Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[AzureFlame4]

There is no evidence that more guest characters increase sales. Smash 4 sold worse than Brawl once you adjust for double purchases.

My problem is moreso that Sakurai doesn't respect the fact that this is a Nintendo All-Star game. Look at Brawl. Sakurai limited it to only a few (no more than 2 or 3). They were hidden characters. All of the items were from Nintendo games. Same for the assist trophies. Really with the DLC, he went overboard and started adding tons of non-Nintendo characters. To put into perspective, Characters 1-59 have 4 guest characters. Characters 60-68 have 4 guest characters. To say it's gone off the deep end is an understatement. I think if Sakurai took better care of this being a Nintendo game then there would be less to complain about but that is clearly not the case. There are still tons of Nintendo characters people want but its hard to get them in when Sakurai is using the game as his own personal fangame.

You say Cloud saved Smash 4 for you. Well, Cloud, Bayonetta and Ryu killed the series for me. It's why I've been far less active here then I ever was during the Brawl and Smash 4 days. If anything, Isabelle is what got me interested in this game.

A lot fewer people owned a Wii U than a Wii so of course Brawl sold better.

 

[P.Kat]

5 new stages without any of those being from new series? Or just the stages? I dunno. That seems pretty unlikely.

I think it's more likely that we get like 2-3 new characters WITH stages and then the rest be just the stages. I don't see it being 5 stages and no characters with them. Seems odd.

Well here's hoping it's an Okami, Shantae, Xenoblade Chronicles X stage with the characters to go with it (extra Joy if one is a Kingdom Hearts stage)

 

[papagenos]

108 stages.

if box theory/vergeben are right im guessing ken/incineroar + geno (final reveal, not on box)

in which case the final 5 stages are probably:
1.monster hunter stage
2.sun and moon stage
3.minecraft stage
4.rhythm heaven stage
5.mario rpg stage

 

[SmashChu]

Problem with your arguement is what a nintendo character is. Talk toany old school gamer what a nintendo character is and i guarantee megaman and simon willbe on that list. More companies released games on the nes and snes outside of nintendo.

Characters can end up being associated with a console evenif they are not owned by nintendo.

Only bayo and cloud do not match this perception.

There is no question of what a Nintendo character is. Did Nintendo make it? Did they have a hand in it? Then its a Nintendo character. It's the style and design that help set them apart from other characters.

 

[Rockaphin]

Ken's Street Fighter II stage would be great. I know echoes haven't really gotten there on stage but...

Who doesn't want this recreated in Smash Brothers?

If Ken were to get a stage, I agree, I think it should be this stage.

But man, I'd love to see his stage from Street Fighter Alpha 2:

With this stage, we could see a lot of Capcom's other characters make an appearance in Smash.

 

[Cosmic77]

There is no evidence that more guest characters increase sales. Smash 4 sold worse than Brawl once you adjust for double purchases.

My problem is moreso that Sakurai doesn't respect the fact that this is a Nintendo All-Star game. Look at Brawl. Sakurai limited it to only a few (no more than 2 or 3). They were hidden characters. All of the items were from Nintendo games. Same for the assist trophies. Really with the DLC, he went overboard and started adding tons of non-Nintendo characters. To put into perspective, Characters 1-59 have 4 guest characters. Characters 60-68 have 4 guest characters. To say it's gone off the deep end is an understatement. I think if Sakurai took better care of this being a Nintendo game then there would be less to complain about but that is clearly not the case. There are still tons of Nintendo characters people want but its hard to get them in when Sakurai is using the game as his own personal fangame.

You say Cloud saved Smash 4 for you. Well, Cloud, Bayonetta and Ryu killed the series for me. It's why I've been far less active here then I ever was during the Brawl and Smash 4 days. If anything, Isabelle is what got me interested in this game.

I don't think third-parties killed Smash, but I also think people are over exaggerating how impactful third-parties are. Just like Nintendo's first-party characters, it all depends on which third-party character you add. Even choosing super iconic characters doesn't necessarily mean you'll automatically attract consumers.

Seriously, I never saw anyone say, "OMG!! Pac-Man just saved Smash!!"

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I just want to toss in, because I saw other people bring up Vergeben's at least half a dozen more claim the other day, that it fits with where we are at.

