Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

Huh weird the icon isn't working for me...

Clear your cache.

 

[Zinith]

Can give a quick one:
: Cool kids.
: Nice girl.
: Cool vampire hunter.
: Cooler vampire hunter.
: Pure cinnamon bun, too good for this world.
: Genuinely creepy.
: Please cease to exist.
: You too, if you please.

I have a question. Have you always not liked Ridley or K. Rool, or was it Smash speculation that did it?

Huh weird the icon isn't working for me...It must be a glitch.

Clear your cache

 

[Murlough]

In all fairness, you could say that "The Wii Fit Trainer isn't Iconic, Wii Fit is!" but look at who we have here. Or "Villager isn't iconic, Animal Crossing is!" Steve is a part of Minecraft and if he were playable he'd represent what the game is about through his moveset. It's a different case from Monster Hunter where a boss better represents the game then a character, since it's a game about gigantic boss fights.

Not that I'm actually expecting him to be playable, I just like to argue these things.

Thats actually a really good point. Welp, guess I’ll have to go make peace with the character now...

If he gets in at least that means I get to laugh at the Box Theory stuff. If the Box Theory is legit then I don’t have to deal with the fugly mess that is Steve so win-win.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well it could also be a glitch tbh one that might fix itself. No big loss though.

 

[KMDP]

Huh weird the icon isn't working for me...It must be a glitch.

Hard refresh the page (CTRL+F5) or clear your cache (hard refreshing loads from the site, rather than the cache).

armageddon was supposed to happen in 2012.

Armageddon happened in 1998.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Minecraft's sold almost 150million copies, and Sakurai himself likes the game.


If nothing else, Steve being in the base game means B+K could be in as DLC later down the line.

You do realize that Sakurai Bias is not a very good argument. Nor is sales. There are plenty of games who have sold exponential amounts and do not have a character. There have been a good few characters that got in despite their low sales. Sakurai bias was always shot down when people brought up Kid Icarus and Kirby so it should be shot down here too. No need for a double standard just because a leak, that is unlikely to start with, said so.

The ONLY character that has the luxury of having pure Sakurai acknowledgement is Geno. He wants him in the game, wants him PLAYABLE, and he's the only one he's ever mentioned besides, like, Takamaru.

No, seeing Steve in the game defeats the purpose of what I feel he's trying to accomplish with this game. Giving fans what they want the most. How many people do you see scurrying around to support Steve? Minuscule. Yet, he gets special treatment because Sakurai likes the game? Highly doubtful.

 

[Deleted member]

You do realize that Sakurai Bias is not a very good argument. Nor is sales. There are plenty of games who have sold exponential amounts and so not have a character.

THANK YOU for saying this. I've been seeing this been thrown around a lot for Steve's case, and it doesn't hold any merit when we only have Tetris represented with two songs only, and that's the most sold game of all time.

It CAN be a good step up for anyone, but it isn't really a valid case for franchises when we have the case for Tetris. ...Which sucks because I want a damn Tetris Block AT.

 

[Will]

The ONLY character that has the luxury have having pure Sakurai acknowledgement is Geno. He wants him in the game and he's the only one.

Nope. Guess wanted to be shown in Melee.

No, seeing Steve in the game defeats the purpose of what I feel he's trying to accomplish with this game. Giving fans what they want the most. How many people do you see scurrying around to support Steve? Minuscule. Yet, he gets special treatment because Sakurai likes the game? Highly doubtful.

Nobody was exactly clamoring en masse for Simon and Richter either. Kids ****ing love Minecraft, and to exclude them from being able to vote in the ballot is a valuable everybody misses.

 

[Shroob]

You do realize that Sakurai Bias is not a very good argument. Nor is sales. There are plenty of games who have sold exponential amounts and so not have a character. There have been a good few characters that got in despite their low sales. Sakurai bias was always shot down when people brought up Kid Icarus and Kirby so it should be shot down here too. No need for a double standard just because a leak that is very unlikely in the beginning.

