Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CannonStreak]

Does anybody know anything about this?

https://imgur.com/a/7R4wc

What I want to know is, does anyone find this to be believable? Just wondering.

 

[Cyn]

Please don’t let this conversation degenerate into a flame war. It’s obvious there is dissensus regarding Detective Pikachu. Nothing wrong with that, it generates discussion. However, since the argument isn’t amicable anymore, move on. If people strongly support Detective Pika, that’s fine, start a support thread in Newcomer speculation.

 

[Morbi]

I'd more wager that Fire Emblem is over-saturated and hasn't quite earned the right to be just yet. Sure, it's mega-watt famous now but it's a recent success and was on the verge of dying until just Awakening.

Pokemon has been on fire since 1996 with no real cool down. I put it this way really. If you're complaining about Nintendo putting more Mario and Pokemon reps in Smash Brothers. It's like going to a Disney amusement park gift shop and being appalled by the sheer amount of Mickey Mouse and Disney Princesses.

I am not complaining, I am pointing out facts. Historically, it tends to be a series that transforms relative to literally any other in the franchise. It has been refined over time and quite frankly, at the moment, there are no obvious Pokemon that merit inclusion which is why most people seem fixated on a gen 8 representative. And... we do not even know if that is the direction they are going. Grasping at straws, as far as I am concerned.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I predict Lip will be an unlockable character to represent the Puzzle League series. Come at me, naysayers.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Please don’t let this conversation degenerate into a flame war. It’s obvious there is dissensus regarding Detective Pikachu. Nothing wrong with that, it generates discussion. However, since the argument isn’t amicable anymore, move on. If people strongly support Detective Pika, that’s fine, start a support thread in Newcomer speculation.

Oh I'm not going to start a flame war.

I genuinely do like the guy. Don't mistake that as me being a smart ass.

I don't even truly support anyone this go around. The last game spoiled me support wise so I'm just here for the ride.

 

[PK_Wonder]

What I want to know is, does anyone find this to be believable? Just wondering.

Not really. Even five days ago, Inkling and BotW Link were two very easy predictions for anyone to make up, be they Port Camp or New Game Camp.

That post was made in April 2017.

 

[Morbi]

I predict Lip will be an unlockable character to represent the Puzzle League series. Come at me, naysayers.

That is honestly the best part of this game, because almost everything important has been covered, we can expect to see niche characters such as her. Well, unless he only adds about half the usual amount of characters.

 

[CannonStreak]

Not really. Even five days ago, Inkling and BotW Link were two very easy predictions for anyone to make up, be they Port Camp or New Game Camp.

If you say so. I personally don't believe this myself, especially since it is a bit too early to make leaks that are believable at the least. Plus, something seems funny about the leaker who posted this. I don't know what it is, but it makes me not trust him that much.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Inklings were the most obvious newcomers of all newcomers for the next Smash game.

You don't gotta be Nostradamus to know that.

 

[Cyn]

Oh I'm not going to start a flame war.

I genuinely do like the guy. Don't mistake that as me being a smart ***.

I don't even truly support anyone this go around. The last game spoiled me support wise so I'm just here for the ride.

It wasn’t directed at you in particular, I’ve just seen how these things start small, then turn into verbal infernos which result in threads getting locked for a cool down period. Seen it happen far too often. Don’t want that to happen. The best solution? Nip it in the bud, and herd the conversation in a different direction.

Side note: haven’t seen you around in a while. Welcome back.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

because she doesn't seem to fit in with all the other characters. shes seems out of place most of the time. also she is considered a broken character in competitive play so unbalances are another reason for her exclusion.

I can't say I agree with this statement. I think Smash is an eclectic mix of character archetypes spanning across all sorts of different genres in gaming. Bayonetta's game may not be as iconic as say Super Mario or Final Fantasy, but she was popular enough to "win" the Smash Ballot.

Also, the majority of Smash Bros players are not in the competitive scene. They play casually at home with friends and family. Also, balance issues can be fixed in patches, and since you mentioned the competitive scene, there are always characters that are going to be higher on the "Tier List" than others.

With Bayo 2 and Bayo 3 being Nintendo exclusive, and her "winning" The Smash Ballot, I don't see her getting cut in the next entry. Maybe some tweaks to her will be made, but all and all, I think she's here to stay.

