Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dee Dude]

How would you feel if Mii costumes were removed for Ultimate DLC but in exchange, we get alternate outfits/designs for the characters instead?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Maybe it's just the vitamins in my smoothie talking, but I kinda feel like believing in the box theory is kind of silly

If you really think about it

But I've come to expect disappointment

 

[Zinith]

How would you feel if we no longer have Mii Costumes for DLC but instead in exchange alternate costumes for the characters?

Oh, that's preferable in my case

 

[Exalt4747]

...I know it all comes down to opinions but...what kinda sick world must one live in where they don't care for or want Ridley or Cloud or most importantly, Snake?


Not trying to dispute your second point. My point was that using RH and saying you can't pull too much music from that seems silly. I'm sure I misunderstood tho.

As much as I care about all three of these, I can't like this on principle rip.

 

[Potato_]

One thing people are forgetting is how much unannounced content there’s still left to cover besides characters. We have yet to see what’s exactly in the submenus for Online, Games and more, and Vault. The only things we’ve seen in these submenus are classic mode, training mode, smashdown, and my music.

We have yet to potentially see: anything online related, Stage builder, trophies, remaining assist trophies , break the target/target smash, multi-man smash, challenges/event match, special orders, home-run contest, how Miis are exactly going to work in ultimate vs. Smash 4, all star mode.

Some of these things might be removed or implemented very differently, but there’s a lot we still don’t know about this game, and that’s not even counting spirits mode.

Well, yeah, but then the direct wouldn't be dedicated to Spirits mode. That was my point, that they'd need to fill it with other stuff about the game.

We've yet to get a Robin/Lucina type of reveal with this game, and with less than 3 months to go, I really doubt we'll get one unless it's this supposed Keniroar trailer, and the final Direct focuses on Spirits Mode+the 2nd Square rep.

I just don't see them revealing anyone outside of a Direct this time.

It's important to remember that we've also had less time for that stuff to happen in general. Game was revealed in March, and they only REALLY started talking about it in June at E3. They're going to have to go into overtime eventually to get all this info out, especially if this game is as big content wise as they seem to be hinting at. A reminder that an October announcement doesn't have to be characters.

And if Box Theory is disproven well, everything we thought we knew goes out the window and we go into full on speculation mode again.

 

[SmashShadow]

With the datamine leak, there's a reasonable chance Bayonetta was chosen for reasons that weren't the ballot. This doesn't mean the ballot votes weren't real. It just means they weren't used as a factor. She literally is that popular. So nothing changed, just that people were led under the idea the ballot will determine a Smash 4 newcomer. What in reality it was is that the ballot could possibly help choose one or be used for future games. In other words, it's only been used for Smash Ultimate and some Mii Costumes, at least from what we can best gather.

Glad my 15 votes for K.Rool didn't go to waste.

 

[Luigi The President]

As much as I care about all three of these, I can't like this on principle rip.

My heart is absolutely broken

 

[PLATINUM7]

Merge Pokemon Trainer and Mii Fighters together

Just Pokemon Trainer actually.

How would you feel if Mii costumes were removed for Ultimate DLC but in exchange, we get alternate outfits/designs for the characters instead?

Indifferent as I don't care for cosmetic DLC.

 

[Makai Wars]

Because the pattern on the box is very specific, and they made the it in a really particular way, which would be a waste of time if it was just going to be discarded or heavily altered to make room for more characters.

I simply refuse to believe a man as vehemently against leaks as Sakurai would inadvertently spoil the roster size because "lol, spaces on the box!", I also refuse to believe that for another 2 months we only have 2 characters left to reveal, one of them being an Echo. There's also the fact that Verg has been wrong two times for every time he's right, coupled with missing Richter, and just text leaks in general. None of this is credible enough to totally shut down any Smash speculation until another Direct comes along.

 

[LetterO]

My second point still stands, especially with Rhythm Heaven.

