Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

KMDP I got the trophy...

You know what to do

 

[Chrono.]

The main issue with Fates' character writing is that most of the good character stuff is hidden in the Supports.

If the character makes a bad first impression on you, and you don't want to use them for that reason, then your SOL.

Supports in the game were kinda like russian roulette tbh.

They could either be really good or... Not great.

 

[Deleted member]

The main issue with Fates' character writing is that most of the good character stuff is hidden in the Supports.

If the character makes a bad first impression on you, and you don't want to use them for that reason, then your SOL.

Straight Outta Luck? I guess so. My issue with Awakening and Fates's casts is that a good majority of them feel...one dimensional I guess would be the best term? I just got bored with them pretty quickly.

 

[Firewolf73]

The stabbing? :s i wouldn't really be surprised...



While i pretty much agree with most of your points and certainly understand your concerns... i don't think that echoes were done "just because is easy" there was a popularity factor in it too. Even if doesn't show on smash related polls, Richter and Ken are very popular.
Hilda would be a very easy character to create as an echo. but i honestly don't see her happening unless she gains like a "crazy" following right now and she ends as some sort of DLC. after all, even if is not too much work, is still work DX.

Everyone is clamoring ms.pacman but how many people actually want her as her own character?

Yeah I feel like most people expected Ms. pac man to get in as an alt costume, not sure why it wouldn’t work.

Hilda did certainly become more popular if you compare her fan base before the e3 and echo thing so I’m starting to think she will make it in as DLC (maybe).

 

[Idon]

You mean Persona x SMT?

As the resident Persona guy I feel a need to comment in all of this, but I have little to say that I already haven't. I feel like we'll see Joker before Yu, but it's the old vs. the new really.

I'll be honest, it doesn't even approach Persona in most ways other than the vague "happyish" motif. None of the interesting mechanics are present.

One question: If they ever got into Smash, would you prefer them using multiple Personas with the Wild Card or just stick to Izanagi/Arsene?

Personally I'd prefer the main persona. Otherwise. It'd be generic summoning (which is a more SMT thing). Look at Persona 4 Arena and the animes and it looks far more interesting and cool when they work in tandem with their personal persona to do attacks.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll be honest, it doesn't even approach Persona in most ways other than the vague "happyish" motif.

That game literally looked like some generic anime game trying to connect itself to Fire Emblem and SMT. And failing. Miserably.
Persona is nowhere near the tone of that game.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

One question: If they ever got into Smash, would you prefer them using multiple Personas with the Wild Card or just stick to Izanagi/Arsene?

Multiple Personas easily. Of course, most of their attacks would involve Izanagi/Arsene, but I'd definitely like to see Personas like Jack Frost, Pumpkin Jack, and others appear. The Wild Card is one of the defining characters of Persona, so it should be represented.

Best case scenario Sakurai takes a Persona of each Arcana (Lovers, Chariot, Tower, etc.) and has them use those for their moveset, like Yu in Persona 4 the Animation.

 

[Deleted member]

So, DaybreakHorizon and Idon , how would you guys feel about a Persona Vs Shin Megami Tensei fighting game made by Arc Systems?

 

[KMDP]

Supports in the game were kinda like russian roulette tbh.

They could either be really good or... Not great.

Who could forget the wonder that is Beruka and Saizo C Support.

Seriously, the localisers took a really interesting Support and made a joke out of it.

Spoiler: Beruka/Saizo C Support

Localised

Saizo: [angry expression]...​

​

Beruka: [angry expression]...​

​

Saizo: [smile]...​

​

Beruka: [smile]...​

Original

Saizo: You’re…. The assassin from Nohr, Beruka aren’t you.​

​

Beruka: …..did you want something? Hoshido’s shinobi…..Saizo.​

​

Saizo: Oh….? It seems that we already know one another’s names.​

​

Beruka: Yes…. The name Saizo of Hoshido is widely known in Nohr. The next king’s faithful retainer…. As well as an assassin of high ability.​

​

Saizo: Same here, from a young age to kill without hesitation, rumours of a little girl that was a ruthless murder weapon.​

​

Beruka: …I see. How many…. Have you killed?​

​

Saizo: What’s with that question….. you remember such things?​

​

Beruka: As an assassin counting is a daily routine in my job. But after I was taken in by Camilla…. I stopped counting. I don’t know if that’s good or bad for me… only that that had changed.​

​

Saizo: Is that so.​

​

Beruka: ….I’ve answered. So how about you?​

​

Saizo: I…. can never forget. Even if I don’t want to remember…. Even if I want to forget….. The faces and numbers of people that I’ve killed…. It’s been engraved clearly into my heart.​

​

Beruka: ……I see.​

​

Saizo: To have to join hands with an assassin from an enemy country like this must be fate. We both have Lords that we must protect….. Beruka. Please take good care of me from here on out.​

​

Beruka: Yes.​

Straight Outta Luck? I guess so. My issue with Awakening and Fates's casts is that a good majority of them feel...one dimensional I guess would be the best term? I just got bored with them pretty quickly.

