Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[perfectchaos83]

What's the consensus on the LeakyPandy leak since I was at work?

I don't really see it being talked about anywhere, but it's so specific and doesn't contradict Verg or the Box Theory

Is this talking about the VGAs implying a DQ character for DLC?

 

[PlasmaDam]

Guys The Smash rosters are planned in advance right so Shadow gained a lot popularity During when they revealed echos fighters and Daisy isn't possible that they plan for shadow in advance or something cause SHADOW recently got really popular

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Number theory.
Wanna know how I know? I’m gonna make it up right now. It won’t be very solid, but I wanna experiment.

Number Theory

• Sakurai is revealing characters in order of their inclusion to Smash, excluding echoes. In this way, we can assume Sakurai has a set order to his reveal schedule. He is not likely to change number due to months of planning for these reveals and each new character already has a finalized number that will not change.
• If this is true, the character most likely to have been planned for last reveal is a Gen 7 Pokémon and will therefore be the last reveal(if a Pokémon from Gen 7 was planned at all.)
• Additionally, unique characters, since Ridley, have been shown to be revealed according to their original release date timeline. Ridley first appeared in the late 80’s, Simon a little later, K. Rool in 94 and Isabelle in 2011. This rule also applies to all echoes thus far. Inkling is being ignored, because Inkling was the most logical first announcement due to the direct in which Smash was announced(the same time Splatoon 2: Octo Expansion was announced and was used as a fake-out hype trailer).
• Debunk methods:
  • A new character is revealed that made a video game debut before 2012
  • A Gen 7 pokemon is announced before another character who did not debut before Sun and Moon
• Flaws
  • Debunking the character order by year will not debunk the Gen 7 bullet on it’s own.
  • Exception: Debunking the Gen 7 pokemon by the second debunking method discredits the entire theory.

This is not a theory i believe and it isn’t one I personally came up with. I don’t remember who came up with it, but I did add to it.

That person was shot down because of the Inkling exception. I think that’s unfair, considering music theory has the echo exception and this “number theory” has only ONE exception thus far.

Clarification: This is nothing to believe. Just to be a part of if you care to.
Feel free to point out flaws, copy and add evidence or what have you.
Just do so in a friendly manner and I can’t see how we would have a problem.
Box Theory and Music Theory should be no different. It shouldn’t divide anyone.

It just doesn't stop...

 

[Chumpodile]

Shadow isn’t guaranteed, but he’s way more likely than 50 50

Rhythm Heaven characters absolutely!! Yes!!

edit: I'm new sorry I got confused by your signature haha

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Is this talking about the VGAs implying a DQ character for DLC?

Yeah,

I'm especially concerned as that would basically deconfirm Geno right there.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Guys The Smash rosters are planned in advance right so Shadow gained a lot popularity During when they revealed echos fighters and Daisy isn't possible that they plan for shadow in advance or something cause SHADOW recently got really popular

Are you trying to just shoot down any supporters of the character at the moment? I don't really see what you're gunning for otherwise.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Yeah,

I'm especially concerned as that would basically deconfirm Geno right there.

I feel the opposite, tbh, since that gives me Megaman/Ryu vibes. Granted, it's more of a personal theory of mine that Capcom allowed Megaman in Smash as long as Ryu got in too.

 

[PsySmasher]

Guys The Smash rosters are planned in advance right so Shadow gained a lot popularity During when they revealed echos fighters and Daisy isn't possible that they plan for shadow in advance or something cause SHADOW recently got really popular

Shadow is currently the only 3rd party character that has appeared as an assist trophy in multiple Smash games (pre-Ultimate). I doubt Sakurai wouldn't at least consider Shadow as an echo.

 

[Nethermoosen]

It just doesn't stop...

Lol. You can ignore it, though. If you see the word “theory” just pass it up if it bothers you.
You won’t hurt my feelings, cuz.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Are you trying to just shoot down any supporters of the character at the moment? I don't really see what you're gunning for otherwise.

No The Characther I really want is Gunvolt and he has no chance to be in.Im just saying that Shadow isn't bassicly guaranteed in Smash ulitmate cause too many people say that

 

[Chrono.]

Guys The Smash rosters are planned in advance right so Shadow gained a lot popularity During when they revealed ecgos fighters and Daisy isn't possible that they plan for shadow in advance or something

No one is saying Shadow was voted highly in the ballot or that he'll get in because he got popularity after E3 or that he's guaranteed. But, rather, what people are saying is that with the concept of Echo Fighters having been planned from the start, he'd be a no brainer choice for a Sonic echo because he fits the concept to a T on top of being a really popular character, ballot or not.

The fact that he's been MIA so far when he made two previous appearances as an AT has only added fuel to the fire. Which became wildfire when CV debuted with two characters right off the bat.