There’s a crap ton of music they could pull from RH, and I don’t think the lack of a character will stop them.

We only got two in Wii U, and they’re both non-remixed and on the now defunct Miiverse stage. I genuinely hope we get more in Ultimate.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I let out the gayest gasp of my life as soon as I heard Bayonetta's voice in her trailer.

I had felt she was possible since the very beginning of Nintendo guiding her future with Bayonetta 2, but to actually see it happen.

I let out a squeal that they say you could hear on Uranus.

 

[Shroob]

then every character is underwhelming

There’s plenty of people that didn’t care/want Snake, Cloud, or Ridley.


So currently it’s only been about a month and a half since you got a ton of information in the Smash direct. And you also just got information on the console bundle and a new character last week. Don’t be so entitled.

"Entitled"


In two weeks it'll have been two months since August direct.

There was a two month gap between E3's and August's.


It's in no way unreasonable to say that October would be a fine time.

 

[Murlough]

How would you feel if Mii costumes were removed for Ultimate DLC but in exchange, we get alternate outfits/designs for the characters instead?

Happy because I think Miis as a concept are lame and I really want to get Pichu and Pikachu costumes. Maybe a witch costume for Palutena? Too bad this isn't Overwatch...

 

[Exalt4747]

My heart is absolutely broken

I guess just....I don't like it when people force their opinions or stomp on mine as all so I have to extend the same to others.. Yours wasn't even that bad.

 

[Astroworld]

...I know it all comes down to opinions but...what kinda sick world must one live in where they don't care for or want Ridley or Cloud or most importantly, Snake?

Personally I didn’t care for Cloud. Never played a Final Fantasy game besides FFX which I didn’t like given i’m not a JRPG fan. Still it was cool seeing an iconic and incredibly unexpected character join. I wish more people had that same mentality. I welcome any additions to the roster, even if it’s a character Im not interested in. It’s not like their inclusion takes away from what’s already there

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I stated awhile back, if Ken and Incineroar is really all we are getting in the end...how do we get to 800 music tracks?

Well we know that Street Fighter gained a whopping 30 extra tracks, CastleVania got 34 and Sakurai said Mega Man was popular with the music team meaning it might have a similar amount, there's the obligatory 'multiple versions of the main theme', Master Hand, Spirits mode can contain unique music, other single player stuff can have unique music, etc.

 

[Luigi The President]

I guess just....I don't like it when people force their opinions or stomp on mine as all. Yours wasn't even that bad.

Oh I understand lol!

 

[Exalt4747]

Well, I gotta go sadly...I wonder what the next news will be.

 

[osby]

Personally I didn’t care for Cloud. Never played a Final Fantasy game besides FFX which I didn’t like given i’m not a JRPG fan. Still it was cool seeing an iconic and incredibly unexpected character join. I wish more people had that same mentality. I welcome any additions to the roster, even if it’s a character Im not interested in. It’s not like their inclusion takes away from what’s already there

But it takes away from what ISN'T in the game, which is more important than in-game content as we all know.

 

[AugustusB]

It ya BOI! Before I go I did not take into account the tracks from Smash 4 transferring over (if all of them did). That would be close to 500 tracks. Now add Smash 64, melee and brawl stages, the new stages, remixes...I would say that would put us closer between 600 to 700 tracks of music.

My apologies, I will go back to my respective Box now.

So long!

EDIT: But still! Who knows what the last couple of tracks could be.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I simply refuse to believe a man as vehemently against leaks as Sakurai would inadvertently spoil the roster size because "lol, spaces on the box!", I also refuse to believe that for another 2 months we only have 2 characters left to reveal, one of them being an Echo. There's also the fact that Verg has been wrong two times for every time he's right, coupled with missing Richter, and just text leaks in general. None of this is credible enough to totally shut down any Smash speculation until another Direct comes along.

I believe that Sakurai is human being who can make errors, just like how he let somebody put Ryu and Roy in the game’s files months before they were announced.

