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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Morbi

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Xenoblade was arguably the best RPG of that generation, and in my opinion, best RPG ever. From character arcs, to voice acting, to music, to the plot, it was just an absolute masterpiece. I don't forsee Shulk disappearing any time soon.
I do not believe it is overly likely, but at the same time, I feel as though he is among the most likely in general. I can see Xenoblade more or less becoming the next Fire Emblem, easily. But at the same time, not sure if Shulk needs to be there as a result.
 

MopedOfJustice

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I know it sounds crazy, and it might not even work in the context of Captain Toad or Smash, but I have an idea to get around Captain Toad's inability to jump without breaking canon or leaving Captain Toad with a major handicap.

In the Dragon Ball franchise, Mr. Satan/Hercule is infamous for his inability to fly or use any form of Ki. So, how do they balance that weakness out when he shows in games as a playable character? Well, given pretty much every single character can fly in Dragon Ball, they give Satan a jetpack so he's not put at a disadvantage.

So, I think we could do something for Captain Toad here. Rather than jumping naturally like the other characters, Captain Toad uses some kind of device that lets him simulate jumping. Of course, to balance out giving him a good ground game(which I agree with), make him like Little Mac with awkward jumps and weak aerials.

It lets him jump with forcing Sakurai to break canon to do so.
Yeah, since his backpack's weight is preventing him from jumping, all he has to do is wear a jetpack on his back to get over that obstacle.
...
...wait a second

I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on Captain Toad not being able to jump in his games. Characters like Snake, Link, Olimar, Villager, and Ness couldn't really jump in their original games, but that didn't mean they were excluded.
You're missing the part where CT only exists as a character because they needed a reason for Toad to not be able to jump

edit: I don't even
edit2: fixed
 
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?????????????

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I do not believe it is overly likely, but at the same time, I feel as though he is among the most likely in general. I can see Xenoblade more or less becoming the next Fire Emblem, easily. But at the same time, not sure if Shulk needs to be there as a result.
Couldn't you make this exact sentiment for Marth?
 

Bradli Wartooth

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I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on Captain Toad not being able to jump in his games. Characters like Snake, Link, Olimar, Villager, and Ness couldn't really jump in their original games, but that didn't mean they were excluded.
I think that discussion was created because, somewhere, it's officially stated that Captain Toad is incapable of jumping, whereas with the rest of them, it's just perceived that they can't jump because they don't really jump in their games beyond specific scenarios.
 

?????????????

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I think that discussion was created because, somewhere, it's officially stated that Captain Toad is incapable of jumping, whereas with the rest of them, it's just perceived that they can't jump because they don't really jump in their games beyond specific scenarios.
Imagine if Sonic LITERALLY sank like a rock when hitting the water in Smash.

Makes me wonder what they're gonna do with the Inklings.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on Captain Toad not being able to jump in his games. Characters like Snake, Link, Olimar, Villager, and Ness couldn't really jump in their original games, but that didn't mean they were excluded.
At least the Toad from Super Mario 3D World actually can jump, but his jumping skills were the worst of all the playable characters.
 

Morbi

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Couldn't you make this exact sentiment for Marth?
Well, yeah, and I do.

If Little Mac gets cut, I will LITERALLY throw a fit.

But I'm not worried about that. They NEVER cut unique characters representing their own series.

The only exceptions have been Snake and Ice Climbers, for VERY specific reasons.
Ditto. Little Mac is one of the most unique characters in the game despite the fact that everyone thought he would be hyper-generic. Can you even be hyper-generic or is that an oxymoron? Either way, I was upset about the removal of Mewtwo and confused by the removal of Wolf, but I definitely go crazy if Mac was cut.
 
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If Little Mac gets cut, I will LITERALLY throw a fit.

But I'm not worried about that. They NEVER cut unique characters representing their own series.

The only exceptions have been Snake and Ice Climbers, for VERY specific reasons.
Do not worry, I am sure that Nintendo will keep Little Mac for the rest of the time that the Smash Bros. series exists. He has became an iconic retro character at this point and I would throw a fit if he was gone as well. I love playing Little Mac, his smash attacks and jabs are so strong.
I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on Captain Toad not being able to jump in his games. Characters like Snake, Link, Olimar, Villager, and Ness couldn't really jump in their original games, but that didn't mean they were excluded.
I agree with you 100%. Captain Toad should have a jump, it should just be the lowest jump height out of anyone only by a little bit though. Captain Toad should be able to jump, because if he did not jump, than that would be really unfair for Captain Toad players. Captain Toad for Smash in Switch!
 