So he said the half a dozen included Simon, then there's King K. Rool, Isabelle, Ken, Incineroar and the SE rep. He didn't know about the echoes so I'm excluding them (although I still think it's weird he knows about Ken).

At the moment I think Vergeben fits with the box theory, if the SE rep is our first dlc character (along the lines of releases early if you have nintendo online, etc).

 

[Ryuuma]

About the Box Theory...
I dont know... we are still 2~3 months apart the game, and if vergeben is right, we got just one more newcomer and an echo.
If we got just that for 3 months, why they presented Simon AND K.Rool at the same time? Why not distribute it better in this time?

I believe we are still going to see at least two more newcomers, one in october and onother one in november.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

If CoroCoro got it right with 108 stages.

I'm calling that another dent in box theory.

There's no reason to add more stage representation if there's only 2 fighters left.

I feel the 5 stages could backfire at us though, granted i'm someone that is in the camp that the boxart stuff is most likely legit, because of how dissapointing it is. I offcourse want it to be deconfirmed, but it rubs me the wrong way.

The final stages could easily be, Incineroars homestage, a stage that represents a franchise with no character(Rhythm Heaven for example), remaining returning stages, the Minecraft stage etc., so yeah I'm going to keep my overall expectations very low

 

[Diddy Kong]

Which Fire Emblem newcomer seems most likely to you guys at the moment? I know the prospect isn't very popular, but I still think a new Fire Emblem character would be real cool, and very likely regardless.

 

[Curious Villager]

Thing is, Its hard to destinguish for the average joe on what a Nintendo character is, especially if said third party has primarily made appearances on Nintendo consoles. Especially if Nintendo themselves market them like they where their own. Hence why many casuals have confused the likes of Mega Man, Simon Belmont, Shantae, Professor Layton and Phoenix Wright etc as Nintendo characters over the years.

 

[Radical Bones]

This is how Incineroar runs -

Absolute swagger.

So... Assuming the final characters are Incineroar and Ken... Who will be your Smash Ultimate main?
I'm going to main Isabelle and Incineroar all the way

Probably just the usuals.

Looking forward to trying out and Isabelle the most.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I just want to toss in, because I saw other people bring up Vergeben's at least half a dozen more claim the other day, that it fits with where we are at.

So he said the half a dozen included Simon, then there's King K. Rool, Isabelle, Ken, Incineroar and the SE rep. He didn't know about the echoes so I'm excluding them (although I still think it's weird he knows about Ken).

At the moment I think Vergeben fits with the box theory, if the SE rep is our first dlc character (along the lines of releases early if you have nintendo online, etc).

His 6 character claim doesn't. He specifically said Unique fighters then. Meaning Ken wouldn't count and a 6th, unknown character (after the square rep) has to be considered. And that's just "at least 6"

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Which Fire Emblem newcomer seems most likely to you guys at the moment? I know the prospect isn't very popular, but I still think a new Fire Emblem character would be real cool, and very likely regardless.

Edelgard as DLC, with her using an axe.

They like promotional Fire Emblem characters. They’re probably going to do some more recent characters that popped up since development started as DLC. FE fans have wanted an axe user in Smash.

I’d say it’s the least likely of what I’d call the “Switch Trio,” of Rex, Spring Man, and Edelgard, but I still think it’s relatively likely. But she’s still the only one out of the three I wouldnt be surprised to see not get in.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I consider Octoling the honorary echo of the Switch Trio. I guess it’s not a trio anymore then.

 

[osby]

Which Fire Emblem newcomer seems most likely to you guys at the moment? I know the prospect isn't very popular, but I still think a new Fire Emblem character would be real cool, and very likely regardless.

Celica seems most likely and I'd love to see her in Smash.

A character from Three Houses is possible. Everyone says Edelgard, but I think Byleth has more chance. Dunno, him or any of his three students would be cool.

 

[drag0nscythe]

There is no question of what a Nintendo character is. Did Nintendo make it? Did they have a hand in it? Then its a Nintendo character. It's the style and design that help set them apart from other characters.

Megaman is considered a Nintendo icon even though he is owned by capcom. No one looks at him in smash and goes. "He is not nintendo. He does not belong"

 

[Paperchampion23]

Which Fire Emblem newcomer seems most likely to you guys at the moment? I know the prospect isn't very popular, but I still think a new Fire Emblem character would be real cool, and very likely regardless.