This is kind of the issue I was getting at, a lot of the characters have more depth than their initial introduction would imply, but this depth is often hidden deep inside their Support strings, if that one dimension they show from the start doesn't interest you, then those who are less forgiving about characters aren't likely to stick with them to learn more about them.

EDIT: Yes, SOL stands for Straight Outta Luck (well, there's a more crass version, but...)

 

[Deleted member]

This is kind of the issue I was getting at, a lot of the characters have more depth than their initial introduction would imply, but this depth is often hidden deep inside their Support strings, if that one dimension they show from the start doesn't interest you, then those who are less forgiving about characters aren't likely to stick with them to learn more about them.

Hmm...I guess Fire Emblem's characterization isn't my style then. I might have to replay those games to see.

 

[osby]

Multiple Personas easily. Of course, most of their attacks would involve Izanagi/Arsene, but I'd definitely like to see Personas like Jack Frost, Pumpkin Jack, and others appear. The Wild Card is one of the defining characters of Persona, so it should be represented.

Best case scenario Sakurai takes a Persona of each Arcana (Lovers, Chariot, Tower, etc.) and has them use those for their moveset, like Yu in Persona 4 the Animation.

While this would be really cool, I can't see them doing over a dozen models just for one moveset. Maybe Smash attacks-initial Persona, specials-four regular Personae, Final Smash- Ultimate Persona.

 

[Idon]

So, DaybreakHorizon and Idon , how would you guys feel about a Persona Vs Shin Megami Tensei fighting game made by Arc Systems?

Duh, I'd play the hell out of it.

Though I don't think it's very likely with the inevitable P5Arena.

Honestly, I want to play as most Megaten characters in other genres.

Who could forget the wonder that is Beruka and Saizo C Support.

Seriously, the localisers took a really interesting Support and made a joke out of it.

Spoiler: Beruka/Saizo C Support

Localised

Saizo: [angry expression]...​

​

Beruka: [angry expression]...​

​

Saizo: [smile]...​

​

Beruka: [smile]...​

Original

Saizo: You’re…. The assassin from Nohr, Beruka aren’t you.​

​

Beruka: …..did you want something? Hoshido’s shinobi…..Saizo.​

​

Saizo: Oh….? It seems that we already know one another’s names.​

​

Beruka: Yes…. The name Saizo of Hoshido is widely known in Nohr. The next king’s faithful retainer…. As well as an assassin of high ability.​

​

Saizo: Same here, from a young age to kill without hesitation, rumours of a little girl that was a ruthless murder weapon.​

​

Beruka: …I see. How many…. Have you killed?​

​

Saizo: What’s with that question….. you remember such things?​

​

Beruka: As an assassin counting is a daily routine in my job. But after I was taken in by Camilla…. I stopped counting. I don’t know if that’s good or bad for me… only that that had changed.​

​

Saizo: Is that so.​

​

Beruka: ….I’ve answered. So how about you?​

​

Saizo: I…. can never forget. Even if I don’t want to remember…. Even if I want to forget….. The faces and numbers of people that I’ve killed…. It’s been engraved clearly into my heart.​

​

Beruka: ……I see.​

​

Saizo: To have to join hands with an assassin from an enemy country like this must be fate. We both have Lords that we must protect….. Beruka. Please take good care of me from here on out.​

​

Beruka: Yes.​

This is kind of the issue I was getting at, a lot of the characters have more depth than their initial introduction would imply, but this depth is often hidden deep inside their Support strings, if that one dimension they show from the start doesn't interest you, then those who are less forgiving about characters aren't likely to stick with them to learn more about them.

EDIT: Yes, SOL stands for Straight Outta Luck (well, there's a more crass version, but...)

Unfortunately, supports pre FE9 had the unfortunate side effect of being LIMITED PER CHARACTER.
So if you want an A rank between 2 characters, guess what, you can only get a B rank with ONE other person.

Not only that, you could only farm a limited amount of support points per map, making it a huge slog that most players don't use.

 

[Warchamp7]

Cyn and Warchamp7 are the admins I'm more familiar with. Just PM them about your problem...

I did a pass on it Idon

Spoiler tags have a bad habit of duping themselves if your bbcode is mismatched or if a tag is opened before a spoiler and closed inside it. I deleted a few random [/i] from the post as well as all the duped spoiler tags

 

[Deleted member]

Duh, I'd play the hell out of it.

Though I don't think it's very likely with the inevitable P5Arena.

Honestly, I want to play as most Megaten characters in other genres.

