Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

If we're talking about Alax, I want to bring up something that really annoyed me.
He claims that he predicted Ridley was going to be in the game on Twitter....
....but in his initial roster video, he made the prediction that Ridley would be a playable boss in a special mode where someone plays as a boss while the other person plays as a normal character.....
.....yet still takes credit for predicting him despite taking a different form from his original prediction(a playable character instead of a playable boss in a special mode).
I still really enjoy Alax's content, but that always bugged me.

At this point I'm not surprised by anything he does. Still making "SANS IS NESS" memes in the year of twenty-eighteen?
AND PEOPLE SAY THAT SCOTT WOULD BE ALAX'S ECHO FIGHTER???

 

[Chrono.]

I don't care who the **** you are, I will support Dark Pit having a unique moveset until he dies.

Dark Samus? Shadow? Ganondorf? Boy have you played Kid Icarus Uprising? There are so many unexplored items to use that can just fit him.
View attachment 162665View attachment 162668View attachment 162667

I'm actually a little miffed that the Staff was made into an item (they're KI weapons) because it pretty much eradicates any chance that he could a chance like that in the future.

It's pretty sad he went from bland clone to even blander clone now that we got dudes like Chrom and Dark Samus looking all fancy and ****.

I love Dark Pit but dang, dude got the shaft.

 

[tecmo]

Take out one echo fighter, probably even two, you still don't have a unique fighter because they take less time than a unique fighter.
I don't see your point.

True but even not including the echo fighters that were in sm4sh we already have 4 and likely at least one more on the way. Do you really think that if they axed all the new echoes they wouldn’t have had time to make at least one more unique fighter?

 

[LetterO]

Who are everyone's current top 3 most wanted characters?

Mine are

1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Black Shadow
3. Medusa

Excluding popular picks, I'd say

1. Chorus Kids
2. Phoenix Wright
3. 9-Volt (18-Volt as a possible semi clone/part of final smash)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Food for thought, if Melee had the same labelling of Clones as Echos, there'd only be 20 characters with 19 CSS slots.

 

[Will]

True but even not including the echo fighters that were in sm4sh we already have 4 and likely at least one more on the way. Do you really think that if they axed all the new echoes they wouldn’t have had time to make at least one more unique fighter?

No, because most of these are preplanned characters, I'd argue most of the Echoes presented were already alongside unique characters in the development team. Not that they were meant to be Echoes, but more-so "unique if we have the time" placeholders with a "echo if time not met". That's just my theory though. You'd probably need to cut out three echoes in order to make a unique character, because you have to go through the effort of making the skeleton and shaping all of the moves, while the Echoes are usually make a model, and then make sure that it doesn't look wonky when you plaster the same moves on it.

 

[T-Hell]

Who are everyone's current top 3 most wanted characters?

Mine are

1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Black Shadow
3. Medusa

I'd say..

1- Chibi-Robo
2- Banjo & Kazooei
3- Porky Minch

 

[Meritocracy]

I guarantee you Alax will find a way to say that Monika from Doki Doki Literature Club is more unique and deserving than Bandana Waddle Dee.

...

The sad part is that this isn't even a joke, because he'd no doubt do it.

*coughs politely* Is there anything wrong with supporting Monika?
Real talk, Monika MIGHT be more unique, but she is NOT more deserving than Waddle Dee, just to clear that up

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Has anyone in this thread pre-ordered the game yet? Are you guys waiting for the Limited Edition to arrive to your countries?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?
EDIT: I forgot someone. I think you know who it is.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

Man nintendo must have hired the Mario bro's plumbing services to keep the pipes from leaking

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Who are everyone's current top 3 most wanted characters?

Mine are

1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Black Shadow
3. Medusa

1. Amaterasu
2. Travis Touchdown
3. A Battletoad

Such a thirst for 3rd parties... WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
(I expect none of these to ever make the cut, but with my previous #1 already in I don't mind)

 

[Guynamednelson]

True but even not including the echo fighters that were in sm4sh we already have 4 and likely at least one more on the way. Do you really think that if they axed all the new echoes they wouldn’t have had time to make at least one more unique fighter?

At the same time, think about Chrom. He was cut from Smash 4 because he wouldn't be as unique as Robin, a reason that was invalidated by Lucina being a separate character instead of a Marth costume, so they might as well have made him playable.

 

[Deleted member]

Top 3?
-Protector
-Wonder-Red
-Crono
In no particular order.

True but even not including the echo fighters that were in sm4sh we already have 4 and likely at least one more on the way. Do you really think that if they axed all the new echoes they wouldn’t have had time to make at least one more unique fighter?

You guys really underestimate how long new animations and balancing takes, right?

We know for a fact that: 6 Melee clones=1 King Dedede
Echoes take much less work than a Melee clone and Melee didn't worry abiut balancing newcomers so that's a lot of time to save. My bet would be on 8 Echoes=1 Unique Fighter considering what we know

 

[Will]

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

View attachment 162672

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?

listen man just because i said yugi was more likely than goku doesnt mean i advocated for him

 

[IGuessItsOver]

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

View attachment 162672

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?