It would kind of be a slap in the face to fans if Sakurai and Nintendo were like "Hey guys! Here's the Smash Ballot where you can vote for characters you would really like to see in Smash! What's that? A lot of you guys really wanted Bayonetta in! Well, her she is! She's interesting! She's unique! She's who you guys asked for anddddddddd we are going to remove her in the next game kthanxbye."

Just my opinion on the matter.

 

[RodNutTakin]

In honor of all this rampant speculation for this new Smash game, I'd like to take everyone back down memory lane when Sm4sh speculation was everywhere.

http://pleasesakurai.tumblr.com/

280 pages of Miiverse shenanigans, enjoy.

 

[Morbi]

Not really. Even five days ago, Inkling and BotW Link were two very easy predictions for anyone to make up, be they Port Camp or New Game Camp.

That post was made in April 2017.

Eh? After Sakurai blatantly ignored Skyward Sword Link and Zelda, presumably because Ganon was Demise, it was obvious that he was going to convert their designs despite Ganon more or less being an evil cloud? I was not getting that general vibe whatsoever. Maybe as a costume, but not as the default design. I was not around to see if that was more or less what people agreed upon, but if that was the general sentiment, there was not much logic behind it other than "BotW was popular."

 

[PK_Wonder]

If you say so. I personally don't believe this myself, especially since it is a bit too early to make leaks that are believable at the least. Plus, something seems funny about the leaker who posted this. I don't know what it is, but it makes me not trust him that much.

I was saying I don't believe it either 1) because the currently confirmed content of his "leak" was so obviously likely to happen so he has almost nothing in his favor right now. His now-proven statements were so vanilla there's no reason to consider him at this point, unless something more specific like his adventure mode comes true.

 

[DraginHikari]

Were Mii Fighters one of the main reasons custom moves were added? If so, then I can see them getting cut if custom moves get removed. Mii Fighters would be dull to play as without the customizability. :\

I want custom moves to come back though, because I LOVED the amount of options I could take for several characters.

I image they were likely the starting point for the custom moves as the custom moves as well as Palutena. As those are the only two character heavily dependent on them.

Do you guys think Elma has a chance even though Rex is 100% going to be the Xenoblade rep.?

Sakurai has made direct comments and praise towards Xenoblade 2 so I think it's probably a more likely possibility for Rex. X has some good elements in it absolutely, but I'm not sure the characters left enough impact to overwhelm the newness factor of Xenoblade 2 representation.

Not really. Even five days ago, Inkling and BotW Link were two very easy predictions for anyone to make up, be they Port Camp or New Game Camp.

That post was made in April 2017.

Frankly given how Splatoon took off (not my cup of tea, never played it myself), I'm pretty sure the only reason the Inklings were not made DLC in Smash 4 was probably because to use their elements proper would required more careful development time then the crew had during the DLC cycle on Smash 4.

 

[GroundZero996]

What I want to know is, does anyone find this to be believable? Just wondering.

A bunch of this stuff just doesn't make much sense. Callie and Marie? Why? And why get rid of the third party characters? Capcom and Nintendo are still on good terms, removing Megaman doesn't make sense because he's part of what hyped Smash 4. Same thing with Bamco. Rumors (are they even rumors anymore?) point to Bamco working on MP4 and Bayonetta 3 is coming exclusively (as far as we know) to the switch. I could see Cloud being removed, but even then... with Octopath Traveler coming to Switch that also doesn't make much sense. Honestly Nintendo has such great relationships with third parties right now... We're getting Crash on switch for heavens sake. Pulling 3rd parties from Smash now would be a slap in the face to all of these developers IMO.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

In honor of all this rampant speculation for this new Smash game, I'd like to take everyone back down memory lane when Sm4sh speculation was everywhere.

http://pleasesakurai.tumblr.com/

280 pages of Miiverse shenanigans, enjoy.

I don't think anything is going to top the shock of Cloud Strife. That had to be the most shocking reveal of all of Smash 4.

That and the sheer out of the box of Wii Fit Trainer will be hard to top this go around.

 

[CannonStreak]

I was saying I don't believe it either 1) because the currently confirmed content of his "leak" was so obviously likely to happen so he has almost nothing in his favor right now. His now-proven statements were so vanilla there's no reason to consider him at this point, unless something more specific like his adventure mode comes true.

Well, there is that, too. The obviousness did give it away, and he did have nothing in his favor. Plus, I still think it is a bit too early to make good leaks, considering we know not too much about the game right now.

