably among the highest of my realistic choices), but overall, I couldn't be more pleased since E3 where every veteran, plus Ridley was announced. Everything else since then has been icing on the cake for me.

Considering just how much Sakurai has given us with this game, I just can't fathom the amount of anger people are expressing now, since most big requests have now been fulfilled. As you said, even if the characters people want don't make it in base, there's always the possibility of DLC to try and please as many people as possible. We can always place our hopes there if (for some reason) you can't find at least a few favorites out of a 70+ character roster (which again, is very ambitious among fighting games, almost unheard of).

I've said it before (maybe not here), but Sakurai truly spoils us with all that he gives us. We truly don't deserve him if we're going to repay the favor by being like this, going as all out with Ultimate as he is. I've been a lifelong Smasher since the beginning, but this kind of behavior is honestly appalling.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I just needed to let that out. I truly hope that by the time Ultimate releases, a lot of this unnecessary hostility and anger that these people are releasing will subside, it's honestly heartbreaking and depressing to me as a Smash fan.

 

[Noipoi]

Oh my god I totally forgot about Dee.

Yeah, that'll probably be the big one.

Dee was huge in the beginning of Ultimate speculation, and even though i'm sure his fans still exist talk about him has slowly diminished over time.
I think it's because we know what to expect from this game a little more.

And leaks. Mostly leaks.

 

[ChronoBound]

I could see the Banjo fanbase not taking it well, honestly. Maybe Geno if the prophesied Square Enix character isn't him.

Obviously there's bound to be some whining regardless of who gets "snubbed," but like all Smash rosters, I don't think there'll be a big enough support base feeling snubbed enough to get more attention than even Waluigi at E3, never mind something to the scale of the post-Ballot fallout.

Banjo always seemed like a DLC character to me and many other Banjo fans. Geno is likely going to be DLC too (likely that Square-Enix character Vergeben talked about). Even then, Geno is nowhere near as big as the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, and Mega Man.

Waluigi fans melting down over social media was very weird. It was likely due to the fact that their eternal rival Daisy made it in and not him, which set off every single trigger in their bodies and gave them 'Nam flashbacks of Mario Kart 7's final roster.

So again, I do not see any reason for there to be rage about this roster when Sakurai has added in the characters who had the biggest long running fanbases.

 

[Opossum]

Dee was huge in the beginning of Ultimate speculation, and even though i'm sure his fans still exist talk about him has slowly diminished over time.
I think it's because we know what to expect from this game a little more.

And leaks. Mostly leaks.

Honestly I think it started to diminish thanks not only to the factors you said, but also that non-Sakurai Kirby content once again seems limited to just Final Smashes. I mean even the music update was for City Trial.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

I don't think I've ever felt so torn about someone having a meltdown. I empathize with Verge's situation, having hundreds of voices belittling you at every turn will destroy your spirit, to get that for simply talking about video games is ridiculous. But he lit that fire under himself through his own behavior. There's a reason people are going after him in this way and not, say, Jon Cartwright, or Nibellion, they aren't acting like massive donkey butts (Pardon the language) over the information they've acquired.

I'm certainly not condoning what's happening to him, but I'm also not surprised in the slightest that he's gotten this kind of feedback.

And... as terrible as it is, I won't deny that a part of me feels vindication over it:

Sakurai states, “I really didn’t want for this thing we’ve been working on for years to be ruined by someone’s petty sense of self-satisfaction” pic.twitter.com/hnaQEEKkXY

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) July 18, 2018

People really underestimate the toll leaks take on game developers. Morale plummets and teamwork stagnates as everyone becomes paranoid of who the culprit was. Exploiting the hard work of people like Sakurai, is, frankly, a really ****ed up thing to do.

 

[Misery Brick]

Unless a direct shows otherwise I only expect Ken and Incineroar. That way if they’re it I won’t be disappointed and if there’s more then that ****s hype yo.

That's the best mentality to have imo, that's why I'm not exactly expecting too many characters.
If there's more than I bargained for, great. If not, then there's always DLC.

I just think people shouldn't force a mentality or theory around like fact.
That's what I've been seeing a lot of, and it just pretty much needs to stop at this point.

