Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Fenriraga]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash. Doesn't have to be a player character, can be a Gym Leader or even a nameless NPC.

 

[Pyra]

Why is it cheap? So In smash we admit tier exist some fighters are better than others.

Is it cheap if people play as tip tiers and bit bottom tiers because they want to win as much as possible?

Is it being cheap when you get what you want out of a game?

But there is a Pokemon tier list.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Because the competitive scene becomes trash when you don't balance things out.

that's why this year's SSB4 evo was so boring to watch... nothing but Bayo

 

[WaxPython]

like being unable to challenge a gym unless you have a Pokemon with a typing stronger than theirs

Is this seriously a thing? They have officially crossed the point of no return for me. Gen 7 was the last Pokemon game I will buy.

 

[Potato_]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash.

SILVER. Just freaking Silver.

 

[staindgrey]

The issue with Pokemon's difficulty is that the franchise REFUSES to add difficulty options because it was done poorly in Black and White 2, where they have to be unlocked by either beating the main game or linking with a player who already unlocked them, and the difficulty modes were version exclusive too. The best way to make a Pokemon game more challenging is by letting us choose to skip tutorials and letting us have an optional difficulty option that raises enemy trainer levels and boosts their AI and maybe even give them some extra items

I've no idea why they haven't done this already. Seems like the best way to go.

 

[Pyra]

Is this seriously a thing? They have officially crossed the point of no return for me. Gen 7 was the last Pokemon game I will buy.

I'd wait until a game that isn't Gen I version 40

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Why is it cheap? So In smash we admit tier exist some fighters are better than others.

Is it cheap if people play as tip tiers and bit bottom tiers because they want to win as much as possible?

Is it being cheap when you get what you want out of a game?

is it really that hard to understand players and developers strive for game balance so communities won't be pigeon holed into playing only a certain few characters if they want to win?

 

[---]

Before I go to bed, I'm just going to go ahead and guess that we'll see the Direct moved to Thursday.

Yeah, Kirby's Adventure was a breeze... until I got to the final boss. Still haven't beaten it to this day...

If you stand on the far left/right side of the screen, most of Nightmare's attacks can't hit you.

Kirby's Adventure is probably my 8 year old nephew's favorite game as Mario/Sonic is too hard. He's not very coordinated, but he's made it to World 3 mostly by himself (Meta Knights sub-boss trips him up).

 

[RandomAce]

I’m confused on why you guys are getting worked up about how easy Let’s Go Pikachu and Eevee.

The director stated it himself, those games are for CASUALS. It’s supposed to be easy for people who only played Pokémon Go, it’s not supposed to be aimed at you.

You know what he also stated, the Pokémon 2019 game is for fans that are more HARDCORE. Those are the games you guys are anticipating for since E3 2017, and those are the games that you should be more concerned for the difficulty.

 

[Ignoritus]

Oh, the SS Anne. You mean the one that's still docked so you can go back to the Pokecenter at any time? And, if memory serves correct, also has a lady in one of the cabins who will heal your pokemon for you?

Even if you stumble into Blue unprepared, there's really no consequence for fainting and waking up in the Pokemon center. None of the trainers you beat on the SS Anne will challenge you again, which means you can waltz on up to Blue again with your pokemon fully healed. This is why I don't consider rivals healing your pokemon a "difficulty" thing, but just a quality of life thing.

To be fair, this fails to consider that first battle and just assumes that because you were weak and battered you always *lost* that first battle. I think the point most people make when they discuss the change in approach to rival battles is that oftentimes they were able to struggle and power through that first surprise encounter, which made for a much more challenge and adrenaline pumping battle. Had they failed they would have been healed and been prepared the second time as you mentioned. Nowadays you are just forcefully healed before the battle to pretty much assure that those adrenaline pumping grand finales to a difficult section never happen.

