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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Tree Gelbman

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That's just completely ignoring my point though where you said Banjo & Kazooie didn't matter to Microsoft and I said it didn't matter what they cared about. That's all I'm saying.
To a degree? Yes it matters what Microsoft cares about. If they don't want Banjo in Smash.

Then they don't want Banjo in Smash.

I also didn't ignore your point what so ever.

I pointed out that you saying Sakurai would want Banjo is all just speculation.
 

Enchess

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Cactaur for smash!

Edit:Sabin is best FFVI character tho
I want to argue, because obviously Celes, but Sabin was the character I always made sure to keep in my party whenever possible and he was more interesting than most of the cast, so consider your opinion respected.
 

Exalt4747

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I want to argue, because obviously Celes, but Sabin was the character I always made sure to keep in my party whenever possible and he was more interesting than most of the cast, so consider your opinion respected.
I wish his inputs weren't so darn finicky.
 
D

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I don’t understand why anyone would want a new rep from the same third party series, unless it’s an echo fighter like shadow or ken. Give me Sora over a new final fantasy character or Phoenix Wright over a new mega man character.
I dunno man, sometimes people are fans of that 3rd Party series and would like to play as their favorite character that isn't the MC from the most well-known game(s).
I'm sure most FF would like a non-FFVII character, that many CV fans would appreciate Alucard and that the Metal Gear fans want only one thing and it's Revolver Ocelot.
@Shishoe I actually haven't heard of Linebeck. Mostly because i missed out on a lot of handheld LoZ titles.
PH is not a game I would recommend despite how much I like it but Linebeck is certainly worth looking into, he's an extremely fun and I'n still salty they skipped him over in favor of another Zelda in HW.
I thought I was the only one who knew about Celes being the mc! A shame Dissidia didn't know that...
I imagine the things people who believe Terra is the protagonist know about FFVI can be summed up as the opening scene, "not a thief, I'm a treasure hunter" and the crazy clown but I doubt any of them know about Leo's death, The World of Ruin and Celes's whole story arc.
Like, even during the World of Balance, Terra can hardly be called a main character, she gets sidelined so often during it and the story even literally splits the parties so there really isn't one. Celes is the one who brings the group all back together in the second half and acts as the defacto protagonist and everyone but her, Sabin and Setzer. Which means Terra is a completely optional party member.

Though I can understand why they went with Terra for Dissidia. Iirc, the reasoning was that she was the one the closest to Kefka and he was obviously going to be the villain for that game. Smash wouldn't have that issue because I doubt we would see Kefka and it's not like it's story oriented.
 

?????????????

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I don’t understand why anyone would want a new rep from the same third party series, unless it’s an echo fighter like shadow or ken. Give me Sora over a new final fantasy character or Phoenix Wright over a new mega man character.
I mostly agree, but have one solitary exception in Sonic. Tails is such a gaming icon to me, it outdoes any other new SEGA character.

Otherwise, yeah. I agree. But that’s just me.
 

Exalt4747

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Either way, VI is one of the best games to pull from IMO. I need to play more of it myself but it's one of the most beloved entries and has characters who would be very different from Cloud.
 

Q-Long

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If I had to choose another MGS character, Ocelot would be cool, but I would prefer Liquid Snake, Raiden, or if we want to get insane, Senator Armstrong lol.

It would be hilarious if Armstrong was in.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Oh I have no doubt he could make it work, I just don’t think he should. At least over Banjo.
Why can't we have both? The max amount of unique Characters for Third parties seem to be 2. Konami has Snake and Simon, SEGA has Sonic and Bayonetta, And Capcom has Mega Man and Ryu. I don't think it's really out of the question to have 2 Microsoft reps, and I'm pretty sure the two most Likely are Steve and Banjo Kazooie
 

Enchess

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Not really, because FF6 doesn't have a single protagonist. Most of your party is considered the protagonist, if I'm remembering correctly.
In theory yes, but not in practice. Gaur and Mog for example have just about nothing to do with the main plot. Terra is important early game, but fades into the background and literally becomes optional by the end. Celes on the other hand is consistently important to the story throughout, is always mandatory, and is front-and-center in many of the most iconic scenes (the Opera, the cliff, etc). She also has much better developed interactions with the rest of her party (especially Locke) than most of the others.

