Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chrono.]

Sega only does Sonic nowadays is a myth btw

Considering Yakuza, the recent revival of Sakura Wars they themselves announced, the also recent revival of Streets of Rage.

Not to mention the still ongoing Phantasy Star online stuff.

They’re resurging right now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Resonance of Fate getting a remaster here soon with Tri-Ace seemingly hinting at it.

Also Valkyria Chronicles.

Don't forget Project Diva.

That's pretty big as well.

 

[hazza5557]

I haven’t ever seen Nights mentioned here, she’s a Sega character isn’t she? How popular were her games. She’s one of the only characters that stood out to me playing Sonic and Sega All stars racing.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Pretty much.

It's either that or speculating when the next reveal is. Or the discussion on whether or not Isabelle is a semi-clone or not that got annoying after not even a day.

Tbh I’m super curious who unlucky 69 is going to be more than anything atm.

The jokes will haunt that character for the rest of eternity.

 

[Deleted member]

Sega only does Sonic nowadays is a myth btw

Considering Yakuza, the recent revival of Sakura Wars they themselves announced, the also recent revival of Streets of Rage.

Not to mention the still ongoing Phantasy Star online stuff.

They’re resurging right now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Resonance of Fate getting a remaster here soon with Tri-Ace seemingly hinting at it.

Also Valkyria Chronicles.

ok you got me there i have no idea what sega owns

Actually, let's get VC in Smash. Get two of the protagonists, one as an Echo, and incorporate all the classes in their moveset. Final Smash is a repurposed Landmaster

I'd also be okay with Yakuza. Never played it but I've been interested in it ever since all its memes started popping up in my Tumblr dash

 

[osby]

So, we're back to leak mania, right?

Leak Unleashed, also known as Leak World Adventure.

 

[Deleted member]

And call me optimistic but I think we’ll be getting more than 5 after this. The number of newcomers increased between each Smash game, I can’t see it suddenly decreasing, DLC notwithstanding.

I'm suuuuupppper skeptical of the idea there's a bunch more. What I don't think people keep in mind for this game is that the veterans from Melee and Brawl were completely remade, meaning they more than likely took just as much time as a newcomer from this game to make.

For me personally, I think it's best to keep expectations in check. There is a very, very strong possibility there is only going to be one more Smash presentation left with two characters and a few Echos. I fear a lot of people are going to overhype just how much content is left and end up disappointed...

 

[Will]

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Go Verge!
Ra, Ra, he's our man. If he can't leak it, no one can!

That's actually somewhat true. The fact that the game is rated and no ESRB leak happened prior does show something. Sakurai's paying for those night guards or something man.

 

[Abha]

Tbh I’m super curious who unlucky 69 is going to be more than anything atm.

The jokes will haunt that character for the rest of eternity.

Newcomer #69 is going to be the most wanted newcomer of whoever reads this post

 

[StormC]

Sakurai said on 8.8 there were a "few more" reveals left. He said this before K. Rool, and even did a hand gesture to emphasize it.

I really can't see more than 2-3 numbered fighters remaining.

 

[domriver]

So whats going on at this TGS event? when is it held? Should it be something to watch out for or what?

 

[Potato_]

Newcomer #69 is going to be the most wanted newcomer of whoever reads this post

Not even mad.

Also dunno if anyone's seen this but Nintendo of Japan's tweeting about a new big tourney for many games, including Smash Ultimate. Probably doesn't mean much, but they did add a banner about it to the smashbros site.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/live/index.html

 

[Koopaul]

Villager doesn't have any abilities either, they just use the equipment that literally all of the Villagers, animal or human, have, including Isabelle. The fact that they were able to pull from different uses of items and unused items (t. Fishing Rod, Popper, Lloyd) shows that there was definitely more they could've done.

You're missing my point. Isabelle has no abilities that are unique to her. She has no distinct abilities that no other character in Animal Crossing has, so she makes sense as an echo.

It's not a case where people were debating if Dixie could be an echo because she has a distinct ability that sets her apart from Diddy. There's nothing that Villager could do that she couldn't do and visaverse.

