Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Danpal65]

Alright, so new day, new wait. Do we know around what time we should expect an announcement for a direct....if its coming tomorrow?

Also...any new games? It feels so dry here, my lips get cracked just by looking at the screen.

If we are getting an announcement for a Friday Direct (Thursday for the US) it would typically be in about 2 hours.

 

[PLATINUM7]

But how? That confrontation with Dracula in the prologue of Symphony is one of the most famous scenes in video games, I could probably recite it word for word even though I’ve never played Symphony once.

I've never played Symphony of the Night and didn't know Richter was in it until his reveal. All I ever see people talk about for SotN is Alucard.

The only Castlevania games I've played are I-IV, so I only recognised Richter as the character from Rondo of Blood screenshots.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I'd rather want Big Boss as an echo and perhaps a unique cyborg Raiden as potential dlc.

The Big Boss thing would be weird because Solid Snake’s appearance in Smash seems to actually be based on Big Boss’s MGS3 design in terms of his face. Solid Snake never gets a beard, but Big Boss does.

They could add MGSV “Big Boss” and call him Venom Snake. At least with that the face is a little different, and he has the horn and the robo-arm.

I’d rather have MGS2 Raiden for a Snake echo, but would rather have a unique cyborg Raiden above that.

 

[Xgears]

I mean official information from Sakurai/Nintendo is typically good enough for most people, but okay.

Check his reveal trailer and his character trailer. The only different move he has is Ike's up-b.

Oh and he's an echo not a semi-clone because Sakurai said so.

His side tilt also different.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

This is assuming they just wait to punish you. Standing in place and using shield also counters Rock Smash, from my experience. The 72 frames of Rock Smash, with 26 of those frames being endlag, is a huge deal regardless of if you're producing a hitbox or not.

Rock Smash deals 30% damage fresh, which is over two-thirds a shield, and the rock particles are likely to poke a weakened shield. It is possible to just shield a Rock Smash and punish, but many many many times my opponents just got their shield poked if their shield wasn't at full health, and I've even gotten a few shield breaks from it. Unless you know your shield is at full health, the way to punish Rock Smash was to try actively maneuvering into a position where Rock Smash won't threaten while you can remain in a position to punish (optimally behind Zard, though Zard can read this and reverse Rock Smash), or if you read Zard going to land right next to you with Rock Smash, you grab him like you would for a counter, which either way requires a lot more proactivity on your part to deal with than just seeing if the especially noticeable Pokemon Change animation happens and punishing on reaction.

You don't have to play all three equally, just competently enough to 1) not get your butt totally kicked during that time and 2) get a throw or Smash attack so you can launch your opponent far enough away that its safe to switch. If you have solid fundamentals and understand each pokemon's kits to a basic degree, you should be able to play all of them somewhat competently. Yeah I can't pull off Mega Man's crazy footstool combos or consistently kill with DHD but if I can still get a grab with them and toss my opponent offstage, I don't see why someone couldn't do that with Squirtle or Ivysaur with practice.

You really don't seem to grasp just how hard it's going to be to get back to your optimal mon against a near-equivalent or better player from disadvantage, escaping disadvantage and then winning neutral enough with a worse character to do 2 switches without taking a lot of damage or losing your stock in the meantime is no simple task. "Just grab them and throw them offstage" is going to be a lot easier said than done while you're getting juggled or are offstage against such a player. Sometimes it will work out the way you plan, just like very occasionally when Sheiks switch to Zelda in Melee to recover they can get back to the stage safely and land a Lightning Kick without getting hit to switch back without issue, but the majority of the time it's not going to work out that way and thus it's something that should be reserved as a desperation move when all your options are exhausted and you're facing probable stock loss.

 

[YoshiandToad]

But how? That confrontation with Dracula in the prologue of Symphony is one of the most famous scenes in video games, I could probably recite it word for word even though I’ve never played Symphony once.

"What a horrible night to have a curse"

Simon's name is in the title of that game that the above famous/infamous quote comes from.

