Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

I find it's really tough this time to gauge who would (I would say should, but I don't really think anybody from Wii U should be cut in the first place) be cut. Pair this with the fact that characters are cut by not being a priority over other characters.

I would love to pick Sakurai's brain when it comes to that. With the characters, are there multiple developers working on characters and then sending them to Sakurai to test? How long does the character development process take?

The one thing I really like about the Pokemon roster is that every single one is a different typing, and they each play differently. You can't play Greninja the same as Mewtwo, or Lucario like Charizard. Each one, in order to succeed, needs to be played to their strengths.

I do really think it's awesome that the types covered so far are Electric, Fairy, Fire, Flying, Psychic, Fighting, Steel, Water, Dark...If Decidueye were added, we'd be getting Grass and Ghost. We'd have the starting trinity of typing, as well as Dark, Psychic, and Ghost. Those last three have always seemed to be tied together for me for whatever reason.
---
On a separate note, I'm going to throw this out there. I'm still not entirely convinced that what we're looking at is, in its entirety, a brand new game. Because of the time frame and sheer amount of content (and effort in the additional content), I am maintaining a wee bit of skepticism.

If you also consider the fact that there isn't a much larger pool of playable options since Wii U was in "speculation mode", there may be good reason to bring much of the content from Wii U over. What I mean by that, is that a large percentage of characters who were big last time are being talked about again, with not much in other contexts being different for them.

I mean really, the only characters who are more largely in the running of being added as opposed to the Wii U days are Inklings (in), Spring Man (probably in, imo), and Rex/Pyra (probably, imo). There the possibility of a character like Decidueye, who I think would be great.

New main games from larger Nintendo series that have come out since Wii U:
Super Mario Odyssey
The Legend of Zelda BOTW (already getting BOTW Link, I don't know that I really see anyone getting added. Not even Impa.)
Metroid: Samus Returns (Literally Samus)
Donkey Kong Country Returns: Tropical Freeze (getting released twice, will be out before new Smash, could get Dixie or Cranky)
Pokemon Sun & Moon (could add Decidueye here)
Kirby: Star Allies (Maybe Bandanna Dee if Sakurai sees him as more than your average ally or enemy)
Star Fox Zero (Basically 64 with a new coat of paint)
Fire Emblem Shadows of Valentia
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

Series that haven't had additional games since Wii U
Animal Crossing
Punch-Out!!
Wii Fit
Pikmin (well, there IS that 3DS game)
Mother
F-Zero
Kid Icarus

Basically, I would wager that we would get characters from the series that have churned out releases in the last few years. I know, I know, people will say, "But old man Jones! Recency/relevancy doesn't matter!" But that's kinda how I'm seeing it right now. I know the development time isn't all that crazy based on the dev times of other Smash games, but something just feels...different.

By the way, by no means do I think it'll ONLY be a port. I think it'll be a port based on characters, but that character models may be updated, stages will be updated, as well as additional materials like trophies. It'll be based on Smash 4's engine, basically giving us a...Smash Bros. 4.5 (5.5?)

I'm sure there will be disagreement, but I don't think there would be a problem if it's effectively a heavily expanded port. It's a new Smash game altogether, just based on the engine of the previous game and retaining most if not all characters. Keep what we have, but just get fewer newcomers than normal.

I definitely see where you're coming from, but I'd add one thing to that.

I don't think Animal Crossing should be discounted so easily, mainly because Isabelle exploded in prominence since Smash 4's release, even without a post-New Leaf full release (and even then there's still Pocket Camp, Happy Home Designer, and...amiibo Festival).

 

[Radical Bones]

Oh if we're talking about Pokemon we want, for me it's Magnezone. Like, it'll never happen but imagine fighting as an electrified UFO. PEW PEW PEW.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You completely glossed over the Animal Crossing phone game, haha

Wait, do you mean since smash 4? because didn't the new leaf expansion, Happy Home Designer AND Amiibo Festival all come out since then as well?