Same here. I had an idea of the roster would look like:
Persona:
Joker
Ryuji
Morgana
Anne
Makoto
Yu
Youske
Chie
Yukiko
Teddie
Aigis
Junpei
Yukari
Mitsuru
Akihiko
Goro
Adachi

SMT:
Kazyua
Aleph
Demi-Fiend
Flynn
Nanashi
Tamaki
Strange Journey Marine
Serph
Raido
Nemisia
SMT 1 Law Hero
SMT 1 Chaos Hero
SMT 2 Law Hero
Chyaki
Jonathan
Walter
Lucifer

 

[KMDP]

Hmm...I guess Fire Emblem's characterization isn't my style then. I might have to replay those games to see.

To be honest, like Chrono. said, it's Russian Roulette.

Example 1: Camilla is obsessed with Corrin, Jakob is also obsessively loyal to Corrin; naturally the Camilla/Jakob support is them getting into arguments about Corrin. However, the Camilla/Hinoka support is about Camilla teaching Hinoka how to sew, and has absolutely nothing to do with Corrin.
Example 2: Oboro hates Nohrians with a fiery passion, Corrin and Silas (along with a few others exclusive to Revelations) are from Nohr; pretty much every Support between Oboro and a Nohrian starts with her hating them and warming up over time; technically they're all unique, but they follow similar beats.

 

[Idon]

I did a pass on it Idon

Spoiler tags have a bad habit of duping themselves if your bbcode is mismatched or if a tag is opened before a spoiler and closed inside it. I deleted a few random [/i] from the post as well as all the duped spoiler tags

Wow, thanks, man. Didn't think I'd get a reply so soon.

This kind of stuff is new to me, so could you explain to me how I would avoid doing something like that again? Like how to avoid the bbcode mismatch and the tag thing?

 

[KMDP]

Wow, thanks, man. Didn't think I'd get a reply so soon.

This kind of stuff is new to me, so could you explain to me how I would avoid doing something like that again? Like how to avoid the bbcode mismatch and the tag thing?

You can press the gear on the Comment Box to enter "BBcode view", which lets you check the code for errors if you need to.

 

[osby]

Honestly, any Persona character would do (there is very little I don't like) if it means we can get this:

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, like Chrono. said, it's Russian Roulette.

Example 1: Camilla is obsessed with Corrin, Jakob is also obsessively loyal to Corrin; naturally the Camilla/Jakob support is them getting into arguments about Corrin. However, the Camilla/Hinoka support is about Camilla teaching Hinoka how to sew, and has absolutely nothing to do with Corrin.
Example 2: Oboro hates Nohrians with a fiery passion, Corrin and Silas (along with a few others exclusive to Revelations) are from Nohr; pretty much every Support between Oboro and a Nohrian starts with her hating them and warming up over time; technically they're all unique, but they follow similar beats.

Wow. Sounds like it's more all over the place than I thought lol.

 

[Idon]

You can press the gear on the Comment Box to enter "BBcode view", which lets you check the code for errors if you need to.

Yeah, I've been using that occassionally, but I don't quite know how to diagnose an error like the one I had besides "oh, that's a lot of unnecessary /spoilers"

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I don't know why, but I suddenly feel as if Lotus Juice did a rap cover of an SMT battle theme somewhere sometime ago. No idea why, just came straight out of the blue. It'd be hilarious if that actually happened.

 

[osby]

You know, I don't know why, but I suddenly feel as if Lotus Juice did a rap cover of an SMT battle theme somewhere sometime ago. No idea why, just came straight out of the blue. It'd be hilarious if that actually happened.

Lotus Juice is great at taking regular BGM and turning into pure awesomeness (proof: his Deep Mentality remix). I personally think he works better working with other singers on the same track but his rap+SMT battle themes would be a treat.

Also, to turn the topic back to Smash, one reason XCX or P3 music would be nice in Smash: we need more rap.

 

[Deleted member]

Lotus Juice is great at taking regular BGM and turning into pure awesomeness (proof: his Deep Mentality remix). I personally think he works better working with other singers on the same track but his rap+SMT battle themes would be a treat.

Also, to turn the topic back to Smash, one reason XCX or P3 music would be nice in Smash: we need more rap.

I dunno about XCX's ost. Just didn't pack that epic feel 1 and 2's did.

 

[osby]

I dunno about XCX's ost. Just didn't pack that epic feel 1 and 2's did.

Eh, I too liked XC soundtrack overall better but I wouldn't mind a few tracks from X, especially The key we've lost.

 

[KMDP]

You know, I don't know why, but I suddenly feel as if Lotus Juice did a rap cover of an SMT battle theme somewhere sometime ago. No idea why, just came straight out of the blue. It'd be hilarious if that actually happened.