Captain N.

He cameos in other games.

Lots of reasons honestly.

 

[osby]

Meanwhile, I noticed I have no newcomers I'm excited to play as except Richter (though I'm planning to mess around with Inklings' paint). I hope next direct will change that.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I've never played Symphony of the Night and didn't know Richter was in it until his reveal. All I ever see people talk about for SotN is Alucard.

The only Castlevania games I've played are I-IV, so I only recognised Richter as the character from Rondo of Blood screenshots.

Alucard is the protagonist and player character, but there’s a brief prologue where you fight Dracula as Richter to recap Rondo Of Blood. The pre-fight conversation is just... glorious. This was about the time the original Resident Evil came out, and video game dialogue/ voice acting was in its infancy as an art.artform

 

[Zinith]

Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night are considered the cream of the crop of the Castlevania series and that's why I prefer Richter, but that doesn't mean he gets priority over Simon

 

[Deleted member]

If we are getting an announcement for a Friday Direct (Thursday for the US) it would typically be in about 2 hours.

Alright, cool, that's not too much longer then. Hopefully, if it does have Smash info, we'll get our Pokemon rep. If there is no Smash info included, I'll probably stay off the boards until October. Things may get feral here.

 

[WaxPython]

A server would give you more lag. You’re adding an extra process for the data to deal with.

P2p means you’re being connected directly to your opponents system.

Again not really much else nintendo could do except start directly denying players the ability to get online if their connection isn’t good enough.

Lmao did you really just say dedicated servers will give us more lag than p2p and there's nothing Nintendo can do?

 

[Pyra]

The man has no limits, but the sky.

Can't tell if that's a pun based on his company name but 10/10 anyway.

Inspirational.

 

[Over9000BPM]

"What a horrible night to have a curse"

Simon's name is in the title of that game that the above famous/infamous quote comes from.

Captain N.

He cameos in other games.

Lots of reasons honestly.

Well, fair enough. I’m still surprised though, and Richter will always be “my” Belmont.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

That's also plausible, but I feel like he could alternatively be an alternative costume for Snake. An Echo though isn't out of the question.

Big Boss might be the easiest echo to make...

besides Ms. Pac Man.

 

[Deleted member]

I've never heard of Richter, but I had heard of his "You don't belong in this world...." line, funnily enough.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Alright, cool, that's not too much longer then. Hopefully, if it does have Smash info, we'll get our Pokemon rep. If there is no Smash info included, I'll probably stay off the boards until October. Things may get feral here.

I’m definitely sticking around if that happens, I want to watch the world burn

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I always thought Final Destination was inferior to Battlefield for competitive games, a completely flat plain heavily favours projectile users/zoners. Unless of course I’m missing something I don’t understand why FD was the one that caught on.

Final Destination being THE competitive stage is a meme, in reality it's probably the least often struck to stage for game 1 and possibly the most frequently banned stage during counterpicking (I remember some data back in Brawl showed it was, and my own experience shows it's not much different still). In Melee Battlefield tends to be the "default" competitive stage, while with Smash 4 it's Smashville (despite how much I dislike that and disagree with the notion that SV is an exceptionally balanced stage).

 

[Over9000BPM]

Final Destination being THE competitive stage is a meme, in reality it's probably the most frequently struck starter stage in game 1 stage striking and possibly the most frequently banned stage during counterpicking (I remember some data back in Brawl showed it was, and my own experience shows it's not much different still). In Melee Battlefield tends to be the "default" competitive stage, while with Smash 4 it's Smashville (despite how much I dislike that and disagree with the notion that SV is a balanced stage).

As do I, the platforms move. Even if they have a set pattern (I don’t recall if they do or not) it could still unfairly turn the tide against a superior player if the right things happen at the right time.

 

[Pyra]

I’m definitely sticking around if that happens, I want to watch the world burn

Same. Well, we could even make a game out of the salt.

But I think it's unlikely that the direct will not have Smash information.
It's a real possibility, for sure, but an unlikely one, I think.