*stares at computer screen
*facepalms

I'm glad we've got some people on this site who are more aware than I. It's not that I didn't know about them, but i've been dealing with a migraine/head pain all day and this is basically a relief for me. It makes little sense for staring at a screen to help, but considering I teach children all day this is a helpful release haha.

Thank you for the correction, you're right. I suppose I would (or should) at least partially retract and clarify for main series entries.

That said, I would love Tom Nook with a final Smash of...Crippling Loans

Opossum check this comment out, I agree with you here. Had a moment!

 

[AadmM]

Isabelle so needs to happen. Especially after reading some of the ideas posted here already about her being the clumsy sort of "fighter". Love it!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Scoliosis Jones I completely agree with what you're saying about this being a semi-port. That is why I, and I believe many others, are convinced there will be no cuts in this game. It would seem wasteful to not use the already polished elements from Smash 4, plus that would prevent cuts, which Sakurai has said he absolutely does everything he can to prevent out of respect to every character's fanbase. I think this game won't necessarily feel like a port, but I think the assets that are being shifted over will be exceptionally numerous.

As a side note, I see people mentioning big titles that have come out recently. Fire Emblem Heroes has been largely looked over as a game when this comes up. That game has been absolutely gigantic for Intelligent Systems. Tons of people not only play it every day, but it has raked in millions of dollars. Anyone think its possible that a new Fire Emblem character added would be from that game, such as Sharena? She could fill that spear gap that people have been clamoring for, and she's from a very popular and well received title.

 

[Chron]

View attachment 138533 View attachment 138534

Anybody talk about this yet? I totally forgot about this Chibi-Robo tweet but the fact it was him on fire and the new smash trailer heavily featured fire... its interesting to say the least.

Pyra means "Flame Colored" or "Red Fire"

 

[Danpal65]

I definitely see where you're coming from, but I'd add one thing to that.

I don't think Animal Crossing should be discounted so easily, mainly because Isabelle exploded in prominence since Smash 4's release, even without a post-New Leaf full release (and even then there's still Pocket Camp, Happy Home Designer, and...amiibo Festival).

I like characters like Isabelle from Animal Crossing, the only problem I have with them is that I find it quite difficult to see how they could actually play/work in Smash. I mean Villager kinda already represents all the main mechanics of their game so there is not too much left that could be added for Isabelle.

 

[T-Hell]

I find it's really tough this time to gauge who would (I would say should, but I don't really think anybody from Wii U should be cut in the first place) be cut. Pair this with the fact that characters are cut by not being a priority over other characters.

I would love to pick Sakurai's brain when it comes to that. With the characters, are there multiple developers working on characters and then sending them to Sakurai to test? How long does the character development process take?

The one thing I really like about the Pokemon roster is that every single one is a different typing, and they each play differently. You can't play Greninja the same as Mewtwo, or Lucario like Charizard. Each one, in order to succeed, needs to be played to their strengths.

I do really think it's awesome that the types covered so far are Electric, Fairy, Fire, Flying, Psychic, Fighting, Steel, Water, Dark...If Decidueye were added, we'd be getting Grass and Ghost. We'd have the starting trinity of typing, as well as Dark, Psychic, and Ghost. Those last three have always seemed to be tied together for me for whatever reason.
---
On a separate note, I'm going to throw this out there. I'm still not entirely convinced that what we're looking at is, in its entirety, a brand new game. Because of the time frame and sheer amount of content (and effort in the additional content), I am maintaining a wee bit of skepticism.

If you also consider the fact that there isn't a much larger pool of playable options since Wii U was in "speculation mode", there may be good reason to bring much of the content from Wii U over. What I mean by that, is that a large percentage of characters who were big last time are being talked about again, with not much in other contexts being different for them.

I mean really, the only characters who are more largely in the running of being added as opposed to the Wii U days are Inklings (in), Spring Man (probably in, imo), and Rex/Pyra (probably, imo). There the possibility of a character like Decidueye, who I think would be great.