The ONLY character that has the luxury have having pure Sakurai acknowledgement is Geno. He wants him in the game and he's the only one.

No, seeing Steve in the game defeats the purpose of what I feel he's trying to accomplish with this game. Giving fans what they want the most. How many people do you see scurrying around to support Steve? Minuscule. Yet, he gets special treatment because Sakurai likes the game? Highly doubtful.

You're also acting like every pick is going to be due to fan demand, which it's not.

How many people want Incineroar if he's in? Before Vergeben, and don't pull the "Pokemon's special!" card either. Sakurai put Incineroar in, probably a bit due to the Pokemon Company yes, but he also had a choice most likely. He added Incineroar, if he's in, because he liked the concept.



I'd say Minecraft is hell deserving, personal opinion, I know.




If Sakurai went to Microsoft with the intentions of Banjo, but they denied him and offered Steve instead, I don't see him as one to turn him down. Companies want to put their best foot forward, so why would Microsoft want to be repped for the first time in Smash by, pardon my French but, a dead franchise, compared to one that is a gaming icon?



Also, sales mean nothing?


Two words.


Wii Fit.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You do realize that Sakurai Bias is not a very good argument. Nor is sales. There are plenty of games who have sold exponential amounts and do not have a character. There have been a good few characters that got in despite their low sales. Sakurai bias was always shot down when people brought up Kid Icarus and Kirby so it should be shot down here too. No need for a double standard just because a leak, that is unlikely to start with, said so.

The ONLY character that has the luxury of having pure Sakurai acknowledgement is Geno. He wants him in the game, wants him PLAYABLE, and he's the only one he's ever mentioned besides, like, Takamaru.

No, seeing Steve in the game defeats the purpose of what I feel he's trying to accomplish with this game. Giving fans what they want the most. How many people do you see scurrying around to support Steve? Minuscule. Yet, he gets special treatment because Sakurai likes the game? Highly doubtful.

The argument is he gets special treatment for being in one of the best-selling games of all time and is especially a popular game with kids

 

[WertQuadNine]

To be fair, everyone who knows Minecraft knows Steve, and he even get's his own merchandise with the rest of the game's stuff. In Sakurai's eyes, he may see the character as iconic as the game itself, as Steve's pretty much used to represent it alongside Alex/female Steve and the Creeper.

Of course, the Creeper would be much more iconic than both Steve and Alex. I want the Creeper to be playable if we're getting a playable rep.

Disagree, if you tell almost anyone (even gamers) Steve is going to be added to Smash Bros, they would be hella confused. You would have to say Steve, the playable character in minecraft.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

You do realize that Sakurai Bias is not a very good argument. Nor is sales. There are plenty of games who have sold exponential amounts and so not have a character. There have been a good few characters that got in despite their low sales. Sakurai bias was always shot down when people brought up Kid Icarus and Kirby so it should be shot down here too. No need for a double standard just because a leak that is very unlikely in the beginning.

The ONLY character that has the luxury have having pure Sakurai acknowledgement is Geno. He wants him in the game and he's the only one.

No, seeing Steve in the game defeats the purpose of what I feel he's trying to accomplish with this game. Giving fans what they want the most. How many people do you see scurrying around to support Steve? Minuscule. Yet, he gets special treatment because Sakurai likes the game? Highly doubtful.

While I'm not discounting Steve, I do find it interesting that, among the "support" I've seen for him, almost all of it is petty and vindictive. Like, "Steve would make people salty, so I want him." Lol, OK...?

 

[Will]

You would have to say Steve, the playable character in minecraft.

You can't.
People already say "Minecraft Steve" by default in most cases. If you're already on the topic on Minecraft and you say Steve, you don't need to add the title because who else are you gonna talk about?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Disagree, if you tell almost anyone (even gamers) Steve is going to be added to Smash Bros, they would be hella confused. You would have to say Steve, the playable character in minecraft.