I will admit she'd look strange weilding an axe. But if Chrom can have a different Up Special than Isabelle could have a different down special.

 

[SonicMario]

Tbh I’m super curious who unlucky 69 is going to be more than anything atm.

The jokes will haunt that character for the rest of eternity.

I doubt people will care if it's their most wanted heh.

If Tails for me is 69 for example, so be it. I don't give a flying fox about it :V

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Sakurai said on 8.8 there were a "few more" reveals left. He said this before K. Rool, and even did a hand gesture to emphasize it.

I really can't see more than 2-3 numbered fighters remaining.

Man the CSS is gonna be so gigantic with how I’m doing it since, I’ll be separating Echoes instead of stacking.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

now that i've had a day to process this i;m 500% on the isabelle train and am definitely gonna play a lot of her when the game comes out. She looks super fun.

already considering switching my ultzelda icon to isabelle when it gets updated for a bit. Zelda will also be my main though. probably. ;p

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt people will care if it's their most wanted heh.

If Tails for me is 69 for example, so be it. I don't give a flying fox about it :V

TBH after seeing Isabelle make it in as a unique, I support Tails as a unique more than Shadow as an Echo. That said, I hope we get both so that everyone can be happy.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Calling 70 even for the roster. Only 2 more unique newcomers. Place your bets people.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

TBH after seeing Isabelle make it in as a unique, I support Tails as a unique more than Shadow as an Echo. That said, I hope we get both so that everyone can be happy.

Yeah, I can actually see them both...

Calling 70 even for the roster. Only 2 more unique newcomers. Place your bets people.

Incineroar
Geno

 

[StormC]

I'll say 71 so they can boast "over 70 fighters!" due to the numbering scheme.

Incineroar, Geno, and possibly another ballot character. Hopefully a certain duo...

 

[Moydow]

I doubt anything Smash-related will come out of TGS. Capcom are hosting the 40-minute Ace Attorney presentation on the 22nd, but I kind of doubt anything will come from there. I just don't want to get my hopes up too high, I'll be happy with just an AA7 reveal

 

[Q-Long]

Its not just one factor that impacts a character's decision though

Relevancy - Bayonetta back in Smash 4, Inkling, Greninja
Sales / Popularity - Isabelle (Animal Crossing is huge), Awakening characters instead of Epharaim or Sigurd
How new they are - Lucas was supposed to replace Ness in Melee, Wario has pure WarioWare design, Corrin, Roy in Melee
General Icon Status - Megaman, Pac-Man, Snake, Ryu (Bayo is an icon, just not at their level)
Iconic to Nintendo - Villager, Duck Hunt, Marth
How they work - Sakurai used to give this as a reason as to why Villager, Ridley, etc. weren't in
Sakurai's Personal Tastes - He had always wanted Pit in Smash, and look at all the KI stuff in Sm4sh
Fan Demand - Ridley, K Rool
Hardware Issues - Why ICs were cut
Other Factors - Kojima asked Sakurai for a favor, Sakurai is apparently also decent friends with Kamiya
Cloneability - It takes less dev time, it certainly pads out the roster, I still wonder why Ganondorf instead of Black Shadow though

In no order

Don't forget Project Diva.

That's pretty big as well.

Valkyria Chronicles too and wens new Skies of Arcadia SEGA!?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Many Mii Costumes from Smash 4 have been given upgrades/promotions to either an Assist Trophy character or a playable fighter

Sakurai's Personal Tastes - He had always wanted Pit in Smash, and look at all the KI stuff in Sm4sh

Still not enough Kid Icarus content in and outside of Smash...this hurts me soulless body

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Calling 70 even for the roster. Only 2 more unique newcomers. Place your bets people.

Incineroar is the only one i see as really likely now. so just him. i don't know who else i would pick.
preferably BWD and Skull Kid, but i'm having severe doubts on either of them now

 

[Dandelionel]

You're missing my point. Isabelle has no abilities that are unique to her. She has no distinct abilities that no other character in Animal Crossing has, so she makes sense as an echo.

It's not a case where people were debating if Dixie could be an echo because she has a distinct ability that sets her apart from Diddy. There's nothing that Villager could do that she couldn't do and visaverse.

