Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Morbi]

That is not Snake's most original move considering it is very similar to PK Thunder.

I would say Up Smash or the mines are, maybe even Down Throw, lol.

His dash was pretty original too. I mean, we are talking about Snake, most of his kit was unique.

Nah. They'll add him in Smash 6, after he made his playable debut as the secret boss character in 2022's ARMS: Second Punch.


He's not. He was kind of built up that way, but the real "main villain" was added as the last free update character, Dr. Coyle, who is actually implied to be Max Brass's ex-wife.
And also maybe Spring Man's mom but that's just a theory a game theory thanks for watching

That is awesome. I loved her design and did not realize there were any implications.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

The Koopalings with Bowser Jr. is one of the best idea in Smash 4. Why would anyone be against it? The only downside is the Final Smash being Shadow Mario.

 

[pupNapoleon]

If characters were mainly in to "represent" a series, as that was all it was about, then we'd be in trouble. Sakurai views this as a game first and foremost, and if something is in that doesn't, on a gameplay level, differentiate itself from another character enough, it doesn't end up playable.

I understand from where you are coming, yet I don't think it is fully accurate. To use your own example, after Chrom and Robin were explained by Sakurai, he specifically stated Robin had more of the "essence" of the series. That is completely confirming that the values of the world from which the characters come, the vocabulary, are greatly important. The fact that characters like Lucas and Ness, or the Star team, fight with great similarities, only furthers this idea- the characters do in fact represent their series, at least to some degree.

That said, they don't seem to primarily be chosen with this in mind. Though I do think that in some cases, such as Villager and Game and Watch, it is still an inarguable fact that they represent their series'.

Oh, trust me, I have been on the Meowth train for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. But if you miss that opportunity four times in a row and make them a Pokeball Pokemon, I doubt you seriously considered the possibility of the character and with the "take for granted" nature of the character, it is probably not going to be revisited.

Eevee, sure. But, Pokemon company likely wants to push a relatively new Pokemon. Unless they break the rules of evolution, I do not really see too much of an interesting character regardless. That is one of those Pokemon that screams "I should be in a Pokeball." Which I thought it was.

Technically with Mega Evolution, it evolved and that was reflected in Smash. I doubt Z-Moves would be translated or ultra-beasts. I am sure that Pokemon will continue to innovate with the Switch version. The inherent problem is the roster would have been decided awhile ago. Obviously Sakurai has insider information. Or beyond that, if he wants to bring Pokemon Trainer back, with or without his Pokemon, that would be sick.

To be clear, I am not saying it is unlikely. I am saying I personally doubt it.

I'd love for them to break the rules of evolution. Every time Eevee dies, it can evolve a new way which slightly changes it's characteristics. I think that is a fair balance of relating to the actual game, and also showing how important Evolution is within the Pokemon games. Eevee is constantly used for promotion, specifically to show off new ideas in the game. If gen 8 has more Eeveelutions, I see no reason it's day would not finally have arrived.

Meowth is also a constantly popular Pokemon. The fact that he is the second anime mascot will always help him to some degree. I do not think he will happen, but Pokemon, specifically stated to be different from other series in that the anime plays a key part of roster selection, will always have the option to add him. Especially if Sakurai finds a unique angle for him. Or has a sassy (Alola) form alt. That in itself is almost a reason he could be added for more effect.

That said- I would be curious to hear your perspective on my other points about why Fire Emblem transforms, and the fact that Mario and Pokemon do too, in the form of copious spinoffs.

 

[Chandeelure]

The Koopalings with Bowser Jr. is one of the best idea in Smash 4. Why would anyone be against it? The only downside is the Final Smash being Shadow Mario.

I don't know, for me Bowser Jr. is very boring, and not because he is not unique, obviously.
It is because he is not the real character, the Clown Car is, I don't know, I just don't like it.

I never liked the Koopalings and it feels kind of wrong that they are in Smash for some reason, they also look kinda bad with those tiny bodies.

They are also terrible competitively.

 

[Morbi]

The Koopalings with Bowser Jr. is one of the best idea in Smash 4. Why would anyone be against it? The only downside is the Final Smash being Shadow Mario.

I feel the opposite. The only reason I enjoy him is because of Shadow Mario. Do not get me wrong, the idea is great and I would be very surprised to see it go; however, I prefer Bowser Jr. to be Bowser Jr. and I feel as though his kit was generalized for the concept.

 

[Zzuxon]

I adore ARMS. It's one of my favorite Switch games, I've actually put more hours into ARMS than Mario Odyssey.