 

[Jetsurge]

Also while I was looking through the Mariowiki to find that picture book image, I found a lovely image taken out of context:

I'll leave it to you to find the context...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

 

[Idon]

Shadow is currently the only 3rd party character that has appeared as an assist trophy in multiple Smash games (pre-Ultimate). I doubt Sakurai wouldn't at least consider Shadow as an echo.

I think Dr. Wright from Sim City also counts

 

[Zinith]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
View attachment 165453

Umm, I don't know if that counts as a nsfw image...

 

[Idon]

Umm, I don't know if that counts as a nsfw image...

Honestly, regular pornography would be easier to explain to your boss at work than this abomination.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Umm, I don't know if that counts as a nsfw image...

Weird that no one said that the first time. But change them to the same species and people just start wondering....

 

[Koopaul]

I think Dr. Wright from Sim City also counts

The character Dr. Wright is owned by Nintendo. But the Sim City series is not owned by Nintendo.

 

[Zinith]

Weird that no one said that the first time. But change them to the same species and people just start wondering....

Take a look at both images and you'll see...

 

[Idon]

The character Dr. Wright is owned by Nintendo. But the game Sim City series is not owned by them.

Aaaah, I never knew that.

 

[PsySmasher]

I think Dr. Wright from Sim City also counts

Oh yeah. Forgot about Wright.

Anyway, my point still stands on Shadow. I find it hard to believe that Sakurai, at the very least, wouldn't consider him as an echo.

Edit: I guess my original point still stands now? IDK. Point being Shadow has a decent chance of being an echo.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I hope not man... I hope not.

But this is Pokemon, so you never know.

True, but they got it better than Fire Emblem

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Shadow is currently the only 3rd party character that has appeared as an assist trophy in multiple Smash games (pre-Ultimate). I doubt Sakurai wouldn't at least consider Shadow as an echo.

Also shadow has always been crazy popular, I would not be surprised if he did well on the ballot, the sonic fanbase goes hard like that. He probably at least did better than chrom or dark samus

 

[P.Kat]

All these hypothetical rosters and no Phoenix Wright feelsbadman...

At least he shows up on more rosters, polls, and conversations than Amaterasu does. I wish Amaterasu had even half the attention Phoenix Wright gets

So, what character would you cut from Ultimate that would get daggers glared at you?

I think you all know my answer.

None, all these characters brought joy to everyone. Whether newcomer or veteran, these characters means a lot to people, I wouldn't want to rob them of their happiness, it's not I get any of my top picks if do.

Although if I was promised a character per cut, maybe I would...

What am I saying? Keep it together P.Kat

 

[Idon]

So, what character would you cut from Ultimate that would get daggers glared at you?

I think you all know my answer.

Sheik.

"But she's a Smash staple!"
She's been in ONE Zelda game where she just teleports around and plays her harp.

 

[Chumpodile]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
View attachment 165453

hmmmmmmm

HMMMmmmmmm

HMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

 

[MainJPW]

So, what character would you cut from Ultimate that would get daggers glared at you?

I think you all know my answer.

Sonic and his Spin Dash shenanigans. That guy's an asshole.

hmmmmmmm

HMMMmmmmmm

HMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

The leaning tower of Yoshi.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

No The Characther I really want is Gunvolt and he has no chance to be in.Im just saying that Shadow isn't bassicly guaranteed in Smash ulitmate cause too many people say that

My support comes more from the fact that he's been shown prominently with Sonic in Smash in the past, a role Knuckles seems to be in now.

The concept of Echoes only adds fuel to a fire of his AT seemingly being MIA. His recent being playable in Modern Sonic stages in Forces, despite that game being pretty much just mediocre and forgetable was a huge hype point for many people, since he hadn't been playable properly in a bit.

Part of also why I want Shadow, is i'm kind of a sucker for his type of character. More so back when he was introduced (as I liked Jaffar back in FE7 quite a bit around those years). But that like has stuck, despite me going back to mostly goody goods.

The rivalry Sonic and Shadow have also reminds me of Goku and Vegeta to an extent, probably because Sonic loves to reference Dragon Ball in a few obvious nods.

He's certainly possible, I'm not going to state he's a shoe in, that would be folly, but I won't back down from anything. Not the box theory or anything else, until I know for certain, and even then I can hope for DLC.

When I entered Ultimate speculation, I was pretty much set with the roster from day 1, and anyone I'd actually super want were literally impossible/not from Nintendo related series or worldwide known. Richter Belmont happened, which was a super hype point for me, since he's my favorite Belmont.

It made me realize, with the lack of Shadow showing up as an AT so far, perhaps I could get my 2nd favorite Sonic character. My ballot voted character is an AT now(Zero), so I may as well go with this until it dies.