I also believe that, for a game who’s marketing is mostly around its characters and how “everyone is here” with a huge mural with every character, we will have the final count at least a month before the game drops.

I also believe that when it comes to Smash, Verge has almost always been right, and CERTAINLY not “two wrongs for every right.” Can you cite an example of him being wrong in regards to his Smash sources?

Finally, knowing the characters and stages isn’t the “end” of Smash speculation. We still know nothing about any of the modes besides Tournament, Smashdown, and Classic. We don’t know anything about Spirits (which is probably HUGE), Events, All-Star, Online, or even what other modes there are.

 

[Misery Brick]

My second point still stands, especially with Rhythm Heaven.

There’s a crap ton of music they could pull from RH, and I don’t think the lack of a character will stop them.

Well, I mean it be pretty odd if Rhythm Heaven made a considerable amount of the music total, especially considering since minor series generally don't get more than like five tracks in the other section.
That could change with this iteration, idk.

Also, I don't think Rhythm Heaven is exactly the best series to use for this comparison.
Going off of the datamine, in-game content, and Gematsu for Smash 4:
There was going to be a Rhythm Heaven character for Smash Bros and was theoretically worked on as much as the Ice Climbers.
The main question is if they're still going to be thrown into Ultimate.

(Regardless of theories, I still think everyone is sleeping on them)

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Well, I mean it be pretty odd if Rhythm Heaven made a considerable amount of the music total, especially considering since minor series generally don't get more than like five tracks in the other section.
That could change with this iteration, idk.

Also, I don't think Rhythm Heaven is exactly the best series to use for this comparison.
Going off of the datamine, in-game content, and Gematsu for Smash 4:
There was going to be a Rhythm Heaven character for Smash Bros and was theoretically worked on as much as the Ice Climbers.
The main question is if they're still going to be thrown into Ultimate.

(Regardless of theories, I still think everyone is sleeping on them)

I’ve honestly been predicting a Rhythm Heaven rep since the game was announced in March, mainly because of the Gematsu leak. I was even predicting Karate Joe as of last Thrsuday.

Of course, the box put a wrench in things in my eyes at least.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

Whatever happens presumably in November, Ultimate is going to be a great game. As for me, I already got what I mainly want: all characters returning from Smash 4. On top of that, I got Wolf back, King K Rool after a decade absence, and even Ridley. I'm also going to try out the rest of the cut veterans and the newcomers to see if they fit my play style. But, I definitely want to main Wolf, King K Rool, and Ridley in addition to my mains from Smash 4. There are few characters that I would like to see, but they are not a priority for me since I already want to play so many characters. They are: Rayman, Dixie Kong, Geno, Issac, and a another Sonic character like Tails.

As for who I think will get in, I think there's only two left. They are: Ken and Incineroar. I don't think those two need an explanation, but I think those two would be excellent for a single trailer. After all, they are both wrestler like characters. Regardless of what you think of the box theory, I would just except two characters because the man himself said there would be only a few left. Plus, I'm getting deja vu from all of this. Brawl: "There has to be more than 35 characters. There's no way ROB could get in. He's an enemy from the SEE." Smash 4: "There's no way this is the final roster. It's so disorganized." So, I see some similar things here. I just don't want anyone to feel like they've been lied to because their favorite character didn't make the cut and someone less popular made it in instead. I have been there before, and I don't want to be in that same trap again. However, there could still be a chance that there are more than two fighters coming. If that's the case, awesome the more the merrier. Sometimes, it's great to be wrong and other times it's stinks to be right.

Aside of characters and stages, I'm looking forward to what game modes they will show. I hope Smash Run returns though with some improvements. I'm also hoping that Boss Rush mode will return as well. Regardless, though I think the single player modes will be more enjoyable this time around. Even though I enjoyed Smash 4 single player modes, but not as good like in Brawl. November and December can't come soon enough

 

[osby]

Well, I mean it be pretty odd if Rhythm Heaven made a considerable amount of the music total, especially considering since minor series generally don't get more than like five tracks in the other section.
That could change with this iteration, idk.

