Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Rocket Raccoon]

Well it was meant to be a surprise announcement.


It's basic teaser trailer stuff. Like this is the stuff cinema has been doing for their stuff for years.
It's just a teaser and nothing more. It doesn't say anything about how the direction will go.


Like okay I know I'm being that guy who has to ruin all the fun. But I do feel like it's important to say again: There is no conspiracy.

The three major points of the trailer are as follows:

• There is a new Smash game for the Switch.
• Inklings are a newcomer.
• It is coming out in 2018

That's it including a possible redesign for Link. Anything else after that is nothing. This is the most info you will get out of the teaser trailer. We will not know anything until Nintendo makes an actual honest to God trailer with actual honest to god gameplay.
Even the silhouettes look to be characters that we already knew where going to in the game in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with speculating of course, but trust me when I say this is the most you're going to get out of this. You won't find any proof of it being a remake or a new game, the tone it's going for, or whether or not it's going to be Melee.
There is no underlying message, there is no man behind the mirror.
There is no conspiracy.

Not meaning during the Direct, I'm meaning the trailer itself on YouTube. All of the other trailers, when uploaded, had the slash at the beginning.

 

[PK_Wonder]

What even makes a game a port vs a sequel? Surely not just having the same engine or skeleton, especially for a fighting game, a genre (in)famous for subtle mechanic and content evolutions from one entry to the next? People love throwing around the word 'port' without proper definitions.

 

[Substitution]

Not meaning during the Direct, I'm meaning the trailer itself on YouTube. All of the other trailers, when uploaded, had the slash at the beginning.

Yes that's what I mean.
It would ruin the surprise if during the smash teaser they just up and played it. The big "holy ****" moment was the scene with the giant Smash fireball. It's building up anticipation.

Now if they did that later it would make sense. Because we're already familiar with the game being a thing, and now it's showing "Hey, this is Smash stuff. You better pay attention."

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

What even makes a game a port vs a sequel? Surely not just having the same engine or skeleton, especially for a fighting game, a genre (in)famous for subtle mechanic and content evolutions from one entry to the next? People love throwing around the word 'port' without proper definitions.

• Significant visual changes
• Different menu
• Different HUD
• Different Battlefield
• Different Final Destination
• Overall pace of the game is changed
• Lots of newcomers
• Changes to veterans that normal balance patches wouldn't do

Just some stuff off of the top of my head

Yes that's what I mean.
It would ruin the surprise if during the smash teaser they just up and played it. The big "holy ****" moment was the scene with the giant Smash fireball. It's building up anticipation.

Now if they did that later it would make sense. Because we're already familiar with the game being a thing, and now it's showing "Hey, this is Smash stuff. You better pay attention."

I'm not talking during the Direct. When all of the trailers were uploaded to YouTube, regardless if the slash was shown are not in the Direct, all of the trailers had the slash.

 

[Substitution]

I'm not talking during the Direct. When all of the trailers were uploaded to YouTube, regardless if the slash was shown are not in the Direct, all of the trailers had the slash.

Because.... they were already in the trailers?
I'm not sure what the end plan is here. Nintendo doesn't do super secret edits to their trailers.
All of the Smash 4 trailers have the opening, because they all had the opening in the first place. Nintendo didn't edit them in post. Like seriously you can go the directs and see the trailers, they all had the opening.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

 

[GaroMaster]

I wouldn't mind a visual style between that of Smash 4 and Brawl. Have the characters still be bouncy and expressive, but they have more detail and a touch of realism. Almost like Melee's artstyle.
Also, just a pipedream, but I'd love to see a cel shaded Smash game in the vein of DBFZ. That would look sick! Imagine a Smash game that incorporated 2D animation for its artstyle.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Also, just a pipedream, but I'd love to see a cel shaded Smash game in the vein of DBFZ. That would look sick! Imagine a Smash game that incorporated 2D animation for its artstyle.

I think cel shading would be a bad idea. It's great if you're emulating a manga or your style is very cohesive (e.g. GG), but Smash is too varied for it to make sense.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Because.... they were already in the trailers?
I'm not sure what the end plan is here. Nintendo doesn't do super secret edits to their trailers.
All of the Smash 4 trailers have the opening, because they all had the opening in the first place. Nintendo didn't edit them in post. Like seriously you can go the directs and see the trailers, they all had the opening.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

I remember the Rosalina trailer did not have the slash at the beginning of the trailer during the Direct.

I'm saying that the Inkling teaser doesn't have it, which is more evidence.

 

[GaroMaster]

I think cel shading would be a bad idea. It's great if you're emulating a manga or your style is very cohesive (e.g. GG), but Smash is too varied for it to make sense.

