Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mega Bidoof]

I don't think anything is going to top the shock of Cloud Strife. That had to be the most shocking reveal of all of Smash 4.

That and the sheer out of the box of Wii Fit Trainer will be hard to top this go around.

Banjo would cause quite a stir, in my opinion.

 

[Morbi]

Personally, I think a good start to character-specific discussion would be to kinda...turn away from the "representing" conversation.

This is the exact same stuff that happened during Wii U speculation, and it was always bad. A character can represent something, but ultimately we PLAY this game. It's not a gallery to look at (unless you only buy it for the trophies of course), and considering we need characters to be fun in order for the game itself to succeed, that's what we should ultimately focus on.

Considering that, characters should be a mix of popularity, relevant, and unique. Chrom wasn't added to Wii U because Sakurai didn't see something new in him. Robin wasn't necessarily as widely popular as Chrom might have been, but he was relevant, unique, and had a personality to boot. That made Sakurai seriously consider him, and now he's in Smash.

If characters were mainly in to "represent" a series, as that was all it was about, then we'd be in trouble. Sakurai views this as a game first and foremost, and if something is in that doesn't, on a gameplay level, differentiate itself from another character enough, it doesn't end up playable.

As far as Pokemon, I apply this to my opinion that Decidueye would be an excellent candidate unless Game Freak encourages a pick from Gen 8 (or whatever the Switch game is). I'm not sure of the specifics of a Decidueye moveset would be, but the Grass/Ghost archer idea, and the fact that he looks completely different from the rest of the cast gets me pumped for the possibilities.

Basically, be open to ideas. But let's try to keep the ideas flowing away from "reps" and toward "hey, you know what makes the game fun? HOW IT PLAYS!"

I mostly use it as a synonym for "character;" however, I definitely agree with your sentiment... to an extent. It is difficult to argue against certain characters more or less remaining to represent something in the more traditional sense. Marth, for instance. It is not the sole reason, mind you. I am just saying, it has been known to happen from time to time and that is why a lot of people misconstrue that notion as "criteria" when it is just a consequence.

Beyond that, unless Rex/Pyra offers something wholly unique, I am probably going to assume they were there predominately to represent Xenoblade 2.

 

[Aetheri]

A Smash OC would be....counter to what Smash is about would it not? It's a meeting of Nintendo icons and now since Brawl third party gaming icons.

Not sure an OC really would fit in. They would stick out like a sore thumb really.

That's what the miis are for anyway...

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

A Smash OC could actually be pretty cool, honestly.

Originality asking for original content. Color me surprised.

 

[Morbi]

That's what the miis are for anyway...

Speaking of which, I hope nothing more than for those freaks of nature to leave. With Miitomo failing, or whatever, I hope that the Mii craze is more or less dying down. But, hey, the DLC opportunities that they open up are likely to great to pass up.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I am not complaining, I am pointing out facts. Historically, it tends to be a series that transforms relative to literally any other in the franchise. It has been refined over time and quite frankly, at the moment, there are no obvious Pokemon that merit inclusion which is why most people seem fixated on a gen 8 representative. And... we do not even know if that is the direction they are going. Grasping at straws, as far as I am concerned.

There may be no 'obvious' Pokemon that merit inclusion (from your perspective- I'd greatly argue that long time characters Meowth and Eevee are oddly absent), but it is a series which has an extreme number of mechanics that have never been touched by Smash.

To quote my favorite Sakurai statement, Robin was added because he "completed the essence of Fire Emblem." The essence of a game comes down to the dynamics of the world and the characters within. The only thing we have from Pokemon is different typings which ultimately matter not at all. We have nothing about the gameplay of Pokemon represented in Smash Bros, and that specifically would refer to the mechanics of capturing monsters, but could extend to many other branches.

Ultimately, even if Fire Emblem's main games "transformed" the most, it did so because it had to do so. Pokemon and Mario were already so well received, they didnt need to change the formula, they simply made more, in the form of multitudes of spin offs. A game series so good it needs a dozen types of spinoffs is clearly more of a success, financially and commercially, than the ones that do poorly enough to require the main games to constantly change.

 

[GrownManJones]

How likely is an ARMS character? Even though the game never really took off they continue to support the title.

Master Mummy or Min Min would fit really well. If Beyonetta is DLC could you imagine her and Twintelle in the same pack?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'll just mention a few things that I want to see implemented...