I think at the very least we will get info on WHEN Smash info will happen, if not in this direct.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Here’s something to discuss while we whittle away the time. How do you expect the stage hazards to work for stages that typically stage hazard heavy? Like F-Zero? Big Blue is just one big stage hazard masquerading as a stage. How about other stages like Palutena’s Temple or Spirit Train?

Big Boss might be the easiest echo to make...

besides Ms. Pac Man.

Or Dark Samus Echo that she spawns during her boss fights.

 

[Radical Bones]

Since Brawl, I've been on the anti-too-many-third-parties in Smash mindset and I just realised my character wish list is:

Banjo-Kazooie
Tails
Eggman
Shadow

I mean, there are others but I can't complain about there being too many third parties if I'm asking for more.

To be honest though, Banjo is a pipe dream and I believe out of all the third parties Sonic deserves multiple reps due to their long standing relationship. Just me though.

 

[Pazzo.]

I think slight positional advantage is alright. If the platforms transformed into a giant monster that took swipes at you, then that'd be iffy for competitive.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Same. Well, we could even make a game out of the salt.

But I think it's unlikely that the direct will not have Smash information.
It's a real possibility, for sure, but an unlikely one, I think.

I think at the very least we will get info on WHEN Smash info will happen, if not in this direct.

I kinda want everyone to share in the misery I feel when I see screenshots of Samus in ultimate, and then play Samus Returns or look at my amiibos

 

[Loz18-Echo]

To be honest though, Banjo is a pipe dream and I believe out of all the third parties Sonic deserves multiple reps due to their long standing relationship. Just me though.

I'm fine if the rep is a Echo but if it's a unique newcomer i'll be honest i will be mad

 

[Pazzo.]

Here’s something to discuss while we whittle away the time. How do you expect the stage hazards to work for stages that typically stage hazard heavy? Like F-Zero? Big Blue is just one big stage hazard masquerading as a stage. How about other stages like Palutena’s Temple or Spirit Train?

Spirit Tracks will get rid of the extra trains and exploding trains. I could see a lot of Metroid stages just stop the lava, and stages like Yoshi's Island actually get rid of the clouds/ghosts.

 

[Pyra]

I kinda want everyone to share in the misery I feel when I see screenshots of Samus in ultimate, and then play Samus Returns or look at my amiibos

I don't think I could ever feel that kind of misery because it is an incredible non-issue to me (sorry), and there's not much Soccerguy could do to make me groan or anything at this point so I'm just along for the ride.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Since Brawl, I've been on the anti-too-many-third-parties in Smash mindset and I just realised my character wish list is:

Banjo-Kazooie
Tails
Eggman
Shadow

I mean, there are others but I can't complain about there being too many third parties if I'm asking for more.

To be honest though, Banjo is a pipe dream and I believe out of all the third parties Sonic deserves multiple reps due to their long standing relationship. Just me though.

In my mind Banjo and Sonic barely qualify as third parties. Like I know technically they are, but they feel like Nintendo characters in spirit.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I kinda want everyone to share in the misery I feel when I see screenshots of Samus in ultimate, and then play Samus Returns or look at my amiibos

Oh I get that feeling every time I look at my high school football photos when I was young and thought I was invincible and then I look at my flabby man-booby balding self in the mirror.

 

[Deleted member]

Since Brawl, I've been on the anti-too-many-third-parties in Smash mindset and I just realised my character wish list is:

Banjo-Kazooie
Tails
Eggman
Shadow

I mean, there are others but I can't complain about there being too many third parties if I'm asking for more.

To be honest though, Banjo is a pipe dream and I believe out of all the third parties Sonic deserves multiple reps due to their long standing relationship. Just me though.

Even though Sonic appears on all systems, he feels like a Nintendo character now. Maybe its because he has more exclusives on Nintendo (though even that may be false), but he just feels Nintendo, so even though he is 3rd Party, it feels kinda weird to consider him as such.

