Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[IGuessItsOver]

If the SE isn't Geno, then it should be lil' Goku

 

[AndreaAC]

Pong is killable lmao

YOU CAN KILL PONG pic.twitter.com/WrnulrONdc

— wehngo (@wehngo_smacks) September 16, 2018

Killing Assist Trophies with Riddles is going utterly fun. :V Can't wait to kill that damn Bunny.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yeah, i hope his shoryuken has fire sprites and deals damage over time, that would be perfect.

Yes to all the words you just said

Think there’ll be a SR mod for Varia Suit Samus? I’m not just about the fanservice, that suit is BADASS :D

They had time to make BOTW Link and content from Odyssey and Splatoon 2 (Cappy, NDC, Lil Judd, Jump Up Superstar), so adding the Varia Suit couldn’t be hard to do

also having this as a ZSS alt would be great

Spoiler: I want this

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Don't you also get a point if you KO assist trophies? It's kind of concerning how easily Pong gets killed, seems more of hindrance than help if your opponent can basically get a free point. At least in time mode, not exactly sure how KO'd assist trophies work in Stock or Stamina.

They probably wouldn't have the same bonus, or.....any additional bonus, really, as you've got nothing to score from. It's all about survival instead.

Considering that, I wouldn't be too worried about it.

 

[Paperchampion23]

No. Box Theory doesn’t need Ken. It just needs an unknown character tile mixed in with confirmed fighters(aka an echo). And it does.

If we got Medusa and Agumon, Box Theory is still not broken.

....again, this is ASSUMING Verg's characters also exist alongside any other character. The box theory only works if 2 more characters are in the game. That's it. Yes, you can hand pick any echo between Palutena and Ryu, but if another echo happens outside of them, the box theory DOESNT WORK. It means the box has to be edited or doesn't represent what is in the game lmao. The same concept applies to Incineroar. If it's another character that's not Incineroar and Incineroar is also in the game, the box's current design needs to be disregarded, as it is not representative of the final roster.

 

[KingBroly]

Was it the updated Dante rumor that predicted Isabelle a day before her official trailer?

No, it was a few months back I think.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Well people have done dumber things for E-fame. Look at all those dumb injury challenges kids do by setting themselves of fire or eating tide pods.

Ah the tidepod eating days...even dumber than licking a Switch game cartridge

 

[Over9000BPM]

Yes to all the words you just said

They had time to make BOTW Link and content from Odyssey and Splatoon 2 (Cappy, NDC, Lil Judd, Jump Up Superstar), so adding the Varia Suit couldn’t be hard to do

also having this as a ZSS alt would be great

Spoiler: I want this

View attachment 164720

I’ve not seen that before, but I’m guessing it’s from Fusion based on the art style?

 

[Nethermoosen]

Again, if Vergeben characters exist ALONGSIDE a character outside his picks, it breaks the box theory, as there is only space for 2 more characters (allegedly). Hell, even if the Square character exists in the base game, it breaks the box theory.

The box theory is ONLY true if there are 2 more characters. That's it.

Box Theory is ONLY true if we can confirm 1 echo and 1 new fighter in base roster.

The echo must be an echo of any character ranging in order from Palutena to Cloud(by official roster number). This is key.

The other character can be Genie from Aladdin and it won’t make a difference.

Any characters beyond this, echo or not, will break the theory if(and only IF) it is confirmed to be in base game and not DLC.


Options:
We wait for Vergeben to confirm whether the SE rep is base roster or DLC
Or
We wait til an official confirmation
Or
Random proven leak of the future saves the day with incontrovertible evidence against it

 

[max_0888]

Depending on what the boss mode is, I can see Sakurai wanting to add Kefka as a DLC boss with Terra/Celes as playable/echo and Chocobo as Assist Trophy. Some kind of DLC pack. This is wishful thinking

 

[Nap_]

At this point the DLC is in development for sure, at least the first wave, the first stuff probably won't be too late. If Vergeven got good sources it's possible know something of it.
Mewtwo was revealed even before Duck Hunt, the last character. First DLC fighters for the final direct? Probably. With them you can get more characters, as in the August direct, while you keep feeding the hype.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

You know what I think the reason Verg doesn't want to reveal who he's heard as the SE rep (other than the lead being shaky) is that it isn't Geno. He just doesn't want to deal with the bull****.

 

[lordvaati]

I don't want to sound spoiled or anything, but if the "box theory" is true, the number of unique newcomers (even w/ all the circumstances) seems kinda... small.