Well that's just because "Steve" is a pretty normal name. Show them a picture of Steve and they'll go "ooooooh, you mean that guy".

 

[NintenRob]

So I've been thinking about Music on the site.

I can definitely see repeats from franchises that had songs from the beginning. They never had any blog post about them. And two of them we know will have a lot of songs in the game. Ones Street Fighter, which we has had a huge jump, and the other is Zelda, because duh, Zelda is probably the series most famous for its music.

 

[Union of Darkness]

I would not care for Steve actually. Minecraft is not actually aesthetically pleasing to look at, especially the characters. I know it was never the point to look nice, but it still doesn't look nice.

 

[Shoopdawooper]

Maybe I missed it, but are we not talking about the Sora tweet?

 

[Will]

Maybe I missed it, but are we not talking about the Sora tweet?

Happened before, meant nothing then, means nothing now.

 

[Shroob]

Truth be told, I never put much stock into the Phil Spencer quote.

It's just PR jargon.


No company is going to say that a character 'can't' be in Smash because they know how badly that'd piss off their fanbase. Sure, Phil says he'd be fine with it, but it means as much as that Sora tweet from earlier.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Nope. Guess wanted to be shown in Melee.

Not fair. Wario is already in.

Nobody was exactly clamoring en masse for Simon and Richter either. Kids ****ing love Minecraft, and to exclude them from being able to vote in the ballot is a valuable everybody misses.

Check back to pre brawl and yes, people wanted Simon, even hating Snake because he got in over him.

Sure, kids did vote in the ballot but if Simon is any indication, he may be looking outside the ballot for newcomers as well. Who's got the biggest following for a Microsoft character?

You're also acting like every pick is going to be due to fan demand, which it's not.

It has been so far. The only character that MAYBE discounts that is Inceneroar.

How many people want Incineroar if he's in? Before Vergeben, and don't pull the "Pokemon's special!" card either. Sakurai put Incineroar in, probably a bit due to the Pokemon Company yes, but he also had a choice most likely. He added Incineroar, if he's in, because he liked the concept.

I'm not going to pull the Pokemon is special card. No, I'm gonna pull the Sakurai always asks Game Freak who their most pushed character is in terms of movies and etc card. If a character, such as Inceneroar appears in multimedia frequently; including games, Movies, TV, and Trading Cards, then their most likely going to be one of the most popular.

Also, Inceneroar hasn't even been revealed yet. I know we all think he's very likely but Vergeben's perfect track record CAN take a hit. It's not impossible.

I'd say Minecraft is hell deserving, personal opinion, I know.

Sure, yeah, I get that. I wasn't attacking your opinion. I was starting that using sales and Sakurai Bias as a counterpoint is not a valid argument. Plenty of characters can fall under the "sold well" or "Sakurai talked about this" banner. What about fan support? What about potential in moveset? What about the company it comes from?

If Sakurai went to Microsoft with the intentions of Banjo, but they denied him and offered Steve instead, I don't see him as one to turn him down. Companies want to put their best foot forward, so why would Microsoft want to be repped for the first time in Smash by, pardon my French but, a dead franchise, compared to one that is a gaming icon?

They'd want to be repped by it because that's the character people want. You can look around and find Banjo supporters everywhere, Master Chief supporters elsewhere, and Steve supporters almost nowhere.

Picture this: Sakurai approaches Phil Spencer, head of Xbox, and asks for Banjo, a character Phil has acknowledged has fans and would agree to for Smash publicly. Do you really think Phil would deny who Sakurai wants? A character whose fans Phil has acknowledged? Do you think Sakurai would take Steve if no? I doubt it. We got Mega Man because Sakurai knew we wanted Mega Man, we got old Pac-Man because that was the Pac-Man we wanted, we got Ridley and K. Rool and Isabelle because that's who we wanted. Same deal here I would imagine.