 

[Pyra]

Oh I get that feeling every time I look at my high football photos and then I look at my flabby man-booby balding self in the mirror.

Bad Box Art Venus of the Desert Bloom?

In my mind Banjo and Sonic barely qualify as third parties. Like I know technically they are, but they feel like Nintendo characters in spirit.

Honestly I can see that
In my heart Banjo's a Nintendo character, but that's definitely not how it works in reality haha.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Spirit Tracks will get rid of the extra trains and exploding trains. I could see a lot of Metroid stages just stop the lava, and stages like Yoshi's Island actually get rid of the clouds/ghosts.

But doesn’t touching the tracks drag you off the screen to certain doom? How will stage hazards negate that unless they go the Battlefield route.

Which doesn’t seem very logical since we could do battlefield or FD mode.

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

Meanwhile, I noticed I have no newcomers I'm excited to play as

Same.

except Richter.

Ope, nevermind.

I mean, I'm over the moon to have Young Link back, and Zelda's new look is super cute, and I've always wanted Daisy, but for me at least, these newcomers have all been lackluster.

C'mon, Sakurai. Give me Skull Kid, or Dixie Kong, or Banjo and Kazooie.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I think slight positional advantage is alright. If the platforms transformed into a giant monster that took swipes at you, then that'd be iffy for competitive.

Yeah, I can see that Smashville is a grey area, especially if the platforms have a set pattern, but I still think Battlefield is superior.

 

[T-Hell]

90 minutes until reannouncement presumably. If nothing comes today I think people will legit get angry.

 

[Koopaul]

So in regard to Echo fighters and Chrom. It seems that echo fighters can be a lot more different than most people thought. I'm going to assume that there is no real standard or rule for what makes an Echo fighter and it's merely whoever Sakurai decided that was similar enough to their cointerpart to be called that. And obviously he must think Chrom still falls under that category while Dr. Mario does not.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Bad Box Art Venus of the Desert Bloom?


Honestly I can see that
In my heart Banjo's a Nintendo character, but that's definitely not how it works in reality haha.

Does Banjo even have a game widely considered “good” that isn’t on the N64?

 

[Pyra]

But doesn’t touching the tracks drag you off the screen to certain doom? How will stage hazards negate that unless they go the Battlefield route.

Which doesn’t seem very logical since we could do battlefield or FD mode.

I get the feeling that the hazard toggle isn't "comprehensive" in the sense that stages like that, where you get damaged by the terrain because the fighting platform is implied to be moving quickly or something, probably won't have that turned off.
I don't think turning hazards off will park the train, I mean.

90 minutes until reannouncement presumably. If nothing comes today I think people will legit get angry.

Why? Just relax. It's not really a big enough deal to get angry about lol.
Is it cause everyone's putting their eggs in the Thursday basket? While it's likely, it's never confirmed and everyone's going off of "signs" that they think point to it. Fair enough, but not really something to be shocked about or mad about if it doesn't happen I think.

I want the date as much as the next guy but I mean this is not something that is worth getting actually angry about lmao

 

[Deleted member]

90 minutes until reannouncement presumably. If nothing comes today I think people will legit get angry.

If nothing comes today, what are the chances they decide to merge it with a Smash focused direct for later in the month as an hour-long direct instead of the traditional 30 min one?

 

[Michele]

90 minutes until reannouncement presumably. If nothing comes today I think people will legit get angry.

Don't forget that midnight and 1 AM are also the most common times too.

Ok, I've had enough of these rumors. Today, it's all or nothing in the latest Direct Week!

 

[Pyra]

Does Banjo even have a game widely considered “good” that isn’t on the N64?

Not particularly. Despite the fact that I'm willing to give Nuts and Bolts a better first impression than most people would, I think it doesn't even come into the realm of ... well... fun and charm as Kazooie and Tooie had.

However, honorable mention is that Rare Replay Banjo Kazooie is the superior version, ironically, because they took out some of the gameplay limitations that were in place due to memory limitations when they were programming the game.