Hector or Eraphim. Axe or Spear. FE 7 or FE 8, two extremely overlooked FE games.

 

[Cosmic77]

Which Fire Emblem newcomer seems most likely to you guys at the moment? I know the prospect isn't very popular, but I still think a new Fire Emblem character would be real cool, and very likely regardless.

Seeing how Fates is still the most recent non-remake FE game, I'd say a Three Houses character as DLC is most likely.

However, I really hope they don't go that route. Sakurai has already gone out of his way to promote an upcoming FE character twice. I'd rather see him focus on other games, like ARMS and Xenoblade.

 

[Radical Bones]

About the Box Theory...
I dont know... we are still 2~3 months apart the game, and if vergeben is right, we got just one more newcomer and an echo.
If we got just that for 3 months, why they presented Simon AND K.Rool at the same time? Why not distribute it better in this time?

I believe we are still going to see at least two more newcomers, one in october and onother one in november.

I'm with you here.

Simon, Richter, K.Rool, Chrom and Dark Samus in one go then 3 characters for the next 4 months.

It's just not good marketing.

 

[DJ3DS]

guys, boxes and magazines are boring.

Reddit has quite an interesting thing going on lately though. In the run up to Ultimate, lots of people are posting some of their favourite Smash 4 plays. Why don't we do that here?

So... Assuming the final characters are Incineroar and Ken... Who will be your Smash Ultimate main?
I'm going to main Isabelle and Incineroar all the way

ROB and King K Rool.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I actually don't think Edelgart will be a major character in Three Houses, most likely she's the Jagen archetype. I think that mage looking like dude, somewhat resembling Robin, is the main character. And possibly a Lord we haven't seen yet. I think we get the Awakening styled "dual protagonist" thing yet again with Three Houses. :ultrobin Which would make picking a newcomer rather hard.

I also think Celica is likely, but so would then Alm be likely. And I also still kind of hope for Black Knight Zelgius.

 

[Dandelionel]

Which Fire Emblem newcomer seems most likely to you guys at the moment? I know the prospect isn't very popular, but I still think a new Fire Emblem character would be real cool, and very likely regardless.

Edelgard for DLC. Really, really good design, uses axes and looks like she has a bearable personality unlike Corrin. She is literally everything that the Smash fanbase was complaining about the lack of.

 

[MSmariosonic]

So... Assuming the final characters are Incineroar and Ken... Who will be your Smash Ultimate main?
I'm going to main Isabelle and Incineroar all the way

If we only talk about the newcomers it's obviously the cunning god of death.

Been waitin' too long for that fella to show up in Smash.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I'm with you here.

Simon, Richter, K.Rool, Chrom and Dark Samus in one go then 3 characters for the next 4 months.

It's just not good marketing.

Which should tell people that 2 characters left is likely false. Smash always reveals more characters at the end, regardless of how hype they are, though many of them are secret. Both Brawl and 4 had 3-4 secret characters and revealed several right before release. This game doesn't have secret characters, meaning all of them need to be shown probably at once at a direct instead of in the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So... Assuming the final characters are Incineroar and Ken... Who will be your Smash Ultimate main?
I'm going to main Isabelle and Incineroar all the way

Diddy Kong

Always and forever. King K.Rool was my most wanted, and I got him. But he won't be my main. In fact I doubt I even will play him as much as my other secondaries, DK , Mewtwo and Ike - those where all amongst my most wanted as well, and DK has been a solid main or at least semi-main in each Smash game till now. Won't let that slip.

K.Rool will still easily be #5 however!

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

There is no evidence that more guest characters increase sales. Smash 4 sold worse than Brawl once you adjust for double purchases.

My problem is moreso that Sakurai doesn't respect the fact that this is a Nintendo All-Star game. Look at Brawl. Sakurai limited it to only a few (no more than 2 or 3). They were hidden characters. All of the items were from Nintendo games. Same for the assist trophies. Really with the DLC, he went overboard and started adding tons of non-Nintendo characters. To put into perspective, Characters 1-59 have 4 guest characters. Characters 60-68 have 4 guest characters. To say it's gone off the deep end is an understatement. I think if Sakurai took better care of this being a Nintendo game then there would be less to complain about but that is clearly not the case. There are still tons of Nintendo characters people want but its hard to get them in when Sakurai is using the game as his own personal fangame.