1. Bring back the custom special moves, but don't have them be tied down by equipment; separate the two.
   • Also, make sure that each custom special move is practical enough to actually be worth using.
2. Bowser, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong receive their Mario series voice clips, made by Kenny James, Takashi Nagasako, and Katsumi Suzuki respectively.
3. I know that this is getting rather annoying to bring up by now, but if Giga Bowser returns as Bowser's Final Smash, give him a far more significant power boost to compensate for his inability to use most items, or be affected by size-changing items. Giga Mac got away with being a destructive powerhouse, and he too can't use items, nor can his size be changed.
4. Bring back Smash Run. The Nintendo Switch would work great with that game mode, especially if multiple Nintendo Switch systems are used for multiplayer action.
   • Smash Tour can die for all I care.
5. If Bowser Jr. returns, give him 7 extra palette swap options that are NOT the Koopalings. Of course, the Koopalings would still be around, giving Bowser Jr. a total of 15 palettes.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

You were discussing the trailer starting with the Smash Slash. Villager broke news of the game coming out at all.

I'm looking forward to some cross promotional trailers.

My theory is that if this trailer were for Smash 4 then it would have the slash at the beginning. Wii Fit's doesn't have a slash so I dunno.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Someone on the last page said we'll see double digit newcomers if this is a true Smash 5, and while I agree, I feel like there aren't many "likely" characters this time around, just because we're running low on big names.

The only characters that I'm sort of "expecting" or wouldn't by at least mildly surprised by are
- Rex
- an ARMS rep
- Decidueye
- FE16 protagonist
- K. Rool (because he presumably did really well in the ballot) or Dixie

Beyond that, there are ones I'd be a little surprised by (ex: Bandana Dee, Toad), but certainly wouldn't be expecting.

And I really like that. There are many characters with a lot of moveset potential, but most are on the same tier of what seems "likely" (in this echochamber at least). Most of the newcomer reveals this time around will be surprises to me, at least, which I really like.

Kind of rambling, but does anyone else feel the same way.

 

[Luminario]

I am not complaining, I am pointing out facts. Historically, it tends to be a series that transforms relative to literally any other in the franchise. It has been refined over time and quite frankly, at the moment, there are no obvious Pokemon that merit inclusion which is why most people seem fixated on a gen 8 representative. And... we do not even know if that is the direction they are going. Grasping at straws, as far as I am concerned.

I get what you're saying, but out of all the series in Smash to be oversaturated I'd say Mario and Pokemon are allowed that honour. People who are jumping ship for a Gen 8 rep are simply viewing past patterns and want to be right, and half of them are voting for the specific Gen 8 grass starter without even seeing it so we know where their priorities lie.

 

[Mogu]

If Bowser Jr. returns, give him 7 extra palette swap options that are NOT the Koopalings. Of course, the Koopalings would still be around, giving Bowser Jr. a total of 15 palettes.

What do you think about making the 16th palette swap (alt costume in this case) Boom Boom or some other Koopa that's notable? Would be strange to not go for 16 IMO.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I believe Spring Man is going to be in Sma5h. Inklings represent the brand new franchise on the Wii U. Spring Man represents the brand new franchise on the Switch.

 

[Morbi]

There may be no 'obvious' Pokemon that merit inclusion (from your perspective- I'd greatly argue that long time characters Meowth and Eevee are oddly absent), but it is a series which has an extreme number of mechanics that have never been touched by Smash.

To quote my favorite Sakurai statement, Robin was added because he "completed the essence of Fire Emblem." The essence of a game comes down to the dynamics of the world and the characters within. The only thing we have from Pokemon is different typings which ultimately matter not at all. We have nothing about the gameplay of Pokemon represented in Smash Bros, and that specifically would refer to the mechanics of capturing monsters, but could extend to many other branches.

Ultimately, even if Fire Emblem's main games "transformed" the most, it did so because it had to do so. Pokemon and Mario were already so well received, they didnt need to change the formula, they simply made more, in the form of multitudes of spin offs. A game series so good it needs a dozen types of spinoffs is clearly more of a success, financially and commercially, than the ones that do poorly enough to require the main games to constantly change.

Oh, trust me, I have been on the Meowth train for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. But if you miss that opportunity four times in a row and make them a Pokeball Pokemon, I doubt you seriously considered the possibility of the character and with the "take for granted" nature of the character, it is probably not going to be revisited.