 

[Noipoi]

Personally, this is the best roster I've seen in Smash; there's a character here and there that I'd like (Dixie probably among the highest of my realistic choices), but overall, I couldn't be more pleased since E3 where every veteran, plus Ridley was announced. Everything else since then has been icing on the cake for me.

Considering just how much Sakurai has given us with this game, I just can't fathom the amount of anger people are expressing now, since most big requests have now been fulfilled. As you said, even if the characters people want don't make it in base, there's always the possibility of DLC to try and please as many people as possible. We can always place our hopes there if (for some reason) you can't find at least a few favorites out of a 70+ character roster (which again, is very ambitious among fighting games, almost unheard of).

I've said it before (maybe not here), but Sakurai truly spoils us with all that he gives us. We truly don't deserve him if we're going to repay the favor by being like this, going as all out with Ultimate as he is. I've been a lifelong Smasher since the beginning, but this kind of behavior is honestly appalling.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I just needed to let that out. I truly hope that by the time Ultimate releases, a lot of this unnecessary hostility and anger that these people are releasing will subside, it's honestly heartbreaking and depressing to me as a Smash fan.

I totally agree dude, sometimes I get a little sad that the one character I wanted the most ended up as an assist trophy. But then I think about all the stuff Sakurai has given me in this game!

All returning veterans, including characters from previous Smash games I haven't played. A whole slew of new gameplay modes, maybe even an adventure mode or even a new subspace. Characters I love () and characters I didn't know I loved until now ().
And even the possibility of other characters I love joining the fight (Geno, Incineroar).
And that's not even it!

There's really nothing to complain about here.

 

[Ghirahilda]

So...
How many characters left? I'm guessing at least 5 (2 new and 3 echoes, like the last smash direct)

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think I've ever felt so torn about someone having a meltdown. I empathize with Verge's situation, having hundreds of voices belittling you at every turn will destroy your spirit, to get that for simply talking about video games is ridiculous. But he lit that fire under himself through his own behavior. There's a reason people are going after him in this way and not, say, Jon Cartwright, or Nibellion, they aren't acting like massive donkey butts (Pardon the language) over the information they've acquired.

I'm certainly not condoning what's happening to him, but I'm also not surprised in the slightest that he's gotten this kind of feedback.

And... as terrible as it is, I won't deny that a part of me feels vindication over it:

Sakurai states, “I really didn’t want for this thing we’ve been working on for years to be ruined by someone’s petty sense of self-satisfaction” pic.twitter.com/hnaQEEKkXY

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) July 18, 2018

People really underestimate the toll leaks take on game developers. Morale plummets and teamwork stagnates as everyone becomes paranoid of who the culprit was. Exploiting the hard work of people like Sakurai, is, frankly, a really ****ed up thing to do.

Honestly, this is kinda how I feel and I have no sympathy for Verge or any "leaker". It sickens me that people are trying to look for the next thing to leak when that, in of itself, hurts the morale of Sakurai's team over at the studios.

I know this may sound pretty harsh, but as someone who's led projects before, and with how insanely vitriolic Smash Ultimate speculation has become, people who are out to go against someone's EXPLICITLY STATED WISHES fall along the same list of people who are making speculation not as fun as it used to be.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So...
How many characters left? I'm guessing at least 5 (2 new and 3 echoes, like the last smash direct)

I could definitely see them surprising us with #69, #70, and a few echoes. I have the feeling that Sakurai’s still got something up his sleeve, so I can’t wait to see the next major announcement.

I doubt I’ll get my most wanted, but I’m really excited to see this game in December. The roster so far is beyond incredible.

 

[Will]

Wait, people going on the train of it being not just two characters? Did the box theory die and I had no idea?

 

[ReeseBalaski]

SmashFaqs has been gross for a while now tbh. A few users in particular have been harassing Verge for a good couple of months. While I don't really care for leakers in general, and I think using autism as an insult is pretty scummy, it's easy to see where he's coming from.

 

[Noipoi]

Wait, people going on the train of it being not just two characters? Did the box theory die and I had no idea?

You missed the funeral.
We sent you an invite but it must've got lost in the mail...

 

[Ghirahilda]

I'm really agnostic with the box theory, I have sure we will have another Smash Direct and I don't think we will get just TWO characters on another whole Smash Direct

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I don't support Vergeben leaking information.