New main games from larger Nintendo series that have come out since Wii U:
Super Mario Odyssey
The Legend of Zelda BOTW (already getting BOTW Link, I don't know that I really see anyone getting added. Not even Impa.)
Metroid: Samus Returns (Literally Samus)
Donkey Kong Country Returns: Tropical Freeze (getting released twice, will be out before new Smash, could get Dixie or Cranky)
Pokemon Sun & Moon (could add Decidueye here)
Kirby: Star Allies (Maybe Bandanna Dee if Sakurai sees him as more than your average ally or enemy)
Star Fox Zero (Basically 64 with a new coat of paint)
Fire Emblem Shadows of Valentia
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

Series that haven't had additional games since Wii U
Animal Crossing
Punch-Out!!
Wii Fit
Pikmin (well, there IS that 3DS game)
Mother
F-Zero
Kid Icarus

Basically, I would wager that we would get characters from the series that have churned out releases in the last few years. I know, I know, people will say, "But old man Jones! Recency/relevancy doesn't matter!" But that's kinda how I'm seeing it right now. I know the development time isn't all that crazy based on the dev times of other Smash games, but something just feels...different.

By the way, by no means do I think it'll ONLY be a port. I think it'll be a port based on characters, but that character models may be updated, stages will be updated, as well as additional materials like trophies. It'll be based on Smash 4's engine, basically giving us a...Smash Bros. 4.5 (5.5?)

I'm sure there will be disagreement, but I don't think there would be a problem if it's effectively a heavily expanded port. It's a new Smash game altogether, just based on the engine of the previous game and retaining most if not all characters. Keep what we have, but just get fewer newcomers than normal.

I'm also more and more convinced every day that we are getting a greatly expanded version of Smash 4. Also I saw a tweet from a verified account of someone who may or may not be related to the team, basically saying that we are not getting a simple port, but not a brand new game either. He tagged it as a "sequel".

 

[Chron]

I like characters like Isabelle from Animal Crossing, the only problem I have with them is that I find it quite difficult to see how they could actually play/work in Smash. I mean Villager kinda already represents all the main mechanics of their game so there is not too much left that could be added for Isabelle.

If only there was a funny, clumsy character from a Nintendo game that could fight...

Spoiler

FELICIA

 

[Opossum]

On a side note of things this game should bring to the table, I think the music selection should be vastly improved where most of the additions were medleys or not enough songs where added from a certain series (Lookin at you Midgar) plus there were so many good brawl tracks cut ( Lookin at you WarioWare, No Mona Pizza, No Mike Song, what is this madness?!).

In general, songs with vocals cost more to license, more often than not. That likely played a big part. Like, they were willing to spring for Ashley's Song but not much beyond it for vocal WarioWare tunes.

Same reason why Ai No Uta and (I think?) the Brawl main theme were dropped from Smash 4, and possibly why they futureproofed Lost in Thoughts All Alone by adding an instrumental remix.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If only there was a funny, clumsy character from a Nintendo game that could fight...

Spoiler

FELICIA

Pls Nintendo add best girl. At least as an AT. I don't even play with items and I would be ecstatic to see her in the game.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You know, the mention of these mobile games is actually super interesting.

For Animal Crossing, I don't know that there would be a "new" character in the same context as say one of the original characters from Heroes, but I think the frontrunners for that are Tom Nook and Isabelle.

I still will maintain that Tom Nook with a moveset of smacking people with a huge sack of Bells and having a Final Smash of Crippling Debt/Loans would be the most true to character moveset. (either that, or he'll turn you into a fossil...and then take it off some poor saps hands so they don't catch on )

I didn't really get into FE: H, but that could just be the "Didn't see that coming" character!

 

[Deleted member]

I definitely see where you're coming from, but I'd add one thing to that.