Yeah, that's true. I'd just think it would be an interesting prospect to tackle.

 

[Substitution]

I remember the Rosalina trailer did not have the slash at the beginning of the trailer during the Direct.

I'm saying that the Inkling teaser doesn't have it, which is more evidence.

So... one trailer out of the dozen or so trailers they made didn't have it.
Thus this means... what? Like hell I checked the original E3 announcement of Smash 4 (like the trailer that first showed the game), that had the slash.

So one trailer doesn't have it in a Direct what of it?
What does this mean?
What are you on about?
What is this evidence of?
What is this conspiracy?

All you've done is given me a coincidence, put them together with glue, and are now calling it evidence of... something.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

So... one trailer out of the dozen or so trailers they made didn't have it.
Thus this means... what? Like hell I checked the original E3 announcement of Smash 4 (like the trailer that first showed the game), that had the slash.

So one trailer doesn't have it in a Direct what of it?
What does this mean?
What are you on about?
What is this evidence of?
What is this conspiracy?

When you shut down my thing it was a little reductionist, here I think it's wholly unjustified. I doubt it's anything but a stylistic progression, but it was no accident and you can at least grant that. Most likely it was, as you described what I noted earlier, a marketing tactic. They don't want to lump their new endeavor for their new product in with the old ads like it's for the same thing.

I still want to know what the second cross is... And until I'm proven wrong I'm just going to imagine it's Melee mode.

 

[Deathcarter]

If I may inject my opinion on the topic of Zelda rep, I honestly expect Sakurai to completely throw out all the usual rules about recency and one-shot characters and put Midna & Wolf Link in. Yeah relevancy and whatnot but let's be real, Sakurai has never given an iota of a damn about precedent and will go above and beyond in regard to repping a franchise if he likes it enough and considering the guy literally called Breath of the Wild a masterpiece:

http://sourcegaming.info/2017/05/09/very-close-very-different-sakurai-column-527/

"A week before writing this column, two wonderfully outstanding works were released and I was torn between how to spend my time. Horizon Zero Dawn (from here on out “Horizon”) and The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (further referred to as “Zelda”). By all means, play them both because they really are masterpieces.

With that being said, I am surprised by the fact that although there are aspects that are very close, there are other aspects that are very different."

I think its going to be Zelda's turn to get the rocket push to the moon.

Now why Midna and Wolf Link as opposed to a BOTW character or Impa? Simple, they're playable protagonists (albeit for one game) and being a popular protagonist pretty much always trumps being a popular villain or side character in Sakurai's book and for that matter everyone else's. Decade old or not, those two will beat any remaining non-Pokemon first party character you can think of in terms of hype including Ridley, K.Rool, or a third human Link. If Sakurai is determined to put in a 6th Zelda rep, and I'm willing to bet that he is this time, it absolutely will be those two.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

The real question is, does K. Rool bring anything special or unique to Smash Bros? If not, then Sakurai isn't going to add him.

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the first post in the link below is a great rundown of what the krafty kroc can bring to the Smash table: https://smashboards.com/threads/k-rools-kremling-kutthroats-the-end-for-smash.421769/

 

[Substitution]

When you shut down my thing it was a little reductionist, here I think it's wholly unjustified. I doubt it's anything but a stylistic progression, but it was no accident and you can at least grant that. Most likely it was, as you described what I noted earlier, a marketing tactic. They don't want to lump their new endeavor for their new product in with the old ads like it's for the same thing.

I still want to know what the second cross is... And until I'm proven wrong I'm just going to imagine it's Melee mode.

The reason I'm shutting this down is because there's nothing to go at.
Nintendo didn't leave us bread crumbs guys. There is nothing in the trailer that wholly states whether or not it's of anything.

The only thing we can do is wait. I'm sorry I have to be that guy who ruins the fun. But the more we try to argue back and forth over what the teaser means, the more people will be disappointed when it turns out the new game isn't anything like we thought the teaser was.

And I say, because I've seen this happen before. Where the hype is risen up so much, the moment we get the actual product people are angry. Because it's nothing like their envisioning of the product was.

 

[Yokta]

I really think that the additional Nintendo bosses should appear occasionally at the end of the Classic mode, rather than interrupt standard multiplayer matches.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

So... one trailer out of the dozen or so trailers they made didn't have it.
Thus this means... what? Like hell I checked the original E3 announcement of Smash 4 (like the trailer that first showed the game), that had the slash.

So one trailer doesn't have it in a Direct what of it?
What does this mean?
What are you on about?
What is this evidence of?
What is this conspiracy?