The old design created a situation where you were given a tense obstacle to overcome and if you failed it was loosened up a bit. The new design prevents you from ever facing a difficult obstacle. That's pretty much the gripe people have with Pokemon difficulty nowadays in general: you're not even really given the option to be challenged without self-imposing a ton of arbitrary rules. The one time they actually introduced a higher difficulty mode it was a complete pain to access and it was gone by the next game on. That's also why I imagine people got so pissed at the whole "gym entry restrictions" thing with Let's Go. It's not actually reducing the gameplay difficulty at all, it's literally just placing an arbitrary restriction on the player that tries to force them to do things the easy way.

 

[Arcadenik]

What would be an optimal difficulty curve in Pokémon games? Maybe like this?

1st gym = Level 10
2nd gym = Level 20
3rd gym = Level 30
4th gym = Level 40
5th gym = Level 50
6th gym = Level 60
7th gym = Level 70
8th gym = Level 80
Elite Four = Level 90
Champion = Level 100

 

[Pakky]

that's why this year's SSB4 evo was so boring to watch... nothing but Bayo

Just like MVC3 with Dante :/

And Dragon ball with Bardock :/ (Duct tape that please)

I love her but she needs some fixing otherwise WILL get dunked Maybe not (cuz he looks kinda crazy)

 

[CJ Falcon]

Melee is an unbalanced game but hundreds of thousands of people still get hype for it even after all these years. Don't know what you guys are talking about lmao

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash.

I know you said I can't pick the Pokémon they have, but come on, if I say "Cynthia", you know Garchomp isn't debatable. :V

Though I don't pick Cynthia.
I pick....

 

[WaxPython]

Granted, if Dragons and Psychics were by the far the most powerful, and you used them on your team, it would make the game pretty easy then, yea?

Assuming they are easy to get which they're not at least back in gen 1. It was very hard to get a Dragonite I feel I should be rewarded with a powerful Pokemon. And the opposing trainers can use those types too so it's fair play.

 

[Potato_]

I’m confused on why you guys are getting worked up about how easy Let’s Go Pikachu and Eevee.

The director stated it himself, the games are for CASUALS. It’s supposed to be easy for people who only played Pokémon Go, it’s not supposed to be aimed at you.

You know what he also stated, the Pokémon 2019 game is for fans that are more HARDCORE. Those are the games you guys are anticipating for since E3 2017, and those are the games that you should be more concerned for the difficulty.

Basically this. It's blatant nostalgia-pandering sure, but they've made it clear that the original Pokemon style is still here to stay. For that reason I'll pick up Let's Go for some fun while waiting for next gen.

Plus I really missed the following pokemon mechanic.

 

[UltimateWario]

I’m sure this has been considered but I’m wondering if Isaac was meant to be revealed in the Direct and he caused an earthquake in his trailer (or they’re prominent in his moveset) and this has put Nintendo in a difficult situation.

The Direct is quickly becoming obsolete for anything that isn’t directly 1st Party and the longer Nintendo waits the worse this is going to get. However I could see this extended delay being caused by the unfortunate correlation between Isaac and earthquakes thus requiring some extensive rescheduling and resulting in this extended delay and information drought.

Food for thought.

 

[staindgrey]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash.

Hilda or Gold. Those have always been my favorite trainer designs.

I’m sure this has been considered but I’m wondering if Isaac was meant to be revealed in the Direct and he caused an earthquake in his trailer (or they’re prominent in his moveset) and this has put Nintendo in a difficult situation.

No. This has been discussed at length before.

 

[Kirbeh]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash.

Either Lucas/Dawn or Hilbert/Hilda. I started with Gen 4 so there's some nostalgia bias there, and the Gen 5 trainers because I like their designs the best.

Aside from the actual protagonists, Cynthia is the first that comes to mind followed by other likely common picks like Brock, Misty, N, etc.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Just like MVC3 with Dante :/

And Dragon ball with Bardock :/ (Duct tape that please)

I love her but she needs some fixing otherwise WILL get dunked Maybe not (cuz he looks kinda crazy)

This is a bit of a false equivalency as both those games were team fighters so character diversity had some wiggle room

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash.