I don't think Animal Crossing should be discounted so easily, mainly because Isabelle exploded in prominence since Smash 4's release, even without a post-New Leaf full release (and even then there's still Pocket Camp, Happy Home Designer, and...amiibo Festival).

At first I was not the biggest fan of Isabelle in Smash and then you came into my life. I accepted Isabelle in Smash recently. I saw when you said that only Villager representing Animal Crossing is "dangerous", Animal Crossing is more than just Villager. Also we need more dogs in Super Smash Brothers.

If only there was a funny, clumsy character from a Nintendo game that could fight...

Spoiler

FELICIA

Felicia from Fire Emblem?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Additionally, I would argue we would see characters from smaller or unrepresented series; I mean, Inkling is proof of that. Given Xenoblade Chronicles X and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I think we'll see more there, I think ARMS stands a decent chance of being recognized, and...I'd LOVE to see something from Rhythm Heaven.

I'm still near sure that's Chorus Kids were planned. Chrom and Chorus Kids were the only characters the Gematsu leak got wrong. Chrom was confirmed to be planned early on, and Chorus Kids' likely gimmick would've forced them to be scrapped alongside Ice Climbers. To top it all off, they appeared as a trophy, which is notable because they were never even mentioned AT ALL in speculation before the Gematsu leak. I don't even know if they were referred to as characters called the "Chorus Kids".

I think they have a good chance if Sakurai still likes the idea. I don't see why he would suddenly dislike it or not want to use it.

 

[Radical Bones]

Just going to put this out there - Animal Crossing is a pretty complex game and Villager's moveset only scratches the surface of what you can do. Nook and Isabelle have plenty of source material to work with.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

You know, the mention of these mobile games is actually super interesting.

I hadn't really considered them until moments ago. But the thought of them makes at least some sense. Advertisement for the mobile market that they've recently decided to dive into. I can speak for FE:H that it has been a well designed game that has received a ton of developer support. It's truly impressive how much IS has invested into it, and the fanbase greatly appreciates it. Sakurai goes to IS to talk about what FE characters would be good, and I wouldn't be shocked to find that they pushed a FEH character.

 

[andimidna]

I just had a conversation with someone that argued Mega Man was gonna be cut

I’m still recovering

 

[AadmM]

I mean, Animal Crossing just needs an actual animal rep on the roster.

Honestly anyone they add has the potential to be hilarious.

 

[pupNapoleon]

"Super Smash Bros. Labo"

Get ready to paper craft up some Gamecube controllers.

I am fully thinking that the robot will be a character.

I mean, Animal Crossing just needs an actual animal rep on the roster.

Honestly anyone they add has the potential to be hilarious.

The animals could be an alt and be fine. I'd love to have 20 more skins and they be some of the beloved animal villagers. They are still villagers.

That said, I've always been ticked that in Animal Crossing, I have to be a human. And a terrifying looking one at that.

 

[Chron]

You know, the mention of these mobile games is actually super interesting.
I didn't really get into FE: H, but that could just be the "Didn't see that coming" character!

Fjorm would be an awesome first spear fighter for the game.
(And there's also a great knife-thrower who would be hands down the best smash addition of all time from a certain FE 3DS game)

 

[T-Hell]

View attachment 138533 View attachment 138534

Anybody talk about this yet? I totally forgot about this Chibi-Robo tweet but the fact it was him on fire and the new smash trailer heavily featured fire... its interesting to say the least.

Don't know where or why that pic came from, but if Chibi-Robo gets added I'd lose my ****. His gamecube game is, without any shadow of a doubt, one of the most especial games I've ever played in my entire life, but I don't think the game sold too well and his recent platforming reboot was a failure if I'm not wrong, but hey, If they manage to re-escale him to a viable size, which they did with Olimar, amazing.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I just had a conversation with someone that argued Mega Man was gonna be cut

I’m still recovering

Yikes. We're here for you.