Heck Zero even showing up as an AT was satsfying for me, considering it felt like I personally helped him get there, maybe not as a fighter but into Smash, that little vote. Sakurai tries to listen and he was able to give us fans of Zero something too.

 

[potato69]

hmmmmmmm

HMMMmmmmmm

HMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

Ah yes, the yoshi centipede. A classic.

 

[Zinith]

hmmmmmmm

HMMMmmmmmm

HMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

I think I may have inadvertently created a meme...

 

[Chumpodile]

Ah yes, the yoshi centipede. A classic.

I've been drawing a lot of weird yoshis tonight but I refuse to draw that :[

 

[CosmicQuark]

Number theory.
Wanna know how I know? I’m gonna make it up right now. It won’t be very solid, but I wanna experiment.

Number Theory

• Sakurai is revealing characters in order of their inclusion to Smash, excluding echoes. In this way, we can assume Sakurai has a set order to his reveal schedule. He is not likely to change number due to months of planning for these reveals and each new character already has a finalized number that will not change.
• If this is true, the character most likely to have been planned for last reveal is a Gen 7 Pokémon and will therefore be the last reveal(if a Pokémon from Gen 7 was planned at all.)
• Additionally, unique characters, since Ridley, have been shown to be revealed according to their original release date timeline. Ridley first appeared in the late 80’s, Simon a little later, K. Rool in 94 and Isabelle in 2011. This rule also applies to all echoes thus far. Inkling is being ignored, because Inkling was the most logical first announcement due to the direct in which Smash was announced(the same time Splatoon 2: Octo Expansion was announced and was used as a fake-out hype trailer).
• Debunk methods:
  • A new character is revealed that made a video game debut before 2012
  • A Gen 7 pokemon is announced before another character who did not debut before Sun and Moon
• Flaws
  • Debunking the character order by year will not debunk the Gen 7 bullet on it’s own.
  • Exception: Debunking the Gen 7 pokemon by the second debunking method discredits the entire theory.

This is not a theory i believe and it isn’t one I personally came up with. I don’t remember who came up with it, but I did add to it.

That person was shot down because of the Inkling exception. I think that’s unfair, considering music theory has the echo exception and this “number theory” has only ONE exception thus far.

Clarification: This is nothing to believe. Just to be a part of if you care to.
Feel free to point out flaws, copy and add evidence or what have you.
Just do so in a friendly manner and I can’t see how we would have a problem.
Box Theory and Music Theory should be no different. It shouldn’t divide anyone.

It's similar to a theory I had after King K Rool's reveal. I noticed the order of the reveals matched the characters appearance in gaming, and excluded Inkling as she didn't have a proper trailer reveal, but instead used to promote the game as a whole. My feeling was Sakurai wanted this to be the Ultimate Smash game for every fan, new and old, and so balanced the prominent potential picks with where they originated. My thoughts were:

NES: Ridley, Simon
SNES: King K Rool, Geno
N64: Banjo & Kazooie, Skull Kid
Gamecube/Advance: Isaac, Chorus Kids
Wii/Wii U (3DS): Incineroar (& Inkling)

Making 10 unique newcomers total. Of course, it wasn't that great--I still felt like 10 might be too many newcomers, and I included Chorus Kids as a non-ballot Sakurai pick, despite almost exclusively focusing on the polls (my bias) and lining them up with Verg's claims. As well as it was difficult to come up with characters from the Gamecube era (a system I never owned, bias). And I was fudging things in the Gamecube-Wii U era to make things fit, whether to include handhelds or not, and if so, how. Overall, I didn't like my theory, so I never did anything with it (so I'm in no ways taking credit for "theories" I never posted about to begin with, just sharing my previous thought process). And then Isabelle came and screwed a theory that wasn't that good to begin with. Still, I liked the idea of it and felt it was the most inclusive way of including many fan favorites in the roster, and it's still possible the order isn't a real pattern, but balancing newcomers by generation still could be.

Still, the idea that the order of reveals being the order of their appearance still stands with the facts as they are now. My only personal issues are, I think they would choose to market characters in an order that will maximize profits, not follow a specific pattern and it may just be a coincidence as of yet. As well as with Isabelle, skipping three console generations of potential newcomers is a bummer. But those are biased criticisms, rather than factual.

 

[Misery Brick]

The thing that honestly bewilders me about a Gen 7 Pokémon, regardless of how likely or preferable or even which one, is by Ultimate's release that generation will already be out of the spotlight.
If I'm correct, Gen 8 is supposed to be out by middle of next year, so outside of LGPE they'll be concentrating on that game.
So USUM wouldn't even be a focus anymore at that point.
Like instead of a potential ballot pick, it would go to a "promotional" Pokémon, when there's not really much to promote with it by it's release.
I just feel this iteration of Smash is odd in that regard due to Pokémon generations. Like every Smash pretty much coincided with the most recent Pokémon games.
And well, this time around, not so much.