Really you could cut the playable characters down to Celes, Terra, Locke, Sabin, Edgar, and Setzer with almost no loss. Among those, Celes and Locke stay consistent in their importance while the others are important for sections of the game but not the whole game.
 

MasterOfKnees

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To a degree? Yes it matters what Microsoft cares about. If they don't want Banjo in Smash.

Then they don't want Banjo in Smash.

I also didn't ignore your point what so ever.

I pointed out that you saying Sakurai would want Banjo is all just speculation.
To be fair Phil Spencer has literally said he'd like to have Banjo in Smash, I'm sure Banjo wouldn't be the top priority from Microsoft's point of view, but if Sakurai came to them and asked for him specifically they're not going to say "no, we only want Steve in".

When it comes to a Microsoft rep it's seemingly entirely up to what Sakurai wants, they'll want any good PR they can get.
 
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Imadethistoseealeak

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I mostly agree, but have one solitary exception in Sonic. Tails is such a gaming icon to me, it outdoes any other new SEGA character.

Otherwise, yeah. I agree. But that’s just me.
Yea and as much as I despise the idea of any 3rd party getting more than one unique rep, I totally see Sonic being the first, and it happening in this game (base or dlc).

Honestly not sure if it would be Tails or an Isabelle-fied Shadow.
 

Murlough

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I think you missed the point of "100% biased".
Totodile is my favorite Pokemon and Oricorio is also in my Top 6

No, it's not, there are literally more Pokemon in there lol

I don't care about XC2 and I hate Pyra's design.
I'd rather have my favorite villain from the series. And I didn't go "nope" considering I did add a new XC character

The Wonderful 101 didn't mash A to save the Earth to hear this ****

First, that's not an actual rule.
Second, I just felt like Sonic needed something in this 3rd Party galore and Tails is the obvious first pick.

Revolver Ocelot

I'd rather have my main and someone who isn't another shotoclone

Because Cloud is all the "recognizability" FF needs, I want more classic FF. Black Mage is there due to being from the very first game. And Celes is, again, the ****ing FFVI protagonist. Not Terra like someone believe. I mean, did people actually play it? I always see people talking about Kefka and how FFVI is the best of the franchise but they always act as if Terra was the maim character.

The whole roster is subjective

All the characters after Tink are Zelda characters... Do you legit not know Linebeck, Impa and Marin?

Damnit, I could swear you were going to complain about no Sovereign or Imperial.

>SotN aged poorly
The hell, I've been playing the game for the first time these past few weeks and it has aged like fine wine. The game is so well polished and fun that it legit gives Super Metroid a run for its money imo.
Never heard of them nope. Well other than Impa. I just didn’t recognize her.
 

Pakky

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I mostly agree, but have one solitary exception in Sonic. Tails is such a gaming icon to me, it outdoes any other new SEGA character.

Otherwise, yeah. I agree. But that’s just me.
For me its Tails and Eggman.

I never realized how big Eggman is but he's BIG



 

Jedisupersonic

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Not only that, but anyone who watched Super knew #17 was going to eventually be playable in FighterZ. It's not exactly a bold prediction.
Especially with the huge amount of bias he got from Toei in the arc he showed back up in.

Toyotaro seems to have given more of that bias to Roshi in the manga considering he challenged Jiren and didn't instantly get ko'd lol.
 

monadoboy

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I don’t understand why anyone would want a new rep from the same third party series, unless it’s an echo fighter like shadow or ken. Give me Sora over a new final fantasy character or Phoenix Wright over a new mega man character.
Final Fantasy has ginormous cast with super unique characters. I would love Zidane in Smash, or someone from Chrystal Chronicles like a Selkie or something. I'd prefer Zidane over Sora myself
 
D

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I dunno man, sometimes people are fans of that 3rd Party series and would like to play as their favorite character that isn't the MC from the most well-known game(s).
I'm sure most FF would like a non-FFVII character, that many CV fans would appreciate Alucard and that the Metal Gear fans want only one thing and it's Revolver Ocelot.

