Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

Do you guys think Heihachi and Lloyd are likely still? Namco has yet to show any new character after all, and if Konami, Capcom if Ken and/or Dante are true, and potentially Square Enix with their mystery newcomer are anything to go by...

I wonder if ProtonMail will ever get a follow up, too...

 

[Will]

Isabelle has no moveset pull from

Dude, she pulled a lot from Animal Crossing for source material. You can't just say she pulled it from "nothing".

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Keep in mind Vergeben had no idea about K. Rool so we can't rule out a left field reveal by any means. He doesn't have all the info.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77000204?jumpto=20#20
Here Vergeben sounds like he isn't even 100% sure we are getting a Square Enix rep.

No, he's saying he isn't 100% sure on the name. He's responding to the thread I made. I specifically asked him if he knew the name of the rep.

This is why I don't trust 100% everything with Verg. I'll go with Ken echo sure. But he knows there's a Pokemon and an SE character but not who??? How? I kind of get the Pokemon one and I'm starting to accept it's probably Inceniroar, but how could you know there's an SE rep but not know who? It's not like Sakurai would write SE rep on a project plan like he would for a new Pokemon.

While I'm not expecting too many more characters, I definitely think there is room to be surprised by what Vergeben doesn't know. Until he starts committing to names, all I'm following him on is Ken.

 

[osby]

Do you guys think Heihachi and Lloyd are likely still? Namco has yet to show any new character after all, and if Konami, Capcom if Ken and/or Dante are true, and potentially Square Enix with their mystery newcomer are anything to go by...

I wonder if ProtonMail will ever get a follow up, too...

Tbh, both would had their fans but it's really hard to say anything for now. But going from other companies is a bad idea, it didn't worked for the last game at all.

 

[Momotsuki]

I would have been fine with an echo Isabelle, but her being a semi-clone is even better and makes me super happy.

 

[Chrono.]

Do you guys think Heihachi and Lloyd are likely still? Namco has yet to show any new character after all, and if Konami, Capcom if Ken and/or Dante are true, and potentially Square Enix with their mystery newcomer are anything to go by...

I wonder if ProtonMail will ever get a follow up, too...

Unsure on Heihachi but I'm feeling pretty good about Lloyd.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I would have been fine with an echo Isabelle, but her being a semi-clone is even better and makes me super happy.

She seems to be the Wolf to Villager's Fox.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I think the biggest backlash is going to be if Square gets a 2nd rep but not Geno.


I can imagine the sea of salt already.

I disagree. Square Enix has a ton of popular characters that would easily overshadow the salt from the hardcore smash community + I bet there are some Geno fans like me who would be happy with any Square rep (any....).

 

[BluePikmin11]

Made another one:

I want Frogger in this game so badly now.

 

[Will]

Hot Take: should be the first to be decloned out of any Echo.

ok thank you for your time

Made another one:

I want Frogger in this game so badly now.

That's not even close to a rainbow.
Why are there two blues this doesn't make sense

 

[Paperchampion23]

https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-2978#post-22284899

Courtesy of @tehponycorn.

This interesting. Not that I entirely trust it, but it wouldn't be out of the ordinary if Bamco has a show at TGS next week and they announce Heihachi and Lloyd as Smash characters. It would make sense.

This is why I don't trust 100% everything with Verg. I'll go with Ken echo sure. But he knows there's a Pokemon and an SE character but not who??? How? I kind of get the Pokemon one and I'm starting to accept it's probably Inceniroar, but how could you know there's an SE rep but not know who? It's not like Sakurai would write SE rep on a project plan like he would for a new Pokemon.

While I'm not expecting too many more characters, I definitely think there is room to be surprised by what Vergeben doesn't know. Until he starts committing to names, all I'm following him on is Ken.

Vergeben has second hand info. He doesn't know because he doesn't know. He says he doesn't get all the info. A Pokemon rep and a SE rep likely are more tight-lipped than other reps. Its not that hard to consider "how" he doesn't know the rep names.

 

[Deleted member]

Isabelle >>>> Dark Samus in terms of popularity

That's literally just it. "This character is beloved by all, let's put a bit more care into her" vs "This character is only popular overseas and we don't know why... she can be like Samus so let's make it that way so we can put her, make people happy and more". It's not that hard of a conclusion to make.

Btw I gotta say Isabelle plays more like I wish Villager did than Villager himself does, it seems she's a bit more true to the series.

While I do enjoy playing the Villager off and on, I will use Isabelle WAAAAAY more simply because her kit looks so much more fun than Villager's.

Also, she's super heckin' cute. That alone will make me wanna main her.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Actually, every DQ protagonist practically fills the same niche so I honestly could see all 10 mainline DQ protags being alternate costumes XD

That’d be cool, but not all of them actually do.