>Goku
>Bubsy
>Yugi
>Kratos
>MICKEY MOUSE

 

[Shroob]

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

View attachment 162672

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?

"Trash it, it's missing Ken."

 

[CJ Falcon]

Has anyone in this thread pre-ordered the game yet? Are you guys waiting for the Limited Edition to arrive to your countries?

I preordered because of the Amazon Prime discount. Couldn't care less about the limited edition.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

View attachment 162672

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?

You absolute madman! You’ve messed with the natural ORDER!

 

[Sharkarat]

Yes we can. They may take less dev time, but they still take time to make. Echo fighters don’t just pop into existence they have to be made and that still takes time and resources that could be used to make a unique fighter. I’m not saying every echo could be replaced with a unique fighter. But it is reasonable to believe that all the echo fighters could be replaced with one or maybe two extra completely unique fighters, which imo would have been better.

6 Melee clone was less work than one unique character. Based on that you would cut all echoes (including Dark Pit & Lucina) for maybe one unique.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I generally like PushDustIn and hes usually really good at debunking leaks but these are the same arguments repeated, and they all are pretty week.

1. the lighting is off on the one image.

its an actual photograph, theres no standard for the lighting sayng it must match perfectly with out last few photographs and it literally could be one that was taken at a different day than our first few pics or something and have slightly changed lighting and the picture itself is a blurry shot of a computer screen so i dont think you can use that at all to debunk this.

2. the symbol isn't good.

smash has tons of odd decisions and i agree its a bad symbol but that doesnt make it fake in the least that is total opinion. the issue is just that the music note is negative space, thats it, again its an odd choice but doesnt make it fake.

3.it was posted on 4chan yet its a japanese leak.

we've had real leaks on 4chan before and yes its odd a japanese image would wind up on 4chan... BUT guess where akamai the host webserver for the smash website is located? cambridge massachusetts. guess where these images are supposedly taken from? the akamai host server. A Japanese website is being hosted on an american server (not something many people knew about before these came up and people looked into it) so an american with access to that server leaking stuff on an english speaking western website (4chan) actually makes perfect sense.

I couldnt be more indfferent about getting karate joe or not in smash but i seriously feel the "debunking" here is grasping at straws.

May I get a link to the leak? I missed it. Or if you’ve already made a video on it, I can watch that. Whatever’s clever.

 

[Chrono.]

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

View attachment 162672

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?

You may not like it, but this is peak performance.

 

[Deleted member]

*coughs politely* Is there anything wrong with supporting Monika?
Real talk, Monika MIGHT be more unique, but she is NOT more deserving than Waddle Dee, just to clear that up

Now see, this is a good Monika fan I can vibe with.

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

View attachment 162672

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?

First, points for you adding in Rex & Pyra, but I'm gonna have to subtract them for no Reyn.
BACK TO THE WORKSHOP, BOY.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

View attachment 162672

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?

Looks cool but it doesn't have Shadow and saying we didn't speculate him would be a lie.
Wait, hold on...
>No Gothitelle
The **** dude 0/10

 

[Kuon]

Who are everyone's current top 3 most wanted characters?

Mine are

1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Black Shadow
3. Medusa

Realistic top three:
1. Isabelle (as a unique fighter)
2. Shantae
3. Risky Boots (as an echo of Shantae)

Never going to happen top three:
1. Miyabi (Senran Kagura)
2. Homura (Senran Kagura)
3. Rottytops (as an echo of Shantae)

 

[Arcadenik]

Who are everyone's current top 3 most wanted characters?

Mine are

1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Black Shadow
3. Medusa

Unrealistic
1. Meowth / Team Rocket (Meowth, Arbok, Weezing)
2. Toad / Captain Toad
3. Captain N

Realistic
1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Dixie Kong
3. Skull Kid

 

[Knight Dude]

You know what funny about a year ago people hated clones in the smashboards but now that they are called echo fighters now everyone wants more of them

I think the context of what this game is about also helps, not just the name change.

Being directly told we're not getting as much as usual right off the bat softens the blow. So does every character returning, so no "slot stealing". And some popular characters fit the role well enough, even if they could be different on paper. Like Dark Samus and Chrom.

Since they aren't counted towards the number count in the same way, some fans are more open to them this time around. Not to mention we got Ridley, K.Rool and Simon Belmont. It's hard not to be content with what he have already.

Sure, since the game isn't out yet, there's bound to be a bit more, so that's pretty cool. But if the game released now with only what we saw in terms of roster and stages, that'd be fine with me.