Eevee, sure. But, Pokemon company likely wants to push a relatively new Pokemon. Unless they break the rules of evolution, I do not really see too much of an interesting character regardless. That is one of those Pokemon that screams "I should be in a Pokeball." Which I thought it was.

Technically with Mega Evolution, it evolved and that was reflected in Smash. I doubt Z-Moves would be translated or ultra-beasts. I am sure that Pokemon will continue to innovate with the Switch version. The inherent problem is the roster would have been decided awhile ago. Obviously Sakurai has insider information. Or beyond that, if he wants to bring Pokemon Trainer back, with or without his Pokemon, that would be sick.

To be clear, I am not saying it is unlikely. I am saying I personally doubt it.

 

[Aetheri]

How likely is an ARMS character? Even though the game never really took off they continue to support the title.

Master Mummy or Min Min would fit really well. If Beyonetta is DLC could you imagine her and Twintelle in the same pack?

I think it's fairly likely...

I would prefer Min Min personally, she's my main and favourite character in the game...but Spring Man and/or Ribbon Girl are the two poster children of the game and are more likely...

An Arms character in general would be a very unique addition even if we're going with the basic fi8ghters in the game...

 

[GroundZero996]

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying. But often time usage rights can sometimes have very little to do with company relationship and more involving a lot of corporate red tape. Usage of 3rd party characters come with all kinds of legal management and contract negotiation. So it simply depends on the 3rd parties decision on how to move forward with the use of their properties in a game not developed by them and how they can be utilized.

Now does Smash have a bit of an advantage given its popularity and the nature of the game, yes. But nothing is absolute when dealing with third parties. It's not always simply a matter of having a good relationship with a third party.

I'm pretty sure when Nintendo was getting the rights for these characters in Smash though they would've included the next Smash project they were working on since they were hiring for a new smash project before the first one had even been released.

A Smash OC would be....counter to what Smash is about would it not? It's a meeting of Nintendo icons and now since Brawl third party gaming icons.

Not sure an OC really would fit in. They would stick out like a sore thumb really.

Like the boss from Subspace?

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I would not mind Primid to be a playable character. It would be a Smash OC. He could use the rocket launcher as side B, so that way, Snakes most original move is given over to another character.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You know Ridley would actually shock me at this point too come to think of it.

If say at E3 they had more on Prime 4 and then a Ridley Smash Reveal trailer? I might **** a brick.

 

[GrownManJones]

I think it's fairly likely...

I would prefer Min Min personally, she's my main and favourite character in the game...but Spring Man and/or Ribbon Girl are the two poster children of the game and are more likely...

An Arms character in general would be a very unique addition even if we're going with the basic fi8ghters in the game...

Hopefully they are too similar to Little Mac and too vanilla. I do agree they are the poster child's and the safe pick.

Do you think the announcer Bif has a chance? I think his style is truly perfect for the game.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

What do you think about making the 16th palette swap (alt costume in this case) Boom Boom or some other Koopa that's notable? Would be strange to not go for 16 IMO.

I like Boom Boom as much as the next guy, but I'd rather not have him in the clown car alongside all the Koopalings, as he's neither ridden the Clown Car nor been really associated with the Koopalings.

I'd rather have 15 costumes for Jr. than have Boom Boom awkwardly tossed in there. "Bowser Jr, The Koopalings, and Boom Boom" doesn't really have the same ring as just "Bowser Jr and The Koopalings."

I'm down for a Boom Boom assist trophy where he just acts like he does in SMW.

 

[Morbi]

I'll just mention a few things that I want to see implemented...

1. Bring back the custom special moves, but don't have them be tied down by equipment; separate the two.
   • Also, make sure that each custom special move is practical enough to actually be worth using.
2. Bowser, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong receive their Mario series voice clips, made by Kenny James, Takashi Nagasako, and Katsumi Suzuki respectively.
3. I know that this is getting rather annoying to bring up by now, but if Giga Bowser returns as Bowser's Final Smash, give him a far more significant power boost to compensate for his inability to use most items, or be affected by size-changing items. Giga Mac got away with being a destructive powerhouse, and he too can't use items, nor can his size be changed.
4. Bring back Smash Run. The Nintendo Switch would work great with that game mode, especially if multiple Nintendo Switch systems are used for multiplayer action.
   • Smash Tour can die for all I care.
5. If Bowser Jr. returns, give him 7 extra palette swap options that are NOT the Koopalings. Of course, the Koopalings would still be around, giving Bowser Jr. a total of 15 palettes.

