Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Dead franchises =/= characters not currently relevant to the franchise.

K. Rool stopped being relevant among the DKC series for a while now. DKC isn't a dead franchise. It's not the same thing. He's also a ballot pick.

But let's not pretend every pick will be ballot-based. That's ridiculous.


So he ignored every single tweet that wasn't B&K? Going to need a bit more proof than just saying so. Do you have actual tweets of him being asked but him not answering? This sounds like hearsay. I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's a pretty big claim as well. I've never seen these tweets, so...

tbh that's a hard thing to argue because if you try tweeting at him now for any Microsoft IP in Smash and it doesn't get a response you can pull the NDA card. Especially as Verge said Minecraft content is in

 

[Will]

forget minecraft and banjo
this is what we really need

 

[Cena]

Hey, guys, what's going on in this threa-

...oh. guess I leave SB again

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

tbh that's a hard thing to argue because if you try tweeting at him now for any Microsoft IP in Smash and it doesn't get a response you can pull the NDA card. Especially as Verge said Minecraft content is in

I was referring to tweets around the time of the B&K one apparently going unanswered.

But that's a really good point. They might mean nothing and it's better just not taking the tweets seriously right now.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You dug your own grave here. Sakurai said he saw the support for a Final Fantasy character and that Cloud was the most popular of all of them Geno is known by a select few. Final Fantasy is known by almost everyone. Cloud is the most popular character from that series. Easy.




Ok, cool. Your entitled to your opinion. You can believe that if you want. Me, personally, I don't he'll go to Microsoft but if he did he would go for Banjo because that's who most people want.

I never said it was the be all end all. You said that the reason Steve would get in is because of "150 Million Sales" and "Sakurai likes the game". I just countered with that's not all that goes into consideration and if the current roster is anything to go by then yes, popularity is one of THE most important factors for making it in this time. Ridley and K. Rool and (arguably Simon) didn't get in because of anything BUT popularity. Sakurai said so himself.

I think the problem here is a difference in the definition of "popularity" between you and Shroob .

To you, popularity is being popular in the Smash Bros. fanbase.

To Shroob, popularity is being popular overall, including outside of the Smash Bros. fanbase.

Looking at it from both points of view, I'm more tempted to believe we'd see Steve first. Minecraft's worldwide popularity is absolutely astonishing. As you said, Minecraft is known by everyone. I say everyone because Minecraft is one of the few games able to achieve popularity on that level, and I'd say it even beats out Final Fantasy and many other Smash series in terms of sales and the popularity that stems from that.

Banjo & Kazooie will definitely be in this game though. With mass fan demand and Phil Spencer talking about it, I'm sure we'll be seeing them eventually. They might just have to wait a bit.

 

[Shroob]

I think the problem here is a difference in the definition of "popularity" between you and Shroob .

To you, popularity is being popular in the Smash Bros. fanbase.

To Shroob, popularity is being popular overall, including outside of the Smash Bros. fanbase.

Looking at it from both points of view, I'm more tempted to believe we'd see Steve first. Minecraft's worldwide popularity is absolutely astonishing. As you said, Minecraft is known by everyone. I say everyone because Minecraft is one of the few games able to achieve popularity on that level, and I'd say it even beats out Final Fantasy and many other Smash series in terms of sales and the popularity that stems from that.

Banjo & Kazooie will definitely be in this game though. With mass fan demand and Phil Spencer talking about it, I'm sure we'll be seeing them eventually. They might just have to wait a bit.

This exactly.



OFC I want Banjo in Smash, but Banjo is like Geno. Banjo's fanbase is like a minnow compared to the shark that Minecraft has in general.


I also think we need to stop taking the polls for 'muh ballot' soo strongly into consideration.


K.Rool is the only character we can say got in due to the ballot, with Ridley, Dark Samus and Chrom being in due to 'popularity', no ballot mentioned.


