Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nethermoosen]

Actually funny you asked, because I just got given this leak for NSMBUDeluxe:

View attachment 164801

Lifting and carrying stuff above his head has done wonders for his abs.

It as much as lifting his head every time he wakes up from a nap or falls over.

 

[Idon]

Excuse me but

what the ****?

The internet's a craaaazy place.

 

[YoshiandToad]

It as much as lifting his head every time he wakes up from a nap or falls over.

He nods thrice and gains a new set of abs. Ultimate work out.

 

[Deleted member]

For me personally, I just feel like there are more interesting options from Gen 7 than Incineroar. I mean, I understand he would obviously do wrestling moves, but that just doesn't really excite me when we already have characters that do stuff really similar to that. Plus, I always felt his design was kinda bland, and just another two-legged fire starter.

To each their own, though. I'm sure there are people who think the Pokemon I like look bland.

 

[Potato_]

The five stages I want?

Crafted World (Yoshi)
Coralcola Island (StarTropics)
Sylvalum (Xenoblade Chronicles)
Bowser's Castle (Mario)
Lorule (Zelda)

Ooh, this is an interesting topic.

My picks are:

Clock Town (Zelda) OR The Final Battle Platform from WW
New PokeFloats (Pokemon)
Radical Highway (Sonic)
Bowser's Castle (Mario)
Shibuya (TWEWY) (I know it ain't happening ) Venus Lighthouse (Golden Sun)

 

[Zinith]

Excuse me but

what the ****?

That wasn't months ago, that was a few WEEKS ago. I should know because it was immediately after the Yoshi remix upload

 

[LetterO]

Shadow, Isaac, Impa, Dixie and Chorus Kids might be saved for DLC, especially Chorus Kids if perfecting their gameplay is taking too long.

Assuming Chorus Kids were the scrapped RH character (which I believe they were), I doubt it'd take Sakurai this long (since Smash 4 development) to work on Chorus Kids. But who knows, I don't know how game development works.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Like I said. Dlc. Like mewtwo.
It is not cherry picking. I see it for what it is.

Give me a cas based on the current character ordering scheme and show me it makes sense. Give me the box that fits 73. Give me smashdown that relies on 73 or more.

Give me proof to change my opinion. Right now, everything points to 2 and dlc for the rest.

Best I’ve got. It’s the only thing that seems like a “probably” even though it does nothing as far as debunking the theory. It is kinda funny that it would be the last group of 9 that is missing a character and it’s also the most likely spot for any other type of logo, code, symbol or what have you.

Remaining neutral, of course.

 

[Misery Brick]

Like I said. Dlc. Like mewtwo.
It is not cherry picking. I see it for what it is.

Give me a cas based on the current character ordering scheme and show me it makes sense. Give me the box that fits 73. Give me smashdown that relies on 73 or more.

Give me proof to change my opinion. Right now, everything points to 2 and dlc for the rest.

I'm sorry, but that's literally confirmation bias.
There's nothing to suggest the fact that it's a DLC character.
Nothing from Verge has actually hinted or outright confirmed that.
You're cherry picking info to fit with the Box theory, when there's no basis to do so.
You either rely on Verge's claims, or use the box itself. Your debate immediately loses its grounds when you try to include both.

Also, keep in mind that the box is actually an unfinished mock-up.
The reason why we know this is because a cute dog isn't among the renders. Not to mention the fact we haven't seen the full design of the box.
Not to mention the game hasn't gone gold yet and that we're nowhere near the release of the game, so it's highly unlikely they would even know the full details of the roster to even point people towards it.

Those are the objective facts that heavily weigh against this theory.

Honestly, there's not much point in fighting the inevitable Pokemon newcomer. And with so many options, banking on one horse and hoping for it might be unwise since they are picked purely on the whims of Sakurai and the TPC, and not because of being any sort of fan favorite like other series.

Pokemon gets to do whatever it wants in Smash.