The argument is he gets special treatment for being in one of the best-selling games of all time and is especially a popular game with kids

So, Fortnite Character confirmed? I mean you dont even have to go to a rival company for that one. I dont think he'll add Steve for that reason, honest.

Truth be told, I never put much stock into the Phil Spencer quote.

It's just PR jargon.


No company is going to say that a character 'can't' be in Smash because they know how badly that'd piss off their fanbase. Sure, Phil says he'd be fine with it, but it means as much as that Sora tweet from earlier.

He could've just said no comment. He didn't. He said "yeah, sure, if Nintendo wants to". PR jargon is more of "No plans at this time" or "no comment". Not "yeah".

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Is "dead franchise" a good argument? Smash has characters from "dead" or "on life support" franchises like F-Zero and Star Fox. Isn't Castlevania also "dead", in terms of games? Wasn't King K. Rool "dead"?

Also, aren't there Banjo & Kazooie skins for Minecraft on the Switch coming soon? What about Yooka-Laylee? Not a popular game, but had a successful kickstarter campaign because it used momentum garnered from Banjo & Kazooie's popularity. The franchise itself might be dead, but it's still recognizable and would still be profitable to Microsoft.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Truth be told, I never put much stock into the Phil Spencer quote.

It's just PR jargon.


No company is going to say that a character 'can't' be in Smash because they know how badly that'd piss off their fanbase. Sure, Phil says he'd be fine with it, but it means as much as that Sora tweet from earlier.

Ask him about any character and you'd have gotten the same answer. Honestly, why wouldn't he say yes? It makes sense. Smash itself is a huge honor to have your 3rd party character in(so to speak on the terminology). There's no stock worth putting into Phil's quote. If anything the quote made it a little bit more known that there's a lot of clamoring for B&K, which explains the costume in Minecraft Switch(specifically for the n64 fans too). And that's not a bad thing either, of course.

 

[Shroob]

Not fair. Wario is already in.

Check back to pre brawl and yes, people wanted Simon, even hating Snake because he got in over him.

Sure, kids did vote in the ballot but if Simon is any indication, he may be looking outside the ballot for newcomers as well. Who's got the biggest following for a Microsoft character?

It has been so far. The only character that MAYBE discounts that is Inceneroar.

I'm not going to pull the Pokemon is special card. No, I'm gonna pull the Sakurai always asks Game Freak who their most pushed character is in terms of movies and etc card. If a character, such as Inceneroar appears in multimedia frequently; including games, Movies, TV, and Trading Cards, then their most likely going to be one of the most popular.

Also, Inceneroar hasn't even been revealed yet. I know we all think he's very likely but Vergeben's perfect track record CAN take a hit. It's not impossible.




Sure, yeah, I get that. I wasn't attacking your opinion. I was starting that using sales and Sakurai Bias as a counterpoint is not a valid argument. Plenty of characters can fall under the "sold well" or "Sakurai talked about this" banner. What about fan support? What about potential in moveset? What about the company it comes from?





They'd want to be repped by it because that's the character people want. You can look around and find Banjo supporters everywhere, Master Chief supporters elsewhere, and Steve supporters almost nowhere.

Picture this: Sakurai approaches Phil Spencer, head of Xbox, and asks for Banjo, a character Phil has acknowledged has fans and would agree to for Smash publicly. Do you really think Phil would deny who Sakurai wants? A character whose fans Phil has acknowledged? Do you think Sakurai would take Steve if no? I doubt it. We got Mega Man because Sakurai knew we wanted Mega Man, we got old Pac-Man because that was the Pac-Man we wanted, we got Ridley and K. Rool and Isabelle because that's who we wanted. Same deal here I would imagine.

So, Fortnite Character confirmed? I mean you dont even have to go to a rival company for that one. I dont think he'll add Steve for that reason, honest.

He could've just said no comment. He didn't. He said "yeah, sure, if Nintendo wants to". PR jargon is more of "No plans at this time" or "no comment". Not "yeah".