 

[Morbi]

I don't think anything is going to stop the shock of Cloud Strife. That had to be the most shocking reveal of all of Smash 4.

That and the sheer out of the box of Wii Fit Trainer will be hard to top this go around.

Goku would probably do it. In general, if you establish something desired as impossible and do it regardless, that is what creates the surprise. I mean, if there was not such a hive-mind around Cloud, he would have actually been relatively obvious. But we all just had it in our minds that he was about as likely as Goku despite their overt differences.

Or Snake's return given the situation with Konami would probably personally surprise me in a different sort of way. Other than that, yeah, Cloud is probably the P4P champion in that regard.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I would be VERY surprised and pleased for his fans that Snake returned for sure.

Banjo-Kazooie joining despite Rare being at Microsoft would also probably do it for me personally.

 

[CannonStreak]

A bunch of this stuff just doesn't make much sense. Callie and Marie? Why? And why get rid of the third party characters? Capcom and Nintendo are still on good terms, removing Megaman doesn't make sense because he's part of what hyped Smash 4. Same thing with Bamco. Rumors (are they even rumors anymore?) point to Bamco working on MP4 and Bayonetta 3 is coming exclusively (as far as we know) to the switch. I could see Cloud being removed, but even then... with Octopath Traveler coming to Switch that also doesn't make much sense. Honestly Nintendo has such great relationships with third parties right now... We're getting Crash on switch for heavens sake. Pulling 3rd parties from Smash now would be a slap in the face to all of these developers IMO.

Yeah, pretty much. I would miss the third parties if they were not in, especially Sonic, since he is one of my mains. I don't see them removing third parties altogether, though. Like you said, it wouldn't make sense at all.

 

[PK_Wonder]

Eh? After Sakurai blatantly ignored Skyward Sword Link and Zelda, presumably because Ganon was Demise, it was obvious that he was going to convert their designs despite Ganon more or less being an evil cloud? I was not getting that general vibe whatsoever. Maybe as a costume, but not as the default design. I was not around to see if that was more or less what people agreed upon, but if that was the general sentiment, there was not much logic behind it other than "BotW was popular."

Default BotW Link may not have been a universal suspicion (in my experience most everyone expected at least a costume though), but I did see quite a few people come to that conclusion though.

I think it was more obvious than SS Link at least. SS was a great game that reviewed well years before SSBU. But BotW lit the world on fire in a viral way just a year before this reveal in ways SS never hit. Different likelihood and circumstances.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

I want to tell myself Wolf is super likely to come back but after what happened with Sm4sh DLC I don't know if it's wise to set myself up to be disappointed again.

 

[GroundZero996]

Banjo-Kazooie joining despite Rare being at Microsoft would also probably do it for me personally.

I mean, Microsoft did say they were willing to talk to Nintendo about it. It doesn't seem far fetched.

Yeah, pretty much. I would miss the third parties if they were not in, especially Sonic, since he is one of my mains. I don't see them removing third parties altogether, though. Like you said, it wouldn't make sense at all.

I could probably do without Sonic... or at least due with a Sonic make-over. I find him to be incredible bland to plan and frustrating to play against. I understand that he's iconic and some people like him and like his play style, but I probably wouldn't care if they didn't include him. I can pretty much say the same for Pacman and Megaman too, but honestly I feel like that's mostly because FG always being on FD + a little latency makes these fighters a real mood killer.

 

[Morbi]

Default BotW Link may not have been a universal suspicion (in my experience most everyone expected at least a costume though), but I did see quite a few people come to that conclusion though.

I think it was more obvious than SS Link at least. SS was a great game that reviewed well years before SSBU. But BotW lit the world on fire in a viral way just a year before this reveal in ways SS never hit. Different likelihood and circumstances.

I am honestly still concerned they will not give us Breath of the Wild Zelda. Skyward Sword Zelda was one of three things I wanted back then. I suspect the problem has to do with her model. They have to age her down. But with BotW Link, I have some renewed faith.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If characters who use swords are bad then we need to stop having characters who punch

 

[CannonStreak]

I mean, Microsoft did say they were willing to talk to Nintendo about it. It doesn't seem far fetched.



