Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Originality]

The game PERMANENTLY taints your save file locking you away from the true golden ending if you do the Genocide run.
The game punishes you for playing the game. If they didn't want people to play Genocide, it shouldn't even be a thing.

The theme I get from Genocide run is that your actions have consequences, it had to be an option for that message to go through.
For the record, I did Genocide before I did Pacifist

 

[MBRedboy31]

The reveal is the big aspect though. The trailer is a nice confirmation, but it's the reveal that people really care about.

So... nobody actually cares about the gameplay in video games, we just watch for reveals and that’s it?

 

[Iridium]

Iridium

You also catch one of the ACTUAL leaks that I'm interested in?

Oh, I was at school for a bit. What is it?

 

[Pakky]

More interesting question. Is which villains for any Nintendo franchise?

Super Mario Bros.: King Boo
The Legend of Zelda: Skull Kid
Kirby: Dark Meta Knight, Magolor, Marx, Nightmare
EarthBound: Giygas (Physical Form), Porky Minch
F-Zero: Black Shadow, Deathborn
Fire Emblem: Black Knight
Kid Icarus: Hades, Magnus, Medusa, Phosphora, Viridi

I don't know if

counts a villain or rival per say.

 

[Over9000BPM]

So... nobody actually cares about the gameplay in video games, we just watch for reveals and that’s it?

Yes.

(Would explain a lot about Smash 4, actually)

 

[Chrono.]

Yo, any new developments in the last 5 hours or so?

 

[staindgrey]

There's a difference between a good ending and a Golden Ending.
A Golden Ending is like Revelation in Fates, where no main characters die(except Izana but meh) and everyone gets a happy ending. There's no price to be paid on them despite the other two routes being all about making hard choices. Revelation is a cop out because of that.
Undertale's Pacifist Route has literally everyone live and get their happy ending and the game makes it so that it's the only "right" way to play it by condemning you for playing any other way. Pacifist Route goes against the very concept of a game of choices.

From what you're telling me, it seems like you actually have to play the game properly to get Mass Effect's best ending, and it's mostly about saving your own party than toher characters which would be no different in concept from playing a FE game without letting any of your units die.

Not necessarily. I do understand the differences between FE:F Revelation and ME2-- though I've never played Undertale, so I can't comment on that-- but ME2's suicide mission isn't as simple as keeping every party member alive in Fire Emblem.

There are specific choices that dictate the ending alongside typical gameplay. For instance, when you do Zaeed's companion mission, you have a choice between saving a building full of innocent people and helping Zaeed chase down his target. Saving people obviously is the "right" decision, but if you do so, you'll piss off Zaeed and his likelihood of dying in the suicide mission skyrockets. If you have a ton of paragon or renegade points for previous decisions, however, you can persuade him into saving the people in the building, but that dialog option only appears if you've earned it.

This happens for multiple characters in the game. Jack and Miranda nearly kill each other unless you intervene, then you have to go through multiple dialog options to "side" with one of them or force them to cooperate, all of which have different outcomes resulting in one or both of them becoming a likely casualty in the suicide mission. Garrus can be a likely casualty due to a decision you made in the last game. Thane can be a likely casualty for failing to reunite him with his son. And when your crew is abducted, if you don't give chase right then, they're all going to die. But if you're not ready and give chase anyway, your unprepared party members are going to die. And during the suicide mission itself, you have to know your party members well enough to appoint them to needed positions-- if you pick Tali to lead the second team even though the team doesn't trust her leadership, someone's gonna die.

So the reason I use it as a golden ending example is to show how it can actually be fulfilling when done correctly, when you know that there are heavy consequences for mistakes and earning a perfect ending anyway. FE:F Revelation was an entirely different storyline that negated the existence of two other storylines in favor of something less weighted.

 

[DBPirate]

Yo, any new developments in the last 5 hours or so?

NOA’s unpinned their tweet about the delay and Yoshi and Daemon x Machina are now featured on their website so the new date might be confirmed soon or at some point today.

 

[Deleted member]

Well skeletons can be sized up to fit a model if one is simply just bigger than the other.

Yeah, but his posture would be different too; he's not simply a 'bigger Little Mac', so when you put it all together, it doesn't really seem like a simple rework like the rest of the Echoes so far.

