Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Here are a couple of things I want to say about Vergeben. Which looks like is the "Gematsu" of Ultimate (meaning he is the leaker who got the right info):

-A bit sad that Sakurai's wishes of keeping the roster unleaked once again weren't possible. But I hope he can say "At least the hype was still high with each reveal".
-I'm glad that of all the characters he leaked. King K. Rool was the one he didn't knew about/he didn't wanted to leak. That made his trailer a lot more surprising for us because when we saw Simon's reveal first, we immediately thought "So Verg's leak was right, and K. Rool wasn't in it".
-I don't feel right expecting that much DLC already, like it was mandatory. But I understand people who haven't received their wanted newcomer are looking forward to it.
-Incineroar would not be my first choice for a Pokemon from 7th gen based on that I picked Primarina (sniff) or that at least I also wish we had a final evolution grass starter. But I do love wrestlers in fighting games. If he gets some grappling moves, I'm sold.
-Ken shmen, not interested as much. But if he is an echo, its hard to complain. Im sure some Street Fighters players will like him (and I think Maximillian Dood is a big fan of Ken).

 

[osby]

Thanks. Should I keep it?

I don't see why not. It's pleasing to look at and distinct.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But Sheik would be the first character shown, so it's still possible.

Man je luistert niet. Hij zegt toch dat het een patroon heeft waardoor het niet bij Zelda is?*

*Translation: Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries

 

[drag0nscythe]

Here are a couple of things I want to say about Vergeben. Which looks like is the "Gematsu" of Ultimate (meaning he is the leaker who got the right info):

-A bit sad that Sakurai's wishes of keeping the roster unleaked once again weren't possible. But I hope he can say "At least the hype was still high with each reveal".
-I'm glad that of all the characters he leaked. King K. Rool was the one he didn't knew about/he didn't wanted to leak. That made his trailer a lot more surprising for us because when we saw Simon's reveal first, we immediately thought "So Verg's leak was right, and K. Rool wasn't in it".
-I don't feel right expecting that much DLC already, like it was mandatory. But I understand people who haven't received their wanted newcomer are looking forward to it.
-Incineroar would not be my first choice for a Pokemon from 7th gen based on that I picked Primarina (sniff) or that at least I also wish we had a final evolution grass starter. But I do love wrestlers in fighting games. If he gets some grappling moves, I'm sold.
-Ken shmen, not interested as much. But if he is an echo, its hard to complain. Im sure some Street Fighters players will like him (and I think Maximillian Dood is a big fan of Ken).

I would say Sakurai did get his wish though. Things have been so chaotic with all the nonsense that even though he did leak it, no one believed it all the way up to Isabelle.
Sakurai did get his wish to an extent. So many people could not believe anything this time around due to all the misinformation.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Thanks for this.

I think it's also important to add, that Sakurai didn't build the roster for the box. He built the roster he wanted. Marketing had to fit it to the box, and guess what they had multiple ways. They could have done miis seperately, not show echoes, seperate PT, or any combination. Instead they put it the best way that fit on the box.

Just wanted to add they didn't build the roster around the box. The other way around, and marketing had many options to make it work.

I'm sorry but both of your posts imply you don't understand how the box pattern works.

1. Zelda is not next to Shiek because it goes by every 9 characters. Roy is in the next set of 9. If you're saying it's weird they aren't next to each other, why? ZSS and Samus are the same character and aren't next to each other.
2. The echo has to be between Palutena and Cloud because that's the section that is only 8 characters instead of 9. Impa and Dixie, unfortunately, aren't possible.

Also for those pointing out why would they give marketing the roster details...they don't have to. They just needed to tell them where to keep blanks spots. Also, I don't think it's that crazy that Nintendo's own marketing team would know the whole roster. Third party companies are creating the cgi trailers which are made in advance, so they know the roster. Why wouldn't Nintendo's own marketing team not know but other companies would?

Because they did have many options for how to display the roster (which everyone agrees was not made for the box). This is the logical way to do it:

Instead of putting them in batches of six, to fit the box, they put them in batches of nine, which means there are jumps in characters going out of numbered order (on the box itself, not in the arbitrary pattern). Zelda comes after Sheik in numbered order, not Roy. Likewise, Palutena comes after Mii Fighters, not Corrin. It means, if I'm looking on the box, Roy is right after Sheik, which is out of order. I know the "pattern", but it doesn't make sense to put it that way on the box itself, this is. This tells me this is a placeholder image, not the final way the characters will be displayed. As such, it doesn't imply what characters are in, what characters aren't, the total number, etc. It's a placeholder. Subject to change.

I get that it's difficult to keep track of everything, as I'm having trouble myself. But I think my point is simple--if they're in ordered number on the box, it should be displayed as such, not inferred from some arbitrary "pattern" the designers of the box chose.

EDIT:

So you can see the subtle, but head-scratching, difference:

 

[Door Key Pig]

I posted a mock for a CSS. IT makes sense, it looks correct. IT matches all current information. Add a few to it. Make it make sense.
The ordering of the characters is what is used this time. As far as it matters, the number of characters is all it needs to make the CSS look pleasing. 72 does it. Which is nice.

