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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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MopedOfJustice

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If I had to bet on any new Mario character, it'd probably be Captain Toad (though not sure how that'd work with the whole not being able to jump thing).
Why do people think it's even possible to have Captain Toad? Do people forget that the only reason that he exists distinct from other Toads is that they specifically wanted him to not be able to jump? That's literally the main purpose of his design.
 

TheSmasher916

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My most wanted is basically Ganondorf. That would be the best newcomer the game could possibly add. Second place is Black Shadow. If you connect the dots something really obvious presents itself.
To be honest reworking Ganon's current moveset into Black Shadow I think would please the most people when it comes to this topic (because you can't please everybody). Either give Ganon his Hyrule Warrior appearance (which I doubt), or make him an amalgamation of his various appearances throughout the series. Not sure what his physical appearance would be like, maybe a blend between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess or an original one altogether, but he could use his trident, sword, energy tennis balls, maybe even hover and use other sorts of dark magic, who knows. They could even keep a few of his old moves like Flame Choke because they've become so synonymous with him as a character.

Then by giving Black Shadow Ganon's moveset for the most part, it'll make the heavier, evil Captain Falcon semi-clone actually Falcons rival which would logistically make much more sense, and would even allow for more F-Zero representation that quite frankly would likely not happen otherwise.
 

Freduardo

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Unfortunately I want so many Mario reps I’d be happy with a mario themed Smash spinoff that has 50 unique characters and I’d still have DLC ideas.

Top five:

5) Paper Mario
4) Waluigi
3) Toad/Toadette/Toadsworth
2) Daisy
1) Fawful.

And it was hard for me to make cuts to make that list only five.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Why do people think it's even possible to have Captain Toad? Do people forget that the only reason that he exists distinct from other Toads is that they specifically wanted him to not be able to jump? That's literally the main purpose of his design.
The goal is to create a character that has to overcome challenges in order to clear courses that are simple for the average platforming Toad

The means is not enabling him to jump.

If Smash can get Captain Toad's purpose right while removing the no-jump limit, he can definitely join
 

Stratos

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Many were hoping for the King K. Rool as a newcomer in Super Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS maybe as DLC character but he is not coming. Maybe this time in Super Smash Bros for Nintendo Switch to come. I hope for that.
 
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TheSmasher916

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Why do people think it's even possible to have Captain Toad? Do people forget that the only reason that he exists distinct from other Toads is that they specifically wanted him to not be able to jump? That's literally the main purpose of his design.
If Nintendo wasn't really pushing him, I'd say the same thing as it really doesn't make sense given his key characteristic is not being able to jump. However I think if they really wanted to do it, they'll find some sort of way.
 

Morbi

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The goal is to create a character that has to overcome challenges in order to clear courses that are simple for the average platforming Toad

The means is not enabling him to jump.

If Smash can get Captain Toad's purpose right while removing the no-jump limit, he can definitely join
Or even better, keep it. That is unique, not being able to jump. Obviously they would have to mitigate that with more grounded power and he would still obviously have a recovery move. Think reverse Yoshi. But quite frankly, that is definitely his best chance at being included. Sakurai wants different play-styles to change the game rather than altering the mechanics heavily. Captain Toad fits that bill BECAUSE he cannot jump.
 
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I wouldnt sleep an any mario newcomer at this point.

Pauline is from the super crazy game that got pushed to the moon by Nintendo.
Toad and Captain Toad have both been popular requests for a long time
Sakurai has repeatedly expressed interest in Geno, another long time popular request.
Paper Mario got his own game AND was in a Mario and Luigi game last gen/
Waluigi has yet another tennis game going for him, has been popular, and I would assume has at least been repeatedly considered if thay PotD is anything to go by
Daisy is popular I guess.

I've learned the best way to speculate is to expect all outcomes, and be prepared for the unexpectable.
:061:
 

WeirdChillFever

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Daisy has the exact same credentials as Waluigi minus memes maybe, don't sleep on one of them while expecting the other

Also, Petey Piranha is often deemed a "GameCube era" character but how he appears on the Switch this son of a petal is now in four console generations of games
 
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Rocket Raccoon

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I wouldnt sleep an any mario newcomer at this point.