I don't want an ARMS character in smash 5. ARMS is a very new series that hasn't demonstrated it's importance to nintendo. There are many longer-standing series that are yet to be represented with a character, Advanced Wars, Starfy, Golden Sun, Custom Robo, etc. If ARMS were to get a new character, it would just be trendy and gimmicky.

That said, I would not be surprised if ARMS got a character. If it does, it will be either Spring Man or Ribbon Girl. Based on the marketing, cover of the game, etc. it is clear that they are conceptualized as the main characters. Also, they have the least flashy/distinctive special abilities, so I could imagine one being a costume change for the other, so that both could be playable.

 

[Opossum]

Spring Man definitely seems like the one they'd go for for an ARMS character. Min-Min and Helix would be awesome down the line in future games though.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I don't know, for me Bowser Jr. is very boring, and not because he is not unique, obviously.
It is because he is not the real character, the Clown Car is, I don't know, I just don't like it.

I never liked the Koopalings and it feels kind of wrong that they are in Smash for some reason, they also look kinda bad with those tiny bodies.

They are also terrible competitively.

I feel the opposite. The only reason I enjoy him is because of Shadow Mario. Do not get me wrong, the idea is great and I would be very surprised to see it go; however, I prefer Bowser Jr. to be Bowser Jr. and I feel as though his kit was generalized for the concept.

Aww, I love the Koopalings. I think they were more or less added at the time because Nintendo was pushing them a little bit with Mario Kart 8. Also, 8-Player Smash. You could be all of Bowser's children fight in one match. Ahhhh, sibling rivalry. Even though the Koopalings aren't Bowser's children anymore. When I was a kid they were so I'm sticking to it.

I don't think the dynamic will go anywhere. That's if Bowser Jr. even returns. I'm 90% sure he will, but if I recall he was very difficult to implement in.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't know, for me Bowser Jr. is very boring, and not because he is not unique, obviously.
It is because he is not the real character, the Clown Car is, I don't know, I just don't like it.

I never liked the Koopalings and it feels kind of wrong that they are in Smash for some reason, they also look kinda bad with those tiny bodies.

They are also terrible competitively.

Truthfully, if Bowser Jr. wasn't tied down by the Koopa Clown Car, he probably wouldn't have the Koopalings as his palette swap choices. But nowadays, he's pretty much all about machinery if he's going so far as to use his Koopa Clown Car to play Tennis (something that he never did at all in Mario Power Tennis).

 

[Morbi]

I adore ARMS. It's one of my favorite Switch games, I've actually put more hours into ARMS than Mario Odyssey.

I don't want an ARMS character in smash 5. ARMS is a very new series that hasn't demonstrated it's importance to nintendo. There are many longer-standing series that are yet to be represented with a character, Advanced Wars, Starfy, Golden Sun, Custom Robo, etc. If ARMS were to get a new character, it would just be trendy and gimmicky.

That said, I would not be surprised if ARMS got a character. If it does, it will be either Spring Man or Ribbon Girl. Based on the marketing, cover of the game, etc. it is clear that they are conceptualized as the main characters. Also, they have the least flashy/distinctive special abilities, so I could imagine one being a costume change for the other, so that both could be playable.

I believe that Nintendo can cultivate newer IP by promoting it, however. Arms has had relative success on par (well at least with fan reception) with Splatoon and the only reason Splatoon more or less got to prove itself was because the sequel was rushed. All I am saying is that most Switch owners who jumped on the Bandwagon would rather play as an Arms character than any of those other series... Combined.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Someone on the last page said we'll see double digit newcomers if this is a true Smash 5, and while I agree, I feel like there aren't many "likely" characters this time around, just because we're running low on big names.

The only characters that I'm sort of "expecting" or wouldn't by at least mildly surprised by are
- Rex
- an ARMS rep
- Decidueye
- FE16 protagonist
- K. Rool (because he presumably did really well in the ballot) or Dixie

Beyond that, there are ones I'd be a little surprised by (ex: Bandana Dee, Toad), but certainly wouldn't be expecting.

And I really like that. There are many characters with a lot of moveset potential, but most are on the same tier of what seems "likely" (in this echochamber at least). Most of the newcomer reveals this time around will be surprises to me, at least, which I really like.

Kind of rambling, but does anyone else feel the same way.

Honestly, sharing all the sentiments here. I kind of can't bank on much more chars aside from the ones you listed on the "expectations"-list - since they already have had the boat to hop on in last games, but weren't considered still. Doesn't make me "too" excited for the game like most have been as I've seen on the internet.