You say Cloud saved Smash 4 for you. Well, Cloud, Bayonetta and Ryu killed the series for me. It's why I've been far less active here then I ever was during the Brawl and Smash 4 days. If anything, Isabelle is what got me interested in this game.

Your talking about the base game in terms of Sales. I'm talking about left field third party as DLC hence why I mentioned Cloud, Ryu, Batonetta being added and not Mega Man/ Pac-Man. Smash 4 DLC did extremely well. Smash 4 did worse for the WII U (3DS profit did very well) anyway because the system was bad and was failing horribly. This just showed that Smash alone isn't going to save a system and that casuals aren't going to get a failing system for Smash. Its no surprise that they quickly started working on the new smash and stopped smash 4 support around 2016

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Glad to hear Vergeben again

(Spoiler just in case some fans here haven’t seen it yet and don’t want spoilers)

Spoiler: Reveal from him

He officially confirmed incineroar aka doubled down

And that he’s going to investigate the box theory

Also in a way checking if the Square Enix character he said earlier is DLC or Base

 

[papagenos]

I just want to toss in, because I saw other people bring up Vergeben's at least half a dozen more claim the other day, that it fits with where we are at.

So he said the half a dozen included Simon, then there's King K. Rool, Isabelle, Ken, Incineroar and the SE rep. He didn't know about the echoes so I'm excluding them (although I still think it's weird he knows about Ken).

At the moment I think Vergeben fits with the box theory, if the SE rep is our first dlc character (along the lines of releases early if you have nintendo online, etc).

the half dozen claim also fits what he probly knew at the time.
vergeben said "half a dozen more at least" when ridley was our newest character.

vergeben (or a source telling him at least half a dozen more) probly heard rumors of: simon/"more echos"/pokemon rep/isabelle/ken/square rep
vergeben held off revealing these until he got more info on each one individually but was told/knew about "half a dozen at least" as these are the ones he slowly revealed as he felt more confident in them.

then the ones he didnt know: richter/dark samus/chrom/k rool
fill out the "at least" part of "half a dozen more" as there was probably always rumors of there being more than the ones that were "known".

it IS interesting he never seemed to know echos (isabelles echo status or not was confusing to everyone, after i watched the trailer i wasnt sure until i checked the site)... so its very odd Ken as an echo is now one of his leaks (id be shocked 10x more if ken was unique, than i was about isabelle being unique, it literally fits him better to be an echo).

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

His 6 character claim doesn't. He specifically said Unique fighters then. Meaning Ken wouldn't count and a 6th, unknown character (after the square rep) has to be considered. And that's just "at least 6"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/8k0li1/comment/e0pemqo

This is the quote of him I have. It doesn't say unique and in fact he even states he's not sure if echoes were included. If we speculate that he had an early list and that Ken was included on the list as the first possible echo, and that also makes sense for the vauge Pokemon rep just like Greninja, then it all adds up.

Admittedly it is just exactly six, but it means he was right, and I'm just trying to connect what Vergeben has been saying to the box.

the half dozen claim also fits what he probly knew at the time.
vergeben said "half a dozen more at least" when ridley was our newest character.

vergeben (or a source telling him at least half a dozen more) probly heard rumors of: simon/"more echos"/pokemon rep/isabelle/ken/square rep
vergeben held off revealing these until he got more info on each one individually but was told/knew about "half a dozen at least" as these are the ones he slowly revealed as he felt more confident in them.

then the ones he didnt know: richter/dark samus/chrom/k rool
fill out the "at least" part of "half a dozen more" as there was probably always rumors of there being more than the ones that were "known".

it IS interesting he never seemed to know echos (isabelles echo status or not was confusing to everyone, after i watched the trailer i wasnt sure until i checked the site)... so its very odd Ken as an echo is now one of his leaks (id be shocked 10x more if ken was unique, than i was about isabelle being unique, it literally fits him better to be an echo).

That logic works too actually. That might imply King K. Rool was a later addition on the project plan, which honestly I could see.

 

[praline]

On one hand, I do kinda want to unlock characters by the normal methods.

But on the other hand, if I really can just use amiibo, then I can unlock 22 characters right off the bat.

Tough choices.

Yeah that’s basically my thoughts too.