I will admit she'd look strange weilding an axe. But if Chrom can have a different Up Special than Isabelle could have a different down special.

I mean a good portion of the cast of this game do not have abilities that are exclusive to them. Plus Isabelle uses the fishing rod and fishing is imporant in AC.

But most importantly, and this is coming from a FE fan, Isabelle was the most important character not in Smash from a saga which sells MILLIONS and is really popular, and AC only had one char. Meanwhile FE has 7 reps. So yeah, it makes sense as to why she is not an echo.

Also, she doesn't share the same proportions as Villager, since he uses the pre New Leaf model.

 

[Untouch]

There was a very early theory that suggested that Smashdown would require a final roster that had to be divisible by 2 3 and 4.
Right now we're at 74 including echos.
The next number divisible by 2, 3 and 4 is 84. Though that sounds like too many already, maybe we're getting a lot more echos?

If we can hide echos even in Smashdown we're at 68 and the next closest is 72.
4 characters and 6 echos seems like a safe bet.

 

[Blargg888]

Hot Take: should be the first to be decloned out of any Echo.

ok thank you for your time

I mean, that makes a lot of sense.
We've got six echo fighters so far:
Lucina, Dark Pit, Daisy, Richter, Chrom, and Dark Samus.

Fire Emblem and Mario are both series with a lot of unique characters, so while it would be cool to see them with unique movesets, Daisy, Chrom, and Lucina don't really need to be decloned, because they're already surrounded by unique fighters.

Now we're down to half: Dark Pit, Richter, and Dark Samus.

Then we have Richter. Richter doesn't really apply to the "This fighter is misrepresented" complaint that the other echo fighters get, because his and Simon's movesets are based on each other, so Richter already represents his home game just fine. Honestly, I'd say that Richter is just fine as is.

From there, it's just the Dark ones: Dark Pit and Dark Samus.

Comparing Metroid to Kid Icarus in Smash here, Metroid has 3 unique fighters and 1 echo fighter, whereas KI has 2 unique fighters and 1 echo fighter.

So it makes the most sense to declone Dark Pit first.

IMO, in terms of priority, I'd go:
Dark Pit > Dark Samus > Daisy > Lucina > Chrom > Richter.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Newcomer #69 is going to be the most wanted newcomer of whoever reads this post

Elma, I ain’t even mad, better her to be 69 than Isabelle

I'm suuuuupppper skeptical of the idea there's a bunch more. What I don't think people keep in mind for this game is that the veterans from Melee and Brawl were completely remade, meaning they more than likely took just as much time as a newcomer from this game to make.

For me personally, I think it's best to keep expectations in check. There is a very, very strong possibility there is only going to be one more Smash presentation left with two characters and a few Echos. I fear a lot of people are going to overhype just how much content is left and end up disappointed...

I hadn’t even considered that...about the cut veterans that is

Then again I kept my expectations low pre-E3 and they brought LITERALLY EVERYBODY back so the only way to go from here is up I’d think

 

[Garteam]

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to letting Midgar and a Dragon Quest stage share a soundtrack, just to prop up the number of songs.

 

[Chrono.]

Cloneability - It takes less dev time, it certainly pads out the roster, I still wonder why Ganondorf instead of Black Shadow though

Wasn't it because Ganondorf's spaceworld model fit Falcon's proportions, or is that another fandom myth?

 

[Potato_]

There was a very early theory that suggested that Smashdown would require a final roster that had to be divisible by 2 3 and 4.
Right now we're at 74 including echos.
The next number divisible by 2, 3 and 4 is 84. Though that sounds like too many already, maybe we're getting a lot more echos?

Even though I don't believe in the Smashdown theory (they could just reset it when you get to the end) I could totally see 5 more echoes and 5 more uniques.

 

[Soulsaint]

Lets throw in a stupid theory

#69 is Skullkid

Because 69 has two numbers reversed

And Skullkid reverses your inputs

 

[Guynamednelson]

There was a very early theory that suggested that Smashdown would require a final roster that had to be divisible by 2 3 and 4.
Right now we're at 74 including echos.
The next number divisible by 2, 3 and 4 is 84. Though that sounds like too many already, maybe we're getting a lot more echos?