I want Banjo, but he has to compete with Minecraft, which is a worldwide phenomenon.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Wasn't Banjo up there in the ballot?

 

[NintenRob]

There's a key thing Banjo holds over "Steve" though.


Those quotation marks should give you a hint.

Personally I'd vastly prefer Banjo, but I'd be OK with Minecraft stuff, I just don't think a character is the way to go.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the problem here is a difference in the definition of "popularity" between you and Shroob .

To you, popularity is being popular in the Smash Bros. fanbase.

To Shroob, popularity is being popular overall, including outside of the Smash Bros. fanbase.

Looking at it from both points of view, I'm more tempted to believe we'd see Steve first. Minecraft's worldwide popularity is absolutely astonishing. As you said, Minecraft is known by everyone. I say everyone because Minecraft is one of the few games able to achieve popularity on that level, and I'd say it even beats out Final Fantasy and many other Smash series in terms of sales and the popularity that stems from that.

Banjo & Kazooie will definitely be in this game though. With mass fan demand and Phil Spencer talking about it, I'm sure we'll be seeing them eventually. They might just have to wait a bit.

I kinda wanna up this because I do feel Banjo-Kazooie will end up in the game one way or another. A good question I wanna throw out is what do you all think are "safe locks"? By that I mean which characters do you think will no doubt end up in the game in some way or another.

 

[Will]

Wasn't Banjo up there in the ballot?

All we know is that Bayonetta "won".

There's a key thing Banjo holds over "Steve" though.


Those quotation marks should give you a hint.

But his name is Steve, what's wrong with that?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Minecraft is known by almost everyone, you just dug your own grave in that other grave.

You missed the point of that part. It wasn't a matter of which franchise would get a rep like it is with Minecraft but WHO from Final Fantasy would get that spot. Minecraft is hugely popular I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing support for Steve. If there were more characters and say, people wanted both Steve and a creeper then sure you got a point there. Enough support for multiple Minecraft characters could add up to more so of a point for those characters. Final Fantasy received support for characters from Final Fantasy I with Black Mage, to VII with Cloud, to XIII with Lightning. Steve isn't Minecraft. You didnt have multiple people voting for multiple characters in the ballot, most likely. You probably had the odd ones that voted for Steve. And that's probably it. That was the point of that one. Geno is big but when put up against the entire cast of Final Fantasy he doesn't stand a chance.

Those are not the words you want to use.
You want it because you think that's who most people want, when in fact we don't know who most people want.

So, I'm using what I have to make a judgement, and yeah you're right. Judging from the polls that we DO have and the information that we DO have then yes. Banjo is far more popular, as a character, in Smash Bros. Than Steve.

You can literally say the exact same thing about Banjo vs Steve.

Read above. I cleared up my point.

No one who grew up without an N64 basically is going to know who he is, .

You could say the same about K. Rool, or Simon for that matter.

Banjo is for boomers and Steve is for zoomers, and there are just frankly more zoomers than boomers nowadays.

This point isn't even a point. Zoomers don't even care about Smash. They're all about Fortnite.

****ing finally I was waiting for a reason to post this again

I personally doubt either of them will get in. I don't see it happening. But I see Steve as less likely.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

All we know is that Bayonetta "won".


But his name is Steve, what's wrong with that?

I thought despite rumors that she was always planned to be added. Had nothing to do with the ballot. This time Ultimate is indeed following the ballot based on most of the newcomers.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I kinda wanna up this because I do feel Banjo-Kazooie will end up in the game one way or another. A good question I wanna throw out is what do you all think are "safe locks"? By that I mean which characters do you think will no doubt end up in the game in some way or another.

My only safe locks were Inkling and Springman. Then E3 happened and suddenly ARMS content didn't seem too likely anymore. Also, I'd appreciate if anyone else replying doesn't count Verge's leaked characters as 'safe locks' because they're only considered locks because of a leaker

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All we know is that Bayonetta "won".