I mean, a curveball in old tradition by Sakurai will definitely be hitting us at some point, but I don't think I'd care in anyway incase it's insignificant or unrelated on changing the winds of consideration and chance for the characters I had been hoping to see in the last installments in anyway. I mean, I can understand obscurities and Japan-only stars, but it's kind of leaving me not only stumped on what to wait from the game, sinceI feel like I've seen everything the series has to offer by this point to be quite honest, but also wondering am I just to wait for the newcomers to show up and just... pick someone that appeals to me the most. That's basically how it went with , as much as I liked as well - though I think I allowed Smash-fandom to ruin her charm for me too much (though Chrom Robin-guidance didn't help back at the time).

After a multi-year hiatus from smash speculation... I have returned.

Remember Me?

Toad for Smash 5.

Hey there, long time no see! What's your adventure been like?

 

[Opelucid]

Man it feels like 2011 all over again when Smash 4 got mentioned.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

When Bowser Jr. was initially revealed, I was really excited. Jr is one of my favorite Nintendo characters and I've wanted him in Smash since his debut in Sunshine. Lemme tell ya, as a huge Jr fan, I was exceptionally disappointed to see I was actually just playing the clown car with koopa skins sitting inside of it. I would Like Jr to be separated into his own character and the Koopalings can keep the car.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

When Bowser Jr. was initially revealed, I was really excited. Jr is one of my favorite Nintendo characters and I've wanted him in Smash since his debut in Sunshine. Lemme tell ya, as a huge Jr fan, I was exceptionally disappointed to see I was actually just playing the clown car with koopa skins sitting inside of it. I would Like Jr to be separated into his own character and the Koopalings can keep the car.

The only problem is, without Bowser Jr., the Koopa Clown Car ends up being one palette short, and that's not good if 8-player Smash returns.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

The only problem is, without Bowser Jr., the Koopa Clown Car ends up being one palette short, and that's not good if 8-player Smash returns.

I mean I'm not saying my solution is a realistic solution, I'm really just voicing my disappointment with the design of one of my favorite characters.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I do kinda lean towards the idea that we don't have many really potential newcomers left, that could be reasonably expected or argued as to why they could/should be in the next game, at least.....but who knows, Sakurai always has a few tricks up his sleeve. I'm sure the majority of the community is gonna be in for at least a few total surprises in addition to some newcomers we have good reason to be confident in.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I feel the opposite. The only reason I enjoy him is because of Shadow Mario. Do not get me wrong, the idea is great and I would be very surprised to see it go; however, I prefer Bowser Jr. to be Bowser Jr. and I feel as though his kit was generalized for the concept.

As much as I love Shadow Mario, I don't think making Bowser Jr purely the Clown Car held him back in being fully represented.

Bowser Jr used the paintbrush for one game, and used tech and gadgets in pretty much every appearance afterwards. In fact, the paintbrush is a gadget itself. The Clown Car equipped with boxing gloves, a cannon, and a little slot that shoots out Mecha Koopas, represents Bowser Jr really well, always with some unique crazy contraption up his sleeve. Having Bowser Jr switch between the paintbrush and the Clown Car would be awkward, and it wouldn't be right to choose a weapon from one game over a variety-tool used in multiple.

But yeah, having all the other Koopalings have Shadow Mario as their Final Smash is weird. Maybe they could have a different animation for them, like having Shadow Mario jump on screen instead of the Koopalings just turning into him.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The only problem is, without Bowser Jr., the Koopa Clown Car ends up being one palette short, and that's not good if 8-player Smash returns.

That's easy.

Just let him take the final palette slot.

...

I'll see myself out.

 

[CannonStreak]

That's effectively what the Miis were.

Nah, they didn't even start out as Smash Bros characters, just avatars on Nintendo systems. With that said, they weren't exactly original Smash OCs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I mean I'm not saying my solution is a realistic solution, I'm really just voicing my disappointment with the design of one of my favorite characters.

I too am a bit disturbed with the way that Bowser Jr. is being treated now. It's as if you can't have Bowser Jr. without his Koopa Clown Car anymore.

 

[Opelucid]

I remember being surprised when Bowser Jr got in, I thought that Rosalina was the only new Mario character that would get in.

Also there was no mention of Bowser Jr in any of the leaks.