We should get an SMT/Persona character in Smash just for an excuse to have Lotus Juice do remixes for other series.

 

[Deleted member]

Holy crap. Turns out Lotus Juice did actually cover an SMT battle theme.

It's...Uh...

 

[osby]

So... does anyone wants more music from certain genres? Personally, I wouldn't mind having more rap or pop tracks or more tracks that lean on techno side.

 

[Zinith]

So... does anyone wants more music from certain genres? Personally, I wouldn't mind having more rap or pop tracks or more tracks that lean on techno side.

I'd like some technical death metal...

 

[osby]

I'd like some technical death metal...

As mixes of Yoshi's Island tracks, I assume?

 

[Zinith]

As mixes of Yoshi's Island tracks, I assume?

If Boshi ever gets in, yes...

 

[Captain Shwampy]

when will shoji meguro do a sonic remix

 

[osby]

Soon, I hope.

Also, I promise this is the last time I spam Persona music, but if Shoji Meguro ever accepts putting his music in Smash, objectively the best lass boss music of all times needs to be in:

Spoiler

After that, he can work on all the fun remixes.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

speaking of sonic and persona
Jun Senou and Shoji Meguro performed some Persona 5 tunes at TGS

@1:37:33

 

[osby]

speaking of sonic and persona
Jun Senou performed a remix of some Persona 5 tunes at TGS

@1:44:08

Oh, wow, such a cool remix of Life Will Change. I was going to say the vocal was kinda weak but the ending was on fire.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Oh, wow, such a cool remix of Life Will Change. I was going to say the vocal was kinda weak but the ending was on fire.

there was a remix of the boss theme before it with senou awesome sonic adventure guitar

PUYO PUYO MUSIC TOO WHAT

Edit:

I cant believe im seeing Jun and Meguro perform together
Im convinced Meguro did a sonic remix in smash now

 

[Cyn]

Aaay, thanks for the shoutout.

Unfortunately, the thread's got this weird issue where everytime I edit it, the spoilers duplicate themselves, and it's gotten to the point where the thread refuses to show previews unless I go into the code section and manually remove all the spoilers.

Link me and I can likely fix it. Sometimes the formatting gets wonky when you use different font colors and mess with alignment. I’ll be happy to look at it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I don't particularly care what they do at this point as long as they don't pull another
View attachment 166224
ever again.

The dangers of teasing something waaaaaaaaaaaay too early.

Let us all think it would be a grand crossover, instead we ended up with...

If you combined a burger and a pizza, you think you'd end up with a burger with nice cheese and sauce, but here you ended up with a pizza with ketchup and plastic cheese.

That said, I bought the game a while back so I'll see if the gameplay redeems it.

 

[Dukemon]

We still do not got a music sample from Sonic on the website.

Smash Bros Battle Royale. Also, can't forget Thanos.

btw. in Smash Bros. Brawl we have got a Battle Royal mode. The announcer even shout it out.

I'm still pretty confident we'll be getting a Smash Direct in October. There seems to be a pattern after all which is too big to be a coincidence.

June: Smash Direct > August: Smash Direct > October: Smash Direct > December: Release date

I have no expectation it will be a Smash Direct in October. Maybe it is a month with an anniversary (pokemon? Sonic?) and an upate about new game (Pokemon Lets Go?) of a IP that is part of Smash Bros. Maybe a Pokemon Direct with a Smash Trailer. I am expecting in November a Direct with everything we need to know about Smash Bros. Special.

 

[KMDP]

Wow. Sounds like it's more all over the place than I thought lol.

It's the price IntSys pays for focusing on Quantity of Supports over Quality of Supports.

In the GBA Fire Emblem games (the games that introduced Supports in it's modern form), characters had a relatively small pool of others they could support with, usually (but not always) those with preexisting connections (out of a cast of about 30, a character will have about 8x3 possible Supports at the very most, even Roy, Lyn, Eliwood, Hector, Eirika and Ephraim had limited supports),

In Awakening and Fates, at minimum every character (except a small handful) can support with every other character of the opposite sex (not counting the second generation characters they aren't related to). and then they have a small pool of same-sex characters they can support with. Robin and Corrin can support with all other characters. Basically, most characters have ~16x3.5 Support Chains they can access, and Robin/Corrin double (Robin) or triple (Corrin) that number. This system means that many characters are forced to interact, simply because they are of the opposite sex.

That's not even getting into the fact that some characters have their joke totally eclipse all their supports (e.g. Arthur, whose comically low luck makes up the extreme majority of his supports)

 

[Deleted member]

So... does anyone wants more music from certain genres? Personally, I wouldn't mind having more rap or pop tracks or more tracks that lean on techno side.

Some music made by Akira Yamaoka would be good.

So I have a question, would any of you buy a Smash game that played like a traditional fighting game?