Unique Newcomers
Inkling
Ridley
Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle (who is mostly unique)
A 6th newcomer

NEW Echoes (movesets are heavily based on other characters)
Daisy
Richter
Chrom
Dark Samus
A 5th echo (probably Ken)

Returning Veterans (movesets are mostly kept intact from previous installments)
Ice Climbers
Pichu
Young Link
Snake
Squritle
Ivysaur
Wolf

That's a total of 18 characters up from Smash 4 (I'm counting Squirtle and Ivysaur separately) w/ 12 being based on past movesets. No characters cut. 67% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before or they're literally characters we've seen before (just not for a long time).

In comparison the base roster of Smash 4, compared to Brawl, was up 17 characters (counting Miss separately) w/ only 2 being based on past movesets. 5 characters were cut from Brawl (Lucas did come back later). Only 12% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before.

It's also good to note that Smash 4 (which was 2 separate games) and Ultimate had a similar amount of development time.

I get that Ultimate's main draw is to honor the series as a whole. But in terms of unique newcomers, 6 seems extremely low; Melee had more unique newcomers and was developed in a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller period of time. Heck, Melee would still have added more clone characters than Ultimate, and their clones we're more unique than the echo fighters we've got now.

Stages are a MUCH bigger offender of this, but I'll save that for a later post.

Now if you told me 6 newcomers post-E3, pre-Smash Direct, I wouldn't be too surprised. But after revealing 2 uniques and 3 echoes in a single direct, many people, including myself, were conditioned to believe that they'll be many more characters (or at the very least more echoes) to be revealed.

If the box theory is true, I honestly don't understand why they decided to reveal all of these characters sooner than later, or spacing them out more evenly. They allowed us to speculate about all of these characters that we expect to make in it, but the remaining roster may be much more limited in reality.

Even Vergeben would be proven wrong, since he still has 3 newcomers he leaked: Ken, a Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square rep. None of the Smash info he leaked has been debunked and the majority of his Smash leaks have been true.

Again this could all be proven false. It just seems weird to me to go this route if this is true. Unless there's a MAJOR variety of enjoyable modes (not like Smash Tour), including some sort of story. I honestly can't see them going this route. And I hope they don't.

When Sakurai said not to expect many newcomers due to prioritizing bringing back the whole cast, he wasn't joking.
Being honest I was actually expecting LESS newcomers, thinking we may get 8-10 total.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Box Theory is ONLY true if we can confirm 1 echo and 1 new fighter in base roster.

The echo must be an echo of any character ranging in order from Palutena to Cloud(by official roster number). This is key.

The other character can be Genie from Aladdin and it won’t make a difference.

Any characters beyond this, echo or not, will break the theory if(and only IF) it is confirmed to be in base game and not DLC.


Options:
We wait for Vergeben to confirm whether the SE rep is base roster or DLC
Or
We wait til an official confirmation
Or
Random proven leak of the future saves the day with incontrovertible evidence against it

Did you read my other response to you, cause this is exactly what I said lol. I think we are saying the same thing differently lol

 

[Nethermoosen]

....again, this is ASSUMING Verg's characters also exist alongside any other character. The box theory only works if 2 more characters are in the game. That's it. Yes, you can hand pick any echo between Palutena and Ryu, but if another echo happens outside of them, the box theory DOESNT WORK. It means the box has to be edited or doesn't represent what is in the game lmao. The same concept applies to Incineroar. If it's another character that's not Incineroar and Incineroar is also in the game, the box's current design needs to be disregarded, as it is not representative of the final roster.

I mean I see we agree for the most part, but Verg could wrong and it wouldn’t matter as long as the echo fits and there’s only one more character in base game after that.

Very didn’t say whether Incineroar is base game(which we need to find out and he doesn’t know if the SE rep is in base game, but is looking into it.

We could end up with Ken, SE rep for base and Incineroar for DLC. We have to know if both unique characters are in base game or not.

Edit: P Paperchampion23 Just read your other things. It took a bit to write these so i missed them earlier. Sorry about that. Lol

 

[Paperchampion23]

At this point the DLC is in development for sure, at least the first wave, the first stuff probably won't be too late. If Vergeven got good sources it's possible know something of it.
Mewtwo was revealed even before Duck Hunt, the last character. First DLC fighters for the final direct? Probably. With them you can get more characters, as in the August direct, while you keep feeding the hype.

Mewtwo was not revealed before duck hunt. The 3ds version came out in september/october. Mewtwo was not revealed until November

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I mean I see we agree for the most part, but Verg could wrong and it wouldn’t matter as long as the echo fits and there’s only one more character in base game after that.

Very didn’t say whether Incineroar is base game(which we need to find out and he doesn’t know if the SE rep is in base game, but is looking into it.

We could end up with Ken, SE rep for base and Incineroar for DLC. We have to know if both unique characters are in base game or not.

To be perfectly frank, I really doubt Sakurai is saving echos for DLC.