Cynthia, the Gen 3 trainers or then Gen 4 trainers would be cool. Cynthia has a full team to work with and the trainers have the starters and evolutionary lines to work so it'd be pretty fun to see

 

[WaxPython]

To be fair, this fails to consider that first battle and just assumes that because you were weak and battered you always *lost* that first battle. I think the point most people make when they discuss the change in approach to rival battles is that oftentimes they were able to struggle and power through that first surprise encounter, which made for a much more challenge and adrenaline pumping battle. Had they failed they would have been healed and been prepared the second time as you mentioned. Nowadays you are just forcefully healed before the battle to pretty much assure that those adrenaline pumping grand finales to a difficult section never happen.

The old design created a situation where you were given a tense obstacle to overcome and if you failed it was loosened up a bit. The new design prevents you from ever facing a difficult obstacle. That's pretty much the gripe people have with Pokemon difficulty nowadays in general: you're not even really given the option to be challenged without self-imposing a ton of arbitrary rules. The one time they actually introduced a higher difficulty mode it was a complete pain to access and it was gone by the next game on. That's also why I imagine people got so pissed at the whole "gym entry restrictions" thing with Let's Go. It's not actually reducing the gameplay difficulty at all, it's literally just placing an arbitrary restriction on the player that tries to force them to do things the easy way.

Cheers mate, you summed up in words what I've been trying to say all along. Maybe the games were always easy to beat but the feeling of challenge was there and that was enough. Now it's gone thanks to the handholding.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

What would be an optimal difficulty curve in Pokémon games? Maybe like this?

1st gym = Level 10
2nd gym = Level 20
3rd gym = Level 30
4th gym = Level 40
5th gym = Level 50
6th gym = Level 60
7th gym = Level 70
8th gym = Level 80
Elite Four = Level 90
Champion = Level 100

I think that's too straight forward and leaves little creativity as to how they design the world, plus it'd limit the purpose of post-game content. Honestly, there isn't really an optimal difficulty curve per se, it depends entirely on how they've designed a region, the difficulty curve is one of the last things you finalize in development.

 

[smashkirby]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash. Doesn't have to be a player character, can be a Gym Leader or even a nameless NPC.

Cynthia, for me. Honestly, I feel that if Smash ever adds a Gym Leader as a 'playable character', Cynthia would be it.

 

[Pyra]

Pokemon Let's Go is an intentionally very casual remake of the Gen I games that will pretty much only have Gen I Pokemon in it as well as having compatibility with Pokemon Go.

How anyone could look at that and think that's the general direction the Pokemon main series will go in the future is baffling to me

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash. Doesn't have to be a player character, can be a Gym Leader or even a nameless NPC.

Cynthia would be my vote honestly

 

[Arcadenik]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash. Doesn't have to be a player character, can be a Gym Leader or even a nameless NPC.

Ha! Easy!

Team Rocket from Pokémon Yellow and Pokémon Let's Go.

 

[domriver]

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1039196919954735107

LOL @ all comments.

 

[Pakky]

This is a bit of a false equivalency as both those games were team fighters so character diversity had some wiggle room

True but they still are the best tools in the box which causes problems regardless.

 

[Chrono.]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash.

I'd pick Silver as the next "Pokemon Trainer" type character.

Just call him Pokemon Rival and give him Chikorita, Quilava and Feraligatr.

I know you said I can't choose the Pokemon but imma do it anyway.

 

[WaxPython]

Melee is an unbalanced game but hundreds of thousands of people still get hype for it even after all these years. Don't know what you guys are talking about lmao

Yeah that's also my point, if they what back and patched fox and Falco endlessly melee would not be melee anymore.

Sometimes an unbalanced game is so fun because in the imperfections it has heart and an identity. That identity will be lost if patches keep coming in changing the game endlessly.