Honestly, as he never developed DLC customs and barely balanced the existing ones, I doubt they will return.

Yes, please. Their voices always bothered me. Not sure how likely that is because, well...

Why not? I do not use Smash attacks, but that is another element I would want balanced.

Smash Tour is dead. In our hearts.

Not sure why that was not already the case. Little Mac got extra skins.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I understand that it is huge. Most roster caps people envision are just arbitrary as is. I merely get the impression that the number is not necessarily going to go up this time and precedent seems to more or less support that.

Definitely not out of the question, but the bigger problem, realistically, is the lack of a focus.

I never got the impression that was the reason he was cut. But objectively, there were two cuts, Squirtle and Ivysaur. Those were two unique play-styles completely removed from the game.

Sadly I agree.

"Deserves" is probably not a word in Sakurai's vocabulary. He looks at it more from a "what can they offer" perspective.

Yeah, you're right about Squirtle and Ivysaur. In their case, I just don't think the popularity is there. They have their fanbase, but Charizard has always been incredibly popular. Also, with the Pokemon reps, you have to take into account their presence in the show, not just the games. Pikachu is the mascot of the franchise so of course he's in. Jigglypuff is an OG12, and had her presence back in the day. You can't tell me Charizard isn't based off Ash's Charizard. Especially with the spitting of the ember. Lucario and Mewtwo both speak like they do in the anime. The only thing that goes against my argument is that Greninja was chosen before Ash had him, and even before X and Y came out.

The most likely cuts for Pokemon are Mewtwo or Greninja. I will be devastated if Mewtwo is cut, but that's how it goes sometimes. I'll just have to hope for him to come back as DLC again. Which I would gladly pay for.

Pokemon will get a new rep from the start though. Either Decidueye or Mimikyu (who I prefer), and may even possibly a Gen VIII Pokemon as DLC later on for promotional purposes. I could see Pokemon having up to 8 reps, but that's just me. I'm trying to hold my bias back because I loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Pokemon.

Disregarding what I feel about Bayonetta's chance of returning, what you said is pretty much correct. I still don't like the fact Wolf didn't return as DLC.

Well, here's to hoping Mewtwo, Bayonetta, and Wolf come back. I hope they pull a "Dr.Mario" for Wolf this time around. I don't particularly care for his inclusion, I am not against it. I know he is highly requested, and loved by many. So, cheers! *tink*

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Hopefully they are too similar to Little Mac and too vanilla. I do agree they are the poster child's and the safe pick.

Do you think the announcer Bif has a chance? I think his style is truly perfect for the game.

Why would you pick Bif, the guy who announces things, over Spring Man, the literal poster child for ARMS and someone in the game who fights?

 

[Aetheri]

Hopefully they are too similar to Little Mac and too vanilla. I do agree they are the poster child's and the safe pick.

Do you think the announcer Bif has a chance? I think his style is truly perfect for the game.

Bif may make some kind of appearance but not as a playable character...one of the fighters in the game will come first cuz they are the ones with the stretchy arms gimmick that the game focuses on...And I doubt the game will get two characters outside of alternates...

 

[Zzuxon]

After a multi-year hiatus from smash speculation... I have returned.

Remember Me?

Toad for Smash 5.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Yeah, I agree. In fact, I have always wanted to see a Smash OC playable since Melee. I would definitely play as that character.

That's effectively what the Miis were.

 

[DraginHikari]

I'm pretty sure when Nintendo was getting the rights for these characters in Smash though they would've included the next Smash project they were working on since they were hiring for a new smash project before the first one had even been released.

That's merely an assumption, nothing more. We have no information on the nature of the contract done by Nintendo and the 3rd parties in this situation so as such it's still all speculation. I've just seen enough corporate red tape make messes out of things enough to know that nothing is absolute when your dealing without outside entities as the 3rd parties are in this case.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah, you're right about Squirtle and Ivysaur. In their case, I just don't think the popularity is there. They have their fanbase, but Charizard has always been incredibly popular. Also, with the Pokemon reps, you have to take into account their presence in the show, not just the games. Pikachu is the mascot of the franchise so of course he's in. Jigglypuff is an OG12, and had her presence back in the day. You can't tell me Charizard isn't based off Ash's Charizard. Especially with the spitting of the ember. Lucario and Mewtwo both speak like they do in the anime. The only thing that goes against my argument is that Greninja was chosen before Ash had him, and even before X and Y came out.