I saw basically zero Cloud supporters and all the Geno supporters come the ballot.

Guess what happened.


Cloud won out over Geno in the Square rep.




Yes, I legit believe that if Sakurai approached Microsoft, it was for Steve. Minecraft's sheer impact on gaming dwarfs the two actual good games Banjo has been in, no offense. Is Banjo more popular? Of course.


But if popularity was the be all end all, we'd have Skull Kid, Geno, Shantae, Bandanna Dee, and need I go on.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Is "dead franchise" a good argument? Smash has characters from "dead" or "on life support" franchises like F-Zero and Star Fox. Isn't Castlevania also "dead", in terms of games? Wasn't King K. Rool "dead"?

Also, aren't there Banjo & Kazooie skins for Minecraft on the Switch coming soon? What about Yooka-Laylee? Not a popular game, but had a successful kickstarter campaign because it used momentum garnered from Banjo & Kazooie's popularity. The franchise itself might be dead, but it's still recognizable and would still be profitable to Microsoft.

CastleVania had an actual video game in 2014, before the project plan was done in 2015. It's been in a bit of a slump but 'dead' was never a good way to describe CastleVania

 

[Shroob]

Is "dead franchise" a good argument? Smash has characters from "dead" or "on life support" franchises like F-Zero and Star Fox. Isn't Castlevania also "dead", in terms of games? Wasn't King K. Rool "dead"?

Also, aren't there Banjo & Kazooie skins for Minecraft on the Switch coming soon? What about Yooka-Laylee? Not a popular game, but had a successful kickstarter campaign because it used momentum garnered from Banjo & Kazooie's popularity. The franchise itself might be dead, but it's still recognizable and would still be profitable to Microsoft.

Star Fox and F-Zero were added in the very first Smash game, and they still got games after that.


And K.Rool is a whole different bag of worms. There's reason to believe that Nintendo themselves were trying to never use him again according to apparent insider contacts.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ask him about any character and you'd have gotten the same answer. Honestly, why wouldn't he say yes? It makes sense. Smash itself is a huge honor to have your 3rd party character in(so to speak on the terminology). There's no stock worth putting into Phil's quote. If anything the quote made it a little bit more known that there's a lot of clamoring for B&K, which explains the costume in Minecraft Switch(specifically for the n64 fans too). And that's not a bad thing either, of course.

Phil never just answers questions like that. The Banjo Tweet is one of very, VERY few that he has. If you asked him about Minecraft Steve or Master Chief or anyone else it would probably go ignored. Banjo-Kazooie fans made enough noise to get noticed by the head of Xbox. To say it means absolutely nothing and that he would say that to anything is discrediting to the fans who made it their mission to get an answer. And his answer was yes.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Phil Spencer, aka MR XBOX CEO HIMSELF, has said nothing about Steve and ENCOURAGED Banjo and Kazooie in smash.


But no Hail the Cardboard Box made by Prima.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Guys lets be clear here. If Steve makes Base. Banjo-Kazooie are guaranteed DLC so its win-win.

While were at it too. Master Chief as a Mii Costume.

 

[Shroob]

Phil Spencer, aka MR XBOX CEO HIMSELF, has said nothing about Steve and ENCOURAGED Banjo and Kazooie in smash.


But no Hail the Cardboard Box made by Prima.

No one's even talking about Prima, that ****'s fake as ****. The reason people are talking Steve is due to Vergeben hearing he may be playable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dead franchises =/= characters not currently relevant to the franchise.

K. Rool stopped being relevant among the DKC series for a while now. DKC isn't a dead franchise. It's not the same thing. He's also a ballot pick.

But let's not pretend every pick will be ballot-based. That's ridiculous.

Phil never just answers questions like that. The Banjo Tweet is one of very, VERY few that he has. If you asked him about Minecraft Steve or Master Chief or anyone else it would probably go ignored. Banjo-Kazooie fans made enough noise to get noticed by the head of Xbox. To say it means absolutely nothing and that he would say that to anything is discrediting to the fans who made it their mission to get an answer. And his answer was yes.