 

[Danpal65]

I like characters like Isabelle from Animal Crossing, the only problem I have with them is that I find it quite difficult to see how they could actually play/work in Smash. I mean Villager kinda already represents all the main mechanics of their game so there is not too much left that could be added for Isabelle.

I should have made it clear here, but, if Isabelle or Tom Nook can be made into a viable character then I would be 100% behind that.

I just had a conversation with someone that argued Mega Man was gonna be cut

I’m still recovering

Get yourself an E-Tank stat!

 

[pupNapoleon]

Don't know where or why that pic came from, but if Chibi-Robo gets added I'd lose my ****. His gamecube game is, without any shadow of a doubt, one of the most especial games I've ever played in my entire life, but I don't think the game sold too well and his recent platforming reboot was a failure if I'm not wrong, but hey, If they manage to re-escale him to a viable size, which they did with Olimar, amazing.

Good possibility? Well maybe.

Zip Lash was out if Sakurai never took a break. And I mean, Nintendo trolled about updates by posting a Chibi Robo that looked like he was in Smash flame.

 

[GaroMaster]

It feels so weird to think that by the end of this year, Smash 4 will no longer be the newest entry in the Smash series.
We sure have been conditioned to waiting a long time for new stuff, haven't we? I'm just loving the way Nintendo has been doing these quick turnarounds with their game announcements. Complete opposite of the Wii U era.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Don't know where or why that pic came from, but if Chibi-Robo gets added I'd lose my ****. His gamecube game is, without any shadow of a doubt, one of the most especial games I've ever played in my entire life, but I don't think the game sold too well and his recent platforming reboot was a failure if I'm not wrong, but hey, If they manage to re-escale him to a viable size, which they did with Olimar, amazing.

I, too, am in love with Chibi Robo's gamecube game. But after the second Chibi Robo title, the franchise has fallen apart. I would be blown away (in a good way) if he became playable, but I will certainly not keep my hopes up.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I, too, am in love with Chibi Robo's gamecube game. But after the second Chibi Robo title, the franchise has fallen apart. I would be blown away (in a good way) if he became playable, but I will certainly not keep my hopes up.

It would certainly help Nintendo know people will care about him.
Does anyone know how popular Chibi Robo is in Japan, by chance?

 

[Chron]

I, too, am in love with Chibi Robo's gamecube game. But after the second Chibi Robo title, the franchise has fallen apart. I would be blown away (in a good way) if he became playable, but I will certainly not keep my hopes up.

If you haven't played it, Super Smash Flash 2 has Chibi Robo.

 

[Opossum]

You know, the mention of these mobile games is actually super interesting.

For Animal Crossing, I don't know that there would be a "new" character in the same context as say one of the original characters from Heroes, but I think the frontrunners for that are Tom Nook and Isabelle.

I still will maintain that Tom Nook with a moveset of smacking people with a huge sack of Bells and having a Final Smash of Crippling Debt/Loans would be the most true to character moveset. (either that, or he'll turn you into a fossil...and then take it off some poor saps hands so they don't catch on )

I didn't really get into FE: H, but that could just be the "Didn't see that coming" character!

Speaking of FEH, I actually think Fjorm has a non-zero shot of getting in. Not as likely IMO as, say, someone from SoV or FE16, but more than zero.

That being said, I think Heroes has a really good shot at representation through items: having the Breidablik summon different Fire Emblem characters as a series-specific Assist like the Poké Ball would be perfect.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Fjorm would be an awesome first spear fighter for the game.

As much as I love Fjorm, I think that Sharena would be more likely as the Smash character as the roster would've been decided long before Fjorm was put in Feh.

Does anyone know how popular Chibi Robo is in Japan, by chance?

More than in the West? Almost definitely. Still popular? After Zip Lash, I fear that it's enough to warrant more than an AT.

 

[Starcutter]

Also, hey! You're back!

Yeah Baybeeeeeee

I even paid the 3$ so I could update my tag!