I’d have a hard time seeing Dadtagonist of 5 using the likely sword inspired moveset when most of his main art involves him using a stave .

 

[osby]

She seems to be the Wolf to Villager's Fox.

Would Lucas be a better comparison?

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

Most likely. I just meant that if Ken gets in as a unique character I'd be annoyed Chun-Li wasn't chosen instead. Ken as an Echo makes more sense.

It's Koei Tecmo you're looking for and, no, it seems likely that Nintendo fully owns all Hyrule Warriors original characters.

Also, pissed off half the fanbase? Linkle was put into Legends because people fell in love with her concept art from the art book for the JP original game's special edition. People want her implemented into the main games as an Alt gender for Link. I rarely see people hating on Linkle.

As for Skull Kid, how well did he do in the Ballot is the question here. Does Sakurai even know he's popular? I don't recall a lot of people requesting him during Smash 4 Speculation nor the Ballot.

Awesome, then Lana may have a chance at starring in a mainline Zelda game.

I like Linkle, maybe I I was overbroadening what I saw, but I have had countless conversations with Zelda fans that absolutely loathe her.

If no one asked for Skull Kid in Sm4sh, that's because he was confirmed as an assist pretty early on. I for one have been rallying for him since Melee.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Would Lucas be a better comparison?

Both work.

 

[Chrono.]

That’d be cool, but not all of them actually do.

I’d have a hard time seeing Dadtagonist of 5 using the likely sword inspired moveset when most of his main art involves him using a stave .

Not to mention some might be shorter/taller than others.

7's protag is a shorty.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Do you guys think Heihachi and Lloyd are likely still? Namco has yet to show any new character after all, and if Konami, Capcom if Ken and/or Dante are true, and potentially Square Enix with their mystery newcomer are anything to go by...

I wonder if ProtonMail will ever get a follow up, too...

I mean, its possible. I can see TGS being a possible location for their reveals since both Heihachi and Lloyd are primarily popular in Japan. Plus Bamco is behind every other 3rd party for including characters in smash, and ironically they make the game.

 

[Koopaul]

Dude, she pulled a lot from Animal Crossing for source material. You can't just say she pulled it from "nothing".

I didn't say she pulled from nothing I said Isabelle herself (not the fighter) has no inherent moves or abilities from her game. She is the mayors assistant. Meaning she was a blank slate in terms of powers. The whole, "she can pull moves from Animal Crossing in general" is why she made sense as an echo. Because Villager already does that.

And yes I understand why they put more effort into her because she is incredibly popular. But she is the one super popular character the fans would have been fine with being just an echo and actually makes sense to be an echo.

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

Koei-Tecmo is who does the Warriors titles and many others like DoA, and various tactical games and back when they were separate.

Koei is very known for its historical simulations and Tecmo for stuff like Ninja Gaiden.

Interesting. Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it.

 

[EnthusedPanda]

This is why I don't trust 100% everything with Verg. I'll go with Ken echo sure. But he knows there's a Pokemon and an SE character but not who??? How? I kind of get the Pokemon one and I'm starting to accept it's probably Inceniroar, but how could you know there's an SE rep but not know who? It's not like Sakurai would write SE rep on a project plan like he would for a new Pokemon.

While I'm not expecting too many more characters, I definitely think there is room to be surprised by what Vergeben doesn't know. Until he starts committing to names, all I'm following him on is Ken.

It's likely not all of his sources are 100% verified to be trustworthy. He's just playing it safe, we all know the ****storm and finger-pointing that would go down if he were found to be blatantly wrong about something... which he hasn't been yet.

 

[Deleted member]

@ 3rd Parties

Capcom
People are really sleeping on Dante. I'm no DMC fan nor do I particularly care about getting into it but after Snake and Cloud, anything that has even slightly touched a Nintendo console is fair game. There's a lot of Capcom stuff I'd like to see before him though, mainly Phoenix Wright and Chun Li but it's not like I'd mind him being in. Besides, I know my best friend is a huge DMC nerd so he'd probably be hyped about it.

Bamco
Heihachi is also another character I feel people severely underestimate, they live to bring up Mii Costumes but conveniently leave him out. Still, he's another Dante to me, I can easily see him in but I'd prefer other stuff from Bamco, mainly something from SoulCalibur. I like what I've played of Tekken but Heihachi himself never appealed to me.

Square Enix
Dragon Quest. Again, I can see it happening, though I feel Geno has the advantage of being acknowledged by Sakurai. It's still Square's most likely series to be represented next but I don't think it'll happen unless they really go all out with 3Ps. If we're going by that leak that claimed no Geno, then it's either DQ or another FF character, who could be either Sephiroth or someone from the SNES era like Cecil or Terra Celes. rip in pepperoni crono
Again, same deal with Dante, a lot of stuff from SE that I want to see but only so much space to go around.