I think the issue is people misunderstand what Sakurai meant. She did amazing well on the ballot. She just wasn't added because of that. The poll was never rigged either. Why? Because we were never promised a newcomer specifically for Smash 4 from the ballot.

Which is funny, cause Cloud had tons of fan demand on his own even then.

 

[cmbsfm]

You do realize that Sakurai Bias is not a very good argument. Nor is sales. There are plenty of games who have sold exponential amounts and do not have a character. There have been a good few characters that got in despite their low sales. Sakurai bias was always shot down when people brought up Kid Icarus and Kirby so it should be shot down here too. No need for a double standard just because a leak, that is unlikely to start with, said so.

The ONLY character that has the luxury of having pure Sakurai acknowledgement is Geno. He wants him in the game, wants him PLAYABLE, and he's the only one he's ever mentioned besides, like, Takamaru.

No, seeing Steve in the game defeats the purpose of what I feel he's trying to accomplish with this game. Giving fans what they want the most. How many people do you see scurrying around to support Steve? Minuscule. Yet, he gets special treatment because Sakurai likes the game? Highly doubtful.

But we aren’t the only fans of the game. We have to keep in mind that kids love this game too. A character like Steve would resonate perfectly with them. Hell, I remember seeing a lot of mii verse posts asking for Steve. Putting Steve in would not defeat the purpose of Ultimate at all, as it would still be a fanservice pick. It’s fanservice for the younger side of the fanbase, and they deserve some love too.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Interesting. Hmm... I doubt it'd be a character trailer then. Probably an item. It could be Ashley's AT for all we know. Then again, it didn't get highlighted during the previous Smash Direct, so it'd probably be one which was noted specifically.

There are actually a few other blog posts missing that were skipped earlier on, but only 143 was fully skipped as a result of the direct delay, they managed to cover everything else.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I said it once and I'll say it again but chances are if Steve is in base game. We'll be getting Banjo as DLC. It's win-win. Simple as that.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I got a question. What part of Isabelle makes that jingling sound? I don't see any bells on her.

I thought since she's a dog she might have some kind of jingly collar, but I don't see one on her.

 

[Cena]

Okay, fine, I'll actually talk about something constructive, mysterious warning signal.

Is it cynical of me that if both get in, one will be DLC and one will be at launch? Because I feel like it could happen. And it if it does, the even bigger cynic in me thinks it'll be to milk the franchise's fanbase (Steve for the Minecraft kids, BK for people like me).

 

[Shroob]

You missed the point of that part. It wasn't a matter of which franchise would get a rep like it is with Minecraft but WHO from Final Fantasy would get that spot. Minecraft is hugely popular I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing support for Steve. If there were more characters and say, people wanted both Steve and a creeper then sure you got a point there. Enough support for multiple Minecraft characters could add up to more so of a point for those characters. Final Fantasy received support for characters from Final Fantasy I with Black Mage, to VII with Cloud, to XIII with Lightning. Steve isn't Minecraft. You didnt have multiple people voting for multiple characters in the ballot, most likely. You probably had the odd ones that voted for Steve. And that's probably it. That was the point of that one. Geno is big but when put up against the entire cast of Final Fantasy he dowsnt

So, I'm using what I have to make a judgement, and yeah you're right. Judging from the polls that we DO have and the information that we DO have then yes. Banjo is far more popular, as a character, in Smash Bros. Than Steve.

Read above. I cleared up my point.

You could say the same about K. Rool, or Simon for that matter.

This point isn't even a point. Zoomers don't even care about Smash. They're all about Fortnite.


I personally doubt either of them will get in. I don't see it happening. But I see Steve as less likely.

Simon's a classic, basically Nintendo character like Megaman was, and we can infer from fan polls that K.Rool was, if not, the top dog pick. We can't say that for Simon, which is why I believe that Simon was a Sakurai picks moreso than anything.