In no way am I hoping against Incineroar or fighting against it.
I don't understand where you're coming from or how you even interpreted that.

What I'm saying is, I just don't straight up care for Incineroar.
There's many other innately unique and interesting Pokémon from that generation alone, that I and many other people would rather see just due to their individual potential for a unique moveset, as Incineroar doesn't share those innate traits or abilities.

And this isn't because I don't like the Pokémon.
I love Greninja in the mainline games, same with Lucario, but I could really care less about them in Smash itself.
I just find them boring in terms of play-style and moveset.

If he's in, that's fine. I'll just ignore him and never pick him, maybe outside of Classic mode.
I'm just saying if Sakurai wants to actually convince and sell me and the rest of the general audience on him, he should at least have a completely unique moveset that we haven't seen before.
Otherwise, I'm sure he's mostly going to be passed over in a lot of people's eyes.

I just would personally be content if we didn't get any new Pokémon.

 

[WolfCypher]

In terms of what Verg has stated today in regards to Incineroar, Ken, and the Square character...........................

Okay, I'll bite. What was said today? I'm close to abandoning my personal "ignore 'leaks'" rule, and I went back 9 pages, saw no discussion in this thread.

 

[Nemuresu]

Like I said. Dlc. Like mewtwo.
It is not cherry picking. I see it for what it is.

Give me a cas based on the current character ordering scheme and show me it makes sense. Give me the box that fits 73. Give me smashdown that relies on 73 or more.

Give me proof to change my opinion. Right now, everything points to 2 and dlc for the rest.

Want a good reason to believe that the box may be wrong? Well, it's simple: when has something like that ever happened in another Smash game?
Artwork can always change over time just to squeeze more material in. It's not like, let's say, NRS games (MK and Injustice), where the CSS confirms the full amount of characters in the base. Here's one pic of Injustice 2's CSS from old E3 2016 footage:

Spoiler: Big Image

And now, here's the post-release (pre-DLC) version of it:

Spoiler: Big Image

No big changes besides that new space in the center made for Darkseid.

If Smash has a habit like that, then yes, we could probably deduce the final amount of newcomers, but so far, there aren't any reasons to believe there's only two characters left in the roster.

 

[Spatman]

While waiting for the blog post, let's take a moment to think about how Tom Nook was this close to being confirmed as an echo.

View attachment 164797

I'm happy he is not an echo: his characterization is very different from Villager's or Isabelle's, he wouldn't have fit with Isabelle's moveset (and Villager's too, imo).
Not always more quantity means more quality

 

[Idon]

The issue with Incineroar is that the CHAMP, MA-CHAMP, DESERVES THE CHAMPIONSHIP BELT.

HE CAN FLEX, AND THUMBS UP AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Best I’ve got. It’s the only thing that seems like a “probably” even though it does nothing as far as debunking the theory. It is kinda funny that it would be the last group of 9 that is missing a character and it’s also the most likely spot for any other type of logo, code, symbol or what have you.

Remaining neutral, of course.
View attachment 164803View attachment 164807

Hey. It is something atleast showing that space on the back can be utilized. I would argue about who would get the special treatment on the back. But it is something. My next thought is the CSS. how would it look to make sense.

I think collapsed is the proper way to show it, but that is just me. I do think that I have a solid idea of what it will look like, and it looks decent in both forms, but that states only 2 left.

But that is something to think about. Thank you.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Oh yea I probably should have mentioned this but

Vergeben suposivly got the claim who the SE rep is

He’s not talking because it ain’t concrete and he’s not gambling it being he wrong charactet

 

[Luigi The President]

Like I said. Dlc. Like mewtwo.
It is not cherry picking. I see it for what it is.

Give me a cas based on the current character ordering scheme and show me it makes sense. Give me the box that fits 73. Give me smashdown that relies on 73 or more.

Give me proof to change my opinion. Right now, everything points to 2 and dlc for the rest.