Also, I don't think Rhythm Heaven is exactly the best series to use for this comparison.
Going off of the datamine, in-game content, and Gematsu for Smash 4:
There was going to be a Rhythm Heaven character for Smash Bros and was theoretically worked on as much as the Ice Climbers.
The main question is if they're still going to be thrown into Ultimate.

(Regardless of theories, I still think everyone is sleeping on them)

Rhythm Heaven is weird. Getting a character from it would be great and it makes a lot of sense but no "leaks" or theories point to them that much.

It's either we're sleeping on them or there is really not much.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I'm going with Michael Giacchino on this! He's like, perfect.

Or the legendary John Williams. lol.

Yes! My trifecta of favorites is Williams/Morricone/Horner

 

[Potato_]

I'm not fully on board with Box Theory, but if Ken and Incineroar really were the last two characters I'd live.

What I'm hoping for is that the presumed Direct in November shows some of the planned DLC.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Heh it just occurred to me but how cool would it be if we ended up getting a Villain Bundle for DLC.

-Black Knight
-Black Shadow
-Medusa
-Porky Minch
-Skull Kid
-Sylux

One can only dream...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Warchamp7

When are we gonna get the Isabelle icon?

 

[Deleted member]

It ya BOI! Before I go I did not take into account the tracks from Smash 4 transferring over (if all of them did). That would be close to 500 tracks. Now add Smash 64, melee and brawl stages, the new stages, remixes...I would say that would put us closer between 600 to 700 tracks of music.

My apologies, I will go back to my respective Box now.

So long!

EDIT: But still! Who knows what the last couple of tracks could be.

Virtually all of 64's, Melee's, and Brawl's OST are in Wii U's OST. We'd still be at 481 tracks. There's plenty of music to go, about 450-500ish.

 

[Mutsukki]

It ya BOI! Before I go I did not take into account the tracks from Smash 4 transferring over (if all of them did). That would be close to 500 tracks. Now add Smash 64, melee and brawl stages, the new stages, remixes...I would say that would put us closer between 600 to 700 tracks of music.

My apologies, I will go back to my respective Box now.

So long!

EDIT: But still! Who knows what the last couple of tracks could be.

Huh? A lot of these tracks are included in Smash 4's 507, I doubt what's missing would add more than... 20 tracks. Pretty sure the rest is brand new

 

[osby]

Warchamp7

When are we gonna get the Isabelle icon?

We have to do with this for now:

 

[Shroob]

I still think the 2nd SE rep is happening.

Though I also think Ken and Incineroar are happening.



There could be more, there could not be, we don't know.


That's my motto.


A 3-some reveal of Incineroar+Ken+Whoever as the last reveals makes perfect sense, to me at least.

 

[Misery Brick]

I’ve honestly been predicting a Rhythm Heaven rep since the game was announced in March, mainly because of the Gematsu leak. I was even predicting Karate Joe as of last Thrsuday.

Of course, the box put a wrench in things in my eyes at least.

Oh wow. Didn't actually know that about your predictions.
Yeah, from reading your earlier posts I can see that in regards to the box.
In all honesty, I seriously don't put any stock into the box theory for a multitude of reasons, but it does have some points for it that I'll admit.
So I'll consider it, but don't personally believe it's the case until I'm officially shown otherwise.

So for me, I'm back to predicting some characters until the nail in the coffin actually hits. I'm just done talking about it, given I've been discussing it to death for the past weekend. I'm done with it for the most part.
But hey, it's always good to have low expectations.
(I just responded as soon as I could, when I saw Rhythm Heaven mentioned soo..)

Rhythm Heaven is weird. Getting a character from it would be great and it makes a lot of sense but no "leaks" or theories point to them that much.

It's either we're sleeping on them or there is really not much.