All you've done is given me a coincidence, put them together with glue, and are now calling it evidence of... something.

I'm saying, if you think if it were something for Smash 4 then it wouldn't have the slash in the beginning when the trailer itself was uploaded to YouTube.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I really think that the additional Nintendo bosses should appear occasionally at the end of the Classic mode, rather than interrupt standard multiplayer matches.

I think Melee's adventure mode would be great with SSE-style bosses. It would probably be best if it had branching paths, so there can be a lot of content and variety between runs without it getting too long.
Not that anything like that will be in this game, but it would be cool.

 

[Substitution]

I'm saying, if you think if it were something for Smash 4 then it wouldn't have the slash in the beginning when the trailer itself was uploaded to YouTube.

No.
Because there's no reason to. They uploaded the trailer as intended, to be a teaser for the new Smash.


And before anything mentions it, I understand speculation is a huge part of Smash. I was part of that during Smash 4. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to know what was part of the game.
But people back then kept trying to find all the hidden pieces, all the secrets in the trailers, and in the pictures, that maybe just maybe Sakurai gave us this elaborate puzzle. The secret that Ridley was in Smash, that K.Rool was in Smash, that somehow Gematsu was right and we really did get Chrom.

And when realized what happened and they were pulled along for nothing, they were pissed. I remember Ridley fans asking for Sakurai's head because they had convinced themselves that maybe he was hiding something for them and just for them.

All I'm saying is there's a limit. There is only so much searching and hunting one can do until you have to sit down and realize, it was never there in the first place.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

No.
Because there's no reason to. They uploaded the trailer as intended, to be a teaser for the new Smash.


And before anything mentions it, I understand speculation is a huge part of Smash. I was part of that during Smash 4. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to know what was part of the game.
But people back then kept trying to find all the hidden pieces, all the secrets in the trailers, and in the pictures, that maybe just maybe Sakurai gave us this elaborate puzzle. The secret that Ridley was in Smash, that K.Rool was in Smash, that somehow Gematsu was right and we really did get Chrom.

And when realized what happened and they were pulled along for nothing, they were pissed. I remember Ridley fans asking for Sakurai's head because they had convinced themselves that maybe he was hiding something for them and just for them.

All I'm saying is there's a limit. There is only so much searching and hunting one can do until you have to sit down and realize, it was never there in the first place.

I'm not analyzing for a secret puzzle. It's something that is obviously missing from previous Smash trailers.

 

[Bowserlick]

Gods no, Ike is not a furry! How dare you!?

Ike has blue arm pit fur.

And just like a wild animal he has no sympathy.

 

[Retroend]

so i'm gonna go on a limb here and say that with the current smash 4 roster (assuming there are no cuts) how many more characters do you guys think will be added in? i'd say 6 to 8 new characters.

 

[Substitution]

I'm not analyzing for a secret puzzle. It's something that is obviously missing from previous Smash trailers.

What you are doing right now, is trying to find a connection between two games.
You're evidence to me right now is:
Rosalina Trailer didn't have the slash until after the Direct.
Smash Teaser didn't have Slash.
Thus, the two are related.

Just one page ago you posted this:

Has someone not complied a list of evidence for and against it being a port/new game?

Given what I have (since all I'm going off of is your posts), you're trying to find a solution that shows whether or not this is an actual Smash 4 port. Again with a post before that:

I think that gives us some evidence that it's a new game.

On the other hand:
View attachment 138467

I dunno, I feel like we should keep tabs on that thing.

I give a reasoning for why it's nothing, but you are here telling me there is something here. That maybe the Youtube game has something, that maybe someone else has figured out all the clues about whether or not the game is a port.
Regarding a 60 second prerendered trailer that was meant to tease us.

We will not know anything until Nintendo says so. There is no other option we have but to wait. You're trying to find something in a video that is intended to tell us next to nothing.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I want to know everyone’s thoughts on the 3rd party characters returning.

Sonic? Megaman? Pac-Man? Ryu? Cloud? Bayonetta?

I’m worried because they were great additions to the roster, and I really don’t want to see any of them go.

Side note: I feel like Monster Hunter or Dragon Quest will get a rep on the roster this time around. Shovel Knight is a possibility too. In my dreams, Sora from Kingdom Hearts would be a newcomer.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

so i'm gonna go on a limb here and say that with the current smash 4 roster (assuming there are no cuts) how many more characters do you guys think will be added in? i'd say 6 to 8 new characters.