 

[link2702]

Even though it wasn’t a 1st Party, ‘‘twas still a major exclusive game for the Switch, and I wouldn’t say Aces wasn’t a huge title (though not as big of a deal as Super Mario Party)

It’s a remake of the original games with elements of Go, still considered a main title (regardless of it being a remake or not). It’s like Fire Emblem where their remakes still count as a main title, only they also count as sequels in a way

Smash Ultimate
Pokémon Let’s Go
Super Paper Mario...and also you said those games aren’t at the level of Mario, yet Aces is a Mario game in itself

And if dlc expansions were to be counted, then you would have the Octo Expansion pack included aswell

Mario =/= mario spin-off game such as the sports games. Pretty sure it’s common knowledge at this point that most people consider the sports/karts/party/spinoffs very clearly separate from the core games such as 64, sunshine, etc.

 

[Enderwoman]

Melee is an unbalanced game but hundreds of thousands of people still get hype for it even after all these years. Don't know what you guys are talking about lmao

melee has a culture of people coming to watch for the players and their diverse playstyles while the other games are watched by casuals so they only care about the surface level elements

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash. Doesn't have to be a player character, can be a Gym Leader or even a nameless NPC.

My boi Guzma
honorable mentions include N and Lusamine

 

[Deleted member]

You people should just do what I do and play Gen 6 and 7 with rotation.

I've played every generation extensively and it's the most fun I've had in Pokemon.

Never been a fan of rotating parties, which is the reason I finished my main party's stories in Octopath befpre doing to others. I just mainly like sticking with one party whenever possible.

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash. Doesn't have to be a player character, can be a Gym Leader or even a nameless NPC.

Either Gold for Totodile/Feraligatr or N as he's my favorite Pokemon character(and he'd definitely have Zoroark so that's a plus)

Hilda

I thought she was a Zelda echo

 

[DarkFalcon]

Pokemon games have never been that hard, but ever since Gen 6 they have intentionally made the games easier. There was even an interview where the director admitted this. Something about the day and age we live in and if it's too hard kids will go back to their smartphones or some bull**** like that.

I don't need a super hard Pokemon game. I just want a challenging game. Platinum did a good job. The wrong way to make things harder is to just give enemy Pokemon boosts in all stats to immediately give you a disadvantage like the gen 7 games did. That's not what people mean when they want a more challenging game.

 

[JayPercent]

Is this seriously a thing? They have officially crossed the point of no return for me. Gen 7 was the last Pokemon game I will buy.

Not EXACTLY. You just have to show that you have 1-2 pokemon with types that could beat the gym leader. Since you can swap pokemon at any given time, out of battle, you get to Pewter city gym, you show an Oddish to the guy at the entrance and you're free to kick Brock with any pokemon you want. At least according to what I read yesterday. But still, I agree that it will be that much tedious.

 

[Pyra]

melee has a culture of people coming to watch for the players and their diverse playstyles while the other games are watched by casuals so they only care about the surface level elements

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Melee

etc. etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My boi Guzma
honorable mentions include N and Lusamine

****, how could I forget Guzma? You could even add Golisopod there so that's perfect

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Here's a discussion topic. Rather than choosing a Pokemon, who would you pick as the next Pokemon Trainer along side Red and Green/Leaf? Again, just the trainer, not the Pokemon they have.

Basically, who is your favorite trainer you'd like to 'play' as in Smash. Doesn't have to be a player character, can be a Gym Leader or even a nameless NPC.

May or Kris, no contest. My most fave Pokegirls would be such a joy to be in this insanity.

But TBQH... I'd love it if we got all the trainers repping each Gen to join the fray.

I also remember wanting to explore Iris with her Dragon PKMN but apparently she's hated to hell in West.

The main reason why I went there is because I once wrote some fanfics with her and Pit due enjoying the dynamic that came from just exploring them in cracky fashion.