 

[P.Kat]

Sheik.

"But she's a Smash staple!"
She's been in ONE Zelda game where she just teleports around and plays her harp.

*Glares daggers at you* attacking my top main? Not cool bro. XD

 

[Michael the Spikester]

NES: Ridley, Simon(Richter)
SNES: King K. Rool, Geno
N64: Daisy, Skull Kid
Gamecube: Dark Samus, Isaac
3DS: Chrom, Isabelle
Wii U: Inkling, Incineroar

It finally all adds up!

 

[Chumpodile]

Yoshi new final smash confirmed

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's similar to a theory I had after King K Rool's reveal. I noticed the order of the reveals matched the characters appearance in gaming, and excluded Inkling as she didn't have a proper trailer reveal, but instead used to promote the game as a whole. My feeling was Sakurai wanted this to be the Ultimate Smash game for every fan, new and old, and so balanced the prominent potential picks with where they originated. My thoughts were:

NES: Ridley, Simon
SNES: King K Rool, Geno
N64: Banjo & Kazooie, Skull Kid
Gamecube/Advance: Isaac, Chorus Kids
Wii/Wii U (3DS): Incineroar (& Inkling)

Making 10 unique newcomers total. Of course, it wasn't that great--I still felt like 10 might be too many newcomers, and I included Chorus Kids as a non-ballot Sakurai pick, despite almost exclusively focusing on the polls (my bias) and lining them up with Verg's claims. As well as it was difficult to come up with characters from the Gamecube era (a system I never owned, bias). And I was fudging things in the Gamecube-Wii U era to make things fit, whether to include handhelds or not, and if so, how. Overall, I didn't like my theory, so I never did anything with it (so I'm in no ways taking credit for "theories" I never posted about to begin with, just sharing my previous thought process). And then Isabelle came and screwed a theory that wasn't that good to begin with. Still, I liked the idea of it and felt it was the most inclusive way of including many fan favorites in the roster, and it's still possible the order isn't a real pattern, but balancing newcomers by generation still could be.

Still, the idea that the order of reveals being the order of their appearance still stands with the facts as they are now. My only personal issues are, I think they would choose to market characters in an order that will maximize profits, not follow a specific pattern and it may just be a coincidence as of yet. As well as with Isabelle, skipping three console generations of potential newcomers is a bummer. But those are biased criticisms, rather than factual.

You can't just say Inkling doesn't count. This is like how music theory people go "Echoes don't count" despite Chrom getting a theme

 

[LetterO]

NES: Ridley, Simon(Richter)
SNES: King K. Rool, Geno
N64: Daisy, Skull Kid
Gamecube: Dark Samus, Isaac
3DS: Chrom, Isabelle
Wii U: Inkling, Incineroar

It finally all adds up!

>Isaac
>Gamecube

hold on wha?

 

[CosmicQuark]

You can't just say Inkling doesn't count. This is like how music theory people go "Echoes don't count" despite Chrom getting a theme

I'm not saying Inkling's don't count, I'm saying my thought (at the time, not currently) was that Inkling's reveal was different than every other newcomer. Inkling's the only unique character without a trailer and splash art screen. So it's *possible* they treated Inklings differently, while following a particular pattern of reveals (it was very odd that they went from NES era reveals to an SNES era reveal). I'm just as guilty as everyone else of seeing patterns that aren't there, but my post was to recognize that. In seriousness, I don't subscribe to any fan theory--music, box, number, etc. They're just fun to toy around with (until people start taking them too seriously).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

NES: Ridley, Simon(Richter)
SNES: King K. Rool, Geno
N64: Daisy, Skull Kid
Gamecube: Dark Samus, Isaac
3DS: Chrom, Isabelle
Wii U: Inkling, Incineroar

It finally all adds up!

Why did you put Daisy on the N64, Isaac on the Gamecube and Incineroar on the Wii U when they blatantly didn't come from there?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not saying Inkling's don't count, I'm saying my thought (at the time, not currently) was that Inkling's reveal was different than every other newcomer. Inkling's the only unique character without a trailer and splash art screen. So it's *possible* they treated Inklings differently, while following a particular pattern of reveals (it was very odd that they went from NES era reveals to an SNES era reveal). I'm just as guilty as everyone else of seeing patterns that aren't there, but my post was to recognize that. In seriousness, I don't subscribe to any fan theory--music, box, number, etc. They're just fun to toy around with (until people start taking them too seriously).

My bad, I'm admittedly not fully awake but it is SO dumb seeing people cling on to all these stupid theories if a pattern that supports it suddenly breaks