Here, look, Sandman would need:

Larger frame (at least double the size of Little Mac)
Different posture; so the model & frame would be radically different
Different idle animation and walk cycle
Different Attack animations
Different special attacks since he's not based on Speed, Agility, or Quick movements in general
Different fighting style (mentioned above)
Different Final Smash (he doesn't need to go 'Beast mode' or whatever Mac does since he's already a beast of a fighter as it is)

 

[Deleted member]

Not necessarily. I do understand the differences between FE:F Revelation and ME2-- though I've never played Undertale, so I can't comment on that-- but ME2's suicide mission isn't as simple as keeping every party member alive in Fire Emblem.

There are specific choices that dictate the ending alongside typical gameplay. For instance, when you do Zaeed's companion mission, you have a choice between saving a building full of innocent people and helping Zaeed chase down his target. Saving people obviously is the "right" decision, but if you do so, you'll piss off Zaeed and his likelihood of dying in the suicide mission skyrockets. If you have a ton of paragon or renegade points for previous decisions, however, you can persuade him into saving the people in the building, but that dialog option only appears if you've earned it.

This happens for multiple characters in the game. Jack and Miranda nearly kill each other unless you intervene, then you have to go through multiple dialog options to "side" with one of them or force them to cooperate, all of which have different outcomes resulting in one or both of them becoming a likely casualty in the suicide mission. Garrus can be a likely casualty due to a decision you made in the last game. Thane can be a likely casualty for failing to reunite him with his son. And when your crew is abducted, if you don't give chase right then, they're all going to die. But if you're not ready and give chase anyway, your unprepared party members are going to die. And during the suicide mission itself, you have to know your party members well enough to appoint them to needed positions-- if you pick Tali to lead the second team even though the team doesn't trust her leadership, someone's gonna die.

So the reason I use it as a golden ending example is to show how it can actually be fulfilling when done correctly, when you know that there are heavy consequences for mistakes and earning a perfect ending anyway. FE:F Revelation was an entirely different storyline that negated the existence of two other storylines in favor of something less weighted.

That's what I meant. The comparison with FE is that you should have control of what happens with characters in your party. ME2 isn't just "make this one choice and you're good" or "play the game like this", it's involved and you have to be careful about what you choose and it does sound like a lot of fun.

 

[Ultinarok]

Yo, any new developments in the last 5 hours or so?

Some more 3rd party content leaked like Star Link, and the tweet about the delay for the direct was just unpinned, meaning we may have an update coming shortly. Thats it.

 

[Chrono.]

NOA’s unpinned their tweet about the delay and Yoshi and Daemon x Machina are now featured on their website so the new date might be confirmed soon or at some point today.

Oh nice.

Hope it's soon.

 

[L9999]

I'm curious about your reasoning. I can understand not liking the Gaiden/Echoes formula since it's so radically different, but this might be the first time I've ever seen someone claim Ike's games are worse than Fates. Radiant Dawn might be my favorite FE game, at least top 3. And Fates is definitely without a doubt my least favorite.

Simple, the gameplay is horrible. The genious devs thought the games would be more challenging by having large enemy density every map. As if that wasn't bad enough already the battle animations are incredibly sluggish as well, making enemy phases drag for minutes. You could go buy booze, get back and the phase isn't over yet. Tellius was the reason the skip button for enemy phase was invented. PoR has the worst difficulty in FE history in its Japanese version. Maniac mode doubles on the enemy density and they are bulkier, so the enemy phases drag even longer. Radiant Dawn takes everything wrong with PoR and makes it even worse, with gigantic maps and more bulky enemies. With the weird chapter structure a lot of units are total garbage, making it even more of a chore to play through it. This games are right there with Revelations, Gaiden/Echoes, and Genealogy of the Holy War in how abominable the gameplay is.

 

[Deleted member]

So as a villain for

King Hippo or Sandman?

gets my vote but, eh?

I'd be down with King Hippo in Smash. I wonder how'd he play? Maybe he'd be a slow, floaty version of Little Mac; like a Dedede with boxing gloves, maybe? It'd definitely be interesting to see.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Simple, the gameplay is horrible. The genious devs thought the games would be more challenging by having large enemy density every map. As if that wasn't bad enough already the battle animations are incredibly sluggish as well, making enemy phases drag for minutes. You could go buy booze, get back and the phase isn't over yet. Tellius was the reason the skip button for enemy phase was invented. PoR has the worst difficulty in FE history in its Japanese version. Maniac mode doubles on the enemy density and they are bulkier, so the enemy phases drag even longer. Radiant Dawn takes everything wrong with PoR and makes it even worse, with gigantic maps and more bulky enemies. With the weird chapter structure a lot of units are total garbage, making it even more of a chore to play through it. This games are right there with Revelations, Gaiden/Echoes, and Genealogy of the Holy War in how abominable the gameplay is.