PH is not a game I would recommend despite how much I like it but Linebeck is certainly worth looking into, he's an extremely fun and I'n still salty they skipped him over in favor of another Zelda in HW.

I imagine the things people who believe Terra is the protagonist know about FFVI can be summed up as the opening scene, "not a thief, I'm a treasure hunter" and the crazy clown but I doubt any of them know about Leo's death, The World of Ruin and Celes's whole story arc.
Like, even during the World of Balance, Terra can hardly be called a main character, she gets sidelined so often during it and the story even literally splits the parties so there really isn't one. Celes is the one who brings the group all back together in the second half and acts as the defacto protagonist and everyone but her, Sabin and Setzer. Which means Terra is a completely optional party member.

Though I can understand why they went with Terra for Dissidia. Iirc, the reasoning was that she was the one the closest to Kefka and he was obviously going to be the villain for that game. Smash wouldn't have that issue because I doubt we would see Kefka and it's not like it's story oriented.
You know what I didn't know about FF VI until years later? Apparently Sabin's 'Suplex' is a 1-hit KO on the Phantom Train. I never knew that! I just thought, since I had done so much damage to it already, that it just happened to be the last bit of damage needed when I KO'd it using Suplex lol
 

Xgears

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If Steve actually makes it, then anyone from a popular game in a console can make it. That would be a huge bummer and most people I know wouldn't touch the game if that happened.
 

Enchess

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Have we considered Verg's Square rep may be from Octopath? I can see the games success prompting an effort to get a character in (especially with how much Nintendo pushed the game itself). Obviously it probably wouldn't finish in time for base, but maybe early planning has started for DLC. Might explain why only 1/3 sources have heard of this.

Also, as a side note if Octopath ever was to make it, it'd be Primrose or Olberic. They are by far the most pushed characters as well as the most popular in West and Japan respectively last I saw.

Tressa is best main though
 

tveye

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Especially with the huge amount of bias he got from Toei in the arc he showed back up in.

Toyotaro seems to have given more of that bias to Roshi in the manga considering he challenged Jiren and didn't instantly get ko'd lol.
Yeah, and people have also been predicting playable Roshi as well. I can see it happening.
 

Jedisupersonic

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Have we considered Verg's Square rep may be from Octopath? I can see the games success prompting an effort to get a character in (especially with how much Nintendo pushed the game itself). Obviously it probably wouldn't finish in time for base, but maybe early planning has started for DLC. Might explain why only 1/3 sources have heard of this.

Also, as a side note if Octopath ever was to make it, it'd be Primrose or Olberic. They are by far the most pushed characters as well as the most popular in West and Japan respectively last I saw.

Tressa is best main though
I really don't see Octopath getting something before Geno, other FF characters, a DQ character, Bravely Default or even something from Chrono Trigger tbh.
 
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lightdrago

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If Steve actually makes it, then anyone from a popular game in a console can make it. That would be a huge bummer and most people I know wouldn't touch the game if that happened.
They seriously wouldn't buy Smash, with over 70 characters to try out and main, cause one character they didn't like got in? Seems awfully petty to me.
 

Xgears

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I don’t understand why anyone would want a new rep from the same third party series, unless it’s an echo fighter like shadow or ken. Give me Sora over a new final fantasy character or Phoenix Wright over a new mega man character.
Well I don't understand people who want a lawyer over characters that actually have interesting abilities that could work well in a fight, plus some characters from the same franchise are probably better too.
 

Jedisupersonic

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If Steve actually makes it, then anyone from a popular game in a console can make it. That would be a huge bummer and most people I know wouldn't touch the game if that happened.
Then I guess they aren't actually fans of Smash then.
 