You are indeed cherry picking because you have no solid basis to found it being DLC other than the fact that it would clash with this Box theory. We could say Ken or Incineroar are DLC too. Doesn't make it true.

I don't believe Sakurai is going to compromise his roster for the sake of a neat roster. The Smash 4 3DS base roster was not a complete square. It was a square which loosened near the bottom.

I don't know why Smashdown would come into this.

 

[monadoboy]

The internet's a craaaazy place.

I've seen many instances of this happening, like the Steven Universe fanart incident, but this is such a petty reason to do it...

Anyway, to keep it Smash:


I HATE THE STUPID BOX THING

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I feel like Geno is a good character to be implemented in Smash because he could be a 3rd party RETRO character, the first one in this Smash series. He only appears on one game in which it is from the SNES. Super Mario RPG is released more than a decade ago and it is an influential game that inspired the Paper Mario/Mario & Luigi genre.

It is a misconception that retro characters only appears on the NES yet the SNES is around 30 years old. Geno could represent the SNES days of the RPG genre as the SMRPG is created by both Nintendo and Square, the latter created one of the most influential RPGs out there..especially the SNES.

Sure he only appears on one game (with some minor exceptions), but so does other retros such as Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers, etc. etc.

I do believe that Geno could fit the bill in the retro RPG genre rather nicely, especially with such fan demand.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I remembered something weird about the Smash ballot back in 2015, it said to state your gender which mostly likely affected the picked characters. What do you guys think?

Hmmm... Maybe Isabelle was popular among women?

 

[Murlough]

For me personally, I just feel like there are more interesting options from Gen 7 than Incineroar. I mean, I understand he would obviously do wrestling moves, but that just doesn't really excite me when we already have characters that do stuff really similar to that. Plus, I always felt his design was kinda bland, and just another two-legged fire starter.

To each their own, though. I'm sure there are people who think the Pokemon I like look bland.

I'm still a diehard Mimikyu fan. Any want I have for Incineroar only means so much.

If I could pick any mon left it would be Golisopod, free. Incineroar is cool but he doesn't hold a candle to Golisopod. People think Ridley is scary and I'm just here thinking about that bug.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Why are people against the idea of Incineroar in Smash again?

Honestly, I've started warming up to him (pun totally intended). Not that I was ever against him, but I'd have preferred Buzzwole or Decidueye for a Gen 7 rep. Then again, I actually never played Gen 7, so I think Gardevoir is at the top of my 'most wanted Pokémon' list (unless Arcanine was in any way possible - can he finally get a Pokéball please?)

Still, Bara the Tiger looks cool enough. It just does seem like he'll have a fire- and punchy- focused moveset, and we've already got two Captain Falcons in the game already.

Pretty sure that weird Toadette rmthing was just a way to make Peach playable in a game where Peach is captured and we're just reading too far into it. And didn't Nintendo confirm that Mario was human when asked about New Donkers before?

Boy is that power up bizarre though.

I wonder why they didn't just go and make Daisy playable to go and save Peach? Or have Daisy as the captured one? It's not like Daisy's been busy in Sarasaland lately... Or why not Pauline, considering Odyssey just brought her back into the spotlight?

On another note, if the CoroCoro thing is true, I'm hoping to see a true Bowser's Castle stage. I think I'd prefer Steve? and a Creeper AT over just a Minecraft stage, but one feels kind of boring compared to the potential.

We need a proper Bowser stage really badly.

I think that a Minecraft stage that was like SMM (random and destructible) would be cool, and Creepers would be natural Smash Run enemies if that mode decides to return.

But honestly, I say screw the box. It’s a mock up, and when has Sakurai ever given a crap about clean, round numbers that are easily divisible on a CSS, box or diagram?

Every time I see a CSS argument or theory like this, I just go back to:
SAKURAI: Ok, we finally got the game done with all 87 characters.
INTERN: But Mr. Sakurai, if I arrange the CSS like this, I have three characters left over!
SAKURAI: Cut them.
INTERN: ...What? But we spent months making these characters!
SAKURAI: Cut. Them.