But both of those games have perfectly fine gameplay...

 

[Pakky]

Yeah, but his posture would be different too; he's not simply a 'bigger Little Mac', so when you put it all together, it doesn't really seem like a simple rework like the rest of the Echoes so far.

Here, look, Sandman would need:

Larger frame (at least double the size of Little Mac)
Different posture; so the model & frame would be radically different
Different idle animation and walk cycle
Different Attack animations
Different special attacks since he's not based on Speed, Agility, or Quick movements in general
Different fighting style (mentioned above)
Different Final Smash (he doesn't need to go 'Beast mode' or whatever Mac does since he's already a beast of a fighter as it is)

Model size is irrelevant.

Posture is irrelevant as the rig/skeleton would allow for one to animate Sandman differently for idles and such.

That being said animation wise its really a vs situation.

The final smash is the only thing that WOULD need to be changed with new assets.

 

[DBPirate]

So does anyone think that if a character isn’t revealed in the Direct they’re not going to be in the game? A now or never sort of deal?

 

[RileyXY1]

So does anyone think that if a character isn’t revealed in the Direct they’re not going to be in the game? A now or never sort of deal?

I don't think that this is the case.

 

[Iridium]

Nothing big, but something cool.

 

[Wambo]

So does anyone think that if a character isn’t revealed in the Direct they’re not going to be in the game? A now or never sort of deal?

I hope not, because Gamexplain and a lot of others seem to think that Geno is still in the game, but won't be the next reveal.

 

[WaxPython]

I've completed all 15 FE games and I'm just going to post my FE tier list and run.

S: Shadows of Valentia; Genealogy of the Holy War; Awakening
A: New Mystery; Shadow Dragon; Radiant Dawn; Path of Radiance
B: Conquest; Thracia 776; Mystery of the Emblem; Sacred Stones
C: Binding Blade; Gaiden; Dark Dragon and Sword of Light
D: Blazing Sword; Birthright; Revelation

Why is binding blade so low?

 

[Handy Man]

So does anyone think that if a character isn’t revealed in the Direct they’re not going to be in the game? A now or never sort of deal?

Let me put it this way; if Simon wasn't revealed in the August Direct, people would still be discussing him because of Vergeben. People would also still be very vocal aboout King K. Rool and may think he could be one of the last characters shown due to his immense popularity. Heck, people may even talk about Ridley if he was never shown at E3 since he was also highly requested. As such, I feel a character that isn't announced in the Direct could still be announced in a later Direct, no exceptions. With that said, I feel a "relevant" character like Shantae or Bandana Waddle Dee would be shown in the delayed Nintendo Direct, while a character well known among Smash fans like Isaac or Geno would be more likely shown in a Smash Direct. But this is just my opinion, anything can happen and Sakurai is very unpredictable.

 

[PF9]

I feel the E10 rating somewhat compromises the game's quality a bit, because the game isn't as dark as I was expecting for the T rating I was hoping for. I mean it's still going to be a good game, just not as dark.

 

[Chrono.]

I feel the E10 rating somewhat compromises the game's quality a bit, because the game isn't as dark as I was expecting for the T rating I was hoping for. I mean it's still going to be a good game, just not as dark.

Yeah man I was really hoping for Kirby to say ****.

 

[DraginHikari]

I hope not, because Gamexplain and a lot of others seem to think that Geno is still in the game, but won't be the next reveal.

I think the idea comes down to wanting for a certain platform for the reveal if that were the case. That maybe a General Direct would be better suited for a different character is the only guess I can make.

 

[Deleted member]

So does anyone think that if a character isn’t revealed in the Direct they’re not going to be in the game? A now or never sort of deal?

Not gonna lie, I have this weird gut feeling that if the newcomer isn't a Pokemon, there isn't gonna be a Pokemon newcomer. I don't know why, I just feel like that'll be the case.

 

[Deleted member]

Even though I don't know jack **** about Fire Emblem, seeing these debates... Very much amuses me. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be watching over this with my TOTALLY REAL sandwich.

 

[DBPirate]

I hope not, because Gamexplain and a lot of others seem to think that Geno is still in the game, but won't be the next reveal.

Geno seems like more of a Smash Direct reveal due to his cult status, but that’s just me.

 

[Iridium]

Yeah man I was really hoping for Kirby to say ****.

Now I want to hear Marth or Ryu say that!