SEGA
Really no ****ing idea as far as new series go unless you wanna count Atlus franchises as theirs in which case be my guest, we're getting Part 4's protagonist, that's my bet.
SEGA only does Sonic nowadats so might as well give them Tails and Shadow, I'd be super okay with that even if my interest in Sonic characters begins and ends with no one(still love the games tho s2).

Personal oicks would be Phoenix Wright(with Edgewirth as his Echo), Chun Li, Nightmare, literally anything from Atlus and mother****ing Crono.

 

[Dandelionel]

I would have been fine with an echo Isabelle, but her being a semi-clone is even better and makes me super happy.

Tbh I was convinced that she would be an echo so I was like "cool" but after seeing her I was like "how is her moveset so PERFECT"

Seriously Isabelle was one of my most wanteds and they did her so much justice. She is my fav newcomer revealed yet and it's really, really likely that it's going to stay that way (unless somehow someone like Ayumi or Agnès is in the game and has a good moveset as well)

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I didn't say she pulled from nothing I said Isabelle herself (not the fighter) has no inherent moves or abilities from her game. She is the mayors assistant. Meaning she was a blank slate in terms of powers. The whole, "she can pull moves from Animal Crossing in general" is why she made sense as an echo. Because Villager already does that.

Isabelle's a Pacifist. She would never wield an Axe or wear Boxing gloves. She makes sense as a semiclone to me.

 

[Will]

I didn't say she pulled from nothing I said Isabelle herself (not the fighter) has no inherent moves or abilities from her game. She is the mayors assistant. Meaning she was a blank slate in terms of powers. The whole, "she can pull moves from Animal Crossing in general" is why she made sense as an echo. Because Villager already does that.

Villager doesn't have any abilities either, they just use the equipment that literally all of the Villagers, animal or human, have, including Isabelle. The fact that they were able to pull from different uses of items and unused items (t. Fishing Rod, Popper, Lloyd) shows that there was definitely more they could've done.

 

[Deleted member]

I very highly doubt there's going to be region exclusive reveals like Shulk this go around, which is what a TGS reveal would be. Every reveal has been worldwide so far, and I just don't see them changing that for no reason. Not to mention if there was a Smash reveal, Nintendo would be there with demos and have a sizable presence, which we already know they don't.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also before anyone says, “But Heihachi’s VO passed away!” they could have recorded the lines far, far ahead of time. Or they could recycle clips if the former didn’t happen. They do it all the time with Igor from the Persona series after his VO died - old clips reused for infinity, while the designated assistant says anything “new” so to speak.

I still say tho that “Not the complete list.” In the original email makes me think there’ll be a follow up. And call me optimistic but I think we’ll be getting more than 5 after this. The number of newcomers increased between each Smash game, I can’t see it suddenly decreasing, DLC notwithstanding.

 

[Deleted member]

This is why I don't trust 100% everything with Verg. I'll go with Ken echo sure. But he knows there's a Pokemon and an SE character but not who??? How? I kind of get the Pokemon one and I'm starting to accept it's probably Inceniroar, but how could you know there's an SE rep but not know who? It's not like Sakurai would write SE rep on a project plan like he would for a new Pokemon.

While I'm not expecting too many more characters, I definitely think there is room to be surprised by what Vergeben doesn't know. Until he starts committing to names, all I'm following him on is Ken.

I've said this before, but its awhile back.

It's not that Verg doesn't know who the reps are; that's not why he's keeping silent on the information.

Verge doesn't have any info himself; he has connections to people who get him information. Out of the sources he trusts, they all mention a new Pokemon rep and a Square Enix rep. That's why he's willing to say that much. However, only 1 of these sources has flat out said it was Incineroar; the others are still probing. Becuase Verg's not 100% sure and getting that same answer from the other sources he trusts, he won't post what he knows fully. He doesn't post specific characters until he's 100% certain. Lo' and Behold, he has specifically mentioned Ridley, IC & Snake returning, Simon Belmont, and Isabelle and those characters have all been confirmed.

If he gets conflicting info from his sources, he will not state the rep. If he's hasn't heard about the information directly (like about all veterans returning), he'll remain quiet on it.

All he knows is that from the people he trusts, there will be a Pokemon rep and a Square Enix rep; but as to who it is, only 1 of his sources is definitive on the Pokemon while none of them are confident about the SE rep.