 

[Morbi]

I do kinda lean towards the idea that we don't have many really potential newcomers left, that could be reasonably expected or argued as to why they could/should be in the next game, at least.....but who knows, Sakurai always has a few tricks up his sleeve. I'm sure the majority of the community is gonna be in for at least a few total surprises in addition to some newcomers we have good reason to be confident in.

It is for that very reason that I am super enthused about the veteran roster. A lot of reason to suspect most will come back, and with Link's redesign and the fact that both he and Mario were silhouetted, it is relatively safe to assume we might see changes to veterans here and there. The dream of a Ganon rework might finally become a reality.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If we are getting an ARMS rep, it's going to 100% be Spring Man because he's the game's poster child. It's like having Pokemon but not Pikachu.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I remember being surprised when Bowser Jr got in, I thought that Rosalina was the only new Mario character that would get in.

Also there was no mention of Bowser Jr in any of the leaks.

If I recall correctly, Bowser Jr. did get spoiled before Smash 3DS was officially released.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I mean I'm not saying my solution is a realistic solution, I'm really just voicing my disappointment with the design of one of my favorite characters.

Personally, I like the way that Jr. Operates. Isn't it just like a spoiled brat like him to bring his new toy to the fight to show off and give him the edge? Same with any game where he's in the car. Otherwise Jr. would probably just be a worse Bowser clone.

I actually think the Koopalings were shoehorned in and that Jr. should've had additional color swaps for himself.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If I recall correctly, Bowser Jr. did get spoiled before Smash 3DS was officially released.

Well the full roster did get leaked via a screenshot before 3DS actually released.

Personally, I like the way that Jr. Operates. Isn't it just like a spoiled brat like him to bring his new toy to the fight to show off and give him the edge? Same with any game where he's in the car. Otherwise Jr. would probably just be a worse Bowser clone.

I actually think the Koopalings were shoehorned in and that Jr. should've had additional color swaps for himself.

I have made the comment before that if Bowser Jr. was all the color swaps, I wouldn't be upset. What upsets me is the Koopalings being all the other colors, thus degrading Jr's appearance in the game to a reskinned turtle sitting in the clown car.

 

[Morbi]

Well the full roster did get leaked via a screenshot before 3DS actually released.

There was game-play too. I remember most people thought Shulk was a project M mod of Roy. I believe people thought that his (Bowser Jr.'s) recovery move was just a reskinned Diddy jetpack.

Beyond that, I think there was a leak with Duck Hunt Dog that also had Bowser Jr.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I too am a bit disturbed with the way that Bowser Jr. is being treated now. It's as if you can't have Bowser Jr. without his Koopa Clown Car anymore.

I guess it's because there hasn't been much utilization to Bowser Jr's Paintbrush-persona anymore since Sunshine. He went fully mecha-happy on Galaxy-games, and NSMBW kind of went by that run via making him take over Bowser's Koopa Clown Car, though in his own super-deformed style. Not to mention we haven't even see Jr. in any of the mainline 3D Marios since Galaxy, either.

I have made the comment before that if Bowser Jr. was all the color swaps, I wouldn't be upset. What upsets me is the Koopalings being all the other colors, thus degrading Jr's appearance in the game to a reskinned turtle sitting in the clown car.

Eh, I still like how he has the "original" Koopa Clown Car, instead of a "mass-manifactured copy". I think it's the other way around for Koopalings, TBQH.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know, for me Bowser Jr. is very boring, and not because he is not unique, obviously.
It is because he is not the real character, the Clown Car is, I don't know, I just don't like it.

I never liked the Koopalings and it feels kind of wrong that they are in Smash for some reason, they also look kinda bad with those tiny bodies.

They are also terrible competitively.

Spring Man definitely seems like the one they'd go for for an ARMS character. Min-Min and Helix would be awesome down the line in future games though.

You both are exactly right.

Chandeelure:
I am glad to see someone not a fan of Bowser Junior as well. I am not saying he should be cut, I want him to stay. Bowser Junior really needs a change, he is very lacking for a character. He does offer a nice uniqueness for a character, but that is it. The Koopalings are fine, I just do not like their tiny bodies either. Like, their bodies are too small for their heads.