So he ignored every single tweet that wasn't B&K? Going to need a bit more proof than just saying so. Do you have actual tweets of him being asked but him not answering? This sounds like hearsay. I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's a pretty big claim as well. I've never seen these tweets, so...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Guys lets be clear here. If Steve makes Base. Banjo-Kazooie are guaranteed DLC so its win-win.

While were at it too. Master Chief as a Mii Costume.

Nah fam, Chief VS Samus would be the most hype 1 man army VS 1 woman army matchup other than Dante VS Bayonetta

 

[Michael the Spikester]

K. Rool stopped being relevant among the DKC series for a while now. DKC isn't a dead franchise. It's not the same thing. He's also a ballot pick.

It wouldn't also be surprising if King K. Rool and the Kremlings are the final enemies in the final third entry of the modern DKC games being built up to. K. Rool's inclusion could be a foreshadowing of that.

 

[Shroob]

It wouldn't also be surprising if King K. Rool and the Kremlings are the final enemies in the final third entry of the modern DKC games being built up to. K. Rool's inclusion could be a foreshadowing of that.

According to what we heard over on the K.Rool board, apparently Retro wanted to use K.Rool but Nintendo shot them down, twice.


Hopefully if we ever get a 3rd game K.Rool can return.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

According to what we heard over on the K.Rool board, apparently Retro wanted to use K.Rool but Nintendo shot them down, twice.


Hopefully if we ever get a 3rd game K.Rool can return.

Huh I wonder why they did that. In that case I wouldn't be surprised if due to K. Rool's inclusion in this game Nintendo will decide to let them make him and the Kremlings the main enemies in the third and final installment. It seems only fitting.

It was thanks to Nintendo that King K. Rool had been absent for a decade!

 

[Will]

only gonna answer stuff sent to me

Not fair. Wario is already in.

Not fair on you either. You never specified that you only meant the currently recognized characters.

Check back to pre brawl and yes, people wanted Simon, even hating Snake because he got in over him.

Everyone has an audience, but nothing can prove Simon was large enough to be up in the big boy rankings. You're going off of fan polls for some of these arguments, and that's all fine and dandy, but not many of these have Castlevania popping up, which means that if Simon truly was persuaded from the ballot, that means there are clear hidden characters that nobody expected to make it up to the top. Imagine Bayonetta, but just not rigged.

Sure, kids did vote in the ballot but if Simon is any indication, he may be looking outside the ballot for newcomers as well. Who's got the biggest following for a Microsoft character?

Minecraft.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I saw basically zero Cloud supporters and all the Geno supporters come the ballot.

Guess what happened.


Cloud won out over Geno in the Square rep.

You dug your own grave here. Sakurai said he saw the support for a Final Fantasy character and that Cloud was the most popular of all of them Geno is known by a select few. Final Fantasy is known by almost everyone. Cloud is the most popular character from that series. Easy.

Yes, I legit believe that if Sakurai approached Microsoft, it was for Steve. Minecraft's sheer impact on gaming dwarfs the two actual good games Banjo has been in, no offense. Is Banjo more popular? Of course.

Ok, cool. Your entitled to your opinion. You can believe that if you want. Me, personally, I don't he'll go to Microsoft but if he did he would go for Banjo because that's who most people want.

But if popularity was the be all end all, we'd have Skull Kid, Geno, Shantae, Bandanna Dee, and need I go on.

I never said it was the be all end all. You said that the reason Steve would get in is because of "150 Million Sales" and "Sakurai likes the game". I just countered with that's not all that goes into consideration and if the current roster is anything to go by then yes, popularity is one of THE most important factors for making it in this time. Ridley and K. Rool and (arguably Simon) didn't get in because of anything BUT popularity. Sakurai said so himself.