 

[osby]

I actually don't think Edelgart will be a major character in Three Houses, most likely she's the Jagen archetype. I think that mage looking like dude, somewhat resembling Robin, is the main character. And possibly a Lord we haven't seen yet. I think we get the Awakening styled "dual protagonist" thing yet again with Three Houses. :ultrobin Which would make picking a newcomer rather hard.

I also think Celica is likely, but so would then Alm be likely. And I also still kind of hope for Black Knight Zelgius.

I thought the main characters were green haired man and his three students: Dimitri, Claude and Edelgard.

Teacher is probably an avatar and Edelgard seems more important than the other two, but it's hard to say.

 

[SmashChu]

The thing about Incinaroar is that I feel its something people think will happen but wont actually happen. Pokemon in general is hard to pin down. No one though Greninja would be in at all. But what is weird is everyone is so sure on Incinaroar. I hear the anime cited a lot as a reason he will happen, but Incinaroar hasn't been in it outside of an episode or two. Meanwhile. Rowlet has been a major Pokemon for Ash (and even has its own article on Bulbapedia). Rowlet is also one of the more popular Pokemon from Sun and Moon if not the most popular. Let's be honest, if the Pokemon Company was going to push a Pokemon, it would be from that line. Decidueye already got into Pokken and that game and Smash are developed by the same company. "But maybe he picked it based on design." OK, You have a Wrestler verses an Owl who shoots arrows. I feel like the latter one will be more unique and have more potential for attacks. Also, notice how people aren't excited over Incinaroar except for a few people. I feel like it was a few people who pushed the idea of Incinaroar and then everyone bought on. Its kind of like Skull Kid actually.

 

[MSmariosonic]

The thing about Incinaroar is that I feel its something people think will happen but wont actually happen. Pokemon in general is hard to pin down. No one though Greninja would be in at all. But what is weird is everyone is so sure on Incinaroar. I hear the anime cited a lot as a reason he will happen, but Incinaroar hasn't been in it outside of an episode or two. Meanwhile. Rowlet has been a major Pokemon for Ash (and even has its own article on Bulbapedia). Rowlet is also one of the more popular Pokemon from Sun and Moon if not the most popular. Let's be honest, if the Pokemon Company was going to push a Pokemon, it would be from that line. Decidueye already got into Pokken and that game and Smash are developed by the same company. "But maybe he picked it based on design." OK, You have a Wrestler verses an Owl who shoots arrows. I feel like the latter one will be more unique and have more potential for attacks. Also, notice how people aren't excited over Incinaroar except for a few people. I feel like it was a few people who pushed the idea of Incinaroar and then everyone bought on. Its kind of like Skull Kid actually.

But but...

Vergeben

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

The thing about Incinaroar is that I feel its something people think will happen but wont actually happen. Pokemon in general is hard to pin down. No one though Greninja would be in at all. But what is weird is everyone is so sure on Incinaroar. I hear the anime cited a lot as a reason he will happen, but Incinaroar hasn't been in it outside of an episode or two. Meanwhile. Rowlet has been a major Pokemon for Ash (and even has its own article on Bulbapedia). Rowlet is also one of the more popular Pokemon from Sun and Moon if not the most popular. Let's be honest, if the Pokemon Company was going to push a Pokemon, it would be from that line. Decidueye already got into Pokken and that game and Smash are developed by the same company. "But maybe he picked it based on design." OK, You have a Wrestler verses an Owl who shoots arrows. I feel like the latter one will be more unique and have more potential for attacks. Also, notice how people aren't excited over Incinaroar except for a few people. I feel like it was a few people who pushed the idea of Incinaroar and then everyone bought on. Its kind of like Skull Kid actually.

Most people think he's in because of Vergeben who hasn't got anything wrong yet.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I mean even the creator of King. K. Rool didn't even know his character was in Smash lol. I low-key would be tight if Sakurai added a character I created and didn't let me know. Sakurai making sure no is leaking.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Getting myself caught up with everything in the last few hours/overnight. Really interesting stuff!

As Coro Coro is the only source to report 108 stages, i’m not entirely sure what to think. While i’d really like to see 5 more stages, I personally don’t think that confirms additional characters as they could be stages for series already in Smash, series without a playable character in Smash, or Smash original stage.

