Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Rocket Raccoon]

Yes, specially for Mayo.
Cloud not having one kinda sucked tbh


Now I think the upcoming trailers will be pure CGI without gameplay as they might be saving the in-game footage for E3

Only Corrin had CGI (Ryu might have had CGI, I don't know. It doesn't look like it. It looks like his normal Smash model with lighting effects.)

Now this makes me wonder how easy it would be to change Inkling's trailer to a Smash 4 trailer.

 

[pupNapoleon]

What even makes a game a port vs a sequel? Surely not just having the same engine or skeleton, especially for a fighting game, a genre (in)famous for subtle mechanic and content evolutions from one entry to the next? People love throwing around the word 'port' without proper definitions.

Ya know, I started a thread with this topic today, and not one person has had the courtesy to respond.
And they say the internet is a kind hearted place.

 

[N3ON]

Do you guys also think the reason why we got less CGI trailers near the end of DLC was because of Sma5h?

Nah, it was because DLC had a significantly reduced budget and those CG trailers don't come cheap.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Nah, it was because DLC had a significantly reduced budget and those CG trailers don't come cheap.

Look at Corrin's DLC trailer.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I find it amusing that Jigglypuff is the only 64 vet not shown among the 19 vets in the background(if that recreated image is accurate). Poor Jiggly is probably doomed to be the worst character again because Nintendo seems to sometimes forget she's in the game.

While I wouldn't say Nintendo herself "forgets" that she's in the game, her development has always been low priority among the cast in each Smash game. And after Melee, she's largely been relegated to just being the obligatory "joke" character once again.

Which is a shame, IMO. She doesn't need to be one of the game's best characters, but I truly wish she was a much more viable character again. The Puff deserves better than this. At least I think so anyway.

 

[N3ON]

Look at Corrin's DLC trailer.

The one with reused assets?

Look at all the other ones.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

The one with reused assets?

Maybe, that one has the most work put into it. Do you know how much of it was reused?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Corrin got in. Isn't that enough?

 

[NintenRob]

Yeah wasn't Corrins trailer just the same scene from Fire Emblem fates?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Yeah wasn't Corrins trailer just the same scene from Fire Emblem fates?

Wait was it? I never played Fates so I assumed it was originally done.

 

[N3ON]

Maybe, that one has the most work put into it. Do you know how much of it was reused?

Ummm... all of it? It's lifted directly from a Fates' cutscene. Then it's just Smash footage as normal.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Ummm... all of it? It's lifted directly from a Fates' cutscene. Then it's just Smash footage as normal.

What about the part when the option shows up?

 

[N3ON]

What about the part when the option shows up?

If your argument is a five second UI mockup is custom to a Smash trailer that doesn't exactly speak to the magnitude of the DLC trailer budget.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

If your argument is a five second UI is custom to a Smash trailer that doesn't exactly speak to the magnitude of the DLC trailer budget.

I'm not arguing, I'm just curious.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Not meaning during the Direct, I'm meaning the trailer itself on YouTube. All of the other trailers, when uploaded, had the slash at the beginning.

Neither Villager nor Wii Fit Trainer started with the iconic moment, and for the same reason. Both utilized a strategy wherein the surprise was that the trailer was for the character getting into Smash, rather than all subsequent which presented which specific Smash character was getting into the game.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

because she doesn't seem to fit in with all the other characters. shes seems out of place most of the time. also she is considered a broken character in competitive play so unbalances are another reason for her exclusion.

This line of thinking seems very arbitrary to me. Whether she fits or not depends on one's own perceptions, and from the perspective of Sakurai, Nintendo, Sega, Platinum, Kamiya and the people who voted for her she was a fine addition to the game. She is not really that outlandish when the cast is already outlandish by itself.
And being "broken" isn't a good reason either. You fix that by tweaking the character, not by removing it. They didn't remove Pikachu after 64 and Meta Knight after Brawl just because the competitive scene deemed them OP, they just adjusted them. And that's without mentioning that the scene doesn't dictate anything when it comes to adding/removing characters.
Just saying, I found that none of what you mentioned is very good reasoning to remove Bayo at all.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not arguing, I'm just curious.