Exactly one after Inklings

Spoiler

Gooey

Spoiler

Purely to spite everyone calling for Waddle Dee and the people who accuse him of favoring his own creations

Spoiler

Also to spite himself, since he must be a masochist if he's still working on this series

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

What you are doing right now, is trying to find a connection between two games.
You're evidence to me right now is:
Rosalina Trailer didn't have the slash until after the Direct.
Smash Teaser didn't have Slash.
Thus, the two are related.

Just one page ago you posted this:



Given what I have (since all I'm going off of is your posts), you're looking for a solution that shows whether or not this is an actual Smash 4 port. Again with a post before that:



Again, I give a reasoning for why it's nothing, but you are here telling me there is something here. That maybe the Youtube game has something, that maybe someone else has figured out all the clues about whether or not the game is a port.
Regarding a 60 second prerendered trailer that was meant to tease us.

We will not know anything until Nintendo says so. There is no other option we have but to wait. You're trying to find something in a video that is intended to tell us next to nothing.

I think you're reading too much into my posts.

 

[Substitution]

I think you're reading too much into my posts.

Speak for yourself before you tell me who's reading too much.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Speak for yourself before you tell me who's reading too much.

Wow, rude.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

What you are doing right now, is trying to find a connection between two games.
You're evidence to me right now is:
Rosalina Trailer didn't have the slash until after the Direct.
Smash Teaser didn't have Slash.
Thus, the two are related.

That's not at all what he was saying. His point was that that trailer had the slash added for the standalone upload whereas this one did not, setting it apart from every previous trailer.

 

[Retroend]

I want to know everyone’s thoughts on the 3rd party characters returning.

Sonic? Megaman? Pac-Man? Ryu? Cloud? Bayonetta?

I’m worried because they were great additions to the roster, and I really don’t want to see any of them go.

Side note: I feel like Monster Hunter or Dragon Quest will get a rep on the roster this time around. Shovel Knight is a possibility too. In my dreams, Sora from Kingdom Hearts would be a newcomer.

sonic, megaman and pac man are more than likely to stay. as far as ryu, cloud, and bayonetta go, i;m not sure. people are gonna flame me for this but i rather have bayonetta get cut. not that its gonna happen, but i wish.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I want to know everyone’s thoughts on the 3rd party characters returning.

Sonic? Megaman? Pac-Man? Ryu? Cloud? Bayonetta?

I’m worried because they were great additions to the roster, and I really don’t want to see any of them go.

Side note: I feel like Monster Hunter or Dragon Quest will get a rep on the roster this time around. Shovel Knight is a possibility too. In my dreams, Sora from Kingdom Hearts would be a newcomer.

Monster Hunter is already in MvCI. I mean, it didn't stop Ryu but still.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

sonic, megaman and pac man are more than likely to stay. as far as ryu, cloud, and bayonetta go, i;m not sure. people are gonna flame me for this but i rather have bayonetta get cut. not that its gonna happen, but i wish.

May I ask why you want her removed? No flames, just curious.

 

[Retroend]

May I ask why you want her removed? No flames, just curious.

because she doesn't seem to fit in with all the other characters. shes seems out of place most of the time. also she is considered a broken character in competitive play so unbalances are another reason for her exclusion.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

because she doesn't seem to fit in with all the other characters. shes seems out of place most of the time. also she is considered a broken character in competitive play so unbalances are another reason for her exclusion.

How doesn't she fit in?

 

[WiFi]

Most characters in Smash have knockback-based moves, while it seems like Bayonetta, Sheik, and Ryu's movesets were particularly designed to have combos.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

If you ask me, Ryu fits in the least out of all of Smash 4 characters.

 

[Mythra]

A character being broken doesn't warrant removal, as that can be fixed with patches.
Also, many stuff looks out of place in Smash, but that in some way is the point of the game.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

If you ask me, Ryu fits in the least out of all of Smash 4 characters.

Ironic since he's the only fighting game character.
Motions are odd, but looking at the character in game, Bayo's juggling mechanics are much stranger and her visual design is more out-of-place.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Do you guys also think the reason why we got less CGI trailers near the end of DLC was because of Sma5h?

 

[Mythra]

Do you guys also think the reason why we got less CGI trailers near the end of DLC was because of Sma5h?

Yes, specially for Mayo.
Cloud not having one kinda sucked tbh


Now I think the upcoming trailers will be pure CGI without gameplay as they might be saving the in-game footage for E3

 

[Icedragonadam]

I find it amusing that Jigglypuff is the only 64 vet not shown among the 19 vets in the background(if that recreated image is accurate). Poor Jiggly is probably doomed to be the worst character again because Nintendo seems to sometimes forget she's in the game.