I'm still near sure that's Chorus Kids were planned. Chrom and Chorus Kids were the only characters the Gematsu leak got wrong. Chrom was confirmed to be planned early on, and Chorus Kids' likely gimmick would've forced them to be scrapped alongside Ice Climbers. To top it all off, they appeared as a trophy, which is notable because they were never even mentioned AT ALL in speculation before the Gematsu leak. I don't even know if they were referred to as characters called the "Chorus Kids".

I think they have a good chance if Sakurai still likes the idea. I don't see why he would suddenly dislike it or not want to use it.

Yeah, Idk about Chorus Kids specifically coming back, but a Rhythm Heaven character is probably pretty likely considering that there were Rhythm Heaven enemies in Smash Run.

 

[ErenJager]

My oddball Pokemon pick would be Diggersby.

Because Smash could always use more bunnies.

My oddball Pokemon pick would be either one of the Hitmon's.... probably chan....

But... Hoopa.... a character with pocket dimensions and 4th dimensional portals...
amazing the potential on a unique character game play.

"I love me some dimensions"
- Neil DeGrasse Tyson

 

[Chron]

Speaking of FEH, I actually think Fjorm has a non-zero shot of getting in. Not as likely IMO as, say, someone from SoV or FE16, but more than zero.

That being said, I think Heroes has a really good shot at representation through items: having the Breidablik summon different Fire Emblem characters as a series-specific Assist like the Poké Ball would be perfect.

My brother still wants Rain from FFBE to get in.

 

[papagenos]

Don't know where or why that pic came from, but if Chibi-Robo gets added I'd lose my ****. His gamecube game is, without any shadow of a doubt, one of the most especial games I've ever played in my entire life, but I don't think the game sold too well and his recent platforming reboot was a failure if I'm not wrong, but hey, If they manage to re-escale him to a viable size, which they did with Olimar, amazing.

It was tweeted by nintendo back in January.

check out his eyes...

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If you haven't played it, Super Smash Flash 2 has Chibi Robo.

Yeah I played that and I loved the Chibi Robo design. He isn't necessarily designed the way I would design him, but he was still too much fun to put down.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Well fellas, I finally finished my first prediction roster. Not too confident in it. It's really hard to pick like 15 or so newcomers that all seem reasonable this time around, which I've talked about in the past. Anyway, here it is.

There are a few icons I think I need to explain. The two characters in the top right are Game & Watch and Excitebiker. The triforce is a Zelda newcomer placeholder, the Sweet 16 is a FE16 protagonist placeholder. The two characters to the far left of the fourth row are Mother characters.

The Hank Hill Mii is just a Mii.

The purple muppet is Crash.

EDIT: I'd probably put Chibi-Robo somewhere on there if I remade it, but I kinda forgot he existed.

 

[Chron]

It was tweeted by nintendo back in January.

check out his eyes...

View attachment 138536

Sorry everyone but I'm gonna be dead for a little while, thanks for your understanding.

 

[PF9]

And another thing. Change the victory tune of the Pokemon from the main series theme to the captured Pokemon fanfare from G1 for the G1 Pokemon (Mewtwo gets a rock version), and the captured Pokemon fanfare from later generations for the rest of the Pokemon. Absolutely no reason this cannot be done.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Sorry everyone but I'm gonna be dead for a little while, thanks for your understanding.

I remember looking at it back when they tweeted it and brushing it off as if it was impossible. Now it's back here and seems at least mildly reasonable, my heart can't take this.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to draw connections between that one picture of Chibi-Robo being on fire and a potential Smash inclusion.

The logo being on fire could, in that mindset, also lead us to conclude we're getting at least 16 Marth Clones because "Fire Emblem".

Or, wait, nevermind. We're getting Shrek, because clearly those flames were from the angry townspeople who wouldn't get out of his swamp. (No, really, I've been waiting to use this picture for DAYS)


Not trying to be mean over Chibi-Robo or anything, honest! Just trying to have a wee bit of fun is all.