Add another 1 or 2. Show us that it works well with them in place.

Each previous CSS had rhyme to it, even if we did not like it.

Melee had clones next to the originals.
Brawl had characters going down.
Smash 4 had the clone island and all characters in release order.
My CSS design has ll those little details and more. And fits with all current information outside of "I think there is more because I want more."

I want Goemon. and Bandana Dee. But I am being a realist here and assuming 72 is it before dlc.

I really don't see how say, another two to your second mockup (https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-4592#post-22439659) would affect anything, other than making the first one a tunnel shape, and going by each game, neither has any kind of perfect listing of "installment per line" to make that a definitive thing.

 

[Pakky]

And I mean it was no mystery that DLC would be a thing.

I mean I assume that they're going to support this game throughout the Switch's life cycle which is set to be kind lengthy as the 3DS is nearly a decade old.

If the DLC is good I don't mind paying 60, I just hope the online is decent.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Even if Sakurai is bummed about the leaks, he's at least not behind DMCV. "What do you MEAN someone leaked a ****ton of details about the game, our new character and put spoiler heavy cutscenes on the internet?"

 

[Nielicus]

The idea that there’s one more echo left, especially from a box that can easily be photoshopped/manipulated, just isn’t clicking with my mind lol

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

wait did vergeben say there were only ken and inceneroar OR did he say that he doesn't want to say the Square Enix character he got to avoid being mobbed by (probably geno) fans.

Both of these can't add up

 

[Rie Sonomura]

wait did vergeben say there were only ken and inceneroar OR did he say that he doesn't want to say the Square Enix character he got to avoid being mobbed by (probably geno) fans.

Both of these can't add up

As far as I know it’s the latter. It’s very possible the Square Rep isn’t Geno.

in which case PLEASE be Neku

 

[drag0nscythe]

I really don't see how say, another two to your second mockup (https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-4592#post-22439659) would affect anything, other than making the first one a tunnel shape, and going by each game, neither has any kind of perfect listing of "installment per line" to make that a definitive thing.

Actually, I believe the real css is collapsed. The expanded one will look like crap.
And collapsed has order. Lots of order.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Man je luistert niet. Hij zegt toch dat het een patroon heeft waardoor het niet bij Zelda is?*

*Translation: Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries

Een man moet zijn dromen behouden in een maatschappij als deze </3

Anyhow, to hell with the box theory. I still don't buy it.

 

[osby]

inb4 remaining echo and Square Enix character is the same fighter and you all sleeped on Zinith's foresights.

 

[Enchess]

I'm gonna say one thing then go back to lurking:
Marketing teams know confidential information about games all the time. Often before even game developers in the same company.

Seriously. I had a conversation a few weeks ago with a game programmer and we talked about who knows things and who doesn't. I was wanting to get a feel for what leaker backstories were believable. He told me marketing knows far more confidential material than most people who actually work on the game. Which makes a ton of sense if you think about it. Marketing material by nature has to be ready before any announcements. Even Sakurai's own team doesn't need everyone to know a character exists before they are announced.

"Marketing can't **** up and leak the roster cuz they wouldn't know what the roster is" is a really bad argument. Especially coming from anyone saying a typo in a magazine is impossible. Why does CoroCoro know confidential information about the game but there's no way marketing could? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[LetterO]

wait did vergeben say there were only ken and inceneroar OR did he say that he doesn't want to say the Square Enix character he got to avoid being mobbed by (probably geno) fans.

Both of these can't add up

He said we’d get Ken and Incineroar at the very least. This doesn’t confirm nor deny the Box Theory or 108 stages

 

[SquashiniKun]

I got a game for you all, think of a newcomer that can fit into both the hardcore and casual categories.

 

[Pyra]

inb4 remaining echo and Square Enix character is the same fighter and you all sleeped on Zinith's foresights.

I want Boshi more than Ken.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Een man moet zijn dromen behouden in een maatschappij als deze </3

Anyhow, to hell with the box theory. I still don't buy it.

Dromen is verboden, net zoals memes nu

inb4 remaining echo and Square Enix character is the same fighter and you all sleeped on Zinith's foresights.

If that happens then we need to crown Zinith as a god

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I got a game for you all, think of a newcomer that can fit into both the hardcore and casual categories.

Waluigi (R.I.P)...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I got a game for you all, think of a newcomer that can fit into both the hardcore and casual categories.

Define “hardcore” and “casual” in a Smash context

 

[IGuessItsOver]

I got a game for you all, think of a newcomer that can fit into both the hardcore and casual categories.

Shantae or Geno.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Define “hardcore” and “casual” in a Smash context

A character that appeals to both causal and hardcore audiences.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

lmao someone just suggested that the training stage could be part of the 5 extras. Sakurai WOULD stroke his **** at us like that, so minus 1 for Minecraft means 3 stages left

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

As far as I know it’s the latter. It’s very possible the Square Rep isn’t Geno.

in which case PLEASE be Neku

I'm a geno fan but otherwise DQ Protag/Slime or bust

Dragon Quest defined a genre and it's impact on gaming still reigns heavily today, it inspired other series already in smash like Final Fantasy and Mother.