 

[tecmo]

No, because most of these are preplanned characters, I'd argue most of the Echoes presented were already alongside unique characters in the development team. Not that they were meant to be Echoes, but more-so "unique if we have the time" placeholders with a "echo if time not met". That's just my theory though. You'd probably need to cut out three echoes in order to make a unique character, because you have to go through the effort of making the skeleton and shaping all of the moves, while the Echoes are usually make a model, and then make sure that it doesn't look wonky when you plaster the same moves on it.

I guess their was a slight misunderstanding then because in my original post I had already said that even if we only got one unique fighter from axing every echo fighter I would have preferred that . The fact that you have the option to make the echo appear as a skin for the character their based on when on the CSS says a lot TBH

 

[Majora's Visage]

At this point I'm not surprised by anything he does. Still making "SANS IS NESS" memes in the year of twenty-eighteen?
AND PEOPLE SAY THAT SCOTT WOULD BE ALAX'S ECHO FIGHTER???

View attachment 162670

Dude we need to make you into a meme here

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Realistic top three:
1. Isabelle (as a unique fighter)
2. Shantae
3. Risky Boots (as an echo of Shantae)

You are a fellow with a delicate taste.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Now see, this is a good Monika fan I can vibe with.



First, points for you adding in Rex & Pyra, but I'm gonna have to subtract them for no Reyn.
BACK TO THE WORKSHOP, BOY.

Do you want an actual meme roster?

Okay. It'll be coming. Real soon.

 

[Kuon]

You are a fellow with a delicate taste.

Thanks! I think Risky Boots could work as an echo if they use Shantae's moveset from Pirate's Curse

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Thanks! I think Risky Boots could work as an echo if they use Shantae's moveset from Pirate's Curse

I agree, Pirate's Curse Shantae has the best moveset potential, and for her final smash she could call out a bombing on the stage.

 

[Will]

I guess their was a slight misunderstanding then because in my original post I had already said that even if we only got one unique fighter from axing every echo fighter I would have preferred that . The fact that you have the option to make the echo appear as a skin for the character their based on when on the CSS says a lot TBH

Agree to disagree, because reading that made my brain cells commit reset character.
You do realize that having the gratitude of playing these characters, even if it's similar to another, makes people happy? Even if they're disappointed that they're not unique, they can at least play them. Some people who are so ignorant that they won't like a game because a character wasn't the way they wanted is pretty selfish, let alone willing to axe seven others for the sake of one other random character when DLC is guaranteed.

 

[Domino11332]

Who are everyone's current top 3 most wanted characters?

Mine are

1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Black Shadow
3. Medusa

1. Karate Joe
2. Bandana Dee
3. Elma

 

[Arcanir]

Top 3?
-Protector
-Wonder-Red
-Crono
In no particular order.

You guys really underestimate how long new animations and balancing takes, right?

We know for a fact that: 6 Melee clones=1 King Dedede
Echoes take much less work than a Melee clone and Melee didn't worry abiut balancing newcomers so that's a lot of time to save. My bet would be on 8 Echoes=1 Unique Fighter considering what we know

Actually according to Sakurai, even taking out the six Melee clones wouldn't amount to one unique newcomer.

But, I want to stress that even if we had cut the clone characters, he still wouldn’t have gotten in.

Even if we had cut the characters that were in the previous game (Jigglypuff, Luigi), he still wouldn’t have gotten in.

The amount of work it takes to cut a fully-developed character doesn’t equal the amount of work it takes to create a new one from scratch, so it still would have been impossible.

I would have needed to get rid of the Fire Emblem duo (Marth and Roy) or Mewtwo in order for Wario to get in.

I was also concerned that there were too many characters from the Mario series, so with that in mind, Wario had too many factors working against him.

So even working under the assumption that one Echo=one Melee clone, we still wouldn't get a unique newcomer out of cutting all of them.

 

[Kuon]

I agree, Pirate's Curse Shantae has the best moveset potential, and for her final smash she could call out a bombing on the stage.

I think so too. I think the transformations would be too slow to be used as a moveset. It'd be different if each transformation had its own moveset, but if it were just for one attack it'd take too long to transform into the animal and then transform again

 

[Moydow]

Realistic top 3:
- Phoenix Wright
- Miles Edgeworth as an echo
- Celica

Unrealistic top 3:
- The entire playable cast of the Fire Emblem series
- An F-Zero character that spawns a new game in the series
- Goku, not because I want him, but just because I want to witness the immense quantities of salt he would generate

 

[Momotsuki]

Who are everyone's current top 3 most wanted characters?

Number 3: Midbus (Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story)
Number 2: Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby Super Star)
Number 1: Isabelle (Animal Crossing: New Leaf)
​

 

[Mc.Rad]

I'm gonna derail the discussion, but I made a roster based off of all of our speculation throughout the entire thread. I'd like to know what you all would think about this roster if it were the actual roster for Ultimate.

Spoiler: Dear God what have I done

View attachment 162673

Why did I do it? I think the better question is why didn't I do it?
EDIT: I forgot someone. I think you know who it is.

You Absolutely know who it is. You coward