 

[BrytonJ]

People on Reddit are really going wild about the Box Theory. Like, I don't know know if I believe it either but there's like three different posts on the front page of r/smashbros trying to debunk it and making a big fuss. Just seems like the anti-box people are going to look a lot more foolish if they end up being wrong than pro-box people will if they end up being wrong just based on what I've seen posted.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, I'll bite. What was said today? I'm close to abandoning my personal "ignore 'leaks'" rule, and I went back 9 pages, saw no discussion in this thread.

New Pokemon character is Incineroar, both Incineroar and Ken will be playable. A 2nd Square Enix character has been claimed by a supposedly trustworthy source, identity of the character is unconfirmed. A more sketchy source has come forward with a name, but Larry refuses to state it until it can be corroborated by his other sources.

 

[Luigi The President]

People on Reddit are really going wild about the Box Theory. Like, I don't know know if I believe it either but there's like three different posts on the front page of r/smashbros trying to debunk it and making a big fuss. Just seems like the anti-box people are going to look a lot more foolish if they end up being wrong than pro-box people will if they end up being wrong just based on what I've seen posted.

Lol, if the box turns out true, we all lose.

"Haha! You hoped we wouldn't stop at just 1 unique newcomer and 1 Echo. Well, you were wrong, and I was right, so hah!"

I definitely wouldn't relish in the pain.

 

[monadoboy]

People on Reddit are really going wild about the Box Theory. Like, I don't know know if I believe it either but there's like three different posts on the front page of r/smashbros trying to debunk it and making a big fuss. Just seems like the anti-box people are going to look a lot more foolish if they end up being wrong than pro-box people will if they end up being wrong just based on what I've seen posted.

Being right about the box theory would suck and it would be nothing to act smug about, tho, I'd rather be a hopeful fool tbh

 

[Starbound]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Vergeben is wrong and the box theory is right.

Excuse me but

what the ****?

Yep! He made a big reddit thread about it and got banned from r/smashbros and his Smashboards account is deleted too. He even made a thread detailing what happened, but it's gone now.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol, if the box turns out true, we all lose.

"Haha! You hoped we wouldn't stop at just 1 unique newcomer and 1 Echo. Well, you were wrong, and I was right, so hah!"

I definitely wouldn't relish in the pain.

Whoever wins, we lose. People will act smug regardless.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Vergeben is wrong and the box theory is right.


Yep! He made a big reddit thread about it and got banned from r/smashbros and his Smashboards account is deleted too. He even made a thread detailing what happened, but it's gone now.

So in this case you believe Incineroar and Ken won't be in, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[Slavic]

If we, by some divine intervention, do end up getting 5 more stages in Smash...

1. A Mario Party stage is one that I feel is a perfect fit for a game like Smash that I'm shocked hasn't gotten in yet. There's so many options; the stage could move around a board where the spaces have different battle effects, it could act like WarioWare, or even just emulate a specific board from one of the games. Mario Party has gotten shockingly little anything in Smash Bros.
2. Poke Floats 2 doesn't mandate any sort of an explanation, just a hilarious and fun stage.
3. We may already have a Xenoblade 1 stage and there are plenty of great locations moving forward in the series, but Eryth Sea is and probably will always be one of my favorite locations in any video game. It's just such a mystic, ancient feeling place with incredible music that brings Fountain of Dreams to mind for me.
4. Dr. Mario has always been a stage I've wanted in Smash, though implementation might be difficult due to walls and such. Making it an endless column that moves slowly up by building the stage out of pills would be very fun. Tetris could also work for this purpose, but I played way more Dr. Mario.
5. The Special Edition Box An Ecco the Dolphin stage. It could be on top of rocky platforms on the surface of the water with dolphins jumping out to knock fighters away, it could be underwater in the caves, it could even be on a spaceship, I basically just really want the soundtrack in the game.

obviously these are far from predictions, just the 5 stages I would add if given the reins

 

[Nethermoosen]

People on Reddit are really going wild about the Box Theory. Like, I don't know know if I believe it either but there's like three different posts on the front page of r/smashbros trying to debunk it and making a big fuss. Just seems like the anti-box people are going to look a lot more foolish if they end up being wrong than pro-box people will if they end up being wrong just based on what I've seen posted.