 

[Knight Dude]

Honest question for everybody.

Do you think the guy who drew the mural knows the full roster?

He would probably have to.

Or at the latest, know when characters were going to be revealed ahead of time to update the roster art.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I mean I see we agree for the most part, but Verg could wrong and it wouldn’t matter as long as the echo fits and there’s only one more character in base game after that.

Very didn’t say whether Incineroar is base game(which we need to find out and he doesn’t know if the SE rep is in base game, but is looking into it.

We could end up with Ken, SE rep for base and Incineroar for DLC. We have to know if both unique characters are in base game or not.

Yes, now I see what you mean lol. I agree

 

[Luigi The President]

You know what I think the reason Verg doesn't want to reveal who he's heard as the SE rep (other than the lead being shaky) is that it isn't Geno. He just doesn't want to deal with the bull****.

Here's the thing. "the lead being shaky" That's that.
Verge just won't reveal stuff, in the past months at least, if the lead isn't absolutely solid. He didn't plan to reveal Incineroar at all until it was rock solid.
It doesn't need to be more than that. I hope it isn't, anyway.

 

[SlickWylde]

Paperchamp, thanks for the catch up!
Well, if Smash speculation has taught me anything, it's that if there are 2 possible truths, the less fun truth is usually the one that comes true :/

 

[Over9000BPM]

Paperchamp, thanks for the catch up!
Well, if Smash speculation has taught me anything, it's that if there are 2 possible truths, the less fun truth is usually the one that comes true :/

That’s the spirit

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Here's the thing. "the lead being shaky" That's that.
Verge just won't reveal stuff, in the past months at least, if the lead isn't absolutely solid. He didn't plan to reveal Incineroar at all until it was rock solid.
It doesn't need to be more than that. I hope it isn't, anyway.

Take note that Verg isn't sure about the Pokemon either, but he still put out what he's heard and what he believes is most likely, AE: Incin.

For the SE, he won't comment on who he's heard. And he's already said that the reason he hasn't said anything is that he wants to avoid online abuse (if it ends up being bs). He's told us about shaky leads before, but in this specific scenario with the SE rep, he doesn't want to comment.

That tells me that what he has heard, he knows won't make people happy.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Paperchamp, thanks for the catch up!
Well, if Smash speculation has taught me anything, it's that if there are 2 possible truths, the less fun truth is usually the one that comes true :/

We will see. The difference is this isn't come solid leak like ESRB or anything so I'd just wait it out until something changes

 

[Deleted member]

That tells me that what he has heard, he knows won't make people happy.

Or it's a character people want and they'll throw a fit if it's fake.

 

[Luigi The President]

Take note that Verg isn't sure about the Pokemon either, but he still put out what he's heard and what he believes is most likely, AE: Incin.

For the SE, he won't comment on who he's heard. And he's already said that the reason he hasn't said anything is that he wants to avoid online abuse (if it ends up being bs). He's told us about shaky leads before, but in this specific scenario with the SE rep, he doesn't want to comment.

That tells me that what he has heard, he knows won't make people happy.

Except, he's positive it's Incineroar. He noted all his sources have confirmed it is Incineroar.
Please show me where he says it's to avoid online abuse as all I've seen is that it's simply a potentially false lead.

 

[Potato_]

At this point the DLC is in development for sure, at least the first wave, the first stuff probably won't be too late. If Vergeven got good sources it's possible know something of it.
Mewtwo was revealed even before Duck Hunt, the last character. First DLC fighters for the final direct? Probably. With them you can get more characters, as in the August direct, while you keep feeding the hype.

Oh 100%. The first few characters are probably already decided and being worked on. Them being revealed in the last direct before release? I dunno. If it's anything like last time Nintendo won't want to reveal them until a month or so before their release. I can see one or two being revealed but probably not the whole pack, unless they're WAY more ahead than I give them credit for.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Take note that Verg isn't sure about the Pokemon either, but he still put out what he's heard and what he believes is most likely, AE: Incin.

For the SE, he won't comment on who he's heard. And he's already said that the reason he hasn't said anything is that he wants to avoid online abuse (if it ends up being bs). He's told us about shaky leads before, but in this specific scenario with the SE rep, he doesn't want to comment.

That tells me that what he has heard, he knows won't make people happy.

Now he is 100% sure it's Incineroar. He confirmed it today in a thread he made on gamefaqs. All of his sources vetted that info

 

[Union of Darkness]

I have a topic. Tokyo Game Show is this week and Nintendo is supposed to be attending, which is unusual for them. Wonder if they'll have some surprises.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Mewtwo was not revealed before duck hunt. The 3ds version came out in september/october. Mewtwo was not revealed until November

Mewtwo was revealed before Duck Hunt's trailer was shown.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

I am the BOX GHOST!! Here to haunt your Smash speculation season........BEWARE!!!!