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ColietheGoalie

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Shulk is my favorite swordsman probably, so I'd rather he stayed. Plus, Xenoblade has some of the best video game music of this generation, period, so the more the merrier - 2¢
 

SuperSmashStephen

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I can honestly see Shulk just because, outside of Monado arts, he did not offer too much and a Xenoblade 2 character is about as likely as they come. I am not sure if people will look back on Nintendo's history and believe that Xenoblade was one of the most important games. Maybe they will. I do not know, but the series is already evolving as far as I can tell. I know people hate the "generic anime swordsmen" argument; however, it exists for a reason.
Okay. I see now. That’s plausible I suppose. I put Shulk in that “poster boy” category though. He’s the main protagonist of the first title of this growing series. I see what you’re getting at though. I don’t see why Xenoblade couldn’t have two reps though. Shulk and Rex & Pyra (as a unit). I think that’d be fair.
 
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I doubt Greninja goes. It's literally the most popular Pokemon in Japan. It really reminds me of when people thought Lucario would be cut in Smash 4 because it's not from Gen 1 so it didn't have the track record of being a series mainstay. Then again I main Greninja so I'm super biased.

Even aside from that, we know why other pokemon were cut over time. Pichu was a clone, Mewtwo seemed to fall to time constraints bc he had significant enough data in Brawl to be remade in PM, and the.Pokemon Trainer mons died to the no transformations in smash 4. I don't see a logical reason cut Greninja based on what we know. At worst I think he'd fall to time constraints, but I highly doubt that's going to be an issue
To add to this, I remember reading that Mewtwo would've made it into Brawl if Sonic wasn't rushed in due to fan demand. Characters are really only ever cut due to time constraints leaving the low priority characters out to dry, so predicting cuts should be based around which characters you think are low priority.
 

?????????????

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Honestly, I want Shulk, Rex, AND Elma in Smash Bros.

...I already said that yesterday, but...it's relevant again.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Captain Toad, huh? I've been wanting him since Smash 4-days, but I kind of expect him to pop in as an Assist, as I dunno where things might go when presented with his original gameplay character based solely on being jumpless - and even if forgoing that, I don't feel confident on would Captain Toad be appealing enough for Sakurai to work on as a character (with how he's been averse to Toad's inclusion so far). In fact, I think Sakurai's gonna use Captain Toad's jumplessness as a basis to his Assist Trophy-function most likely.



If he'd be playable though, I also agree that jumping is absolutely integral to a character in Smash, so Captain Toad would have to be doing it in some fashion - hence why I think he'd have low jumps (as reference to his stats in SMB2's) complementing his heavy-weight character due his backpack would work well - yet he'd also be a small fighter compared to big ones we have had by this point, providing something new to the cast.
 

Morbi

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I doubt Greninja goes. It's literally the most popular Pokemon in Japan. It really reminds me of when people thought Lucario would be cut in Smash 4 because it's not from Gen 1 so it didn't have the track record of being a series mainstay. Then again I main Greninja so I'm super biased.



To add to this, I remember reading that Mewtwo would've made it into Brawl if Sonic wasn't rushed in due to fan demand. Characters are really only ever cut due to time constraints leaving the low priority characters out to dry, so predicting cuts should be based around which characters you think are low priority.
That being said, if characters such as Mewtwo or Wolf were "low priority" it is nearly impossible to actually predict that. You would have to know the move-sets or their stance on modeling somehow. So while you are objectively correct, it just is not practical to think in those terms.
 

MSmariosonic

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Are we forgetting about proper game balance when discussing captain toad? He might be a 'fun' character to play, yet it would still be unfair to make him deliberately a bad character for tournaments.

I'd rather have the normal toad with perhaps some nods to captain toad in his moveset.
 

Curious Villager

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I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on Captain Toad not being able to jump in his games. Characters like Snake, Link, Olimar, Villager, and Ness couldn't really jump in their original games, but that didn't mean they were excluded.
Then you have characters like Sonic, Inklings and Charizard who can't swim and the little fanfic on how Ness and Lucas aquired their friends PK abilities even though it took one of them vigorous training in canon. Smash isn't shy of taking creative liberties. Just say that Toad lightened up his backpack a bit for Smash as someone else stated.
 
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Staarih

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I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on Captain Toad not being able to jump in his games. Characters like Snake, Link, Olimar, Villager, and Ness couldn't really jump in their original games, but that didn't mean they were excluded.
I think it's because it's been explicitly stated why he can't jump (because of the backpack?), but even so, cross-overs like this have to take liberties in order for balance to work, so Captain Toad should be able to jump somehow if in Smash. Even though a stretch, he jumps in Super Mario Maker for example, because otherwise the gameplay just wouldn't work.
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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I feel like people are putting way too much emphasis on Captain Toad not being able to jump in his games. Characters like Snake, Link, Olimar, Villager, and Ness couldn't really jump in their original games, but that didn't mean they were excluded.
Well in fairness, not being able to jump in a game =/= being explicitly told that they are physically unable to jump.