 

[Will]

Final Fantasy is known by almost everyone. Cloud is the most popular character from that series. Easy.

Minecraft is known by almost everyone, you just dug your own grave in that other grave.

Me, personally, I don't he'll go to Microsoft but if he did he would go for Banjo because that's who most people want.

Those are not the words you want to use.
You want it because you think that's who most people want, when in fact we don't know who most people want.

 

[osby]

I have a question. Have you always not liked Ridley or K. Rool, or was it Smash speculation that did it?

Clear your cache

Smash speculation helped significantly.

 

[Shroob]

You dug your own grave here. Sakurai said he saw the support for a Final Fantasy character and that Cloud was the most popular of all of them Geno is known by a select few. Final Fantasy is known by almost everyone. Cloud is the most popular character from that series. Easy.




Ok, cool. Your entitled to your opinion. You can believe that if you want. Me, personally, I don't he'll go to Microsoft but if he did he would go for Banjo because that's who most people want.

I never said it was the be all end all. You said that the reason Steve would get in is because of "150 Million Sales" and "Sakurai likes the game". I just countered with that's not all that goes into consideration and if the current roster is anything to go by then yes, popularity is one of THE most important factors for making it in this time. Ridley and K. Rool and (arguably Simon) didn't get in because of anything BUT popularity. Sakurai said so himself.

You can literally say the exact same thing about Banjo vs Steve.

No one who grew up without an N64 basically is going to know who he is, and kids today who play it on Rare Replay probably don't even realize it started on a Nintendo console.


Banjo is for boomers and Steve is for zoomers, and there are just frankly more zoomers than boomers nowadays.

 

[Will]

You can literally say the exact same thing about Banjo vs Steve.

****ing finally I was waiting for a reason to post this again

BANJO VS STEVE - A POINTLESS ESSAY​

It's so pointless I made my own custom template just to show how dedicated I am for such a pointless discussion.

View attachment 158586

EDIT: Decided to not spoiler the image because that's what's gonna draw people to read it maybe. If a mod's not okay with it just lock it up and sue or something idk how this works

So basically if you didn't read my post from a little while ago, I think Banjo and Steve are the biggest of the triad of Microsoft IPs, with the lowest end being Microsoft's own creation: Master Chief. But who would top out in Smash between the two? I got no ****in' idea I'm not Sakurai and I don't wanna pretend like I know the most probable outcome in a choice; because I don't. I'm not even a legal adult yet, I shouldn't be trusted with these options.
But what I can present is my stupid worthless opinion and a little bit of facts here and there to maybe help some others get their big high IQ brains going.

Spoiler: Banjo

Banjo first appeared in 1998 on the Nintendo 64, probably something you already know. But when Microsoft took that sweet sweet Rare IP, so did his ties with Nintendo. However, with Nintendo and Microsoft being all buddy buddy in recent years, this could be his chance at a new appearance for the first time in a decade.

Spoiler: Pros

What Banjo (and the unrelated Conker and that chick from Perfect Dark) has over all other Microsoft IPs, he does have a significant advantage in. That is his preexisting ties with Nintendo.

As the recent craze of bringing characters that have been requested in the same amount of time that Banjo has disappeared from the face of the planet (Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, and possibly more!), that could make his revival all the more imminent if the trend continues. Banjo may have scored really high on the Ballot, which will play a big role in his favor and is probably the biggest make-or-break he has. Many people are confident in his potential results.

Hell, even Phil Spencer said he wouldn't mind putting him in! That's surely a done deal, right?

Spoiler: Cons

Well, not really. Phil Spencer could've likely said the same about any big Microsoft IP, but he was only asked about Banjo specifically. Who knows what would've happened if he was asked to choose what character from Microsoft he would've wanted the most, but that's just his opinion and nothing more... like his tweet. Phil isn't the say all for these types of decisions, and what comes out in the end may not come exactly as Phil expressed his gratitude for.