I could probably do without Sonic... or at least due with a Sonic make-over. I find him to be incredible bland to plan and frustrating to play against. I understand that he's iconic and some people like him and like his play style, but I probably wouldn't care if they didn't include him. I can pretty much say the same for Pacman and Megaman too, but honestly I feel like that's mostly because FG always being on FD + a little latency makes these fighters a real mood killer.

I understand. Personally, I like Sonic the way he is, except he could use more variety in his moves. BUT, if he is not in, then I would just move on from there. No biggie.

 

[Morbi]

I understand. Personally, I like Sonic the way he is, except he could use more variety in his moves. BUT, if he is not in, then I would just move on from there. No biggie.

I used to be a Sonic fan, way back when Sonic Battle Adventure 2 released. I was a fan before that and it was one of my favorite games of all time. Shorty after, however, I lost that spark. He was one of the coolest reveals for Brawl and yet, well, he is also one of the least fun to play. So despite all of my love for him, I actually would prefer him to go, it is just yet another reminder of how the mighty have fallen. I sort of put it on par with Sonic 06 in terms of failure. Almost every third party perfectly embodies their character or series. Sonic... Just spins. I mean, fair enough, but there is still a lot of missed potential.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Pokemon is becoming heavily over-saturated. I highly doubt we get two of them without omissions and as usual, Smash fans believe every single one of them deserves to stay despite this series having quite a high cut rate and low priority across the board.

Pokemon is Nintendo's second biggest franchise. Currently, it has 6 reps. Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario, and Greninja. Super Mario, Nintendo's biggest franchise (duh), has 7, and if you want to get technical, it has 11. Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, Wario, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong.

I don't think it's out of the question for Pokemon to go to 7 or 8 reps. It's not over saturation. It's milking the cow. People all over the world, and especially Japan, love Pokemon.

Now, that being said, you do bring up a good point. Pokemon normally sees cuts in new installments. However, had 3DS limitations not been an issue, I am not sure what Pokemon Trainer's fate might have been. It doesn't matter though. I'd say technically there were no cuts because we still have Charizard.

If there is a Pokemon cut, it will probably be Mewtwo (my beloved), but I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up as DLC again.

What I'm trying to say is. Pokemon is huge. It deserves a huge presence on the roster. 7-8 reps is not over doing it for the franchise. Any more, and then maybe we could call it oversaturation.

 

[Cyn]

If characters who use swords are bad then we need to stop having characters who punch

Yeah. The punchies can take a hike. Little Mac?

More like Little Getouttahere.

 

[DraginHikari]

A bunch of this stuff just doesn't make much sense. Callie and Marie? Why? And why get rid of the third party characters? Capcom and Nintendo are still on good terms, removing Megaman doesn't make sense because he's part of what hyped Smash 4. Same thing with Bamco. Rumors (are they even rumors anymore?) point to Bamco working on MP4 and Bayonetta 3 is coming exclusively (as far as we know) to the switch. I could see Cloud being removed, but even then... with Octopath Traveler coming to Switch that also doesn't make much sense. Honestly Nintendo has such great relationships with third parties right now... We're getting Crash on switch for heavens sake. Pulling 3rd parties from Smash now would be a slap in the face to all of these developers IMO.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying. But often time usage rights can sometimes have very little to do with company relationship and more involving a lot of corporate red tape. Usage of 3rd party characters come with all kinds of legal management and contract negotiation. So it simply depends on the 3rd parties decision on how to move forward with the use of their properties in a game not developed by them and how they can be utilized.

Now does Smash have a bit of an advantage given its popularity and the nature of the game, yes. But nothing is absolute when dealing with third parties. It's not always simply a matter of having a good relationship with a third party.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It would kind of be a slap in the face to fans if Sakurai and Nintendo were like "Hey guys! Here's the Smash Ballot where you can vote for characters you would really like to see in Smash! What's that? A lot of you guys really wanted Bayonetta in! Well, her she is! She's interesting! She's unique! She's who you guys asked for anddddddddd we are going to remove her in the next game kthanxbye."

Any character with a huge fanbase who gets cut can be considered just as much a "slap in the face" as Bayonetta's hypothetical cut would be.

I don't think anything is going to top the shock of Cloud Strife. That had to be the most shocking reveal of all of Smash 4.

A Smash OC would be more shocking than anything else people come up with. I'm sure that would be really well-received!

 

[Originality]

A Smash OC could actually be pretty cool, honestly.