I'm going to be blunt; I have no idea why all the Captain Toad supporters are so dead-set on not letting Captain Toad jump when it's absolutely integral to how Smash plays. Literally JUST because that's how he worked in a gimmicky puzzle platformer?

I am exactly with ~ Valkyrie ~ ~ Valkyrie ~ on this one; him having lower jumps and heavyweight status should be more than enough to reference how his backpack makes him unable to jump.
 
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RodNutTakin

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on the subject of Xenoblade they better put Black Tar from X in this game's soundtrack, it's a guilty pleasure of mine
 
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Graizen

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All my life with Smash Brothers, my Dream was to see Agumon joining and battling Pikachu.
So i try my best to do all i can to help it happen someday.

Even so some people don't respect it, alot of Digimon fans think Digimon have 0 chances of doing it.
It is realy hard to find people to support it.

But i will not give up until the end!
You guys will see!
 

Megadoomer

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I think it's because it's been explicitly stated why he can't jump (because of the backpack?), but even so, cross-overs like this have to take liberties in order for balance to work, so Captain Toad should be able to jump somehow if in Smash. Even though a stretch, he jumps in Super Mario Maker, because otherwise the gameplay just wouldn't work.
They could just say in a trophy description that he packed lighter, if they even need to explain it at all. From what I recall, Charizard is supposed to outright die if his tail flame is doused, and yet he can swim and get hit by water attacks all day in Smash without any issues.
 

Staarih

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They could just say in a trophy description that he packed lighter, if they even need to explain it at all. From what I recall, Charizard is supposed to outright die if his tail flame is doused, and yet he can swim and get hit by water attacks all day in Smash without any issues.
Yeah, I'm totally agreeing with you on this, people tend to take Capt. Toad's "no jumping" thing a tad too seriously, there'll always be a way around it and not everything is 100% in character in Smash.
 

PF9

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What should be the ESRB rating? Should it maintain the E10 of SSB4 or go back to the T of Melee and Brawl?
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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What should be the ESRB rating? Should it maintain the E10 of SSB4 or go back to the T of Melee and Brawl?
It all depends on the contents that are implemented. Brawl's Teen rating was due to underwear exposure, along with how realistic Wario's gas looked when he uses Wario Waft. Smash 3DS / Wii U censored the underwear exposure, and made Wario's gas more cartoonish in nature.
 

Chron

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What should be the ESRB rating? Should it maintain the E10 of SSB4 or go back to the T of Melee and Brawl?
How did Smash 4 with Bayo get E10 and Melee/Brawl get Teen?
Smash Switch will probably be M17+ thanks to Mario.
 
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Morbi

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It all depends on the contents that are implemented. Brawl's Teen rating was due to underwear exposure, along with how realistic Wario's gas looked when he uses Wario Waft. Smash 3DS / Wii U censored the underwear exposure, and made Wario's gas more cartoonish in nature.
I would hate to break it to you (pun intended); however, flatulence is colorless. It is not yellow, you might be thinking of mustard gas.
 

domokl

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Seeing all of this Captain Toad talk made me think of something quite random, This Smash Trailer which just focuses on this gigantic battle between an army of Waddle Dees and an army of Toads. Eventually the fighting stops, and Bandana Dee and Captain Toad walk forward and start fighting, in a sort of double reveal. The trailer itself would be titled something like “Not Just Minions”. Pretty random, but it is one thing the two have in common.
 

Stratos

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A character with whip like the Simon Belmont will be an original choice in Super Smash Bros.
 
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PF9

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I'm watching the show Deception, which is about a magician who goes to work for the FBI.

Which gets me to thinking. Any Magician characters in video games that might get into Smash 5?
 

Morbi

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Seeing all of this Captain Toad talk made me think of something quite random, This Smash Trailer which just focuses on this gigantic battle between an army of Waddle Dees and an army of Toads. Eventually the fighting stops, and Bandana Dee and Captain Toad walk forward and start fighting, in a sort of double reveal. The trailer itself would be titled something like “Not Just Minions”. Pretty random, but it is one thing the two have in common.
I wanted both at one point or another; however, both revealed at the same time would probably be the most disappointing reveal in Smash history.
 

Nauzgo

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All my life with Smash Brothers, my Dream was to see Agumon joining and battling Pikachu.
So i try my best to do all i can to help it happen someday.

Even so some people don't respect it, alot of Digimon fans think Digimon have 0 chances of doing it.
It is realy hard to find people to support it.

But i will not give up until the end!
You guys will see!
Having Agumon in Smash would be great. But I think he's only got a chance if the newer Digimon titles get ported onto the Switch. Which I personally hope they will.
 

Rocket Raccoon

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Are we forgetting about proper game balance when discussing captain toad? He might be a 'fun' character to play, yet it would still be unfair to make him deliberately a bad character for tournaments.

I'd rather have the normal toad with perhaps some nods to captain toad in his moveset.
>Sakurai
>competitive

Choose one.
 
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