Opossum:
I would like Helix a lot. What made me agree with you the most is that you want Min Min, which would be my choice for an ARMS character as well. I love the dragon arms and how she is the best out of all the ARMS characters. In the ARMS tier list, Min Min ranks 1st out of all the ARMS characters. She also does have a nice design besides the Dragon arm, like the orange and green clothes and the yellow giant fighting sphere goes really well together.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

https://soundcloud.com/shiro-public/melee-sel-screen-smash-bros-switch

Thoughts on this?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I was initially disappointed that Jr. ended up using the clown car in Smash 4, as I personally wanted to see him using his paint brush (it's not like it never appeared again after Sunshine, though it only appeared in spin-offs from that point on) but in the end I was really satisfied with what we got. He's a quirky zoning character who can use many of his moves for a lot of different uses and tricks. I'm also glad that, and this is a mindset I've changed since 2014, he didn't just turn out to be some kind of lightweight Bowser clone.

Palette swaps would've been nice but I personally like the Koopalings so I can't complain that you can play as all eight of Bowser's kids (I don't care about the retcon. The Koopalings will always be his kids, too, in my heart).

 

[AadmM]

https://soundcloud.com/shiro-public/melee-sel-screen-smash-bros-switch

Thoughts on this?

Saw another take posted by someone on GoNintendo yesterday. https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/833prr/smash_5_theme_song/

My takeaway is that...it sounds like Smash! No one game in particular. Pretty hype either way.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I prefer Sunshine Bowser Jr. to the current one. I was a huge fan of his paintbrush attacks, Shadow Mario, summoning minions, Mario going to jail, poison paint, "Mama Peach", etc. Oh, and his bandanna, It was more notice-able on Kirby rather than Bowser Jr to me. I'm glad it was included in the game but I was not happy with it. I wanted Bowser Jr. to show it off more and be 100% Sunshine-inspired.

As for his development, I recall that he was added in at the last minute so he barely made it in (you can find the source if you dig through SourceGaming's Famitsu translations from Sakurai). To me, that explained his move-set and some of the bugs regarding the character, like teleporting around the screen if he gets hit out of clown cart at a certain time.

-

For Arms, I think if we do receive a character, that Biff may be the announcer for the trailer.

Edit: I told myself I was going to play a lot of Bowser Jr, but seeing all of the clown car attacks changed my mind; when playing the New Super Mario Bros. series, Galaxy series, and Paper Jam I was hoping for him to whip it out as a trump card but nope, we got the Clown Car and bombs.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

If we are getting an ARMS rep, it's going to 100% be Spring Man because he's the game's poster child. It's like having Pokemon but not Pikachu.

Ehh, I wouldn't go that far.

While I do agree that Spring Man is the most likely ARMS character, I do think there is a chance it will be another character that more people actually like.

Within the game itself, he'a treated rather equally compared to everyone else. He's kind of just another character, just happening to be the one on the front of the box. I don't think Sakurai would be afraid to pick another character that's more loved, like Min Min or Twintelle.

It's sort of vaguely like with Awakening, how Robin got in over Chrom. He and Robin were equally main characters in the game, but Chrom was on the boxart and was marketed more, but in the end Robin was chosen over Chrom due to him being more unique. Albeit, no ARMS character would be drastically different than Spring Man in Smash, and all of them would be unique from anyone on the current roster.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I understand from where you are coming, yet I don't think it is fully accurate. To use your own example, after Chrom and Robin were explained by Sakurai, he specifically stated Robin had more of the "essence" of the series. That is completely confirming that the values of the world from which the characters come, the vocabulary, are greatly important. The fact that characters like Lucas and Ness, or the Star team, fight with great similarities, only furthers this idea- the characters do in fact represent their series, at least to some degree.

That said, they don't seem to primarily be chosen with this in mind. Though I do think that in some cases, such as Villager and Game and Watch, it is still an inarguable fact that they represent their series'.



I'd love for them to break the rules of evolution. Every time Eevee dies, it can evolve a new way which slightly changes it's characteristics. I think that is a fair balance of relating to the actual game, and also showing how important Evolution is within the Pokemon games. Eevee is constantly used for promotion, specifically to show off new ideas in the game. If gen 8 has more Eeveelutions, I see no reason it's day would not finally have arrived.

Meowth is also a constantly popular Pokemon. The fact that he is the second anime mascot will always help him to some degree. I do not think he will happen, but Pokemon, specifically stated to be different from other series in that the anime plays a key part of roster selection, will always have the option to add him. Especially if Sakurai finds a unique angle for him. Or has a sassy (Alola) form alt. That in itself is almost a reason he could be added for more effect.

That said- I would be curious to hear your perspective on my other points about why Fire Emblem transforms, and the fact that Mario and Pokemon do too, in the form of copious spinoffs.

I should clarify...my point isn’t that characters don’t innately represent their series. That itself is a given. My issue comes from the fact that some fans simply say, “this character should get in to represent X game”, without any other context as to why.

