Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

You can't just say Inkling doesn't count. This is like how music theory people go "Echoes don't count" despite Chrom getting a theme

Echoes don't count though. Chrom getting one doesn't debunk the theory when the franchise had to get one eventually. It doesn't change the fact that Ridley, Inkling, Simon, K. Rool, AND Isabelle (every unique newcomer) have gotten songs coinciding with their reveals, and that Pokémon hasn't had a song yet despite Incineroar being a lock.

These attempts to undermine the Music Theory are pretty bad, not gonna lie.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well crap figured I made some errors there...Embarrass

 

[Opossum]

Why did you put Daisy on the N64, Isaac on the Gamecube and Incineroar on the Wii U when they blatantly didn't come from there?

Not to mention Richter somehow not counting when every other echo is counted.

 

[HyruleHero]

NES: Ridley, Simon(Richter)
SNES: King K. Rool, Geno
N64: Daisy, Skull Kid
Gamecube: Dark Samus, Isaac
3DS: Chrom, Isabelle
Wii U: Inkling, Incineroar

It finally all adds up!

Arcade: Ken Masters, Frogger (lol)
NES: ,
SNES: ,
N64: , Banjo and Kazooie

GBA: Isaac, (Sora, FF character I dunno maybe Andy from advance wars)
Gamecube: , Lloyd Irving
3DS: , Isabelle
Wii U: , Incineroar

Hard to choose characters from the generations, we're also missing DS, Wii and Gameboy ( and colour).

 

[Kaeltor]

Yeah,

I'm especially concerned as that would basically deconfirm Geno right there.

I went and read the tweets from leaky pandy and they specifically said it would be a character from a game that would be nominated for an award for "best in genre". So if the leak is true (which I'm doubtful), then there's no way it's Geno. So he's still possible.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I went and read the tweets from leaky pandy and they specifically said it would be a character from a game that would be nominated for an award for "best in genre". So if the leak is true (which I'm doubtful), then there's no way it's Geno. So he's still possible.

That's the problem, lol. What they are saying is that the SE character would be from Dragon Quest

 

[Shadowwolflink]

Are people still talking musoc they want to see added to Smash? I'm going to throw some in:

- A Pokemon Snap Medley
- The Western styled Luigi's Mansion theme from Luigi's introduction in Subspace (it always bothered be that this short clip was all we ever heard of it)
- The Johto Bike theme
- The Kalos Bike theme
- Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 minigame medley

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Echoes don't count though. Chrom getting one doesn't debunk the theory when the franchise had to get one eventually. It doesn't change the fact that Ridley, Inkling, Simon, K. Rool, AND Isabelle (every unique newcomer) have gotten songs coinciding with their reveals, and that Pokémon hasn't had a song yet despite Incineroar being a lock.

These attempts to undermine the Music Theory are pretty bad, not gonna lie.

So you're telling me it's just a coincidence Fire Emblem got a remix RIGHT after Bloody Tears and Gangplank Galleon following the direct where we saw 3 newcomers from franchises who hadn't received a newcomer? Nope, can't buy it, screams off "Nuh uh that doesn't count because I said so". Echoes can't not count but have Chrom get a remix with 'coincidental' timing. Oh, and if anyone wants to spin it as "Well the remix isn't something that fits Chrom" reminder Ridley's part of the music theory is Brinstar Depths, which isn't an area Ridley is associated with

 

[Zinith]

Yoshi new final smash confirmed

Ya having fun with that image I provided?

 

[Deleted member]

Who? ×2

You don't know Monika? But Monika knows you....

....and cares for you deeply.....

 

[Chumpodile]

Ya having fun with that image I provided?

It's consuming me

 

[Shroob]

I mean, is anyone really surprised that the 2nd SE rep could be Dragon Quest?


We always gush about how Simon is "Basically Nintendo" like Megaman due to his early and rich history with Nintendo.


Dragon Quest goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back too and is arguably one of the most successful Famicon RPGs, period, only rivaled by Final Fantasy.

 

[Zinith]

It's consuming me

Yeah, that's what happened to my soul after a while. It now belongs to my boi

 

[Chumpodile]

Nintendo absolutely sleeping on the potential of retro tv

 

[Opossum]

So you're telling me it's just a coincidence Fire Emblem got a remix RIGHT after Bloody Tears and Gangplank Galleon following the direct where we saw 3 newcomers from franchises who hadn't received a newcomer? Nope, can't buy it, screams off "Nuh uh that doesn't count because I said so". Echoes can't not count but have Chrom get a remix with 'coincidental' timing. Oh, and if anyone wants to spin it as "Well the remix isn't something that fits Chrom" reminder Ridley's part of the music theory is Brinstar Depths, which isn't an area Ridley is associated with

I don't know how much clearer I can be here, but I'll try.