And that's a big rough, yo. My sister always is complaining about boys in her school talking about Smash when a Direct drops. Yeah, kids will jump to the newest hot game, but to say that Nintendo doesn't have a younger fanbase coming up when I see plenty of 15 and under members here is a bit wrong.

 

[osby]

I thought despite rumors that she was always planned to be added. Had nothing to do with the ballot. This time Ultimate is indeed following the ballot based on most of the newcomers.

There aren't much reasons why they lied about her.

I think she had a lot of votes at the start of the ballot but being easy to develop/Platinum Games being cooperative etc. made her the highest voted character that can realistically be the last DLC newcomer. Not necessarily THE highest voted character.

 

[Will]

I thought despite rumors that she was always planned to be added. Had nothing to do with the ballot. This time Ultimate is indeed following the ballot based on most of the newcomers.

That's what I meant by when she "won". Her purpose was to serve the ballot's closure, no matter if she won legitimately or not. Nintendo said she won, so we're sticking by that. Since we know she likely didn't actually win, they may never give us the answer about the results in-depth.

The poll was never rigged either. Why? Because we were never promised a newcomer specifically for Smash 4 from the ballot.

That is true, but it doesn't falsify the fact that they used her as the image of the winner of the ballot.

 

[Zinith]

*sigh* If Steve ends up being in the game, oh well. But if you haven't noticed, I don't take leaks as fact until proven otherwise...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I got a question. What part of Isabelle makes that jingling sound? I don't see any bells on her.

I thought since she's a dog she might have some kind of jingly collar, but I don't see one on her.

Cause Isabelle is a bell. Look at the shape of her head and the money bags in Animal Crossing

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I love how I went into a rabbit hole for a character a don't even feel anything for, and both of them I find incredibly unlikely. Debating over which one is more likelier than the other despite me feeling like they have the smallest glimmer of a chance. Smash Speculation does something to me I tell ya.

 

[SirCamp]

Banjo & Kazooie will definitely be in this game though. With mass fan demand and Phil Spencer talking about it, I'm sure we'll be seeing them eventually. They might just have to wait a bit.

I'm gonna hold you to this btw. ;P

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That is true, but it doesn't falsify the fact that they used her as the image of the winner of the ballot.

I found that a bit annoying myself. A bit of a white lie.

But considering we got an awesome character, I'm not all that bothered. Plus, one of my friends online is constantly compared to her, so...

 

[Deleted member]

My only safe locks were Inkling and Springman. Then E3 happened and suddenly ARMS content didn't seem too likely anymore. Also, I'd appreciate if anyone else replying doesn't count Verge's leaked characters as 'safe locks' because they're only considered locks because of a leaker

Inkling no doubt was gonna happen, I feel, totally. I was already getting ready for a new Smash game because Wii U didn't hold my interest, but when I thought of what would be a really good next franchise to add in the roster for the next Smash game, Splatoon just made the most sense.

Generic answer probs, but I'm calling Rex & Pyra a safe lock, but for a different reason. If anything, Sakurai definitely knows he HAS to include Xenoblade 2 content somewhere down the line of Smash Ultimate's lifecycle, because that game recently has been getting awards; biggest example being TGS2018. In fact, here's a picture of Sakurai at the awards show. He usually presents the "Game Designer" award every year.



I think in a way, whenever a Smash game is in development, the Japan Game Awards at least HAS to give Sakurai a feeling of what current Nintendo games are red hot at the moment, and if Xenoblade 2 got a "Award for Excellence," he at least knows what to keep in mind.

 

[Will]

You probably had the odd ones that voted for Steve. And that's probably it.

You probably think that there were only odd votes for Steve, but in fact we don't know the ballot results to determine that. wow deja vu

This is slightly unrelated, but I don't understand why people see Steve as the enigma and say "oh he's just a default skin he doesn't matter".
:ultrobin uh hello these people exist and serve the same purpose

 

[Radical Bones]

I got a question. What part of Isabelle makes that jingling sound? I don't see any bells on her.