Moydow

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Not really, because FF6 doesn't have a single protagonist. Most of your party is considered the protagonist, if I'm remembering correctly.
Pretty much that. The story as a whole was intended to be written in such a way that no one character would be able to be clearly defined as the "protagonist"; I've even heard people argue that Kefka is the protagonist on the basis that he's the driving force of the plot (the protagonist doesn't have to be the hero, after all). Whether or not the writers actually achieved their goal is clearly up for debate; I'd lean more towards Celes than Terra, of the two, since Celes has more, and more significant, scenes throughout the overall plot. Plus you have characters like Gau or Mog who are pretty redundant in terms of the overall plot (if I remember correctly Mog is completely optional anyway).
 

Ramen Tengoku

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If Steve actually makes it, then anyone from a popular game in a console can make it. That would be a huge bummer and most people I know wouldn't touch the game if that happened.
Really? Just for one Character.... I'm not a fan of Bayonetta's Inclusion, But that doesn't mean I'm not getting the game. Also, remember that Steve is very popular...
 
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Enchess

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I really don't see Octopath getting something before Geno, another FF characters, a DQ character, Bravely Default or even something from Chrono Trigger tbh.
If we didn't know ballot is being used, I couldn't imagine Geno getting in before Octopath and would consider Bravely and Chrono on similar footing.

I still don't think we'll have 2 unique from a third party franchise, so I'd expect Octopath before FF.

DQ definitely has a better shot though. Without a doubt.
 

Jedisupersonic

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Pretty much that. The story as a whole was intended to be written in such a way that no one character would be able to be clearly defined as the "protagonist"; I've even heard people argue that Kefka is the protagonist on the basis that he's the driving force of the plot (the protagonist doesn't have to be the hero, after all). Whether or not the writers actually achieved their goal is clearly up for debate; I'd lean more towards Celes than Terra, of the two, since Celes has more, and more significant, scenes throughout the overall plot. Plus you have characters like Gau or Mog who are pretty redundant in terms of the overall plot (if I remember correctly Mog is completely optional anyway).
My favorite set of characters have minor bits in the actual plot (Shadow & Relm) but their whole relation with each other is so interesting if you actually go out of your way to do it.

Heck even Gau and Mog who you mentioned have tragic circimstances, you feel for all of FF6's cast if you do everything in the game.
 

Moydow

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You know what I didn't know about FF VI until years later? Apparently Sabin's 'Suplex' is a 1-hit KO on the Phantom Train. I never knew that! I just thought, since I had done so much damage to it already, that it just happened to be the last bit of damage needed when I KO'd it using Suplex lol
Nah, the suplex on the train is just a meme, unfortunately. Phoenix Downs are a one-hit KO, though, since the Phantom Train is classed as undead.
 

Jedisupersonic

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Nah, the suplex on the train is just a meme, unfortunately. Phoenix Downs are a one-hit KO, though, since the Phantom Train is classed as undead.
I swear FF's try to throw in that random undead boss just to see if you think to throw a Phoenix Down at it.

Like the fake President in FF8.
 

SonicMario

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I don’t understand why anyone would want a new rep from the same third party series, unless it’s an echo fighter like shadow or ken. Give me Sora over a new final fantasy character or Phoenix Wright over a new mega man character.
Because some of those like and/or have wanted characters like that even though until Richter was announced playable in Ultimate was thought to be impossible? xP

My most wanted is Tails, I just wouldn't be satisfied on the Sonic side of things if outside of Sonic there was just Shadow and not Sonic's Luigi in there. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me on the game as a whole. But I'd want a little more respectability. I understand both Richter and looks likely Ken since Richter is Japan's Belmont while Ken is like... the original echo fighter. Yes so far it's just echo fighters, but at this point it seems clear to me that's just moving the goal posts from "3rd Party franchises can't get more then one rep!" to "Ok ok, so they can. But they can only be echoes!"

If Nintendo and Sega have negotiated for Shadow as an echo fighter, I'd hope they have the sense to at the same time inquire about having Mario & Luigi Vs. Sonic & Tails, two of the most iconic duos in gaming, be a possible team match at least eventually. Not to mention Tails is still another of the possible Smash 4 Mii Costumes (I know not all Mii Costumes are being upgraded to playable characters and some were just upgraded to assists if they weren't that already like Knuckles, but the same case goes for Shadow. Not all the missing Assists are going to be playable either) being upgraded if that continues into the DLC period.
 
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