A lot of choices that people are already repeating from the Wii U days are hitting the same wall. Toad is, once again, being talked about extensively. But if this is a game that focuses on unique move sets for new characters, why are we not throwing moveset ideas into the forefront? Having iconic characters is the point, yes, but not if they don’t have the ability to make somebody try them in-game.

You are right about the essence of the series when it comes to Robin. I think when Sakurai said that, he was also hinting at the fact that, alternatively, we would literally have 6 sword users from Fire Emblem if we hadn’t gotten Robin. That isn’t to say Chrom couldn’t have been made unique, or that sword users inherently aren’t unique. But for a series based on a weapon triangle and magic, Robin introduced a part of the series not previously explored and was fresh.

Robin was fresh because of the unique capabilities from which he came. I would say the reason he was chosen was because of an excellent combination of popularity, relevance, and unique set of abilities. I would also potentially throw in that he has lasting appeal, especially considering he's the most unique of his Fire Emblem peers on the roster.

As far as the Pokemon go, I do not disagree that Meowth and Eevee are popular. They always have been and surely always will be. But as far as a compelling moveset and design for a fighting game? There's where I feel Decidueye beats them. That's simply my opinion though.

 

[TumblrFamous]

https://soundcloud.com/shiro-public/melee-sel-screen-smash-bros-switch

Thoughts on this?

I think it's just a homage if anything. Doesn't seem like any kind of speculation that it has any tie to Melee. Tbh I barely hear the resemblance

 

[Diddy Kong]

It is for that very reason that I am super enthused about the veteran roster. A lot of reason to suspect most will come back, and with Link's redesign and the fact that both he and Mario were silhouetted, it is relatively safe to assume we might see changes to veterans here and there. The dream of a Ganon rework might finally become a reality.

Don't count your eggs too fast. Ganondorf also wasn't changed in Smash 4 at all when Zelda and Sheik split up. I expect absolutely NOTHING when it comes to this exact character.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Actually, the jank with Helix's tall mode would be fantastic, especially on stages with platforms.

https://soundcloud.com/shiro-public/melee-sel-screen-smash-bros-switch

Thoughts on this?

I don't know enough about music theory to say much, but didn't he add the thing that's connecting them? There's not just a single way to add harmonies, so the fact that it's essentially the same harmony is his own doing.
But I could be mistaken, he just isn't really thoroughly explaining the logic if there is any.

 

[Deleted member]

I was initially disappointed that Jr. ended up using the clown car in Smash 4, as I personally wanted to see him using his paint brush (it's not like it never appeared again after Sunshine, though it only appeared in spin-offs from that point on) but in the end I was really satisfied with what we got. He's a quirky zoning character who can use many of his moves for a lot of different uses and tricks. I'm also glad that, and this is a mindset I've changed since 2014, he didn't just turn out to be some kind of lightweight Bowser clone.

Palette swaps would've been nice but I personally like the Koopalings so I can't complain that you can play as all eight of Bowser's kids (I don't care about the retcon. The Koopalings will always be his kids, too, in my heart).

Me too. Bowser Junior does use the Paintbrush in only his Final Smash, but he can use it. I am thankful he is not a small faster Bowser clone either. As I said before, Bowser Junior offers uniqueness to the roster. His moves might need a change, as some of them are to laggy. Bowser Junior needs a buff badly.

 

[Morbi]

Ehh, I wouldn't go that far.

While I do agree that Spring Man is the most likely ARMS character, I do think there is a chance it will be another character that more people actually like.

Within the game itself, he'a treated rather equally compared to everyone else. He's kind of just another character, just happening to be the one on the front of the box. I don't think Sakurai would be afraid to pick another character that's more loved, like Min Min or Twintelle.

It's sort of vaguely like with Awakening, how Robin got in over Chrom. He and Robin were equally main characters in the game, but Chrom was on the boxart and was marketed more, but in the end Robin was chosen over Chrom due to him being more unique. Albeit, no ARMS character would be drastically different than Spring Man in Smash, and all of them would be unique from anyone on the current roster.

Conversely, in Awakening, both were main characters and Robin was actually more than just a protagonist in the first place. That is why I thought she would get in over Chrom even during the Gamatsu leak. Beyond that, Chrom was initially planned regardless and still appears in her assets (Final Smash, Victory Poses). Spring Man is just definitively the poster-child despite being treated equally. So, I would argue he is closer to Pikachu than Robin. That being said, I still agree with you. It might be going a bit far.