I thought since she's a dog she might have some kind of jingly collar, but I don't see one on her.

They're on her hair tie. There's 2.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Xenoblade 2 was finished after the ballot and Sm4sh. If anything they'll surely be DLC.

Considering Sakurai's love for XenoBlade too. I can see him throwing Elma in as well.

 

[osby]

You probably think that there were only odd votes for Steve, but in fact we don't know the ballot results to determine that. wow deja vu

This is slightly unrelated, but I don't understand why people see Steve as the enigma and say "oh he's just a default skin he doesn't matter".
:ultrobin uh hello these people exist and serve the same purpose

Smashwon'tdothat.

 

[Will]

Man I'm so tired I forgot to quote an entire paragraph.

Enough support for multiple Minecraft characters could add up to more so of a point for those characters. Final Fantasy received support for characters from Final Fantasy I with Black Mage, to VII with Cloud, to XIII with Lightning. Steve isn't Minecraft. You didnt have multiple people voting for multiple characters in the ballot, most likely.

That would work. It honestly would. But

I'm pretty sure not every installment was called Final Fantasy VII.

 

[Calane]

So we're possibly getting Steve now? I'm not sure how I feel about that.

At this point, I'm just holding out hope that a Dragon Quest character (that's not Slime, please) actually makes it in. I don't want to sound selfish or anything, but I feel that DQ is probably the most important/influential series yet to be added to Smash, and not representing it in some form would leave me feeling quite disappointed. However, I'll be happy for fans of Minecraft if Steve makes it in. Last thing I want to do is bring others down for wanting a character I don't know much about.

 

[PsySmasher]

Inkling no doubt was gonna happen, I feel, totally. I was already getting ready for a new Smash game because Wii U didn't hold my interest, but when I thought of what would be a really good next franchise to add in the roster for the next Smash game, Splatoon just made the most sense.

Generic answer probs, but I'm calling Rex & Pyra a safe lock, but for a different reason. If anything, Sakurai definitely knows he HAS to include Xenoblade 2 content somewhere down the line of Smash Ultimate's lifecycle, because that game recently has been getting awards; biggest example being TGS2018. In fact, here's a picture of Sakurai at the awards show. He usually presents the "Game Designer" award every year.

View attachment 165837

I think in a way, whenever a Smash game is in development, the Japan Game Awards at least HAS to give Sakurai a feeling of what current Nintendo games are red hot at the moment, and if Xenoblade 2 got a "Award for Excellence," he at least knows what to keep in mind.

It also helps that he's openly praised Xenoblade 2 in the past. He dedicated a lot of his New Year's vacation to completing the game.

 

[Zinith]

"All leaks are bull**** until proven otherwise"

How many times must I say that?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Man I'm so tired I forgot to quote an entire paragraph.

That would work. It honestly would. But
View attachment 165838
I'm pretty sure not every installment was called Final Fantasy VII.

I don't think you're really even trying to make a valid point here. I'm going by Sakurai's statements. What are you trying to point out?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

"All leaks are bull**** until proven otherwise"

How many times must I say that?

Except VergeBen's.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

People seem to assume that I just don't like Steve or Minecraft. And, yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of the game or the character for that matter but I wouldn't be mad if he got in. I just find it unlikely. And maybe I do find Banjo slightly more likely, that doesn't mean I think either of them are getting in.

 

[Will]

I don't think you're really even trying to make a valid point here. I'm going by Sakurai's statements. What are you trying to point out?

Sakurai's statements about this supposed support from multiple platforms and characters that you hadn't cited.

People seem to assume that I just don't like Steve or Minecraft. And, yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of the game or the character for that matter but I wouldn't be mad if he got in. I just find it unlikely. And maybe I do find Banjo slightly more likely, that doesn't mean I think either of them are getting in.

That's very assuming to assume we assume you don't like things. It's just an argument dude. Arguments aren't always in ill will. Not a single person said you don't like it and that's why you're arguing against it.