Unique newcomers = Relevant to the theory
Echoes = Irrelevant to the theory

Unique newcomer getting music soon afterward = good for theory
Echo getting music soon afterward =/= bad for theory


It's not rocket science, Gwen.

 

[Shroob]

I don't know how much clearer I can be here, but I'll try.

Unique newcomers = Relevant to the theory
Echoes = Irrelevant to the theory

Unique newcomer getting music soon afterward = good for theory
Echo getting music soon afterward =/= bad for theory


It's not rocket science, Gwen.

I feel like the hang up comes because the FE track came right after Chrom. That's what gets people.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will bring up that right after Donkey Kong,'s music, we got a Fire Emblem track, which could easily be tied to Chrom.

Though I think that helps music theory more then it hurts it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I mean, is anyone really surprised that the 2nd SE rep could be Dragon Quest?


We always gush about how Simon is "Basically Nintendo" like Megaman due to his early and rich history with Nintendo.


Dragon Quest goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back too and is arguably one of the most successful Famicon RPGs, period, only rivaled by Final Fantasy.

I'm not. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if we get Erdrick or a "Hero" whose costumes are the different heroes of the series (Erdrick, DQ11 hero, etc.).

Anybody who thinks Geno is more likely than a Dragon Quest character is severely underestimating the strength of the series and it's ties with Nintendo. It is legitimately the best-selling Japanese game series not yet represented in Smash Bros, and it has so much going for it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't know how much clearer I can be here, but I'll try.

Unique newcomers = Relevant to the theory
Echoes = Irrelevant to the theory

Unique newcomer getting music soon afterward = good for theory
Echo getting music soon afterward =/= bad for theory


It's not rocket science, Gwen.

It isn't irrelevant, a Fire Emblem remix was highlighted after a Fire Emblem newcomer appeared. You literally cannot shrug off something that breaks this as a mere coincidence. This is just Smash fans desperately clinging on to patterns they made up and want to be right. YOU CANNOT WRITE IT OFF AS A COINCIDENCE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T BENEFIT YOUR IDEA. Can't be clearer than that

 

[Deleted member]

Echoes don't count though. Chrom getting one doesn't debunk the theory when the franchise had to get one eventually. It doesn't change the fact that Ridley, Inkling, Simon, K. Rool, AND Isabelle (every unique newcomer) have gotten songs coinciding with their reveals, and that Pokémon hasn't had a song yet despite Incineroar being a lock.

These attempts to undermine the Music Theory are pretty bad, not gonna lie.

Umm...what do you mean by "coinciding with their reveals"?

Because Simon was the only one who had a song added to the site with his reveal....

 

[Shroob]

Umm...what do you mean by "coinciding with their reveals"?

Because Simon was the only one who had a song added to the site with his reveal....

From what I gather, it means that after a newcomer is revealed, the next song belongs to them.

K.Rool got Gangplank Galleon as the next song of the week, Isabelle got this one, etc.



That's what I 'think' it means.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I will bring up that right after Donkey Kong,'s music, we got a Fire Emblem track, which could easily be tied to Chrom.

Though I think that helps music theory more then it hurts it.

But then you remember one of the first remixes we got was Street Fighter and as we're getting Ken, it shows it's inconsistent

 

[Deleted member]

From what I gather, it means that after a newcomer is revealed, the next song belongs to them.

K.Rool got Gangplank Galleon as the next song of the week, Isabelle got this one, etc.



That's what I 'think' it means.

Ah.

Then I guess that remix of the Trainer Battle from S/M that's in the Pokémon segment of the August Direct would be the track that comes after Incineroar's reveal or something?

 

[Jetsurge]

So does anyone else think one of the hidden stages is a Yoshi's Crafted World stage? I thought it was werid that Wolly World was cut and now I think we know why.

 

[Astroworld]

Erm what? Raiden couldn't work as an echo to Snake. He's a superhuman cyborg that can toss 100+ ton robots with relative ease.

I mean OG Raiden

Cyborg Raiden would be an awesome unique fighter though. He was in PS All Stars I believe

also I hope that DK rap reference was intentional

 

[Zinith]

So does anyone else think one of the hidden stages is a Yoshi's Crafted World stage? I thought it was werid that Wolly World was cut and now I think we know why.

You don't need to convince me of that

But of course my boi already has 4 stages, so if it ends up not being the case, oh well...

 

[Shroob]

So does anyone else think one of the hidden stages is a Yoshi's Crafted World stage? I thought it was werid that Wolly World was cut and now I think we know why.

I'd put money one of the 5 hidden stages is Crafted World.

They legit couldn't have showed it to us in the August Direct due to the name of the game not even being officially revealed at the time.