Vergeben has doubled (maybe tripled) down on Incineroar and Ken, but not a Square Enix character. While this itself doesn’t mean we aren’t getting any other characters, Verg appears to be unable to shoot down the “box theory” on his own.

As the dude who went hard on the box theory the other night, I will say that I would gladly be wrong about it and would love more characters and more stages to go with them. I do find it odd that the stage select screen would have 5 random empty slots and not fill them in later on.

Moral of the story: continue to temper expectations. At this point, nothing will confirm additional characters than LEGITIMATE leaking or confirmation of more characters. Taking anything else as a confirmation of characters past Incineroar and Ken puts us in territory where there truly may be nothing left, and that’s something to prepare for.

You should/can hope for more, but keep your expectations in check.

 

[SmashChu]

Your talking about the base game in terms of Sales. I'm talking about left field third party as DLC hence why I mentioned Cloud, Ryu, Batonetta being added and not Mega Man/ Pac-Man. Smash 4 DLC did extremely well. Smash 4 did worse for the WII U (3DS profit did very well) anyway because the system was bad and was failing horribly. This just showed that Smash alone isn't going to save a system and that casuals aren't going to get a failing system for Smash. Its no surprise that they quickly started working on the new smash and stopped smash 4 support around 2016

Bold proves my point. Either way, its not the characters driving sales is it (remember that software pushes hardware). Also, Smash Wii U sold less than NSMBU, Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 8. Animal Crossing and Pokemon outsold Smash on the 3DS by a lot.

The DLC did better than Nintendo had done in the past but it was overshowed in 2017. Compare download revenue in 2015 and 2017. Nintendo made more money off the Breath of the Wild and Xenoblade 2 Passes than they did with Smash and Mario Kart 8.

There is no good business reason for guest characters in Smash.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think if Smash is going to continue to expand, it makes sense to rely on third parties. Smash already has so many major, well-known Nintendo first party characters, it's becoming very difficult to find realizable first party characters that reach the levels of popularity/hype as the previous games. From my perspective, it feels like first party suggestions are already scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Ridley and K Rool were big ones--but there's very few left. And personally, I find it very difficult to find any more Nintendo characters I'd like in Smash, that I've played and know well, the only one I can kind of think of is Dixie Kong (and I hadn't played her until Tropical Freeze). All the other hype characters are third party (and some in nebulous areas when it comes to being Nintendo characters ). And I welcome them to the Nintendo family with open arms.

I just want to toss in, because I saw other people bring up Vergeben's at least half a dozen more claim the other day, that it fits with where we are at.

So he said the half a dozen included Simon, then there's King K. Rool, Isabelle, Ken, Incineroar and the SE rep. He didn't know about the echoes so I'm excluding them (although I still think it's weird he knows about Ken).

At the moment I think Vergeben fits with the box theory, if the SE rep is our first dlc character (along the lines of releases early if you have nintendo online, etc).

All this means is that Ken is a unique character. After Isabelle, I don't know what to ****ing believe.

 

[Untouch]

The thing about Incinaroar is that I feel its something people think will happen but wont actually happen. Pokemon in general is hard to pin down. No one though Greninja would be in at all. But what is weird is everyone is so sure on Incinaroar. I hear the anime cited a lot as a reason he will happen, but Incinaroar hasn't been in it outside of an episode or two. Meanwhile. Rowlet has been a major Pokemon for Ash (and even has its own article on Bulbapedia). Rowlet is also one of the more popular Pokemon from Sun and Moon if not the most popular. Let's be honest, if the Pokemon Company was going to push a Pokemon, it would be from that line. Decidueye already got into Pokken and that game and Smash are developed by the same company. "But maybe he picked it based on design." OK, You have a Wrestler verses an Owl who shoots arrows. I feel like the latter one will be more unique and have more potential for attacks. Also, notice how people aren't excited over Incinaroar except for a few people. I feel like it was a few people who pushed the idea of Incinaroar and then everyone bought on. Its kind of like Skull Kid actually.

Vergeben has gotten too many things correct so far for me to deny it, I don't want Incineroar either but I'm afraid it's almost guaranteed.

 

[SmashChu]

Most people think he's in because of Vergeben who hasn't got anything wrong yet.

Vergeben has gotten too many things correct so far for me to deny it, I don't want Incineroar either but I'm afraid it's almost guaranteed.

It wouldn't be the first time Verge is wrong about something.