Also, Banjo Kazooie isn't really as big of a hit in the East as it was in the West. As many as near 2 million units in North America is shaking between 450k to 550k in Japan (thats about 1/4 compared to NA sales). I know, I know, being in the game kind of makes that point obsolete if you see it as such, but it could be a big issue as I will talk about in our next character's descriptions.

Rare owns Banjo, but there are other series that are currently live and could be picked over Banjo. That is, Fulgore from Killer Instinct (or really anyone from that game) or Rash from Battletoads (which was both a character in KI and is in the new Battletoads remake coming next year). And both IPs have made their appearances on Nintendo consoles before, even on separate generations!

Spoiler: Steve

Steve is an unnamed enigma, but Minecraft's official release came out in 2009 on the PC. Microsoft grabbed the IP from Mojang a few years ago, and has been going strong in its advertising, making it one of the alltime best selling games that Microsoft owns. So what's so special about this enigma?

Spoiler: Pros

Let's get the obvious out of the way. Minecraft is huge; really huge. Holy **** it's one of the best selling games period. With over 100 million copies on its belt and continuously rising, this thing is nuts over the globe. This is not only true in the West, but also in the East, where Japan sales of the game have reached millions upon millions on the multiple platforms he has appeared on. Even Japan resident user @Venus of the Desert Bloom mentions accounts of seeing children mention the game.



This is definitely a defining edge over Banjo, which is Minecraft's sheer popularity.

Did I mention multi-platform? Minecraft has made its way from PC, to Xbox, the Playstation, and of course, Nintendo consoles on the Wii U, 3DS, and Switch. Minecraft is everywhere, and if you want a system (and game) seller, Minecraft is the way to go in Smash Bros. I'm not suggesting Sakurai should go the money route, but if he sees fit, the madman may just.

Remember when I mentioned Nintendo and Microsoft being buddy buddy as of late? What game do you think started that? Certainly wasn't Banjo Kazooie. Minecraft and its crossplay feature for both Nintendo and Xbox consoles helped form a friendly relationship. Microsoft may have formed a circle around its game to be used, since its both its best selling and most recent familiar shared property with Nintendo at the moment.

Spoiler: Cons

As I've mentioned before, Steve is an enigma. He's not really a mascot, that goes more towards mob enemies such as the Creeper. It may not be wise to use such a generic avatar. I'm not a personal fan of this argument (due to ultcorrin: being just that), but you have to see both sides to remain truly neutral.

Minecraft may also conflict with the art style, as many as argued it to be too drab or "ugly" for Smash's design.

People are also reluctant to share the same audience as the shunned Minecraft audience, which includes various internet celebrities and waves of children.

Finally, the biggest hitter: the Smash Ballot. Banjo could have scored high, and as we've seen, the Ballot seems to take some type of priority over newer characters in some shape or form. If it's big enough, Minecraft definitely won't have a playable scene.

This is probably the biggest battle of Popular Nostalgia VS Popular Relevancy that I have seen for Smash character dilemma. No character is really a better choice than the other when it comes to how much they can qualify more than others. I can't say one character deserves a slot more than another because saying characters deserve to be in a crossover game is pretty dumb as is. It's mostly down to opinion on what you think.

"But Banjo obviously scored high on the polls! Steve never has a chance!", I hear one guy cry out.
​

That's what you may think. But remember how people talked about the big "meme" or "impossible" ballots, like Goku or Shrek. Allow me to wrap you in some tinfoil for a moment. Would you believe me if I told you that due to its large audience, Minecraft may have an impactful placing on the polls? Now it may seem pretty out of thought, because even I'm skeptical that enough kids are playing Smash Bros. to flood the market with Minecraft votes, but I don't believe that it's impossible. I'll let you think about that proposal, get a big thonker going on.

I hope my rambling gave some insight or maybe it was a fun read to look into.
or maybe i'm just dumb and wrong and nobody will even read it but who knows