The most likely cuts for Pokemon are Mewtwo or Greninja. I will be devastated if Mewtwo is cut, but that's how it goes sometimes. I'll just have to hope for him to come back as DLC again. Which I would gladly pay for.

Pokemon will get a new rep from the start though. Either Decidueye or Mimikyu (who I prefer), and may even possibly a Gen VIII Pokemon as DLC later on for promotional purposes. I could see Pokemon having up to 8 reps, but that's just me. I'm trying to hold my bias back because I loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Pokemon.



Well, here's to hoping Mewtwo, Bayonetta, and Wolf come back. I hope they pull a "Dr.Mario" for Wolf this time around. I don't particularly care for his inclusion, I am not against it. I know he is highly requested, and loved by many. So, cheers! *tink*

I definitely agree, but despite that, I have to imagine if Greninja returns, they will skip Ash Greninja, lmfao. It is loosely based on the anime, but giving him Ash's hair might be a bit too far.

It sucks, but he was basically cut twice. Hard not to see it coming for the third time. Fool me once, right?

Yo, Mimikyu would be sick! He might actually work, I remember all the hype for Sun and Moon was largely focused on him. I do not mind Decidueye in the slightest, I am just not really seeing why other than his Pokken appearance. Other than that, it is probably the pattern that literally has no bearing on Sakurai's choice.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

How likely is an ARMS character? Even though the game never really took off they continue to support the title.

Master Mummy or Min Min would fit really well. If Beyonetta is DLC could you imagine her and Twintelle in the same pack?

Pretty likely. I'd be mildly surprised if we don't see an ARMS newcomer, but also not that surprised because there's always a chance they can't make it work well gameplay-wise.

In terms of who it is, I'm expecting either Spring Man (because marketed as the "main" character) or Twintelle (because popularity and female rep).

I could also see Ribbon Girl or Min Min. I would be kinda surprised if it was one of the heavyweights like Master Mummy or Max Brass. I think an ARMS character in Smash would be about being fast and agile and delivering quick punches, and being big and heavy would take away from that. Maybe as a heavier semi-clone they toss in late development though. Total speculation.

 

[GrownManJones]

Why would you pick Bif, the guy who announces things, over Spring Man, the literal poster child for ARMS and someone in the game who fights?

Because he is a handsome man that wants his chance in the ring.

In all seriousness his style is great for Smash, even if just an assist or trophy. No way he gets in over an actual ARMS character for the reasons Aetheri mentioned.

 

[AadmM]

I still stand by Min Min being the best choice for and ARMS fighter. Sure, others could be made to work, but she already has all the workings to begin with, being one of the only characters that does more than punch!

Ribbon Girl might be neat too tho, being a human character with jump/recovery ability like Kirby and Jiggs.

I look forward to seeing who we get either way. Someone's gonna happen!

 

[Mega Bidoof]

After a multi-year hiatus from smash speculation... I have returned.

Oh hey! Welcome back!

Remember Me?

Don't remind me that's Anthony Higgs has no chance for this new game.

Toad for Smash 5.

I've said this before, but he's honestly the most iconic Nintendo character that has yet to be playable. I get that they had Peach and Bowser to add in Melee, but he should've been added in Brawl. Just replace Peach's special with Toadsworth, since he's her steward, and make the main Toad playable.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

When people think of ARMS, they think of Spring Man. I didn't even remember Min Min or any other fighter besides Spring Man was a thing until someone here mentioned it.

 

[Morbi]

Pretty likely. I'd be mildly surprised if we don't see an ARMS newcomer, but also not that surprised because there's always a chance they can't make it work well gameplay-wise.

In terms of who it is, I'm expecting either Spring Man (because marketed as the "main" character) or Twintelle (because popularity and female rep).

I could also see Ribbon Girl or Min Min. I would be kinda surprised if it was one of the heavyweights like Master Mummy or Max Brass. I think an ARMS character in Smash would be about being fast and agile and delivering quick punches, and being big and heavy would take away from that. Maybe as a heavier semi-clone they toss in late development though. Total speculation.

If they can manage to brink the ink dive mechanic to the game, I have to imagine Dhalsim is going to be a piece of cake. I personally expect my boy Spring Man with a Ribbon Girl alternative. And well, Spring Man is the only newcomer outside of Black Shadow that I have a personal investment for. One is basically confirmed, the other has been rotting for over a decade. I am putting all my chips on my man.