I also don't support harassment.

2 wrongs don't make a right; I'm pretty sure I learned that in ****ing daycare.

 

[Will]

You missed the funeral.
We sent you an invite but it must've got lost in the mail...

It was about damn time we got over that ****.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

2 wrongs don't make a right

If only that was how I could play Telltale games

 

[Pakky]

So did Vegetable Borth have a bad day or something?

 

[Deleted member]

If only that was how I could play Telltale games

Implying you can play them at all anymore

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If only that was how I could play Telltale games

That’s some sad news.

I only played the Wolf Among Us and Game of Thrones, but both were really fun to play.

Less so that the Wolf sequel is not happening and the GoT version was also a total downer in every way. I get it’s GoT so it won’t be happy, but there are satisfying tragic endings and then shoot the dog stories...

 

[Aurane]

I don't support Vergeben leaking information.

I also don't support harassment.

2 wrongs don't make a right; I'm pretty sure I learned that in ****ing daycare.

This guy just demolished every man, woman and child in this thread. Give him the MVP award.

 

[Pakky]

Okay so did some reading on some of the previous pages.

Verge, blew up at people harassing him about leaks or is that incorrect?

Yes. Because Greninja doesn't shoot anything out of its crotch or have hands thicker than its legs.

Complaining about proportions in Pokemon...

Look at this thing or this

Also, a belt is worn around the waist, he shoots fire from his waist...

In far more interesting news, I played Shadow the Hedgehog for the first time today, and I'm now officially off the Shadow train.

I thought about that this morning on my way to work and nearly vomited at the thought of Black Doom. Like Soinc as weird **** in it right? But Shadow is written by the 'edgiest' Japanse person I've ever seen. Like what is this?

 

[T3Z3R1]

So did Vegetable Borth have a bad day or something?

From looking of it, yes. Also, there was some serious discussion about this over at leak thread of which leads to one mod posting reminder there just to stop said discussion from getting out of the control.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Okay so did some reading on some of the previous pages.

Verge, blew up at people harassing him about leaks or is that incorrect?



Complaining about proportions in Pokemon...

Look at this thing or this

Also, a belt is worn around the waist, he shoots fire from his waist...



I thought about that this morning on my way to work and nearly vomited at the thought of Black Doom. Like Soinc as weird **** in it right? But Shadow is written by the 'edgiest' Japanse person I've ever seen. Like what is this?

If I recall correctly, Shadow’s game was written by the head of Sonic Team, Takashi Izuka (credited as “Scenario Writer”, though at the time Yuji Naka was still in charge). Any Sonic fan knows exactly what that name means nowadays.

 

[Radical Bones]

If I have to put my Adult hat on and think realistically, I do not think Dixie, one of my most wanted newcomers will make it in the game this time around.

If she wasn't revealed with K.Rool, even as an Echo (think Richter), she won't be in the game.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If I have to put my Adult hat on and think realistically, I do not think Dixie, one of my most wanted newcomers will make it in the game this time around.

If she wasn't revealed with K.Rool, even as an Echo (think Richter), she won't be in the game.

Why do people still keep ignoring that Ridley and Dark Samus were revealed separately?

 

[Will]

If I have to put my Adult hat on and think realistically, I do not think Dixie, one of my most wanted newcomers will make it in the game this time around.

If she wasn't revealed with K.Rool, even as an Echo (think Richter), she won't be in the game.

There's always a possibility.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Reminder that box theory is only dead when we get more than Ken and Incineroar on base roster.

Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

Despite that, continue being creative with your speculation in the meantime! Don’t let it limit what you talk about.

The next Direct can’t get here fast enough. Looking forward to the speculation cycle being over for a change tbh.

 

[Plumstar]

If I have to put my Adult hat on and think realistically, I do not think Dixie, one of my most wanted newcomers will make it in the game this time around.

Who knows, maybe she could be revealed similar to how they revealed Dark Samus, if she was an echo fighter that is (if that's what you mean). I still think she's likely to be part of the base roster though.
Edit: 'd

 

[Will]

Reminder that box theory is only dead when we get more than Ken and Incineroar on base roster.

Don’t count your chickens before the hatch.

Box theory isn't alive because of Ken and Incineroar, it's alive because of the number 2.