Like I've said earlier, the game can always kick losers out when there's not enough characters left.

 

[Autobot N]

Incineroar
Geno

My predictions as well. And if we get one more after those two, then it's either Isaac or Skull Kid.

 

[Q-Long]

Many Mii Costumes from Smash 4 have been given upgrades/promotions to either an Assist Trophy character or a playable fighter

Still not enough Kid Icarus content in and outside of Smash...this hurts me soulless body

I think in Smash 4, if you compare it to the content players like Metroid, Donkey Kong, F-Zero, Wario, and Star Fox got, it got padded out real nicely. I would love a KIU 2 though.

I hope after Ultimately Sakurai has some time for original games. Whether its something he wants to do, or a reboot.

I think Ice Climbers would be perfect for him. Of the classic Nintendo characters they are the most unique, they're hikers that fight polar bears. He really fleshed out the world of KI well. I think he could do the same for the Ice Climbers.

As for Little Mac, Urban Champion, Sukapon, Mach Rider, Takamaru, Sable, Muddy Mole, they're all awesome characters, but similar ones already exist.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Is there a place where I can read all the documented "leaks", DaybreakHorizon ?

As of right now, no. This is an accordance with my policy to give "leakers" as little exposure as possible. If there's demand, I may consider changing this for specific users.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, for those who doubt Animal Crossing's popularity and question why Isabelle is in Smash at all, New Leaf alone sold 11.78 million units worldwide, and was one of the games that saved the 3DS and helped it survive this long.

Not to mention AC Switch will probably sell like crazy as well. I could easily see it outselling Zelda 10 to 1, and that's coming from someone who likes Zelda more than AC. It by no means is a minor franchise for Nintendo. Heck, I'd say it's up there with Pokemon, and is probably viewed as more profitable to them than even Zelda or Mario at this point.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Even though I don't believe in the Smashdown theory (they could just reset it when you get to the end) I could totally see 5 more echoes and 5 more uniques.

It could be any combination that adds up to 10, too, like for example, 7 more uniques and 3 more echoes.

My guesses (again lmao):
69. Elma
70. Waddle Dee
71. Heihachi
72. Lloyd
73. Chorus Kids or Isaac
74. Gen 7 Pokémon (either Incineroar or Buzzwole)
75. Square Enix character (hoping it’s Neku if the Dante leak is true)
76. Dante
8 uniques

Echoes:
60e. Ken
11e. Black Shadow
2 echoes

8 uniques + 2 echoes = 10 total. And yes it’s more likely we’ll have more echoes than uniques but lemme dream

 

[Q-Long]

My top 5 Metal Gear songs that should be in smash:

1. Arsenal Gear alert
2. MGS2 theme
3. The Fury
4. Heaven's Divide
5. Volgin's Theme

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to letting Midgar and a Dragon Quest stage share a soundtrack, just to prop up the number of songs.

Yeah. I know FF has a good OST and all but I wish Square would have been more understanding and not charge so much for them. He could add some Nintendo JRPG music too. Baiten Kaitos comes to mind.

Wasn't it because Ganondorf's spaceworld model fit Falcon's proportions, or is that another fandom myth?

I never heard of that. It does kinda make sense though.

 

[Icedragonadam]

There was a very early theory that suggested that Smashdown would require a final roster that had to be divisible by 2 3 and 4.
Right now we're at 74 including echos.
The next number divisible by 2, 3 and 4 is 84. Though that sounds like too many already, maybe we're getting a lot more echos?

That fits into my prediction list right now.

-Lloyd
-Heihachi
-Incineroar
-Geno
-Waddle Dee

-Hilda
-Ken
-Shadow
-Black Knight
-Ninten

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'll say 71 so they can boast "over 70 fighters!" due to the numbering scheme.

Incineroar, Genjo, and possibly another ballot character. Hopefully a certain duo...

But with the other way they count characters (on the about page) they can already do that. They have a lot of options in marketing on how many character they can boast about so I wouldn't base it on that.