It really shouldn’t be a matter of who looks foolish or not. There are reasons to look at both sides, even if some folks haven’t seen all the facts.

People coming back and insulting the intelligence of others after the fact is a revolting practice for such an inconsequential issue.

 

[RandomAce]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Vergeben is wrong and the box theory is right.

Oh boy, you don’t the crucification that is coming your way if you say that... I don’t think this box theory is true.

Personally, I think we’ll get more than 1 unique fighter and echo. I don’t think the pokemon newcomer and Ken are the last ones and Sakurai has a couple of more to show us.

 

[Potato_]

People coming back and insulting the intelligence of others after the fact is a revolting practice for such an inconsequential issue.

People will take the pettiest reasons to feel superior over others.

 

[Starbound]

So in this case you believe Incineroar and Ken won't be in, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

Normally yes, but I think they're still the most likely newcomers even without taking Vergeben into account (the original echo and the SM concept art) given what's left about the box theory.

I had three things I felt were shoo-ins for the roster, being Inkling, Isabelle and a Gen 7 Pokemon, so I think that's basically guaranteed to be the last spot. And out of all the options the box leak allows for, Ken makes the most sense compared to Zack Fair or Medusa.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The issue with Incineroar is that the CHAMP, MA-CHAMP, DESERVES THE CHAMPIONSHIP BELT.

HE CAN FLEX, AND THUMBS UP AT THE SAME TIME.

I would take this Pokemon over Incineroar honestly.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Vergeben is wrong and the box theory is right.

Star bound doubling down on theories today! The bravery of the gamble! The nerve of the claims! Place your bets, people!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

There’s one Pokémon wrestler who can truly enter the world of Smash Bros

Spoiler

 

[Luigi The President]

Normally yes, but I think they're still the most likely newcomers even without taking Vergeben into account (the original echo and the SM concept art) given what's left about the box theory.

I had three things I felt were shoo-ins for the roster, being Inkling, Isabelle and a Gen 7 Pokemon, so I think that's basically guaranteed to be the last spot. And out of all the options the box leak allows for, Ken makes the most sense compared to Zack Fair or Medusa.

Thank you for this perspective.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Okay, I'll bite. What was said today? I'm close to abandoning my personal "ignore 'leaks'" rule, and I went back 9 pages, saw no discussion in this thread.

Basically, he confirmed specifically that Incineroar is the Pokemon that will be playable in the game, and doubled down on Ken.

He then elaborated on the fact that he didn't know if the "box theory" as it's been named is true. He was planning on speaking to his sources in order to figure it out.

Referring to the Square Enix character as an "exception", Verg said the source who provided that particular character (who he will not name) hasn't been wrong with Smash thus far. He thought it was interesting because only one source has said a SE character was coming, and that he would be looking to verify the information either way.

In addition, he believes that Ultimate will absolutely be getting DLC post-release.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Oh damn you know what Shadow Mewtwo would make a good Mewtwo Echo, or at least a color palette
Seeing as Namco's making this baby that could be how they actually get a Namco character in

An echo seems like a bit much, but he'd make for a great alt skin. Although if they did for some reason make him an echo, I'd like to see his shadow attacks do more damage at the cost of health, Pichu-style.

 

[Potato_]

The issue with Incineroar is that the CHAMP, MA-CHAMP, DESERVES THE CHAMPIONSHIP BELT.

HE CAN FLEX, AND THUMBS UP AT THE SAME TIME.

"And Machamp comes up to take the belt and... OH WAIT A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES"

"I'VE COME FOR YOUR TITLE MUSCLE MAN"