Well, no, the option to "join Smash" is not present in Fates, but the rest is also lifted from the game, yes.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Neither Villager nor Wii Fit Trainer started with the iconic moment, and for the same reason. Both utilized a strategy wherein the surprise was that the trailer was for the character getting into Smash, rather than all subsequent which presented which specific Smash character was getting into the game.

Wii Fit's trailer is the only trailer AFAIK that doesn't have the slash in the standalone version

 

[Deleted member]

@BluePikmin11 , there is going to be cuts for Smash Switch.

It depends on if it is a full-fledged sequel or not. A port probably won't cut isn't and even a Splatoon 2 situation may keep everyone since in that case, it would be a lot more similar to the last game than the previous installments.

For the love of God, no.

We need a Horrified rating for this.

so i'm gonna go on a limb here and say that with the current smash 4 roster (assuming there are no cuts) how many more characters do you guys think will be added in? i'd say 6 to 8 new characters.

That's a good question.

For a port, somewhere between four to eight characters. If it's in between like N3ON described, then eight to twelve. If it's a full-fledged game, then definitely in the double digits (but where is the question).

This includes Inklings and any veterans.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

I don't think it's that Nintendo necessarily doesn't care about Jigglypuff or thinks they're a joke as much as they just either don't understand how to balance them or just aren't trying to make them a specifically great 1v1 character. Doesn't Sakurai have a weird philosophy when it comes to balancing characters, something something every mode?

With the more eSports and competitive focused marketing with the Switch, we might see that change, but I wouldn't hold my breath either.

 

[Retroend]

This line of thinking seems very arbitrary to me. Whether she fits or not depends on one's own perceptions, and from the perspective of Sakurai, Nintendo, Sega, Platinum, Kamiya and the people who voted for her she was a fine addition to the game. She is not really that outlandish when the cast is already outlandish by itself.
And being "broken" isn't a good reason either. You fix that by tweaking the character, not by removing it. They didn't remove Pikachu after 64 and Meta Knight after Brawl just because the competitive scene deemed them OP, they just adjusted them. And that's without mentioning that the scene doesn't dictate anything when it comes to adding/removing characters.
Just saying, I found that none of what you mentioned is very good reasoning to remove Bayo at all.

even so, she doesn't feel right for the game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

For a port, somewhere between four to eight characters. If it's in between like N3ON described, then eight to twelve. If it's a full-fledged game, then definitely in the double digits (but where is the question).

This includes Inklings and any veterans.

I kind of keep forgetting how many chars are out there to keep track of since last time - almost reaching to 60 since Smash 4.

Pretty stoked to see this increase even further from here on out.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

even so, she doesn't feel right for the game.

In your opinion.

Personally, I wouldn't at all mind Bayonetta being gone... I would actually prefer not having her there, she is uncomfortably sexualized in an otherwise fairly kid-friendly game. I generally find her to gross me out, and her design to be as unfun to play against as possible, but that's just my opinion; there's no real good reason to remove any character outside of what the devs wish to be in the game (or, more importantly, have time to add.)

 

[Retroend]

It depends on if it is a full-fledged sequel or not. A port probably won't cut isn't and even a Splatoon 2 situation may keep everyone since in that case, it would be a lot more similar to the last game than the previous installments.

We need a Horrified rating for this.

That's a good question.

For a port, somewhere between four to eight characters. If it's in between like N3ON described, then eight to twelve. If it's a full-fledged game, then definitely in the double digits (but where is the question).

This includes Inklings and any veterans.

i'd say a roster of 66 or 68 characters would be big enough. though of course i want some cuts to add more characters.

 

[Staarih]

The "fiery slash" was really just a Smash 4 thing, it appeared for that game first and was used for specific character trailers (also a new thing for that game). They might go a different route this time, not necessarily even have such specific trailers but just a few here and there with a clump of characters. And instead of the fiery slash, have nothing (or the big fiery smash logo as a recurring element). One time doesn't make a pattern.

 

[Deleted member]

I kind of keep forgetting how many chars are out there to keep track of since last time - almost reaching to 60 since Smash 4.

Pretty stoked to see this increase even further from here on out.

Fifty-eight characters. I mean man, that is massive. The thought of a roster potentially passing sixty, sixty-five, seventy characters is overwhelming. And really, we should be asking ourselves, do we need more characters to play as? When people complain about the roster, it is never about the roster size but because their favorite character didn't make it. A 70+ roster isn't going to get Ridley in if Sakurai won't change his mind on adding him.