That is true.
I think honestly, despite how much I'd want a Rhythm Heaven character, the biggest thing going for them is everything surrounding Smash 4. Nothing else really helps their case as much.
Like in that regard, I feel they're definitely a likely pick assuming that they were heavily worked on. Given Smash Ultimate's framework is heavily based off of Smash 4, I think it's possible they could've implemented them in this game, especially since the Ice Climbers were able to return.
Same goes for Bowser Jr., who almost got cut, but made it in the game just in time. In a theoretical sense if he got cut, I feel he'd be one of the characters that'd make it as a newcomer here like a potential RH rep.
There's other factors that could lead credence to their inclusion, like the possible 108 stages, and Sakurai's implementation of past ideas and concepts, but it's not honestly much. ( I mean there's one of those theory pictures floating around with all the info, so no need to really regurgitate it)

Like you said, the biggest shot against them are no credible leaks mentioning their inclusion. But I wouldn't necessarily say that's the death nail on their inclusion, given before the ESRB leak characters like Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, and Dark Pit weren't mentioned much, if anywhere at all. Also if I'm correct, even K. Rool wasn't leaked by Verge or anyone else with equatable credibility.
So I'm guessing those characters were handled and mostly discussed pretty much internally, so there is a possibility for "surprise characters".

I personally think they're a sleeper pick and are generally one of the more likely characters to be on the roster.
However, they also do have a couple factors against them and I'm willing to be completely wrong and acknowledge that could happen.

 

[Zinith]

In terms of my boi's music selection, I'm just gonna quote Yosher from the Yoshi Thread. Even I'M not this thorough...

Yeah, I have to admit I cringed at first when I saw what game this was being pulled from, but after listening I can definitely say I love this arrangement of the song. Something I never thought I'd say about Yoshi's New Island music. Just shows that they completely screwed up the instruments used in the actual game, or whatever, but it just sounded incredibly awkward. ...that said, the actual main theme of the song did sound.. kind of okay at least, but this particular one for Smash blows any song used in New Island out of the water completely.

I'm gonna be pissed if they don't make any new arrangements for Woolly World though honestly. That game has so many more great songs to use than New Island. And considering there's only like, what, 14 songs for the Yoshi series, and assuming that all the songs from previous games return, that doesn't leave many songs left to be revealed.

Just for convenience sake, here's all the Yoshi songs that appeared in previous Smash games (I'll list Yoshi icons corresponding to the games they appeared in):
1. Yoshi's Story (N64) - The original song used in the original Yoshi's Island (now called Super Happy Tree) stage.
2. Yoshi's Story (Melee) - Originally used in Melee's Yoshi's Story stage, and the only song (aside from the song in today's update) to be confirmed for Ultimate.
3. Yoshi's Island (Melee) - Originally used in Melee's Yoshi's Island stage. (Could be considered a Mario song instead, but considering it appears on a Yoshi stage and the original song is from the game Yoshi debuts in, it's a bit questionable.)
4. Obstacle Course (Spring/Summer) - Originally used in Brawl's Yoshi's Island stage.
5. Obstacle Course (Autumn/Winter) - Same song as above, but a slightly different version, but they technically count as the same song. It just depends on how the Music menu arranges these two (together or seperate).
6. Ending (Yoshi's Story) - Originally used in Brawl's Yoshi's Island stage.
7. Yoshi's Island - Originally used in Brawl's Yoshi's Island stage.
8. Flower Field - Originally used in Brawl's Yoshi's Island stage.
9. Wildlands - Originally used in Brawl's Yoshi's Island stage.
10. Yoshi's Island Remix - Originally used in Smash 4's Woolly World stage.
11. Main Theme (Yoshi's New Island) - Originally used in Smash 4's Woolly World stage.
12. Bandit Valley - Originally used in Smash 4's Woolly World stage.
13. Yoshi's Woolly World Remix - Originally used in Smash 4's Woolly World stage.
14. Yoshi's Woolly World Original - Originally used in Smash 4's Woolly World stage.
15. Main Theme (Yoshi's New Island) Remix - Confirmed to be used in the selection of Ultimate's Yoshi tracks.