Crafted Yoshi, to me, confirms that we're getting Crafted World as a replacement to Wooly World.

 

[Jetsurge]

I mean, is anyone really surprised that the 2nd SE rep could be Dragon Quest?


We always gush about how Simon is "Basically Nintendo" like Megaman due to his early and rich history with Nintendo.


Dragon Quest goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back too and is arguably one of the most successful Famicon RPGs, period, only rivaled by Final Fantasy.

DQ would probably be even more of a ***** to get content from than FF

 

[Captain Shwampy]

DQ would probably be even more of a ***** to get content from than FF

eh they'll just let sakurai have like 2 or 3 midi tunes from whatever DQ game they decided to represent

I dont think it will be that much of an issue

 

[Opossum]

It isn't irrelevant, a Fire Emblem remix was highlighted after a Fire Emblem newcomer appeared. You literally cannot shrug off something that breaks this as a mere coincidence. This is just Smash fans desperately clinging on to patterns they made up and want to be right. YOU CANNOT WRITE IT OFF AS A COINCIDENCE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T BENEFIT YOUR IDEA. Can't be clearer than that

You clearly aren't understanding me at all. Echoes don't count, so whether they correspond to music or not doesn't matter because from a marketing perspective, they are bonuses and not the main attraction, as shown by their numbering. As such, Chrom didn't NEED music to correspond to him as it was irrelevant to the theory, as Chrom was an echo. But that doesn't stop him from being able to get one.

The theory is only disproven if one of two things happen:

1. We get music from a franchise and THEN a unique newcomer from that franchise is revealed

Or

2. We get a unique newcomer, but the next music update doesn't relate to them.

Literally nothing else disproves it.

 

[Shroob]

The thing that honestly bewilders me about a Gen 7 Pokémon, regardless of how likely or preferable or even which one, is by Ultimate's release that generation will already be out of the spotlight.
If I'm correct, Gen 8 is supposed to be out by middle of next year, so outside of LGPE they'll be concentrating on that game.
So USUM wouldn't even be a focus anymore at that point.
Like instead of a potential ballot pick, it would go to a "promotional" Pokémon, when there's not really much to promote with it by it's release.
I just feel this iteration of Smash is odd in that regard due to Pokémon generations. Like every Smash pretty much coincided with the most recent Pokémon games.
And well, this time around, not so much.

Ehhhh, not really.


IF the roster was finalized by 2015, Incineroar/whoever was still concept art by that time when Sakurai got his hands on it.

Blame it moreso on the long development cycle than anything.

 

[Jetsurge]

You don't need to convince me of that

But of course my boi already has 4 stages, so if it ends up not being the case, oh well...

Now that I think about it Yoshi's Story does already have a crafty look so probably not

 

[Kaeltor]

That's the problem, lol. What they are saying is that the SE character would be from Dragon Quest

Oh ok I see what you're getting at. Yeah leaky pandy's hints seem to be pointing towards Dragon Quest. I'm still having a hard time believing any leaks except maybe Vergeben.

 

[Shroob]

Now that I think about it Yoshi's Story does already have a crafty look so probably not
View attachment 165455

It's always looked like that.

If anything, the HD Cardboard textures may serve as an easy copy/paste job for a Crafted World stage.

 

[Jetsurge]

You clearly aren't understanding me at all. Echoes don't count, so whether they correspond to music or not doesn't matter because from a marketing perspective, they are bonuses and not the main attraction, as shown by their numbering. As such, Chrom didn't NEED music to correspond to him as it was irrelevant to the theory, as Chrom was an echo. But that doesn't stop him from being able to get one.

The theory is only disproven if one of two things happen:

1. We get music from a franchise and THEN a unique newcomer from that franchise is revealed

Or

2. We get a unique newcomer, but the next music update doesn't relate to them.

Literally nothing else disproves it.

A Pokemon remix before Incineroar would disprove it

 

[Zinith]

Now that I think about it Yoshi's Story does already have a crafty look so probably not
View attachment 165455

It's more of a case of extremes. Yoshi's Story is supposed to be more of a storybook while Crafted World is more supposed to be a child's room...

 

[Shadowwolflink]

Umm...what do you mean by "coinciding with their reveals"?

Because Simon was the only one who had a song added to the site with his reveal....

Technically the Brinstar Depths remix on the site coincided with Ridley's announcement, considering it was there when the site launched just after the Direct.

 

[Opossum]

A Pokemon remix before Incineroar would disprove it

That's what point number one was lol.

 

[Kaeltor]

Out of curiosity, were there any Dragon Quest characters on the infamous polls?

 

[TreeBranch]

Wow, a Yoshi's Crafted World stage does seem kinda likely now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the second stage in smash history to be from a game not yet released at launch? Yoshi games must have the weirdest development cycles.