God i'm hoping for slime however, he's definitely the international face of the series (along with arguably 8's protag) and i want some wacky cute character to end the roster once again, considering DQ fanbase is like 90% in japan however, I imagine they'd just pick erdrick.

I'm really sad we aren't getting a character I actually care about finally get one last grand finale in the valhalla of video game (not a ridley or krool fan personally Porky is and forever will be the GOAT nintendo villan) but dragon quest is a good consolation prize.

I'm more sad that it's unlikely geno will ever get his other chance, like krool, his fanbase is a loud minority without the dlc sales to back it up, and as such i can't see him being dlc like i could see a dragon quest character being dlc if geno was in baseline.

 

[Cosmic77]

The idea that there’s one more echo left, especially from a box that can easily be photoshopped/manipulated, just isn’t clicking with my mind lol

The box wouldn't even need to be rearranged if Nintendo just stopped after the next two characters. If they have plans to reveal newcomers up until early to mid-November, then I don't know why they would think it would be a good idea to print unrevealed characters on the side of a box and ship them out to retailers. That's basically handing someone a leak on a silver platter.

Instead of interpreting this as, "We're only getting two more characters," I think we should look at this as, "We're getting at least two more characters".

 

[LetterO]

Shantae or Geno.

>Geno
>Casual

Pfft.

 

[ErenJager]

Is it true the Smash Switch bundle is $999.99?

 

[Dee Dude]

I got a game for you all, think of a newcomer that can fit into both the hardcore and casual categories.

Hmmm....

-Waluigi (Yes, I’m counting deconfirmed characters)
-Rayman
-Shantae
-Toad
-Dixie
-Elma
-Bandana Dee

Those are all I got for now.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is it true the Smash Switch bundle is $999.99?

Wait, WHAT?!

Where on EARTH did you hear that from??

 

[MSmariosonic]

Is it true the Smash Switch bundle is $999.99?

Realistically,

looking at the amount of content Ultimate has, it should be

 

[SonicMario]

We should be looking at Verge's characters, the Box theory, and CoroCoro in conjunction. While not all of the 3 may be true at least try to maybe fit it in like a puzzle. Box theory says two more characters with one an echo and one an actual unique/semi-clone newcomer. Verge says it's Ken and Incineroar, with the 2nd square enix rep potentially being the first DLC character ala Smash 4 mewtwo. If the CoroCoro 108 stages isn't a mistake, the stages don't necessarily automatically destroy the entire box theory. As it could be just a Sun and Moon stage tied to Incineroar while the other 4 are more old stages and/or new stages for already represented franchises.

Maybe they're finally giving ROB a home

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

https://topics.nintendo.co.jp/c/article/2200766f-96b6-11e8-b123-063b7ac45a6d.html



I think this is done so that the echo fighters can be more easily balanced against their originals.



(These echo fighters are confirmed to have some differences)



(This echo fighter only varies in appearance, voice and some gestures)



These fighters have more drastic variations in speed, weight and attack power etc. So they aren't echo fighters.

I'm still trying to pinpoint exactly how the echo fighters will differ from the original but this explains it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So what's the new game now? Throwing out ideas for the 5 stages?

1. Minecraft (Would be cool if it worked like SMM and randomized each time)
2. Rhythm Heaven (Works like Wario Ware and goes into minigames)
3. Gangplank Galleon (or something else DK)
4. Monster Hunter (shown as a boss stage in the Direct)
5. Skyrim (With playable Dovahkiin. Shut up, I can put one dream on)

 

[dezeray112]

As far as I know it’s the latter. It’s very possible the Square Rep isn’t Geno.

in which case PLEASE be Neku

If it is not Geno, then the next candidate for the second Square Enix rep could be either someone from Dragon Quest, The World Ends With You or another Final Fantasy series.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

My guess if 108 stages and box theory both go hand in hand:

Characters: Incineroar, Ken (Echo)

Stages:
104: Mute City (F-ZERO/MK8) *Mute City SNES is a thing*
105: Crafted World (Yoshis Crafted World)
106: Mangrove Cove (DK Tropical Freeze)
107: Melemele Island (Pokemon Sun & Moon)
108: City Trial (Kirby Air Ride)

 

[PK_Wonder]

I got a game for you all, think of a newcomer that can fit into both the hardcore and casual categories.

I can't think of anyone who fits that crossover appeal as well as Isabelle.

Going forward, Dixie Kong or Paper Mario.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I don't see why not. It's pleasing to look at and distinct.

Thanks. I’ll try to keep it up

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Rainbow Road must return

It’s cute!

That’s not how you spell “murdericious”

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If it is not Geno, then the next candidate for the second Square Enix rep could be either someone from Dragon Quest, The World Ends With You or from another Final Fantasy series.

Then it's Cait Sith from 7 and his gimmick is that all of his moves have randomized damage output, knockback and frame data