Personally I'm fine with a roster size around what we have. I've already accepted that cuts outside of a port are a reality so unless said character will make a big difference in sales, why bother complaining? Besides, when the inevitable full-fledged sequel comes along, we'll need to kick out a few stragglers anyway. In fact, so long as they keep all of the necessary characters, they could do thirty-five and I'd still line up. More is not always better.

I used to get excited at the thoughts of a larger roster but now an even larger one just seems bloated and unnecessary.

i'd say a roster of 66 or 68 characters would be big enough. though of course i want some cuts to add more characters.

That's not how cuts work. More cuts do not make room for more characters. Technical constraints, licensing issues, and not being recent are more prevalent.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Only Corrin had CGI

Corrin borrowed a scene from his game.

No new CGI was made.

EDIT:

Looks like you know that now though.

 

[Cazzone]

People expecting Zelda’s botw design amuse me.
It’s obvious they’re going to keep the TP one, even if Link is in his botw outfit and Botw was a massive success worldwide.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

and not being recent are more prevalent.

Name one character cut for not being recent.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Name one character cut for not being recent.

While not being the main reason, Ice Climbers' lack of upcoming anything meant time wasn't spent getting them to work on the 3DS.

 

[N3ON]

People expecting Zelda’s botw design amuse me.
It’s obvious they’re going to keep the TP one, even if Link is in his botw outfit and Botw was a massive success worldwide.

You listed two very compelling reasons why she'd be in her BotW apparel, and none for your position.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I want thick Zelda in smash.
I also hope they'll keep 8-player smash somehow.

 

[Deleted member]

Name one character cut for not being recent.

Wolf, Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Lucas.

Being playable doesn't magically protect veterans from a lack of appearances in recent years. Otherwise, why did Ganondorf make it over Mewtwo in Brawl? Recency is a big factor in deciding inclusions and it's not going away.

 

[Opossum]

Wolf, Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Lucas.

Being playable doesn't magically protect veterans from a lack of appearances in recent years. Otherwise, why did Ganondorf make it over Mewtwo in Brawl? Recency is a big factor in deciding inclusions and it's not going away.

I'd say Mother 3 being Japan-only (which wasn't decided when Sakurai put Lucas in Brawl) was the far bigger factor for Lucas initially getting cut than recency. We know that they were deciding between Ness and Lucas from the Gematsu leak, so if recency was the deciding factor there, Ness would have been cut. Original Twelve Immunity is a theory at most.

 

[DJDave189]

It would be nice if they added some type of adventure mode again.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wolf, Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Lucas.

But Dr. Mario and Roy were intended for Brawl meaning lack of recency wasn't the factor when cutting them. Plus Dr. Mario was still a recent character.

Pichu was cut due to unpopularity.

We have no data on Wolf or Lucas. For all we know, they were planned but they just ran out of time.

Being playable doesn't magically protect veterans from a lack of appearances in recent years. Otherwise, why did Ganondorf make it over Mewtwo in Brawl? Recency is a big factor in deciding inclusions and it's not going away.

I think you're connecting two points that aren't connected. Ganondorf getting in has no basis on Mewtwo's inclusion.

Regardless your argument makes no sense.

If Mewtwo was cut due to not being recent (he wasn't) then why did we include Pokemon Trainer and the Gen I Starters in Brawl?

They are from the same game and any relevence that helped them clearly helped Mewtwo as well. He even had an anime special at the time.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

It would be nice if they added some type of adventure mode again.

Yeah, I'd take Melee's adventure mode again (I doubt they would make another SSE mode for this game).
If possible, with multiple paths.

 

[N3ON]

I'd say having no recent appearances, in some cases, could be cause for being low priority. And low priority in turn can be the cause for being cut.

So indirectly it could matter, sure. But it's just one factor.

 

[Stratos]

I'm glad that the Inklings came as newcomers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd say having no recent appearances, in some cases, could be cause for being low priority. And low priority in turn can be the cause for being cut.

So indirectly it could matter, sure. But it's just one factor.

This could mean cuts in the department of the larger franchises. Up till now only Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and Fire Emblem had characters cut from the roster. It could happen again but am confident Mario won't get cuts. Not so sure about the other franchises.