 

[Wambo]

Has anyone seen this yet? It's a funny little video to celebrate K.Rool's inclusion in Smash after all these years. Plus, there's a really cool Geno "tease" at the end.

 

[Buzzwole]

So does anyone think that if a character isn’t revealed in the Direct they’re not going to be in the game? A now or never sort of deal?

nah no way this is the last character.

we'll definitely get one last smash direct before the game launches and the we'll see our final newcomer(s)

excluding echoes, there are probably only 2-3 more characters. I'm guessing 1 in this direct and 2 in a final smash direct.

Geno will be the last character.

 

[Bowserlick]

Even though I don't know jack **** about Fire Emblem, seeing these debates... Very much amuses me. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be watching over this with my TOTALLY REAL sandwich.

View attachment 162364

Nice recreation of a Ridley VS K. Rool battle. I suppose it is all we can do until Ultimate drops.

 

[SebasSancy]

The annoucement for Civilization VI for Switch was taken down from the official page. It looks like a leak now, right?

https://nintendosoup.com/civilization-vi-switch-announcement-taken-down/

 

[Michele]

Yeah man I was really hoping for Kirby to say ****.

That wouldn't fit his personality at all, he is supposed to be cute and childish

 

[Peridorito]

If we get a Little Mac echo I want it to be Glass Joe. He's Mac but much weaker and without the power meter. The KO punch is his Final Smash instead.

But both of those games have perfectly fine gameplay...
View attachment 162363

A kpop meme huh? I see you're a man of culture as well.

 

[Metal Shop X]

The game PERMANENTLY taints your save file locking you away from the true golden ending if you do the Genocide run.
The game punishes you for playing the game. If they didn't want people to play Genocide, it shouldn't even be a thing.

Yes, the golden ending is corrupted afterward, but that's the point of the Genocide Run: to make you remember you pretty killed everyone just to see everything, the Genocide Run is a narratif tool and a commentary on 100% completionist, which is one the many tropes that Undertale play around with alongside SAVE, LV & EXP and others game elements, removing the Genocide Run would leave a black hole in the game themes, and if you don't like it, that's fine, but that's something that should be removed from Undertale (not to say every game need to have that of course).

Beside, yes, the best ending is corrupted, but if you play the game normally, you already saw what the best the game could offer, so what you would do after it? The Genocide Run is generally the last thing you will do, since Neutral Run can give you different experiences depending of your choices and nothing punish you to do before or after the golden ending. Undertale, despite all the foresight Toby put into it, is still a game after all, and no matter what you put into it, games become boring after awhile and you just move on. The pacifist/neutral run encourage to try the best the game as to offer and leave it once the player is happy, the Genocide run is in all, the utlimate run you will do if you want to try out the two hardest boss in the game and be done with the game, and as a final run, the events of it all make sad, but final ending for the game and the player.

Finally, is the punishment you get really that bad? It's not like the game is unplayable, you can play it just fine, and if you want a good ending, some neutral endings are bittersweet, but are still good to a certaint extend. I know it's a joke ending, but the Dog ending can be the note you can leave the game on, since everyone is happy somehow, or just do a really good neutral run, not everyone is 100% happy (then again, the supposed perfect ending isn't happy-happy for everyone either, *wink* goat bro *wink*, or for the snowman or mosnter kid if you are jerk to them), but the characters are still alright and hopeful for the future, so really, it's your choice in all.

And, if you don't care about cheating, you can also remove the file that corrupt the bad ending on PC.

 

[Starbound]

Never played Civilization. Are those games good?

 

[Handy Man]

Has anyone seen this yet? It's a funny little video to celebrate K.Rool's inclusion in Smash after all these years. Plus, there's a really cool Geno "tease" at the end.

As someone who has been wanting King K. Rool for years on end, this video was a hilarious tribute. I'm so excited that he was added, and this video definitely captures the struggle of waiting for his inclusion. Great stuff.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I feel the E10 rating somewhat compromises the game's quality a bit, because the game isn't as dark as I was expecting for the T rating I was hoping for. I mean it's still going to be a good game, just not as dark.

This "dark" you speak of.

How would it even?

What?

 

[DBPirate]

nah no way this is the last character.

we'll definitely get one last smash direct before the game launches and the we'll see our final newcomer(s)

excluding echoes, there are probably only 2-3 more characters. I'm guessing 1 in this direct and 2 in a final smash direct.

Geno will be the last character.

I don’t mean the last character. Just a character that should be revealed in a General Direct like this one.