I have never played the game, but I believe Max Brass is the main antagonist, so it could work. As far as I am aware, he is basically the Shang Tsung of the universe.

 

[Staarih]

Why would you pick Bif, the guy who announces things, over Spring Man, the literal poster child for ARMS and someone in the game who fights?

I'd like to see Biff have a role as a commentator on an potential (inevitable?) ARMS stage where he comments the fighters (so, new version of Snake's codecs and/or Palutena's Guidance).

Spring Man for the actual fighter, though.

 

[Chandeelure]

I would not mind Primid to be a playable character. It would be a Smash OC. He could use the rocket launcher as side B, so that way, Snakes most original move is given over to another character.

That is not Snake's most original move considering it is very similar to PK Thunder.

I would say Up Smash or the mines are, maybe even Down Throw, lol.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What do you think about making the 16th palette swap (alt costume in this case) Boom Boom or some other Koopa that's notable? Would be strange to not go for 16 IMO.

Bowser Jr. would basically be unique for being the only fighter to have only 15 palettes, since the Koopalings wouldn't receive any recolors at all. All the other fighters with alternate character options would have 16 palettes, which would be the case for Wario (WarioWare and Classic), Little Mac (Normal and Wireframe), Robin (male and female), Olimar (if Alph stays as an Olimar palette swap), Wii Fit Trainer (female and male), Corrin (male and female), and Bayonetta (Bayonetta 2 appearance and original appearance). I would say the same thing for Cloud, but his chances of returning are very sketchy with how strict Square Enix can be with its property.

On a side note, if Bowser gets a Dry Bowser palette, he'd be fair game to have 16 palettes (8 for Bowser, and 8 for Dry Bowser).

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Do you think the announcer Bif has a chance? I think his style is truly perfect for the game.

Nah. They'll add him in Smash 6, after he made his playable debut as the secret boss character in 2022's ARMS: Second Punch.

I have never played the game, but I believe Max Brass is the main antagonist, so it could work. As far as I am aware, he is basically the Shang Tsung of the universe.

He's not. He was kind of built up that way, but the real "main villain" was added as the last free update character, Dr. Coyle, who is actually implied to be Max Brass's ex-wife.
And also maybe Spring Man's mom but that's just a theory a game theory thanks for watching

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Yo, Mimikyu would be sick! He might actually work, I remember all the hype for Sun and Moon was largely focused on him.

He would, and he would be a great addition, but as others have pointed out, Pokemon in general is a series very well-suited for Smash. If they made a spinoff or something where it was half or entirely Pokemon, they'd probably still manage to have more variety than Smash currently has. You could legitimately have a cast of 70 with them all being very distinct and deliberation being required over who gets a spot (not that I'm saying a number that high would be a good idea).
But Pokken already exists, so something like that probably isn't happening this decade, if ever.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I definitely agree, but despite that, I have to imagine if Greninja returns, they will skip Ash Greninja, lmfao. It is loosely based on the anime, but giving him Ash's hair might be a bit too far.

It sucks, but he was basically cut twice. Hard not to see it coming for the third time. Fool me once, right?

Yo, Mimikyu would be sick! He might actually work, I remember all the hype for Sun and Moon was largely focused on him. I do not mind Decidueye in the slightest, I am just not really seeing why other than his Pokken appearance. Other than that, it is probably the pattern that literally has no bearing on Sakurai's choice.

Hey, they put Ash-Greninja in Sun and Moon. Why not Smash? XD.

Mewtwo is one of my mains. I love him. He is in such a weird spot though it feels like. He was supposed to be in 64. He was in Melee. He was so close to being in Brawl, but was cut due to time constraints. Then, he was in Wii U/3DS, but as DLC, and with that it like did Sakurai want him in the original roster, and was just pressed for time, or was he like "Oh, and here's Mewtwo" as an afterthought. I know Mewtwo is beloved amongst Pokemon and Smash fans alike so hopefully he'll be back. It just seems like Sakurai doesn't give Mewtwo the time, and that's what worries me.

As for Mimikyu. I'd prefer him over Decidueye. I don't understand this need to complete the starter typing trio. Mimikyu is just adorable, and a "Let's Snuggle Forever" Final Smash. Yesssssssssssssssssssssssss.