 

[Potato_]

I have a topic. Tokyo Game Show is this week and Nintendo is supposed to be attending, which is unusual for them. Wonder if they'll have some surprises.

The announcement of the next direct/smash info is the absolute most I'd expect from them at this point. They could reveal something but I honestly don't see it happening.

 

[Shroob]

Take note that Verg isn't sure about the Pokemon either, but he still put out what he's heard and what he believes is most likely, AE: Incin.

For the SE, he won't comment on who he's heard. And he's already said that the reason he hasn't said anything is that he wants to avoid online abuse (if it ends up being bs). He's told us about shaky leads before, but in this specific scenario with the SE rep, he doesn't want to comment.

That tells me that what he has heard, he knows won't make people happy.

Verg is 100% it's Incineroar now. ALL of his sources agreed on it.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I have a topic. Tokyo Game Show is this week and Nintendo is supposed to be attending, which is unusual for them. Wonder if they'll have some surprises.

They may (used very strongly here). Like with EVO it could be a first for everything so who knows. Capcom is supposed to be unveiling info there about other games, so I could totally see Ken being unvield here to Capcoms benefit, so keep a lookout. Other than that, maybe Smash info does come directly from Nintendo

 

[Souless_shadow]

View attachment 164722

I am the BOX GHOST!! Here to haunt your Smash speculation season........BEWARE!!!!

Danny Phantom for Smash Ultimate

 

[TheCJBrine]

Take note that Verg isn't sure about the Pokemon either, but he still put out what he's heard and what he believes is most likely, AE: Incin.

For the SE, he won't comment on who he's heard. And he's already said that the reason he hasn't said anything is that he wants to avoid online abuse (if it ends up being bs). He's told us about shaky leads before, but in this specific scenario with the SE rep, he doesn't want to comment.

That tells me that what he has heard, he knows won't make people happy.

It's also possible that if it is Geno, and he get's it wrong, he'll get abuse anyway. The lead he has about the name is from a "random" person, while the character being from SE is from a source he doubts would be wrong. He never said anything about Incineroar until loz18 leaked his PM. In fact, he wasn't sure about Incineroar until his recent info, as before now he has said that only one of his sources told him Incineroar.

 

[Nap_]

Mewtwo was not revealed before duck hunt. The 3ds version came out in september/october. Mewtwo was not revealed until November

Yes, it "was". The 3DS version was launched without showing Bowser Jr. or Duck Hunt by official Nintendo channels. In fact, Mewtwo reveal as DLC was right after Jr.'s trailer in the 50 facts direct. Duck Hunt, Jr. and Shulk were leaked alongside the secret characters in the ESRB leak and later confirmed when the 3DS version come out. But still they weren't presented properly, Mewtwo was first officially.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Mewtwo was revealed before Duck Hunt's trailer was shown.

It doesn't matter, Duck Hunt was already officially known to the public because Smash 3ds was already available before Mewtwo was known.

Yes, it "was". The 3DS version was launched without showing Bowser Jr. or Duck Hunt by official Nintendo channels. In fact, Mewtwo reveal as DLC was right after Jr.'s trailer in the 50 facts direct. Duck Hunt, Jr. and Shulk were leaked alongside the secret characters in the ESRB leak and later confirmed when the 3DS version come out. But still they weren't presented properly, Mewtwo was first officially.

Please see my above comment

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Man, since this box thing came out, we've just been going in circles. I kinda just want another character announcement just to end this roundabout discussion.

I'm not up on all of Vergeben's stuff, but didn't he say a while back that there were at least a half dozen other unique newcomers beyond Ridley/Simon/Incineroar/Isabelle? Or is that bunk?

I just can't see them driving the hype train into the station with only a character and a half before release, when they just nonchalantly dropped two uniques and three echoes on us in August - oh, and about 20 or so new stages. If the last direct is riding solely on Spirits mode, Incineroar, and Ken, it'll be really tough to live up to the August hype.

Ken is iconic af in his own series and in gaming history, he's literally Mr. Clone Character himself.
Street Fighter without Ken would be like Sonic the Hedgehog without Tails

...so, Smash as it is currently? Welp, I for one am ready for Miles to get in.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Yes, it "was". The 3DS version was launched without showing Bowser Jr. or Duck Hunt by official Nintendo channels. In fact, Mewtwo reveal as DLC was right after Jr.'s trailer in the 50 facts direct. Duck Hunt, Jr. and Shulk were leaked alongside the secret characters in the ESRB leak and later confirmed when the 3DS version come out. But still they weren't presented properly, Mewtwo was first officially.

Shulk's reveal was before the 3DS game came out.