Pauline is from the super crazy game that got pushed to the moon by Nintendo.
Toad and Captain Toad have both been popular requests for a long time
Sakurai has repeatedly expressed interest in Geno, another long time popular request.
Paper Mario got his own game AND was in a Mario and Luigi game last gen/
Waluigi has yet another tennis game going for him, has been popular, and I would assume has at least been repeatedly considered if thay PotD is anything to go by
Daisy is popular I guess.

I've learned the best way to speculate is to expect all outcomes, and be prepared for the unexpectable.
:061:
The best way is actually to expect nothing so you're always surprised.
 

Morbi

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I wouldnt sleep an any mario newcomer at this point.

Pauline is from the super crazy game that got pushed to the moon by Nintendo.
Toad and Captain Toad have both been popular requests for a long time
Sakurai has repeatedly expressed interest in Geno, another long time popular request.
Paper Mario got his own game AND was in a Mario and Luigi game last gen/
Waluigi has yet another tennis game going for him, has been popular, and I would assume has at least been repeatedly considered if thay PotD is anything to go by
Daisy is popular I guess.

I've learned the best way to speculate is to expect all outcomes, and be prepared for the unexpectable.
:061:
"Pushed to the moon." Hahaha ha ha hahaha... I see what you did there.

Maybe they will redesign the Captain Toad to be under Peach's dress? That would be fine representation.

Geno is more Square than Mario, in my opinion; however, I see your point.

Game and Watch needs another paper character to invalidate the only thing he offers, agreed.

Waluigi gonna win.

I love her, but I would be content with a character alternate on Peach, especially if Waluigi is coming with his pumped up kicks.

Yes. Which is why I expect a Nintendo Labo character. People will say it was just as unexpected as Wii Fit while I sip my hot coco nodding in disapproval.
 
D

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I don't think Captain Toad even has to jump to work in Smash. Obviously there are workarounds, like 'jumping' by creating platforms or by being carried/propelled by something else, but he still doesn't necessarily have to be able to jump to work. He could just have a good recovery move(s) to make it back on the stage, a great ground game, and a high weight. Maybe a fast fall speed too. He could just use aerials when launched, and maybe he wouldn't enter helpless after his up special. A quirky character like that would be unique and could still pan out if done right.
 

AadmM

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I generally don't care for Toad as a character, but I would be down for Captain Toad. Just the idea of a jumpless character is itself pretty enticing.

If they forego that, forget about it.
 

Ryu_Ken

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If Captain Toad gets in by some means, it could be one of two things:
1) Captain Toad is an alternate costume for the normal Toad on the roster
2) Captain Toad is an assist trophy

I don't know if I can picture the DLC characters from Sm4sh returning as veterans or unlockables, but if I were to choose two of them to be cut, it would probably be Bayonetta and Cloud. They're the Snake and Wolf of Sm4sh in my opinion, and by that I mean they're there to surprise fans once and to not really stick around.

What do you guys think the next ESRB/PEGI/etc. rating for this game will be? It seems like it'll probably be E10+ again considering we're definitely gonna get a Splatoon rep, but who knows what surprises Daddy Sakurai is cooking up in that pot?
 

RodNutTakin

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Anyone else agree that this could be the case for Smash Switch regarding port/new game status?
 

Bowserlick

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Zelda with Champion Powers. Spirit Forms appear during moves.

B Mipha's Grace: A counter that cancels damage from the delivered attack and makes a shield (similar looking to Nayru's Love) with hit points totaling half of the negated damage. Cannot be used again until broken.

Down B Urbosa's Fury: Same as the Phantom except with Urbosa's spirit

Up B Revali's Gale: Same as Farore's Wind; spirit of Revali appears near Zelda

Side B Daruk's Protection: Navigated Orange ball similar to Din's Fire, except when activated appears to be a smaller shape of Daruk's magic polygon shield. Acts as a Mine. Explodes when touched. Can be exploded with Side B.
 