I think for the time being, if he says there's a new Pokemon Rep and a new Square Enix rep, it's safe to assume that's true. He's gotten way too much right to be just "guessing" at this point and politeness be damned, but anyone who thinks that Simon Belmont, Ridley, or Snake were 'likely' are idiots.

 

[Chrono.]

I very highly doubt there's going to be region exclusive reveals like Shulk this go around, which is what a TGS reveal would be. Every reveal has been worldwide so far, and I just don't see them changing that for no reason. Not to mention if there was a Smash reveal, Nintendo would be there with demos and have a sizable presence, which we already know they don't.

Yeah, Nintendo's only at TGS for "business reasons."

Whatever that means.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

@ 3rd Parties

Capcom
People are really sleeping on Dante. I'm no DMC fan nor do I particularly care about getting into it but after Snake and Cloud, anything that has even slightly touched a Nintendo console is fair game. There's a lot of Capcom stuff I'd like to see before him though, mainly Phoenix Wright and Chun Li but it's not like I'd mind him being in. Besides, I know my best friend is a huge DMC nerd so he'd probably be hyped about it.

Bamco
Heihachi is also another character I feel people severely underestimate, they live to bring up Mii Costumes but conveniently leave him out. Still, he's another Dante to me, I can easily see him in but I'd prefer other stuff from Bamco, mainly something from SoulCalibur. I like what I've played of Tekken but Heihachi himself never appealed to me.

Square Enix
Dragon Quest. Again, I can see it happening, though I feel Geno has the advantage of being acknowledged by Sakurai. It's still Square's most likely series to be represented next but I don't think it'll happen unless they really go all out with 3Ps. If we're going by that leak that claimed no Geno, then it's either DQ or another FF character, who could be either Sephiroth or someone from the SNES era like Cecil or Terra Celes. rip in pepperoni crono
Again, same deal with Dante, a lot of stuff from SE that I want to see but only so much space to go around.

SEGA
Really no ****ing idea as far as new series go unless you wanna count Atlus franchises as theirs in which case be my guest, we're getting Part 4's protagonist, that's my bet.
SEGA only does Sonic nowadats so might as well give them Tails and Shadow, I'd be super okay with that even if my interest in Sonic characters begins and ends with no one(still love the games tho s2).

Personal oicks would be Phoenix Wright(with Edgewirth as his Echo), Chun Li, Nightmare, literally anything from Atlus and mother****ing Crono.

Sega only does Sonic nowadays is a myth btw

Considering Yakuza, the recent revival of Sakura Wars they themselves announced, the also recent revival of Streets of Rage.

Not to mention the still ongoing Phantasy Star online stuff.

They’re resurging right now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Resonance of Fate getting a remaster here soon with Tri-Ace seemingly hinting at it.

Also Valkyria Chronicles.

 

[Will]

SEGA only does Sonic nowadays

Why do people sincerely believe this?

 

[Iridium]

So, we're back to leak mania, right?

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

Yeah, Nintendo's only at TGS for "business reasons."

Whatever that means.

Everything they do has business reasons. They're a business. What. Lol.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Also before anyone says, “But Heihachi’s VO passed away!” they could have recorded the lines far, far ahead of time. Or they could recycle clips if the former didn’t happen. They do it all the time with Igor from the Persona series after his VO died - old clips reused for infinity, while the designated assistant says anything “new” so to speak.

I still say tho that “Not the complete list.” In the original email makes me think there’ll be a follow up. And call me optimistic but I think we’ll be getting more than 5 after this. The number of newcomers increased between each Smash game, I can’t see it suddenly decreasing, DLC notwithstanding.

When ever the final Smash Direct is, it'll definitely have more than 2 Unique Newcomers IMO. They gotta end it with a bang after all.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Why do people sincerely believe this?

Because they’re blind Nintendo fans who think Sega only has ever done Sonic since the 90s.

 

[Mutsukki]

Why do people sincerely believe this?

Yeah, like... this was true back in, idk, 2013? And still Yakuza always kept going strong. Sega is rising up again, no reason people should still echo this sentiment

 

[Chrono.]

So, we're back to leak mania, right?

No this is Leak Forces.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Oh, I just remembered something else that Vergeben said at one point, and that is that there is a newcomer that he didn't wanna say who it is because is a "controversial" character. Good god I hope it isn't Goku..

Dante seems even more likely now...

Definitely controversial and his leaks has consistently remained while a bunch of others has died along with LoZ

 

[Potato_]

So, we're back to leak mania, right?

Pretty much.

It's either that or speculating when the next reveal is. Or the discussion on whether or not Isabelle is a semi-clone or not that got annoying after not even a day.

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

So, we're back to leak mania, right?

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Go Verge!
Ra, Ra, he's our man. If he can't leak it, no one can!