 

[Morbi]

Pokemon is Nintendo's second biggest franchise. Currently, it has 6 reps. Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario, and Greninja. Super Mario, Nintendo's biggest franchise (duh), has 7, and if you want to get technical, it has 11. Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, Wario, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong.

I don't think it's out of the question for Pokemon to go to 7 or 8 reps. It's not over saturation. It's milking the cow. People all over the world, and especially Japan, love Pokemon.

Now, that being said, you do bring up a good point. Pokemon normally sees cuts in new installments. However, had 3DS limitations not been an issue, I am not sure what Pokemon Trainer's fate might have been. It doesn't matter though. I'd say technically there were no cuts because we still have Charizard.

If there is a Pokemon cut, it will probably be Mewtwo (my beloved), but I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up as DLC again.

What I'm trying to say is. Pokemon is huge. It deserves a huge presence on the roster. 7-8 reps is not over doing it for the franchise. Any more, and then maybe we could call it oversaturation.

I understand that it is huge. Most roster caps people envision are just arbitrary as is. I merely get the impression that the number is not necessarily going to go up this time and precedent seems to more or less support that.

Definitely not out of the question, but the bigger problem, realistically, is the lack of a focus.

I never got the impression that was the reason he was cut. But objectively, there were two cuts, Squirtle and Ivysaur. Those were two unique play-styles completely removed from the game.

Sadly I agree.

"Deserves" is probably not a word in Sakurai's vocabulary. He looks at it more from a "what can they offer" perspective.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Personally, I think a good start to character-specific discussion would be to kinda...turn away from the "representing" conversation.

This is the exact same stuff that happened during Wii U speculation, and it was always bad. A character can represent something, but ultimately we PLAY this game. It's not a gallery to look at (unless you only buy it for the trophies of course), and considering we need characters to be fun in order for the game itself to succeed, that's what we should ultimately focus on.

Considering that, characters should be a mix of popularity, relevant, and unique. Chrom wasn't added to Wii U because Sakurai didn't see something new in him. Robin wasn't necessarily as widely popular as Chrom might have been, but he was relevant, unique, and had a personality to boot. That made Sakurai seriously consider him, and now he's in Smash.

If characters were mainly in to "represent" a series, as that was all it was about, then we'd be in trouble. Sakurai views this as a game first and foremost, and if something is in that doesn't, on a gameplay level, differentiate itself from another character enough, it doesn't end up playable.

As far as Pokemon, I apply this to my opinion that Decidueye would be an excellent candidate unless Game Freak encourages a pick from Gen 8 (or whatever the Switch game is). I'm not sure of the specifics of a Decidueye moveset would be, but the Grass/Ghost archer idea, and the fact that he looks completely different from the rest of the cast gets me pumped for the possibilities.

Basically, be open to ideas. But let's try to keep the ideas flowing away from "reps" and toward "hey, you know what makes the game fun? HOW IT PLAYS!"

 

[CannonStreak]

A Smash OC could actually be pretty cool, honestly.

Yeah, I agree. In fact, I have always wanted to see a Smash OC playable since Melee. I would definitely play as that character.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Any character with a huge fanbase who gets cut can be considered just as much a "slap in the face" as Bayonetta's hypothetical cut would be.



A Smash OC would be more shocking than anything else people come up with. I'm sure that would be really well-received!

I agree with that. That's how I felt when Mewtwo was cut from Brawl. What I was trying to say was is that it just seems like an awful waste to have an official reach out to fans asking them who they'd like to see in future Smash titles, give them the character that tons and tons of people apparently voted for, and then drop her for no legitimate reason.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I agree with that. That's how I felt when Mewtwo was cut from Brawl. What I was trying to say was is that it just seems like an awful waste to have an official reach out to fans asking them who they'd like to see in future Smash titles, give them the character that tons and tons of people apparently voted for, and then drop her for no legitimate reason.

Disregarding what I feel about Bayonetta's chance of returning, what you said is pretty much correct. I still don't like the fact Wolf didn't return as DLC.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Wii Fit's trailer is the only trailer AFAIK that doesn't have the slash in the standalone version

You were discussing the trailer starting with the Smash Slash. Villager broke news of the game coming out at all.

I'm looking forward to some cross promotional trailers.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

A Smash OC would be....counter to what Smash is about would it not? It's a meeting of Nintendo icons and now since Brawl third party gaming icons.

Not sure an OC really would fit in. They would stick out like a sore thumb really.