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AwesomeAussie27

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What I would like is for at least Toad in any form (the original or Captain) to be playable.

Toads are definitely very iconic to Mario (Sticker Star and Color Splash aside), just that he's not convinced by something. Not sure what it is that Sakurai is looking for before he adds a Toad. He's kind of overdue.
 

Mega Bidoof

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The best way is actually to expect nothing so you're always surprised.
I mainly think it’d be weird to have regular Toad as a move for Peach, but Captain Toad as a character.

This is a much more extreme example, but it’d be like having Pikachu as a pokeball summon while Detective Pikachu is playable. Maybe a more reasonable example is having one of the Squid Sisters or the Off the Hook members playable while having Inkling be an assist.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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Jumping is integral to Smash, just as moving, attacking, shielding, and dodging are. If a character like Captain Toad cannot jump in their own games, then they are either going to be made to jump or it'll be seen as too big a hurdle to jump over (no pun intended). You simply cannot have a character who can't jump; no matter how unique of an idea it may seem, it'll make Captain Toad a bigger joke character than Pichu because his inability to jump gives him a worse recovery by default, as well as being coupled with his **** reach. Maybe you all should stop asking yourselves if they could and instead ask yourselves if they should.

I'm in the camp that believes Sakurai will simply forego Captain Toad's inability to jump for the sake of how Smash works. Not that I'd care either way. I'd MUCH rather see regular Toad make the cut than Captain Toad.
 
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Bradli Wartooth

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I genuinely hope if Captain Toad gets added, he is not jumpless. Competitively, the character would be unusable. In casual play, could you imagine being stuck on the stage while everyone else can chase the smash ball around the stage, or get the items on the platforms? Yeah he could have a recovery move that doesn't leave him in free fall, but the predictability and commitment that would come with an ability like that would most likely not be good. Not being able to jump would be the single largest handicap in the entire game.
 

Bowserlick

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Toad over Captain Toad as playable for me.

If Captain Toad is playable:
1. Alt of Toad
2. Cannot jump (if he is not an alt & does not have this trait, might as well have Toad instead)
 

Morbi

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I genuinely hope if Captain Toad gets added, he is not jumpless. Competitively, the character would be unusable. In casual play, could you imagine being stuck on the stage while everyone else can chase the smash ball around the stage, or get the items on the platforms? Yeah he could have a recovery move that doesn't leave him in free fall, but the predictability and commitment that would come with an ability like that would most likely not be good. Not being able to jump would be the single largest handicap in the entire game.
To be fair, Little Mac more or less has to deal with that regardless. It would probably be worse with Toad, but there is technically a precedent.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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To be fair, Little Mac more or less has to deal with that regardless. It would probably be worse with Toad, but there is technically a precedent.
Do you honestly want a character with a worse recovery than Little Mac? And little Mac still does have jumps to mix up his recovery a bit if he's close enough to the stage. You're asking for a character who does what Mac does but even worse.
 
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Morbi

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Zelda with Champion Powers. Spirit Forms appear during moves.

B Mipha's Grace: A counter that cancels damage from the delivered attack and makes a shield (similar looking to Nayru's Love) with hit points totaling half of the negated damage. Cannot be used again until broken.

Down B Urbosa's Fury: Same as the Phantom except with Urbosa's spirit

Up B Revali's Gale: Same as Farore's Wind; spirit of Revali appears near Zelda

Side B Daruk's Protection: Navigated Orange ball similar to Din's Fire, except when activated appears to be a smaller shape of Daruk's magic polygon shield. Acts as a Mine. Explodes when touched. Can be exploded with Side B.
I love this idea, a lot. If Zelda does get a Breath of the Wild costume, they will likely have to change her model. And if they do that, why not update her play-style as well? This obviously fits the bill. I love Nayru's Love, Din's Fire and Farore's Wind; however, it is about time we moved on from that.
 