You could technically include this song into the mix as well because it was used in the Melee Yoshi's Island stage, but the song just doesn't have anything to do with Yoshi considering it's pulled from Super Mario Bros. 3, so I won't count this one.

So, assuming that every single one of these will return in Smash 4, and 14 songs (as shown in the Smash Bros direct) would really be the final count for Yoshi songs... this could potentially mean we already know all of the Yoshi songs, with the reveal of this particular arrangement today. That'd be very disappointing honestly. Best case scenario here would be, Yoshi's Island (Melee) is counted as a Mario song, Obstacle Course is combined, leaving us at 12 returning Yoshi songs (if they all return), plus today's revealed arrangement being 13 songs so far, leaving only a single one to be revealed.

Again, assuming all the previous ones will return. Most of them probably will honestly, so we don't have much to look forward to music-wise either. Let's hope that this is just the default number and that we're going to have to collect CD's to add more, as was the case in Brawl and Smash Wii U, but I'm not going to hold my breath on this one considering all the stages are unlocked right from the start as well.

In the assumption that only remixes will return, that leaves us with (best case scenario) 10 songs so far, which, if 14 is the final number, which would leave us with 4 more songs to still be revealed. I'd say this number would be a bit more fair, though as with everything else, it'd be nice to see the Yoshi series getting a little more love here as well, especially when you see a third-party series getting over 30 songs added just for its 1 stage all in one go (which is well deserved, but come on...).

 

[Pakky]

Despite it all, moveset controversy, Ballot debacle, the tier stuff...

...Bayo is still one of the most "deserving" third parties who could've made the cut imo.
She's really Nintendo's baby. She always WILL be Nintendo's baby. They bought her back, they made her possible. And we ate it up.
Is she a third party? Yeah, but in my eyes, she's really a second party.

I feel the same way and I hope this happens for Travis.

Looking back at these sort of niche/ quirky characters (There are a TON in the PS2 and a few in the Wii generation) unless they have help or overwhelming success, regardless of quality they will just go away.

Dark Stalkers? Gone.

Rumble Roses? Gone.

Mad World? Gone.

Linda from Strech Panic? GONE!

Monster Rancher? GONE (That hurts)

Tomba!? Gone, like for real.

So it's heartwarming when someone you've followed from the start, that you were sure would just disappear, gets the biggest second-wind in history and becomes Nintendo character basically.

God, I hope Travis is saved, to me he WAS the Wii, Grasshopper guys just all seem to fade away and it's depressing.

That's kinda why I made a bunch icons of guys NO ONE knows so maybe one day, someone will run across the list, find one of them, and decide to look one of them up.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I still think the 2nd SE rep is happening.

Though I also think Ken and Incineroar are happening.



There could be more, there could not be, we don't know.


That's my motto.


A 3-some reveal of Incineroar+Ken+Whoever as the last reveals makes perfect sense, to me at least.

If I was Sakurai I'd also throw in Dixie, Impa and Shadow as Echo Fighters that way it rounds out to 80 characters for base roster. 70 unique fighters, 10 echo fighters. That's just me though.

 

[Iridium]

Well, I need to get my sleep. I'll see you all later then.

 

[Shroob]

If I was Sakurai I'd also throw in Dixie, Impa and Shadow as Echo Fighters that way it rounds out to 80 characters for base roster. 70 unique fighters, 10 echo fighters. That's just me though.

Eh.


The SE rep will be fighter #70, and they'll also be able to say "75 characters!" on the main site, which is basically a milestone number.



Seems like a good end point pre-DLC for me.

 

[Noipoi]

We have to do with this for now:

That's a no from me, dog.
Did it take this long to get these guys ?