Rocket Raccoon

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I mainly think it’d be weird to have regular Toad as a move for Peach, but Captain Toad as a character.

This is a much more extreme example, but it’d be like having Pikachu as a pokeball summon while Detective Pikachu is playable. Maybe a more reasonable example is having one of the Squid Sisters or the Off the Hook members playable while having Inkling be an assist.
You mean like Duck Hunt Dog as a character and on the Duck Hunt stage?
 

Jubileus57

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If I had to bet, I'd go with Captain Toad as an Assist Trophy. I dunno it just feels far more credible that him being playable.
Then again I could be wrong.
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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To be fair, Little Mac more or less has to deal with that regardless. It would probably be worse with Toad, but there is technically a precedent.
Little Mac can at least jump to Battlefield's platforms.

If Captain Toad is unable to jump, he it is literally impossible for him to reach those platforms unless he is knocked upward.

Seriously, why does this need to be discussed? It is a terrible, terrible idea.
 

Freduardo

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Captain Toad’s B Up that doesn’t need a jump:

He throws a grappling hook.

Then he can walk/run up the sides of surfaces at double speeds, or climb the rope at 1x speed (if it’s a floating platform without a side)
 
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Chron

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Captain Toad’s B Up that doesn’t need a jump:

He throws a grappling hook.

Then he can walk up the sides of surfaces at double speeds, or climb the rope at 1x speed (if it’s a floating platform without a side)
I had this in my Captain Toad moveset also.
 

Bowserlick

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Jumpless Captain Toad

Side B Minecart: Captain rides in a Minecart. You create the tracks. Tracks can be created in the air, ground and both. You can create hills and even turn the track upside down in a circle (but then Toad and the cart would fall off). At the end of the track, the cart goes speeding off and the Captain falls. When the tracks are being made they can create a ceiling that characters cannot jump through.

Down B Turnip Cannon: Takes out a cannon. Can aim in any direction and fire a large turnip.

Jump button: Captain Toad starts to swing a grappling hook on a rope. In this mode he can walk. He can also throw his hook into the air in any direction similar to the Cannon. If Captain is in the air, his aerial moves consist throwing out his hook.
 
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Captain Toad would never be added if they cant jump. It's just not happening lol.

But I wouldnt say that means Captain Toad is impossible. If Sakurai goes "wow Captain Toad is cool" Captaian Toad will be playable. He'll just make up something like "he packed light," or something for the people who worry about canon stuff in a non-canon fanfic fighter.

His jump would still be bad, but so would regular toad's
EDIT this wasnt targeted at the point above, for the record
:061:
 
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Bradli Wartooth

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Captain Toad’s B Up that doesn’t need a jump:

He throws a grappling hook.

Then he can walk up the sides of surfaces at double speeds, or climb the rope at 1x speed (if it’s a floating platform without a side)
And then immediately gets bodied because he's left in a very vulnerable state. Even the lowest level players could take advantage of that. Not to mention they removed tether recoveries as primary recoveries as a whole in SSB4. I know there's still tether recoveries in the game, but they aren't the primary option for any character. I know we have pointed out that design philosophies change, but that change seems highly intended and I don't imagine it's going to change.
 

Morbi

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Do you honestly want a character with a worse recovery than Little Mac? And little Mac still does have jumps to mix up his recovery a bit if he's close enough to the stage. You're asking for a character who does what Mac does but even worse.
Little Mac can at least jump to Battlefield's platforms.

If Captain Toad is unable to jump, he it is literally impossible for him to reach those platforms unless he is knocked upward.

Seriously, why does this need to be discussed? It is a terrible, terrible idea.
I honestly want it as more of a gimmick than anything. It is not as though I genuinely feel as though the character would be any good. Just a "for fun" pick which is more or less what the game is about. I personally play on Omega stages anyhow, so it would not be a big deal to me personally. I doubt it would even happen, but there is no denying it would be... different.
 
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